We are at Oregon motorcoach center. Brought the coach in on Nov 11th to have the fuel lines replaced & Annual AH service.
Only bugaboo is that they couldn't get the fuel lines purged or the AH service completed before the weekend. So, a bit of tarmac camping till Monday.
I'll try starting the coach every once in a while over the weekend.
Tech showed me the old lines. Most of the length didn't look bad. But all the hose to connector interfaces had a lot of cracks. He said it was a good move to replace them.
Sure fire way to purge new fuel lines is by SLIGHTLY pressurizing the fuel tank (like 2-5 PSI-- you hand over the fill with air nozzle in your hand). Have someone else open the secondary fuel filter OUT bleed and do this until all the air bubbles are gone.
Much easier on the starter!
I used a small drill motor pump, with garden hose fitting's, pumped right up to filter. Coach fired right off, kept running, stumbled once, kept running.
Chris
Doesn't your coach have the bleed switch next to the engine stop and start buttons in the engine bay? I just ran the bleed switch several times and bleed air out then started right up.
Scott
DSD, yes it does. Not sure if it was or wasn't working. I saw some light come at that panel. I saw them remove the fuel filter once (I wasn't out there all day trying to watch)
I also smelled ether. Which worried me as I don't really like using that stuff.
Brett, I'm not going to go at the starter like a mad man. Just a few times over the weekend.
I've used a lot of ether to start cold engines but never to help bleed an engine. Don't you have an electric fuel pump for bleeding as
Scott suggested. When I said I used lots of ether, it's cause I have had to start a lot of engines in freezing weather and I only used
a little each time.
On my coach you can hear it run (Bleed pump) and see fuel pass thru the stock clear filter. I would avoid ether however I think your coach was equipped with it, my is. White canister forward of the right rear taillight. Bubba with Mayfield and sons truck service was using Napa contact cleaner as a alternate starting fluid. None of the ether side effects and ran nicely on it when I had my failed ECM. Probably worthless for cold weather starting. I am not advising to use, just that he did and I would also on my own equipment. I probably should read up on how we are supposed to use ether for cold weather conditions, no clue.
Scott
dsd, as we are going nowhere this weekend. I'll monkey with that bleed pump panel.
I saw the tech messing around with it. But I was watching from the garage door some 20 feet away. So I'm not sure and didn't hear them say they were having issues.
As for the ether. It works, but a lot of folks tend to do the normal human thing of- if a little works, more will work better.
What shocked me was the fact that after buying this coach 5 years ago and never having touched the ether button. It actually still had ether in it.
Scott with the Aqua-hot mostly we don't need to use the ether and if you are starting a cold engine let the engine turn over a
couple of time and then just touch the ether button for a second and it should fire. Why I let the engine turn over a couple of
times is with the electronic engine the ECU won't give the engine fuel until until then.
I figured it was about like that but will read to see if isTemperature locked out Or active all the time. Just curious on correct operation. Also need to figure out if the bottle needs replacement, I'm sure it probably does.
Scott
Scott, it has temperature lock out. I found out after buying a new cyl. and finding out the one on the coach was still good. I found the lockout sensor, bypassed it, unhooked the hose and had my son activate it, and ether came out the hose. Put the new canister in the shop and still haven't needed to use the bottle on the coach. The night before we leave I send the Aqua Hot through the engine. We just returned from Redmond Or. and it was 15 deg. the night before we left. Started right up.
There are some important warnings on the forum regarding using the ether option in most Foretravels, particularly related to the intake manifold heater, IIRC. Many have disconnected the ether unit as a smart precaution.
Ether start built into the coach (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=23326.msg180775#msg180775)
On our 1998, the ether canister felt about half full when I shook it. I took it out to inspect for rust - touched up some spots and reinstalled. Loosen the big hose clamp and unscrew the canister.
We are not likely to use it. We normally have the time to use the aqua hot or block heater. We avoid temperatures much below freezing.
Just out of curiosity, in freezing cold weather, instead of ether, couldn't one start the generator and then run the block heater for an hour if no ether is desired or available?
Just curious.
I took the ether can out of our coach and use the generator and block heater if we need to start in cold weather. If we are plugged into shore power, even better!!
I use the Aqua-hot mostly and have a block heater that I have used. I find using the Aqua-hot for an hour to a couple of hours the engine will start no problem. I have only used the ether once at home. Turned the engine over, it didn't start, tried again touched the
ether button and the engine fired up. I like have the ether just for a back up and wouldn't use on a engine that is warm. If the coach
doesn't come with a system don't use ether as it probably comes with some kind of heater which will cause an explosion.
DO NOT USE ETHER ON THE GENERATOR, it has glow plugs and when my gen won't start in really cold weather I cycle the glow
plugs
Running the block heater for an hour with the thermostat housing "block heater" does nothing in cold weather on a 6V-92TA. Detroit owners need to move the heater to the correct location or install a remote heater like some have done. For years, Detroits came with flip up cap or button on the dash. RV owners are not to be trusted to use ether correctly and engine damage will occur if used on a warm engine.
The heated screen on a Cummins may cause the ether to explode.
At high altitude and in the teens, I've had to use ether on both the generator and the main engine. Ether does work on glow plug engines.
Pierce
Two quick stories on fuel lines and ether. I replaced all my fuel lines 2 years ago with minimal difficulty. I had to empty the fuel tank in order to slide it out and remove the fuel lines. One thing to note is the plug on the bottom of the tank that fits in a recessed hole in the floor. In order to get the tank out I had to lift it about 1/2-3/4". Then I had to cut one of the return fittings off the top of the tank as it would not clear the opening with the tank being lifted.
After replacing all the lines, for priming I used a hand diaphragm pump (think hand bilge pump) for the engine fuel lines 2-3 pumps and the fuel was at the filters. For the AH I used the same drill pump that I drained the tank with. I had problems getting the fuel to pull through the line for the generator using the drill pump. After about 20 minutes of running the drill pump I figured the pump was worn out and went off to do something else. When I came back 15 minutes later the fuel was flowing freely all over the ground (probably 15-20 gallons). Apparently I started a siphon just before I stopped with the drill pump and decided to walk away. Had my own Exxon Valdez experience.
Ether and air in the lines. You can dump a whole can of ether into the system while your trying to start (just saying, I know you wouldn't), but if you have air in the lines/filter it will not continue to run. I ran a Cummins 4Bt out of fuel years back, promptly refueled and topped off the fuel filter. It would not start, after several hours I got it to run with WD40 through the intake, went through a whole can thinking it would continue to run on its own at some point, it didn't. Carefully removed the fuel filter again for the "nth" time and noticed a small bubble of air.I removed the bubble with my finger, replaced the filter and the motor fired up on the turn of the key.
Also, you can substitute WD40 or some silicone sprays for starting fluid if you feel the need to use them, Personally starting fluid should only be used on that POS lawn mower that never starts and that your hoping to replace next year.
After changing the lines on coach I too had problems getting fuel to feed thru the main line and after messing around filling the filters couple of times I pulled the tank again and found the main line was kinked so after straightening that and replacing tank all whent well and no more issues.
Johnh
You don't have to go to the glow position on the generator to get the electric pump to run. Just a small jumper from a 12V battery will make the pump run and easily bring fuel from the tank. It really helps to open the valve on the return line to let the fuel make the round trip and get rid of all bubbles.
The same with the main engine. You can't pressurize the fuel tank without having the secondary filter loose so the air can escape. Otherwise, nothing happens.
Pierce
I would not use ether on a glow plug engine unless I had disconnected the glow plugs. If you use ether the ether will hit the glow
plugs and fire before top dead center. Just google ( using ether on a glow plug engine) you will get your answer.
Well, it's the end of our sixth day at OMC.
So, they have been unable to clear the air from the fuel lines. After SIX HOURS of labor @ $125/hr trying to purge the lines. They come and tell me that for some reason someone in the past removed the the first fuel filter block with the primer pump and replaced it with a unit that doesn't have a primer/purge pump. ????WTF over.
Even more puzzling and quite maddening was the fact that they saw this when hooking up the new fuel lines at the primary filter and didn't immediately stop and suggest a quick and easy swap to a filter with the pump. Instead they only told me that a new filter/primer pump should be installed after expending $750 of my money on a futile exercise and running my starter way too much.
WOW! Like them Texans say, "that ain't rite"
I had mixed results at OMC..... lots of $$$ spent on leveling system that MOT fixed in under two hours....
but had some good service there too....
WTF over is right. After 20 minutes you'd think they would check to see if fuel was being delivered to the filters, at some point you have to start "cracking" lines to see where the fuel isn't, and go from there.
WTF
Jerry,
Sorry about your bad experience, who is OMC so I can make sure I steer clear. WTF indeed.
It sounds like they have the issue diagnoised now, and you are committed to letting them finish as is probably the best choice.
Should you later decide to get a second repair shop to complete the repair, if Oregon Motorcoach diagnosis is not correct, you might also check with Premier RV (https://www.premierrvservices.com) which is nearby in Junction City. From memory I seem to remember you or another forum member having a positive service experience with them on fixing an entry door issue by adjusting the door and lock.
I am so sorry for your problem. Knowing the risks on any repair, I wanted to follow up on your line replacement. I hope once this issue is resolved, they give you some relief on that $650 essentially diagnostic time expense.
When I started to have fuel line issues in 2017 from loss of prime due to line failure, mis diagnosed by another quality shop caused me to unnecessarily spend $1,500 for their error. They recommended replacing the injection pump to solve my issue. Luckily I knew of a quality injection pump rebuilder in Portland, they tested the pump and returned it to me saying it performed perfectly all the way thru the power curve. I ended up finding the cracked, failed fuel line on my own.
All shops in the area were too busy to replace my fuel lines, they all were booked up 6-8 weeks, the fall of 2017, so I tackled the repair on my own. I replaced the supply and return lines by myself in less than 20 hrs time which curred all my issues. The majority of that time was spent chasing parts and tools, including getting new fuel line and swedged couplings.
T-Man YEP!!!
Tommy D, that would be Oregon Motorcoach in Eugene.
Thing is. The prior owner had OMC rip out the carpet and install ceramic tile as well as redoing the front to accept a 32" tv. The tile and cabinet job is top notch. But that was in 2011-2012.
I don't question the fuel line R&R. The OEM lines were sent out to a shop that specializes in lines to be replicated to OEM spec with high quality fuel hose.
My main complaint was that there was no way they could have missed the fact that the primary filter didn't have a purge/prime pump and ran up the labor charges when they should have at the minimum stopped and suggested that at least a manual pump be installed or a replacement electric one connected to the existing purge panel by the remote start.
Jack Lewis, given that I don't have a place to pull a fuel tank. And I would have likely not discovered the lack of a prime/purge pump. I would have been up the creek for sure.
However, This experienced and high end shop should have known better.
Sorry for your problem Jerry.
DW is always complaining about incompetent work on our coach and gets involved in labor billing on every project. She is always getting all maintenance bills reduced to zero. I haven't made a penny working on my coach. She would never tolerate such billing.
All jobs should have a not to exceed cap for work agreed apron. Good techs will make good money. Incompetent techs will learn or move on. You have already paid for the job, not the learning of poor techs. YES this should of been brought to your attention during installation. However how was your coach serviced for fuel filter changes in the past without a pump. You did drive it there. There is more to this story than we are privy too. If they had never done this job before then you shouldn't be paying for a premium installation and you both may share the learning cost. This is very disappointing. Sorry your having to deal with it
Scott
I agree with you 100%. Please know I never meant for you to replace the fuel lines yourself. Every ones situation is different. I had just retired, had the time, the place, and desire to compleat. That has all changed, given the same situation now, I would have to wait the 6-8 weeks and pay to have it done.
I found the following YouTube videos on the M11 and thought you might want to watch, all deal with a no start issue on your M14. Hopefully your shop has properly diagnosed the issue, and it will be fixed without the need of these 3 videos.
https://youtu.be/j1c0htO3pHc
https://youtu.be/HkUj8-2wZws
https://youtu.be/oCxojfhkYBk
dsd, big difference between a filter change and 30+ft of new very empty fuel lines. The shop I use in Walla Walla for oil changes hasn't had an issue as far as I know. They haven't said any thing.
While I have worked on cars. I have never wrenched on a diesel. So I was unaware that my rig was missing that pump.
And to be honest. After 1,500,000 big rig miles and 5 yrs of coach ownership. I have never needed to prime an engine.
I would think the trouble spot is at the hump over the bulkhead. At least it is my understanding from the forum that the lines have to go over that and then go down from there. (Worst case for purging air)
After doing several fuel line replacements, they need to check to see if they kinked the supply line when they shoved the tank back in. This will happen were the line goes through the bulkhead. Have they tried to pull a vacuum on the engine supply fuel line to see if they are getting fuel back to the filter?
Mike
Mike, I don't know. I did see them with an air hose and the fuel cap off. This was on Monday near closing time.
All I'm sure of is that they burned through 6 hours of labor time trying to purge before they told me that there was no purge pump. And even then, they made no effort to suggest that one be installed.
It was me that told them on Tuesday morning to stop wasting my labor $$$ and get a purge pump installed.
Should you give up on the shop you are at, I've used the following mobile repair shop with all positive results. I've also recommended a forum member to them that was stuck along the hwy in Eugene, Oregon with a non start issue posted on the forum. The forum member thanked me for their service. They do mobile hd truck repair and are out of Creswell, Oregon.
Pro Mobile Service & Repair, LLC (https://m.facebook.com/promobileservicenrepair/)
Just for others to know, I blew air through my lines, after the tank was back in, just to make sure this didn't happen.
Sorry Big Dog for all the drama's
Chris
When I did mine I chased a prime issue. Ended up being a loose fitting, that I didn't tighten. Moral of the story check em all that you can get to
Very interesting topic.
Has anyone changed the fuel lines on a 2003 U320 (or similar vintage) proactively without having any symptoms ?
Regards
Klaus
Klaus,
Yes, at 17 years old, many proactively (think preventive maintenance) replace them at their convenience rather than have a side-of-the-road failure.
And, starving a diesel fuel injection system often leads to injection system component failure.
Start by looking at where the fuel line goes over the fitting into the primary fuel filter. See cracks-- time to replace.
Klaus, even though I'm having some issues because of the hose change. I had no issues prior. This was a 100% preventive measure for our 22 year old coach.
thing is. I'm in a safe spot and plugged into a 50amp pedestal.
As others have posted. The first clue is hard starting even when the engine is warm and esp hard when cold after sitting. The second is a total engine shut down on the road with no restart.
Yes Most rubber products are at the end of there life at 20 years since being built. I'd much rather work at home and be able to walk away and go back the next day to work on. Being stuck on the side of the road or in the mud when preventable is well worth changing out the things I can at home. Create the good luck for your coach.
Scott
Jerry, take a picture please of the primary filter block. I still think it is or was a kinked hose on top of tank as easy to do
Johnh
I had the same problem a kinked line after replacing the lines kinked it reinstalling the tank after two days of trying to bleed it removed the tank cover and there it was
John H. I'll shine a light on those hoses in the morning. It's dark and raining buckets in Eugene.
I have a priming filter block coming. But has to come from the East coast. 😱 And will be here Friday.
An easy test on a kinked fuel line is to get someone else to put their mouth on the one end of the fuel hose and blow you should hear air bubbles in the tank, if there's fuel in it. When I replaced my lines I connected a hand diaphragm pump, boat bilge pump, to the one end and with about 3 strokes I had a nice stream of fuel at the filters. Pretty much started on the first try.
Also I get why people take RV's to a shop to get fixed but I've always been leery of an RV shop doing diesel work. Do diesel mechanics work at RV shops, asking for a friend? I'm fortunate enough that I have an very good diesel mechanic that also works on RVs, motors, transmission and drive train only.
Mobious, I probably wouldn't consider fuel lines as true diesel work.
Although. No way would I let them do an overhead.
Would putting a spring shield or slipping pex pipe over fuel line in the effected area be worthy of the kink issue. Pex is reluctant to kink. No rust like a spring.
Why can't metal pipe of proper size be used for straight fuel run?
Could an inspection port be placed inside coach above fuel fitting point?
Think like marine water tight inspection/access hatch flush mounted.
What model number filter / primer pumps are being considered?
I have mightie mite vacuum pump. That should prime fuel lines as its used to test fuel pressure. Its manual.
What model # electric pump works well moving diesel fuel?
Just some ideas and questions
John H. I was able to snap a photo of one of the connectors that were used on the new line. This is from the passenger side. All the lines I could see had very long radius turns. No kinks.
This made sound stupid but hopefully they put the fuel back in the tank.
Oldguy, the only stupid question is the one not asked. And yes. They put my fuel back in.👍
Jerry, one other consideration if they connected the hoses wrong at the top of the tank, switched feed for return it won't pick up any fuel as the feed has a tube that extends inside the tank and the return does not.
Different size fittings and hose. It is a very tight fit on a 320 above the tank. I used a 4 foot shoe horn basically to get lines not kinked. I did kink the generator line but resolve before it was a problem. But easy to verify prior to being wetted with fuel. Not the time to rush thru installation. I actually preferred not having help.
Scott
Thanks for all the suggestions.
As I did hire this out, there is only so much I can do in shadowing them while they work.
The coach was in a bay uninhabitable during the actual fuel line R&R last Thursday/Friday. So we were unable to actually witness the event as we were in a hotel Wednesday till Friday noon.
The coach hasn't been touched since Monday. And even then was only only worked on for 1-1.5 hrs.
Tuesday morning I put a stop to the work and told them to get and install a priming fuel filter block.
The new filter block will be here tomorrow. So we will see how that goes.
Here is a photo of the current #1 filter block. Just a basic in/filter/out setup. Sorry but the photo was unable to be rotated.
Thx for picture Jerry. I am not sure I like those fittings as they sure restrict the flow of fuel. Did they use 5/8" id hose or 1/2"?.Johnh
John H.
they took all the OEM lines to the hose maker as examples of what & how much they needed. So they are fine.
Jerry that picture shows a different hose than in post #50 and it looks old? I was assuming that they changed the fuel lines, which would include to fuel cooler and between filter and engine. Also between tank and generator and Aquahot including the Aquahot remote filter if installed in the generator cooling area and all return hoses?
Scott
They reused the old protective cover on the new hose.
The picture in post 50 was just to show what connectors were used as it was brought up somewhere that I should make sure that they didn't use hose clamps.
I have no idea if the hose in post 50 is to the engine or from the engine. The connector and the hose look to be high quality. And I'm good with that.
I appreciate all the help. But I'm getting a complex.
Tommy D and I know all about kinked fuel lines.
Looks like they used the equivalent of the original Aeroquipt lines, hydraulic lines with braided cover, probably at least single wire. Doesn't seem likely these would get kinked. High quality lines for sure, plenty stiff.
After replacing the banjo bolt return line on the engine, and noting it is at max 1/4" really wonder about the necessity of these 5/8 lines?
Chuck P, thank you for that. I needed to hear a positive comment.
I was only miffed about the shop expending so many hours doing the shade tree prime before telling me I had no prime pump.
Chuck, I am not an engineer but doesn't fluids kind of follow electrical. longer runs need larger sizes?
Update, Tech just got through installing the pictured priming fuel filter.
Engine fired up after 3-4 seconds of cranking. Going to set it on high idle for a while then shut it down for a bit and start it again.
Great news. So glad to hear they got it started
Scott
Most definitely dsd.
Now to have a nice chat with the service manager seeking some relief for the multiple hours wasted doing the back yard style air purge.
Yes, that's true, though on the return line the banjo bolt actually acts as a restrictor to keep fuel pressure up to intake of injector pump. Seems likely that some additional restriction in return line would have little effect, and possibly a positive effect as banjo spring weakens over time.
I do like the filter minder they installed. I too installed on my coach. They are to be installed after the filter to show If the engine pump is sucking against a plugged filter. Hard to tell that it past the filter in your picture. I swear looking at my fuel minder it has fuel in the indicator section. Still seams to work okay. Doesn't leak. After you make a extended full power pull I marked on the indicator as my base line indication. It's always about halfway thru the range after a hard pull. I've replaced the filter with no change in indication on the minder. If you go to
Steel (https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/steel.html)
They have the correct DOT line fitting if you ever want to change out what they installed on your fuel filter. Last ones I bought were under two dollars each and you will be able to have a factory looking installation. So glad this is almost behind you. Don't let them beat you up much.
Scott
dsd, I like the idea of a filter minder. No reason to toss a filter that is still filtering or change out early should goo get into the filter.
As for where the filter minder sits in the circuit, I have no idea. But I will trust that the folks at Parker/Racor know what they are doing.
Also, when this filter assembly was ordered from a Freightliner dealer. The dealer wanted my engine model/serial number. I would assume that it was to ensure that the proper filtration/flow rate system was ordered.
I have started the engine several times now, and all is well.
Jogged my memory - are you saying someone removed or modified the Racor system on your coach at some time in the past?
Racor and Winn fuel filters and housing (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=17561.0)
Racor 790R30 primary filter (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36413.msg346629#msg346629)
In your picture in reply #64 the fitting on the right should be the line to the engine and the hose on the left should be the pickup in regards for the minder to work correctly. If it's on the pickup/in side it will measure pickup restriction which should always be low. If it's on the out/engine side it reads filter restrictions Which is what your seeking with the minder to tell if it's plugged. Housing will have a in and out arrow. Out to engine. In from pickup/fuel tank
Scott
Wishing you the best BigDog in your quest for relief! We will be looking at changing our fuel lines out as well, sooner than later. Already had an issue with the Aqua Hot lines and a huge shout out to Rudy for that diagnosis! It was sucking air around the cracks at the fittings. Will have to address this issue when we get back to Rudy in Baytown, but for now, it is working. I ordered and received a new Racor that I will install this week in the Aqua Hot area instead of the long run up in the generator blower area.
Most Racor filter blocks have four ports so they can be configured either right or left intake, unused ports are field plugged.
Michelle, When I first took the coach into my local truck shop for an oil change. They showed me where the primary filter 'had' been and the two fuel lines that went in and out of the filter were connected. My first oil change was done in Mt. Vernon, Wa. When I had a failure of the shift pad. This was the trip to pick up our new to us coach. Sad that the Freightliner dealer in Mt. Vernon that has many shops in the PNW didn't bother to tell me that i didn't have a primary filter.
So yes, someone had not only bypassed the primary filter. They even removed it. So I had no idea it was missing until my local shop pointed out I had no primary fuel filter.
So I of course told them to install one. As I didn't know any better to ask for a priming pump. They put on a plain filter block.
And to be honest. It hasn't presented any issues for the years it has been there. That is, until the mass purge/prime needed due to the fuel hose change.
Joe, to answer your comment on air getting in thru cracks on fuel lines at fittings why not do what I did to them many years ago when this issue was first mentioned. I had cut a hole in the floor right above the tank and were pickup fuel lines are just to see wether I was going to have a problem with this issue too. I did find some small fine cracks but not causing an issue then, so, to make sure it was not going to happen I put some good polyurethane caulking on the hose and spread it around the hose to "fill" the cracks and seal them from allowing air to enter. Fast track to a couple of months ago when I decided to replace them finally and noticed that the cracks had actually got a bit wider "but the caulk was still in perfect condition and had expanded with the crack and still sealing. So the motto here is "if you can reach any problem lines just smother caulk around them and let it set and you will be able to put off the obvious till it suits you".
It worked for me by the looks of it. Anyway it is a simple job to do and very little or no cost fix.
JohnH
Final update,
the shop (Oregon Motorcoach) voluntarily removed the labor charges from the fuel line air purge and just charged the labor for the fabrication of a bracket and installation of the priming fuel filter block.
It was still more costly than I had anticipated. (Isn't that always the case?)
But there was no way for me to have done a DIY on the fuel lines. So we are good with that.
In the end. We will be pushing up Daisies before the fuel lines will need redoing. Heck, in 20 years this coach will be pushing up Daisies.😁
I'm willing to bet the coach will still be around in twenty years. Make a great house for some one. Diesel will cost too much to drive. That is not good.
Scott
We purchased our U320 a little over 2 years ago. It checked out perfectly, so said the commercial airline pilot we purchased it from.
We found that after the RV sat a few days, it would fire up and die after a few seconds. Sometimes, it would go ahead and fire after staying on the starter longer than desired. We also discovered a lot more issues the airline pilot failed to disclose. Like the AH and a parasitic draw, and the many other nagging issues that comes with age.
So it goes to the RV shop. I had called to discuss with the Service Writer what I was finding, we schedule a time so that it could "get right in and out". After finally getting the RV back and a list of things they were not capable of repairing, it goes to a Truck & RV repair shop. After a couple of more months, we get it back to find, most of what we had paid for at both shops were not done well if at all.
One of the "repairs" was to replace the fuel filter primary priming unit with a pass through, similar to your experience. That part is now on the shelf and the proper priming filter housing was installed. I can certainly understand BigDogs pain.
It seems to be easy to find a shop willing to not do the right thing. I've paid for several lessons and ouch.
bkw
BKW,
When you purchase a used coach, don't expect the PO to be able to disclose everything. Air in the line is rarely a sudden development and usually happens over time as the components age. The hard starting may have just started to show itself or the PO may have just gotten used to it. The front door of our house sticks when it rains but I would never think to disclose that to anyone. Do a thorough inspection but then expect to have to fix or replace some items when you purchase a used coach.
Pierce
BKW,
You might consider starting a new topic about your coach issues. Many knowledgeable & experienced folks will be along shortly to help you out with sage advice and some cold hard truth about the cost of feeding our glamping habit.
It does get better once you fix the stuff that the prior owner neglected. And these are old machines. They are very well built. But they are still old man made complex machines subject to wearing out.
Big Dog, I'm glad your back on the road.
Green99, we are having lunch next to Mt. Shasta. Stopping early in Redding to have a quiet night and a bit of a reset.