Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Spiderhitch on October 14, 2020, 08:27:37 pm
Title: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Spiderhitch on October 14, 2020, 08:27:37 pm
Just bought coach and starting on list of to do's. New steering box rebuild from Redhead. New bags all around and new chassis batteries. My question is this.Coach has red or orange Koni's on it and all appear good. I believe they are adjustable. While I'm doing bags and steering box upfront would I notice any appreciable benefit to swap out Konis to the FSD's just in the front other than a lighter wallet. Trying to get all long term PM done. Fuel lines are next. Any thoughts appreciated
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: craneman on October 14, 2020, 08:33:52 pm
How many miles are on your coach? They definitely improved the ride of mine with 106,000 miles. Think of the labor to do the shocks at a later time when they are so easy with the airbags out.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 14, 2020, 08:36:10 pm
Fuel lines and redhead first, if budget allows you will notice steering Accuracy improvements and may notice ride improvements
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Spiderhitch on October 14, 2020, 08:46:14 pm
89,000 miles. Have rebuilt Redhead, Fuel lines are planned after suspension work.Thinking just might be lot easier to do shocks with bags out in front. Will do back shocks later. Do they make much difference over adjustable konis. Coach drives like a dream even with seeping steering box. Wondering if good bang for the buck.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Caflashbob on October 14, 2020, 08:49:40 pm
If on perfect roads. Don't bother. Rough roads? Immediately
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: craneman on October 14, 2020, 08:51:02 pm
The FSD's eliminated the porpoising I was having with the original red shocks.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Caflashbob on October 14, 2020, 08:53:10 pm
And if you adjust them tighter every square edge kick back hard.
What tires?
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Michelle on October 14, 2020, 08:54:02 pm
Lots and LOTS of previous discussion, albeit the most recent is likely a few years ago, on exactly this subject. You might try searching the forum (Community -> Search) for Koni FSD to get some of the prior posts/info.
Note red-orange Koni shocks are adjustable, gold FSD Koni shocks are not (thought it doesn't matter since they function a little differently than the red-orange OEMs).
Personal bias - FSD was one of the best upgrades we'd made to our 2003.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Barry & Cindy on October 14, 2020, 09:26:57 pm
Our Koni FSD story: Many years ago, we drove out after installing them and the coach rode MUCH better, and within a few miles it was the new norm and I could no longer remember how our old shocks felt. Still going good years later and happy we put them on.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: dans96u295ft on October 14, 2020, 09:55:44 pm
So mine has gold color Koni's. Are those the best
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: wolfe10 on October 14, 2020, 09:58:29 pm
What is "redhead" ? and is there age limit to fuel lines (uhhh this is probably already discussed, need to search)
Redhead (https://redheadsteeringgears.com/) is the company many on the forum recommend using for rebuilding the Shepard steering gearbox.
Yes, lots of posts on fuel lines. No hard age limit, but at 20 years, many are showing signs of deterioration and likely need to be replaced. As they age, they develop micro cracks and some start weeping fuel. The micro cracks allow air to be drawn in on the supply side and when it gets severe enough makes engine starting very difficult.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: propman on October 15, 2020, 01:41:27 pm
Redhead (https://redheadsteeringgears.com/) is the company many on the forum recommend using for rebuilding the Shepard steering gearbox.
Thank you!. "No hard age limit, but at 20 years," Do we know if this more true for the ones build in 1990s vs. 2000s. Have they used different materials or was it same throughout.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: craneman on October 15, 2020, 01:45:25 pm
No difference in materials these were used on over the road trucks long before they were used on coaches.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: propman on October 15, 2020, 04:01:21 pm
No difference in materials these were used on over the road trucks long before they were used on coaches.
When we replace them do we replace them with the same kind material and hope for 20 years service or are there better longer lasting hose available for diesel fuel lines now, compare to 90s and early 2000s?
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: craneman on October 15, 2020, 05:15:35 pm
I was speaking of the steering box. New fuel lines are much better now.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Caflashbob on October 15, 2020, 07:09:38 pm
I had my redtops readjusted twice to compensate for their wear.
Major change to replace them with the FSD's.
Plus if registered with Koni they have a lifetime warranty
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: bigdog on October 15, 2020, 07:15:29 pm
Just bought coach and starting on list of to do's. New steering box rebuild from Redhead. New bags all around and new chassis batteries. My question is this.Coach has red or orange Koni's on it and all appear good. I believe they are adjustable. While I'm doing bags and steering box upfront would I notice any appreciable benefit to swap out Konis to the FSD's just in the front other than a lighter wallet. Trying to get all long term PM done. Fuel lines are next. Any thoughts appreciated
Per the shocks. do they have any oil on them at all. This is a sign that the seal has failed. And if even one has that issue. The others are not likely far behind in failing. The labor saved by doing the shocks and bag at the same time is big. Yet if the shocks are oil free and good then no need.
On fuel lines. The difference in cost of rubber and high quality (and very long lived) Silicone lines is relatively minor. It's the labor that bites real hard. Even though we are not sure of whether our coach will be living or dead in 20 years when it will be 42 years old. We will spring for the top rated lines when we have them replaced next month.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: DayDreamer on October 15, 2020, 08:13:08 pm
On fuel lines. The difference in cost of rubber and high quality (and very long lived) Silicone lines is relatively minor. It's the labor that bites real hard. Even though we are not sure of whether our coach will be living or dead in 20 years when it will be 42 years old. We will spring for the top rated lines when we have them replaced next month.
Bigdog, when you select a fuel line, please post the details on the type you select. It is my understanding silicone hoses are a little permeable, so it is unlikely they make a silicon fuel hose like they make for coolant/heater/radiator service. I believe CARB and other environmental agencies require new fuel hose to be much less permeable and I think most compliant hoses have a barrier liner covered with a material to protect that liner. Then again, there are lots of products on the market and perhaps they have a silicone hose that is rated for diesel service.
I read other posts where Trident Barrier Lined A1-15 Fuel hose was used and read that MOT is using something which looks like PEX. Will be interesting to see what you select.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: bigdog on October 15, 2020, 08:28:57 pm
Bigdog, when you select a fuel line, please post the details on the type you select. It is my understanding silicone hoses are a little permeable, so it is unlikely they make a silicon fuel hose like they make for coolant/heater/radiator service. I believe CARB and other environmental agencies require new fuel hose to be much less permeable and I think most compliant hoses have a barrier liner covered with a material to protect that liner. Then again, there are lots of products on the market and perhaps they have a silicone hose that is rated for diesel service.
I read other posts where Trident Barrier Lined A1-15 Fuel hose was used and read that MOT is using something which looks like PEX. Will be interesting to see what you select.
When I talked to Oregon motorcoach in Eugene, Oregon. I just specified high quality fuel line. But It was my assumption that it was silicone based. I'll post up what they put in.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: MT Ted on October 15, 2020, 10:51:30 pm
On our coach, it had a red koni to the front, a yellow monroe on the back. This is on the front axle. I replaced all 4 front shocks on the front with 4 koni golds. I didnt notice any change period. The rear of mine still has the 1 red koni and 1 yellow monroe. Next spring Im putting 4 Bilsteins on the rear just to update the shocks. She is almost 30 years old and has over 260k miles on it. In my OPINION, those gold shocks are way over priced. I bet the yellow ones would feel just the same. Just my .02
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: oldguy on October 15, 2020, 11:01:12 pm
I don't know but the Monaco Dynasty I had had Bilsteins and 8 air bags the same as the Foretravel and the Foretravel has a way better ride. The only thing I can see different is the shocks but maybe there is something else.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: bdale on October 16, 2020, 10:50:50 am
My coach drove fine with the original Bilstein shocks but the FSD's did make a noticeable difference. Well worth the relatively low cost of the shocks and basically free installation at the time of airbag replacement. I can't speak directly about the adjustable Koni's but I assume the FSD's would be a similar improvement.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Olde English on October 16, 2020, 10:56:37 am
I just replaced the front shocks after buying the sooper dooper impact gun from harbor freight, fyi, the Pittsburgh impact sockets I bought are a little soft, had to pry the 1 1/2 socket off the gun stem. I put regular Monroe shocks on at $104 each, like MT Ted I can't see the need for $250 shocks on a 33 year old outfit. I can see adjustable shocks on a motorcycle or some sort of race car, but on a commercial vehicle chassis, that's a bit of a stretch. IMHO.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: bdale on October 16, 2020, 11:07:02 am
FSD's are $168, delivered, from Shockwarehouse.com
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 16, 2020, 11:08:21 am
FSD a great bang for the $$$ upgrade
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Caflashbob on October 16, 2020, 11:30:55 am
MT TED your unihome is about one ton lighter that a Unicoach. Or more. Most in the front structure and the front mounted generator.
Koni made the new design to fix the Unicoach issues.
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: propman on October 16, 2020, 01:08:23 pm
So, what does it take to replace the fuel lines, how is it done? Empty diesel fuel tank, disconnect all fuel lines from the fuel tank, remove the tank out. Trace and find the fuel lines in tight slot where it is tagged along with other things, such as electrical cables, get it free, go to one end, attach a new line to each line and pull through, tag it back in, close up the tight slot and tidy up the lines and all the other cables disturbed then reconnect each end to engine, aqua hot and the fuel tank? What am I missing? Labor, 16 hours? +/- $1600-2000 ? plus material?
Thank you
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: Tommy D on October 16, 2020, 01:26:30 pm
So, what does it take to replace the fuel lines, how is it done? Empty diesel fuel tank, disconnect all fuel lines from the fuel tank, remove the tank out. Trace and find the fuel lines in tight slot where it is tagged along with other things, such as electrical cables, get it free, go to one end, attach a new line to each line and pull through, tag it back in, close up the tight slot and tidy up the lines and all the other cables disturbed then reconnect each end to engine, aqua hot and the fuel tank? What am I missing? Labor, 16 hours? +/- $1600-2000 ? plus material?
Thank you
A bunch using the search, here is one.
Fuel hose replacement post (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35249.msg390021#msg390021)
Title: Re: Thoughts on replacing Koni with Koni FSD
Post by: bigdog on October 16, 2020, 05:04:19 pm
So, what does it take to replace the fuel lines, how is it done? Empty diesel fuel tank, disconnect all fuel lines from the fuel tank, remove the tank out. Trace and find the fuel lines in tight slot where it is tagged along with other things, such as electrical cables, get it free, go to one end, attach a new line to each line and pull through, tag it back in, close up the tight slot and tidy up the lines and all the other cables disturbed then reconnect each end to engine, aqua hot and the fuel tank? What am I missing? Labor, 16 hours? +/- $1600-2000 ? plus material?
Thank you
The big bugaboo for DIY is having a place to do it and controlling that messy smelly diesel. By all accounts from those that have done it, it can be a messy job.
I would have to do mine at the curb on a neighborhood street. No bueno says the city ordinance.