Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: GleamB on November 30, 2020, 07:43:39 am
Title: No generator
Post by: GleamB on November 30, 2020, 07:43:39 am
Day before yesterday, early morning, ran low on battery with hardly any draw on inverter. Generator was set to "ato" and came on, like it should. This morning, no ac power. Auto generator DIDN'T come on. Pressed gen start.... NOTHING! May not be related, but the heat doesn't seem to be blowing. Both the generator and Aqua Hot have been recently serviced, and both were working fine. We go into Mexico this morning, so this isn't a great way to start our big adventure. Any ideas? I haven't checked the generator yet....still dark outside....it's EARLY.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on November 30, 2020, 08:01:22 am
This morning, no ac power. Auto generator DIDN'T come on. Pressed gen start.... NOTHING!
No AC power means no inverter means house batteries are flat.
No generator auto start means whichever battery bank starts your generator is flat. I don't know on your coach which bank that is...
Did you try the boost switch to get the generator started?
Will the big engine start?
If both battery banks are flat, you'll need to get some charge into the chassis batteries. Jumper cables off your tow car?
After you get one of the engines started, you can worry about figuring out what is draining the batteries.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: amos.harrison on November 30, 2020, 08:04:47 am
MAJOR battery issues. You've probably permanently damaged both coach and chassis batteries. The coach wasn't plugged in to shore power, right?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Tim Fiedler on November 30, 2020, 09:53:16 am
Awuahot won't run burner if voltage too low, yes it is related I suspect
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on November 30, 2020, 10:15:49 am
Missing an IMPORTANT ITEM THe Magnum is set to start the generator at 12.2 v It ALWAYS has for the 5 years I have owned the coach. It DIDN'T last night. I need to know WHY NOT. thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on November 30, 2020, 10:21:12 am
The Magnum is set to start the generator at 12.2 v
I assume the 12.2 volts is measured at the coach battery bank.
Does your generator start off the coach battery bank or the chassis battery bank?
If the battery bank that starts the generator is dead, then (obviously) the generator will not start.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 30, 2020, 10:27:05 am
Try to start with boost switch on.
Start main engine and charge both banks until generator will start.
If both banks dead, jump with car for at least ten minutes with good sized jumper cables, no $10 cables as they will take a couple of hours.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: turbojack on November 30, 2020, 12:01:13 pm
If having a large draw or battery in bad shape , battery may be too low already at 12.2 to get generator started
Other guess is generator has a problem
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: oldguy on November 30, 2020, 12:31:48 pm
First get your batteries up and then start the generator, if it starts you know the generator wasn't the problem. Then lower your batteries to 12.2 and see if the magnum will start the generator. I haven't set up my Magnum to start my batteries so I don't know how that works. I think I would suspect your batteries as you should be able to go all night on the batteries or maybe you have a bigger draw on the inverter.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: wolfe10 on November 30, 2020, 12:43:53 pm
As already pointed out your issue depends on how your coach is wired.
In most cases, the gen auto-start is tied to HOUSE battery bank voltage.
If your generator starts from the house bank, yes, when voltage hit 12.2 or whatever your gen start voltage you have programmed in there should have been enough battery capacity to start the generator (yes, ASSUMING the batteries are not shot).
If your generator starts off the chassis batteries and they are dead, your symptoms make sense.
I would start by checking voltage at both battery banks. Then compare those two readings with voltage at the generator. Should tell you instantly which battery bank starts the generator.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on November 30, 2020, 01:09:35 pm
Or, Glenn could just look at his wiring diagram, which would clearly indicate which battery bank starts the generator.
At least my wiring diagram does...
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on November 30, 2020, 05:49:06 pm
OK Finally stopped halfway to Mazatlan. The coach fired up fine. I installed a Victron monitor, this summer, on my 7 year old Lifelines. We have been on the road for over six hours. My Victron says 93%soc and12.86 voltage. I opened the generator door and heard a muffled "ticking" sound. I hit the button and noise stopped. I went inside and hit the gen button. Same ticking sound. The gen was just serviced by Mr. Keith at MOT three weeks ago. I'm all ears. At a truck stop for the night without a generator. My have to run the engine all night??
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Tim Fiedler on November 30, 2020, 06:09:39 pm
Call MOT tech support
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: stevec22 on November 30, 2020, 06:15:26 pm
The ticking sound may be your fuel pump. The little silver box in the front with fuel hoses in and out.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 30, 2020, 06:25:55 pm
I would NOT run the Cummings all night.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on November 30, 2020, 10:46:03 pm
Why not run it if necessary? It's not going to hurt it.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 01, 2020, 12:34:45 am
It's against the recommendation of all diesel manufactures to idle your diesel for extended periods, may also be against state or local laws, may leak exhaust into the bedroom with 256 compounds, some carcinogenic.
Indeed, the ticking sound has a very good chance of being your fuel pump. You should be able to listen and find it.
You need help in the morning. Pull the battery cables off if necessary to stop the discharge.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: oldguy on December 01, 2020, 12:38:25 am
I go all night without a generator in the winter. I dry camp all winter skiing and run my generator about 3 to 4 hours in the evening and 1 hour in the morning. I always shut off the inverter in the winter as it uses battery and so do the 2 transfer switches. If you think you need to run the M11 all night don't leave it at idle, rev it up to at least 1000 RPM. The clicking is the fuel pump working. Somewhere there should be a timer and probably a relay to turn the engine over.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 01, 2020, 07:11:50 am
Twice mentioned the fuel pump. IF I locate it, then what? Why didn't the generator kick on like it always has done when on auto. This thread isn't about idling the engine. It is about a generator
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 01, 2020, 07:23:45 am
Glenn,
Sounds like you have the rely that controls the start function on the ES52 module stuck/failed. There are 2 relays one is for the generator start the other is to run the fuel pump. With your description the fuel pump relay must be working. If you pull the 2 relays and swap them out the generator may try to start but won't run due to the bad relay is on the fuel pump. With the fuel pump running this leads me to think you are getting a start signal from the BCM 12 Auto Generator Start Module (or what ever one you have)
I recently posted a pic. of the ES 52 module and will get you a link as to what you are looking for. The ES 52 should be hid in the control box at the generator. Some are still mounted on the box on top of the generator itself some have been moved to a separate box by the remote fan. Depending on which generator you have and which quiet box will depend on where the ES 52 is hid. Here is what you are looking for. Generator intermitten self shut down (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41183.msg409637#msg409637)
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 01, 2020, 08:19:12 am
Mike, Thanks. But I am confused. What am I trying to do? Get new relays? Need more instruction of how to proceed when we get to our RV Park later, today.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John44 on December 01, 2020, 08:37:53 am
First thing I would do right after you stop is check with a volt meter all your batterys and make sure they are fully charged,before you shut the engine off make sure the alternator is charging all batteries,then troubleshoot the rest.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: wolfe10 on December 01, 2020, 09:01:06 am
And, sometimes you can affect a temporary "repair" of a relay by a light, sharp rap on it. Certainly not a cure if the coil is bad, but if points are stuck it may temporarily free them up.
And, absolutely if near an auto parts house by 2 spare relays-- they are not expensive.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: dsd on December 01, 2020, 10:04:13 am
Sounds like you have the rely that controls the start function on the ES52 module stuck/failed. There are 2 relays one is for the generator start the other is to run the fuel pump. With your description the fuel pump relay must be working. If you pull the 2 relays and swap them out the generator may try to start but won't run due to the bad relay is on the fuel pump.
Mike
Arrived yesterday Lot of (5) NEW Song Chuan 871-1C-C-R1 Mini Relay SPDT 5-prong 12V 20/35A... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-5-NEW-Song-Chuan-871-1C-C-R1-Mini-Relay-SPDT-5-prong-12V-20-35A-R20GK/264248485799?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) Five relays for $22 Two for the spare parts kit in coach Three for the shelve at home. Thank you Mike for the insight to stock up on needed spares. Since I have them may never need. 👍👍 Scott
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 01, 2020, 12:14:48 pm
But I am confused. What am I trying to do? Get new relays?
All you are trying to do is troubleshoot to see if one of those relays is bad. If you can determine that one is faulty then you will need a replacement. Can you post a pic. of your generator?
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 01, 2020, 12:36:35 pm
Glenn, Mouser Electronics in Mansfield Texas south east of Fort Worth has them. Look online for that company and call them to see if you can get a couple fast if they prove to be problem. I am getting mine from them. Just a thought. JohnH
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 01, 2020, 12:45:42 pm
Twig, last post from him memtioned they had not crossed border yet. Anyway there are 3 electronic stores in Mazatlan that may have them , if not he could have them couriered. I found an RCA Electronics store in Guaymas that was heaven for electronic parts so maybe one of those in Maz old town area can help. I have had great service getting stuff sent from Canada to San Carlos with DHL in a few days. JohnH
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John44 on December 01, 2020, 01:05:14 pm
Do we know the clicking is not the starter?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 01, 2020, 10:02:44 pm
OK Update. We are at our RV PARK. There are about seven units on our side, that normally would have 50 ish. No Canadians. Businesses are folding up here because no one is here. All to ourselves. I am on land line now. Still can't start the Genny. My Victron reads 92 SOC with 12.9 V. I will let it charge overnight, and try again. We think the clicking is the fuel pump. I have had no difficulty starting my coach these past two days. I will post a picture, but need to read up on troubleshooting the Kubota. The house batteries are old, bought in 2013. I was going to replace them, this past summer, but got lost in what to replace the Lifelines with. Roger spent a good amount of time talking me thru some ideas. Probably should have replaced them. We'll try and get through this setback and keep you updated.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 01, 2020, 10:45:03 pm
Glenn, glad you are safe and back in the warmth and hospitality of Mexico. Now first off check those 2 relays out by swapping them. One note, I guess the gen does not even crank does it? If you find it is one of the relays there are 3 electronic stores by the old Town. Google "electronic stores in mazatlan" John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John44 on December 02, 2020, 05:52:20 am
When all else fails call Jeff at power tech.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 02, 2020, 07:15:46 pm
Just received my 4 relays from Mouser Electronics in Mansfield Texas. Mailed on 30th arrived today in BC Canada, not bad by UPS. JOHNH
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: DayDreamer on December 02, 2020, 07:17:12 pm
John, Please share the part numbers you ordered from Mousers.
Look at reply #24, I ordered the 5 of them yesterday.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 02, 2020, 08:36:36 pm
The ones from Mouser have not been used or pulled from a board. They sell new stock. My cost in cndn funds was just over $3 each. Check their web site and fill in the relay # Johnh
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on December 02, 2020, 09:01:12 pm
Mouser's the nutz!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MarkC on December 02, 2020, 09:23:20 pm
I got these a while back on Amazon.... Amazon.com: Song Chuan 871-1C-C-R1U01 12VDC ( Pack of 3) Micro 280 SPDT... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07959M68S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 02, 2020, 11:43:53 pm
The batteries have been float charging all day. Victron and Magnum say 95% SOC at 12.92 V I am used to seeing higher numbers. The house batteries are suspect. I kept wavering on choosing best replacement this summer.... Woulda, coulda, shoulda..... Generator just ticks Aqua Hot won't fire up....that is a concern, as the nozzle will gum up if I can't run it every so often. Looking into some options. Mexico doesn't sell lots of the big brand batteries Anyone heading' down with room for some big batteries?? To top it off, yesterday, when we pulled in and I went to plug into the landline, my Progressive unit read good on both legs coming into the coach. Only problem was.....NOTHING was coming into the coach. I checked the transfer switch....nada. Took some hard thinking, especially after 7 hours of some intense driving of the coach, but finally realized that the Progressive EMS, which had been working all last month, perfectly, is dead. When it rains......... So three batteries and an EMS. Anyone on their way??
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 03, 2020, 12:03:32 am
Mexico makes a lot of our batteries. Let us know what size battery you need and what city you are in and we will find you batteries.
Autozone, NAPA, Walmart, Sam's Club are all represented in Mexico.
Since your destination is Mazatlan, here are just some of the battery dealers there: car batteries in mazatlan - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:10&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=ALeKk02_1L1JV7SjCWQMuTPjVRW430kLjg:1606971673682&q=car+batteries+in+mazatlan&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjKi5j-g7HtAhW8KDQIHbNYCjgQtgN6BAgGEAg#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:)[[23.285054543778394,-106.33950691168484],[23.20145821642669,-106.48713569586452],null,[23.24326292826551,-106.41332130377468],13]
If you use Chrome for a browser, it will automatically translate the pages into English.
If you need them soon, tell us where you are.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 03, 2020, 12:14:27 am
Will do, Pierce You rock! I'll be ok We just got here, yesterday. Here for six months. Stay healthy
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: amos.harrison on December 03, 2020, 07:12:56 am
Trying to run the Aqua Hot at low voltage will take out the burner. Ask me how I know.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Jack Lewis on December 03, 2020, 09:08:46 am
Trying to run the Aqua Hot at low voltage will take out the burner. Ask me how I know.
So true, when voltage goes low the amps increase, stressing if not destroying most electric items. This is another reason to have a good monitor like the Victron 712 to help notify you to prevent such mishaps. Often it is not user error, just a failing battery or other system component. The low voltage turnoff on most inverter/chargers is set to 10.5 volts for just that reason, to prevent destructive usage.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: AC7880 on December 03, 2020, 10:10:07 am
Are you *sure* it is the Progressive that failed?
If shore voltage is out of range, it may be the built in coach (factory original) EMS not letting power in. (Maverick voltage monitor)
I had that issue in the past, and there are adjustable pots in the basement (assuming the 2001 U320 is ike our 2003 U320).
In our case, the progressive was ok with the shore voltage, the factory system was not. A minor adjustment of the pot let power in, and the voltage was OK with the progressive.
Is your progressive system hard wired, or pedestal seperate unit type?
This thread has details: Help - NO shore power into coach (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=39509.msg389182#msg389182)
The batteries have been float charging all day. Victron and Magnum say 95% SOC at 12.92 V I am used to seeing higher numbers. The house batteries are suspect. I kept wavering on choosing best replacement this summer.... Woulda, coulda, shoulda..... Generator just ticks Aqua Hot won't fire up....that is a concern, as the nozzle will gum up if I can't run it every so often. Looking into some options. Mexico doesn't sell lots of the big brand batteries Anyone heading' down with room for some big batteries?? To top it off, yesterday, when we pulled in and I went to plug into the landline, my Progressive unit read good on both legs coming into the coach. Only problem was.....NOTHING was coming into the coach. I checked the transfer switch....nada. Took some hard thinking, especially after 7 hours of some intense driving of the coach, but finally realized that the Progressive EMS, which had been working all last month, perfectly, is dead. When it rains......... So three batteries and an EMS. Anyone on their way??
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 03, 2020, 10:26:06 am
Glenn,
Glad to be of assistance! Mazatlan is sure to have the electrical equivalent of Antonio in painting. Here are the electrical shops in Mazatlan: electrical shops mazatlan - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:10&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=ALeKk01R_MqzkYn2am7dMkr7ldLcsQXrRA:1607008935371&q=electrical+shops+mazatlan&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwiQj_nljrLtAhUYrp4KHZRrBBUQtgN6BAgDEAg#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:)[[23.289405,-106.38599049999999],[23.1960154,-106.45357340000001]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e1!1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e2!2m1!1e16!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:10. Think a shop that does boat work might be good as salt water and electrical components don't like each other. The auto parts stores also may have a line on some sharp guys.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Chris m lang on December 03, 2020, 10:45:12 am
ordered 4-- 871-1C-C-R1-12VDC 35 AMP 1 FORM A from mouser electronics for a total of 18.22 including shipping and taxes Chris
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 03, 2020, 12:04:36 pm
Glenn, find an LTH battery as there are many or google 12 v batteries 12volt batteries in mazatlan Have you taken one of yours off system and tested it while you are hooked up. Did you see if shore power worked without out the Progressive in line or is yours like mine hard wired in. John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 03, 2020, 02:52:19 pm
My Progressive isn't hard wired. Yes, when we by passsed the EMS and plugged directly into the pedestal, all was good. Correct voltage in each leg. Now we'll see how good Progressive is about warranties. I PROMISE to keep y'all informed.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on December 03, 2020, 02:59:28 pm
In my recent experience Progressive is great with warrantee replacement as long as you have the receipt. They changed their policy a few years ago from 'unconditional' to 'original purchaser with receipt'.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 04, 2020, 04:03:01 pm
Contacted Progressive tech. He walked me through testing for the obvious, "open ground or neutral." The EMS DID display E2..... Yup, Open ground. Just like it said The RV park had it fixed within minutes....missing wire...I'm in Mexico. Things are "different" here. Progressive EMS did what it's supposed to. I called them back to let them know they nailed it. Everyone is happy
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: wolfe10 on December 04, 2020, 04:30:23 pm
Correct, grounds are NOT required in Mexico (or at least aren't there in most parks. But, most are "limited" 15 amp anyway.
Have used an "adapter" with long wire to serve as ground wrapped around a metal water pipe. Don't know if this would fool your EMS though.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 07, 2020, 05:21:30 pm
Okay, I am revisiting my generator problem. I have looked over the Operator's manual I have spoken with Keith Reich ....couldn't help I have reread the posts here.... I have had the batteries charging off the land line . BOTH Magnum and my new Victron say that I have 100% SOC and 13.3 voltage When I press the gen start, I just get the ticking sound that most here think is the fuel pump I need to find, and then, switch the relays. What's an ES52? Don't want to sound stupid, but Where Are They? Sven, John.....come on now.... Someone can guide me through this. Got my voltage tester in hand...... And yes, I will probably buy some batteries here. Can't always get what you want.........
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 07, 2020, 05:45:42 pm
Go to reply #19 where Mike explains what they are and where they are.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on December 07, 2020, 05:46:13 pm
Have you placed a call to Jeff at Powertech, he will have your answers. +18007600027
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 07, 2020, 06:10:43 pm
If the gen has the control box on top pull gen out and take metal box cover off. Inside is the ESboard with relays. If you do not have new ones only thing you can do is swap them to see if it starts. If it does then it will most probably stop once filter fuel is used, but will tell you that it is relays that need to be changed out. There is possibly also the latching breaker in there but again if you do not have a spare you will have to steal one out of bathroom lighting which if like ours is in the mid basement behind panel on wall. Like Bruce said call Jeff but he was not much good to me as mine was different issue. Mike may be best one to PM. John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 07, 2020, 06:31:25 pm
Haven't called Jeff yet. If I have to pull the gen out, I need to disconnect exhaust.? Never have tried that. Also.... when I press the charger button on my Magnum, the green light is blinking??? It says charger standby and full charge at 12.8 v Why is it blinking?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 07, 2020, 06:33:59 pm
Read the Magnum book It says, if blinking, in Standby mode, not allowing incoming AC to charge batteries. Said to "stop" blinking press On off charger button I did Said if not, to disconnect/ reconnect ac power I turned off main breaker Still blinking
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 07, 2020, 08:55:17 pm
Like I suggested PM Pamela and Mike asap John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: folivier on December 08, 2020, 07:43:30 am
Check all of the wire connections at the ES52 board and at any white plugs, etc. My problem I found to be either loose or broken wires either at the ES52 or at the white plug. When I moved the ES52 and relays to the side compartment I found a broken wire also that was keeping the dash switch from working properly.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 08, 2020, 08:30:33 am
With Glenn having a '01 coach he may have the Powertec enclosure rather than the Foretravel in house enclosure. If so his electronic module is harder to find and get to to trouble shoot. It could be the start switches have gotten out of time or one has failed.
Glenn check your P/Ms. Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 08, 2020, 09:29:15 am
(1) When I press the gen start, I just get the ticking sound that most here think is the fuel pump I need to find, and then, switch the relays. What's an ES52? (2) Don't want to sound stupid, but Where Are They? Sven, John.....come on now.... Someone can guide me through this. (3) Got my voltage tester in hand...... And yes, I will probably buy some batteries here. (4) Can't always get what you want.........
(1) Beginning here, the first thing you need to do is find out exactly what is ticking. Ticking describes a wide range of sounds and each and every one of them leads to the solution. Different solutions each and every sound, but the solution.
(2) Realizing that you don't know is the beginning of knowledge. Well the acquisition of knowledge.
(3) (Friendly Snark) Oh boy.
(4) But if you try some time, you get what you need.
We have a classic Onan Emerald 7.5 KW generator, but "WE" also have education and experience building industrial control systems. I am making an educated guess that ES 52 is an "ice cube" relay. something about the size of an ice cube that can be unplugged from a socket. Someone also mentioned "latching." Relays can be made with a mechanical latching mechanism, pulse it once and it locks in the on position, pulse it again and it un-latches.
FWIW, the other half of "WE" replied to my comment that Mr. Yeager appeared humble in public. Lynn replied "My dad says that he really was like that. It may have had to do with the secrecy around most of the aircraft he flew. They met on the X-15 project."
Art.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: folivier on December 08, 2020, 09:39:55 am
Art the ES52 is the control module that controls preheating and start/stop functions along with shutdown due to overheat and low oil pressure. And yes there are 2 mini relays on the ES52 that I think are fuel pump and start relays. It also has lights for the various alarms.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Tommy D on December 08, 2020, 09:48:32 am
See Mike & Pamela post #19 I think these are what you are looking for.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 08, 2020, 09:56:36 am
Art the ES52 is the control module that controls preheating and start/stop functions along with shutdown due to overheat and low oil pressure. And yes there are 2 mini relays on the ES52 that I think are fuel pump and start relays. It also has lights for the various alarms.
So our Foretravel friend in Mexico needs to accomplish two tasks. (1) is to find the ES52 control module, read the lights, check to see if one of those relays is cycling, and swap the relays one for the other and see if the starter engages and spins the engine.
(2) Confirm that the fuel pump is the source of the ticking noise.
Then report back for further instructions?
Art
PS When do we tell him that there is a starter solenoid to switch the heavy power to the starter?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 08, 2020, 10:20:03 am
To help out everyone as to what a DynaGen ES-52 module looks like from the side you see when you are looking for it. Once you find this, then what is in the pic. in reply 61 are what is hid inside the electrical cabinet. All you will see is the lights and sticker you see here.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Tommy D on December 08, 2020, 12:15:01 pm
Glenn this is where my Voltage regulator (your not having that problem) was located. I THINK the relays that you are looking for are under the panel on the top left side of the Generator. I THINK you have the quiet box like mine? (Someone correct me if I am wrong and will remove this post) The screws were a bear to get too and to get out. All were on the top. Ive got one now but this would have been a life saver when trying to get the screws out. I picked one up at auto zone for $6
Neiko 03043A Right Angle 1/4-Inch Dual-Drive Head Mini Ratchet Wrench... (https://smile.amazon.com/Neiko-03043A-Dual-Drive-Screwdriver-17-Piece/dp/B079F3DN5M/ref=sr_1_19?crid=RX73FMOE186Z&dchild=1&keywords=small+ratchet+set+1%2F4+drive&qid=1607447520&sprefix=small+ratchet+%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-19)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 08, 2020, 01:48:02 pm
Thanks, all I am in touch with Mike I have never pulled my generator out, and if I did, will it run if I disconnected the exhaust? necessary to do so? I have an offset tool, not as cool as the one shown, and COULD try and remove the top of the box while in place. How would I get to the relays? Looks tight And here's the rub..... We have no land line this morning.....electricity is "out" BOTH my Magnum AND my Victron show 100% SOC and I am inverting at 13.1 with only 360 w of solar to help batteries So WHY can't I turn the gen over and IF my AH isn't firing up, why not Will be contacting Rudy next
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: oldguy on December 08, 2020, 02:17:39 pm
I know when I pull my generator out, I don't disconnect the exhaust and I don't see why I couldn't run the generator when out.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: folivier on December 08, 2020, 02:30:46 pm
I also have a thumbwheel driver like these that works well in tight spots: Amazon.com: Titan 11218 Finger Grip Drivers (3 Piece): Home Improvement (https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Tools-11218-Finger-Drivers/dp/B013GK9I3A/ref=sr_1_11?crid=9VSUOH2USZM0&dchild=1&keywords=thumbwheel+ratchet&qid=1607455512&s=hi&sprefix=thumbwheel%2Ctools%2C222&sr=1-11) Also with mine, which is not enclosed, I found if I let the generator door (fiberglass front end of the coach) drop down a foot or so it gave me more room to get to the box. Sounds counter-intuitive but try it, may work for you. Borrow your wife's make up mirror or buy one so you can see in the box.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 08, 2020, 06:46:35 pm
Thanks, all I am in touch with Mike I have never pulled my generator out, and if I did, will it run if I disconnected the exhaust?
Are you saying that you have never run an engine with open exhaust? Never too late to start.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 08, 2020, 06:55:19 pm
Update: My Aqua Hot fired up like a charm Back to generator
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 08, 2020, 06:56:03 pm
I would have to pull the gen out to access the screws for top of control box to check relays Trying to find the proper procedure of " how to" Says to disconnect flexible exhaust first... Where? Then.......???
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 08, 2020, 07:17:08 pm
Glenn. Take the bolts off the slides on both side of gen. The last picture you posted show the bolt at bottom right. Then crawl underneath and at the back of gen box you will see a corrugated pipe going to small muffler. Undo clamp at joint and take that pipe off. This will allow you to pull the fen out about 10". Still tough to get all 6 screws off but u can do it. Spray them first with release oil. John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Tommy D on December 08, 2020, 07:22:12 pm
One on each side—-2 total
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: oldguy on December 08, 2020, 08:09:29 pm
John I guess my generator is different. I see from the picture the bolts to hold the gen. go in front to back well mine go in sideways.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 08, 2020, 08:20:05 pm
John I guess my generator is different. I see from the picture the bolts to hold the gen. go in front to back well mine go in sideways.
oldguy,
You have the old style Foretravel in house quiet box. Yours is all together different, not bad just different.
Glenn has the new style that came from Powertec as a hole unit inside there quiet box. This is a great help as to what he has and where things are located.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 08, 2020, 10:20:05 pm
Mike Should I pull the gen and open the box?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: TGordon on December 09, 2020, 03:11:17 am
Have you tried 'jumping" the battery cable directly to the starter lug? Have you tried to move the solenoid lever manually?
What is the condition of the battery cable ends? What is the condition of the ground connections?
The source of the clicking sound can be found by using your hand (touchy-feely) or using a screwdriver as a stethoscope.
It is possible that getting the starter to crank will start the engine until the fuel supply is interrupted.
Tim
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 09, 2020, 07:15:05 am
I am pretty sure you are going to end up pulling the generator out on the slide to trouble shoot both the control electronics and getting to the backside of the generator to access the starter and related wiring.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 09, 2020, 08:45:46 am
That would be yes*, and yes you can run the engine with the exhaust pipe disconnected, without doing damage to anything except your hearing.
*It's the next step, a necessary step, to trouble shoot your problem.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 12:57:16 pm
Getting my mojo up to pull the generator. Before I do, there is a new "wrinkle" in my electrical sphere that may, or not, be related. First off....I was at 100% SOC this morning and 14.1v, according to Magnum and Victron monitors. Second, I went to turn off my main breaker at the foot of the bed, as I did, everyday, last year, to run off inverter and 360 w solar, to save $$$ on the high priced electricity at our RV park. No problems, last year. This morning, I flipped the main breaker off, but my display STILL SHOWED 120 in each leg. Inverter wouldn't work. I went outside and flipped off the main at the pedestal, and was able to get inverter on, BUT power WASN'T getting to my outlets!!?? Sooo............something' ain't right. Sure hope the two issues, ( generator) and this aren't related. I'm entering the DARK ZONE.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 09, 2020, 02:07:11 pm
Does the inverter have a delay and did you wait for it?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 02:43:56 pm
Not sure about a delay I just tried this, again When I flip the main, the display shows I still have 120 into both legs. I DON'T. Outlets are dead. I press inverter button on Magnum.....nothing to outlets Something ain't right, but I don't know where to look Transfer switch? Let's remember the generator thing Never had this problem before
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on December 09, 2020, 03:40:59 pm
Maybe a GFCI breaker(s) is tripped.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on December 09, 2020, 04:17:18 pm
GFI outlet tripped in the bath room? Do you have power to everything when plugged into the power pole. If so you need to get a meter out and see if you have 12v in to the inverter, if not blown fuse on the feed to the inverter. If you have 12v going in to the inverter, see if you have 120v coming out at the inverter, if not tripped breaker at the inverter, bad inverter. If you have 120v coming out of the inverter then with your meter check and see if you have power at transfer sw at the foot of the bed, you will have to open the transfer sw to check.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: AC7880 on December 09, 2020, 04:18:38 pm
As T-Man said check your GFCI outlets. One in btahroom by sink, red reset button.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 04:26:36 pm
Not the GFI When I go back to utility pole, everything works fine. WHY does my meter show 120 each leg AFTER I flip the MAIN breaker??
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 04:48:29 pm
Thought I posted something Don't see it Anyway.... control box is now open Three relays. First two look like what I'm supposed to swap Here goes....
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 05:04:38 pm
Is there a "trick" to removing the relays Wiggling them and trying to pull up on them Won't budge There are five prongs on them? They carry juice, so don't want to short anything out Need some help guys
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John44 on December 09, 2020, 05:20:41 pm
At this point with the relays right there I would have the wife try and start the generator and make sure one of those 3 is the one clicking.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 09, 2020, 05:37:32 pm
Is there a "trick" to removing the relays Wiggling them and trying to pull up on them Won't budge There are five prongs on them?
There is a screwdriver pry slot on the relay base the problem is those relays are in backwards to each other. What that means is you can get to one of the pry slots and not the other. I have always been able to wiggle them back and forth to get them to come loose.
Yes 5 prongs.
While in there whack on that latching relay. It is what looks like a step pyramid. Push the button on it to see if it is stuck. This is what makes the 3 start switches work.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 06:43:19 pm
Switched relays Same clicking at fuel pump? White switch seems to work....same as the toggle in front of box OK Next?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 09, 2020, 06:53:42 pm
Glenn,
The fuel pump is in your 2nd pic. It is the round metal cylinder. Feel of it and make sure that is where the clicking is coming from. Then check the backside of the generator housing to see if you can get to the backside of the generator motor. That is where the starter is located. there you can check the wires and whack is with a hammer to see if you can jar it to life.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 06:54:54 pm
I'll look for the starter
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2020, 07:05:23 pm
I cannot see a starter Wha am I missing?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 09, 2020, 07:13:22 pm
Well that looks like the quiet box will have to be taken apart to get to the backside of the engine and starter. Exactly how yours come apart would be a guess for me. It looks like there are several bolts that will have to be removed and then somehow the cover may come out.
Make sure that those 2 battery cables are clean and tight to start with. Make sure you have battery voltage at the + and - cables right at those 2 post.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MisterEd on December 09, 2020, 10:03:18 pm
Glenn,
IMO, everything you mention (generator won't start, inverter not working) leads to a 12V house power problem at the panel. If your house batteries are good, try checking for 12V at the distribution panel in the second bay, front left side. Maybe a bad/loose connection where the battery cables connect, or a tripped breaker. Also make sure the salesman switch in the step well is turned on...though, this shouldn't effect the inverter.
Greg
EDIT: Deleted incorrect, and repeated information.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MisterEd on December 09, 2020, 10:13:04 pm
Well that looks like the quiet box will have to be taken apart to get to the backside of the engine and starter. Exactly how yours come apart would be a guess for me. It looks like there are several bolts that will have to be removed and then somehow the cover may come out.
Make sure that those 2 battery cables are clean and tight to start with. Make sure you have battery voltage at the + and - cables right at those 2 post.
Mike
The starter can be accessed, as Mike says, from the back. You'll want to remove the left panel. Before doing this, remove and insulate the "BATT POSS" cable so you don't short out that cable when removing the panel. There's 1 screw near the coolant fitting that you'll need a 7/16 open end wrench. The rest are fairly easy to get to.
BTW, I missed the last sentence in Mikes last post....sorry to repeat the good advice. O:)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 10, 2020, 09:04:07 am
Make sure you have battery voltage at the + and - cables right at those 2 post.
Mike
And herein lies the rub with a modern high impedance voltmeter.* You need to put some stress on the cables when you measure the voltage. A light bulb is nice, but the engine starter is better. Using your jumper cable is o-kay, just clip the negative to the starter body and push the positive to the power lug on the starter. Should be a big spark and the sound of an engine turning.
Unless you load the circuit leakage current will make you think all is good.
For the other U320 owners I have to ask: Where are the great big breakers, which are in our U225, hidden in the battery compartment?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 10, 2020, 10:49:21 am
And herein lies the rub with a modern high impedance voltmeter.* You need to put some stress on the cables when you measure the voltage. A light bulb is nice, but the engine starter is better. Using your jumper cable is o-kay, just clip the negative to the starter body and push the positive to the power lug on the starter. Should be a big spark and the sound of an engine turning.
Unless you load the circuit leakage current will make you thing all is good.
For the other U320 owners I have to ask: Where are the great big breakers, which are in our U225, hidden in the battery compartment?
They are mounted to the generator control panel on my '99
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John44 on December 10, 2020, 11:05:01 am
Gleam,if you can try and "facetime" with one of us so we can hear the clicking sound maybe that would help.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MisterEd on December 10, 2020, 11:05:30 am
And herein lies the rub with a modern high impedance voltmeter.* You need to put some stress on the cables when you measure the voltage.
Unless you load the circuit leakage current will make you thing all is good.
Good point, O T.
Glenn,
It's unlikely that your generator and inverter would fail at the same time. Therefore, I would check the main terminals on the 12V house distribution panel, I mentioned earlier, in the left side of the second bay. It's behind the white FRP cover with 3 wing nuts. (See pics). This is the point where the generator and inverter are powered from. Make sure the terminals are clean and the nuts on the posts are tight. Keep in-mind that the positive terminal is live, and not fused, when the house battery is connected, OR when the boost is turned on. Note that the generator supply is not fused. The inverter fuse is below the main terminals. If you're not certain of the condition of the house battery, disconnect the battery ground, and try this with the boost on.
Hope this helps, Greg
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2020, 05:01:54 pm
UPDATE: I appreciate all the input I received, and help from this forum. It was a main reason that we chose Foretravel, when we never had even heard the name, before. With help from you, I was able to pull the generator out, and control box. I called Jeff, as directed, and was more than pleased with how quickly he was able to walk me through the diagnosis. He had me release the ES52 from the control box, and then disconnect the blue wire going into it. He then had me touch a terminal and she fired right up!! Not the starter....yeah!!!!! Need a new ES 52 sent down here, and will order a spare latch switch, while I'm at it. One problem down........aye
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on December 10, 2020, 06:53:05 pm
As I said Jeff is the generator go to guy.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 10, 2020, 07:43:41 pm
Glen, will you please post exactly what Jeff told you to do and if possible any pictures of wiring concerned. Many of us have the same unit so what to do is very important. Write it out clearly please. Johnh
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2020, 07:59:09 pm
John, Thought I did in post101? After I disconnected the blue wire from the ES52, he David to look for a unit that was about an inch square and half an inch deep with red wires going into both sides of it. It took a minute, but easily found on the right side of my control box Then he had me touch the blue wire to either side. I went for the front One and she fired right up. Told me bad ES52F Will order one tomorrow, but here in Mexico, who knows when I'll see it. I'll try and add photos when the new part comes. The hardest part of this repair was removing the last screw holding the lid to the control box. The generator doesn't quite come out enough. Took me an hour to remove the screw. It's ALWAYS the last screw that gives you trouble. At $140/hr, let's see...........
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MisterEd on December 10, 2020, 08:15:32 pm
At that rate :o , you probably saved enough to buy the part that needs replacing, and maybe enough left over for a decent bottle of tequila. The satisfaction from being able to fix it yourself: Priceless! ^.^d
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 11, 2020, 08:52:11 am
Congratulations! Do you feel a little better now?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on December 11, 2020, 10:23:19 am
That es52 will hurt your wallet. Glad you got part of you problem solved
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 11:10:37 am
It was suggested that I buy just the relays. I will look into that, first. I also wanted to order a spare latch switch, but don't know where to buy one from now. And yes....I sleep MUCH better, now. I didn't think the starter was the issue....it ran like a top, and I serviced it regularly, even with minimum use. I always exercised it, while in storage, with load. Thanks for all the help
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 11, 2020, 11:34:30 am
Glenn,
I am glad that you have made progress on trouble shooting and be back up and running soon. I may have some info on that latching relay and pill post if I can find it.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 11:54:06 am
I just reread all the discussion, here. Mike gave me the correct info, early on, regarding switching the two relays behind the EM52 I had a " high dummy factor" working, and did not understand what was CLEARLY presented to me, including pictures of the back of the unit. As I said, the hardest part of this experience was getting the last screw off the back of the control box. I want to thank you all, again, for your patience with me. This was new terrain for me, and I am now a whole lot more comfortable working on the generator. It is, one, well made unit, and we try and take good care of it.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 11, 2020, 12:13:09 pm
Glenn,
Let me make sure when you are talking about latching switch you mean the white latching relay that is mounted on the back wall of the control box. I had to go out to the RV and look at my spare latching relay to find the number.
If so here you go: Finder - 20.22.9.012.0000 - DPST-NO DIN Rail Panel Mount Latching Relay; 16... (https://www.alliedelec.com/product/finder/20-22-9-012-0000/70747753/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&scid=scbplp70747753&sc_intid=70747753&msclkid=d0a136dd32a21f504839690e96e3e954&gclid=CKDftqyyxu0CFYutZQod7FwELA&gclsrc=ds)
Mouser is another supplier that will have them I just don't have them bookmarked at present.
You may even be able to find them on Amazon or eBay cheaper. While the generator is out and the cover is off the control box check your relay and make sure that yours is the same. Look for the TYP 20.21 on your relay and double check the coil voltage as it should be printed on there.
There is a link on reply 36 that has the relays for the ES-52 so I just copied it so all the info is together. Amazon.com: Song Chuan 871-1C-C-R1U01 12VDC ( Pack of 3) Micro 280 SPDT... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07959M68S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&tag=foreforums-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957)
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 11, 2020, 12:47:13 pm
Let me tie this in here as I have been ask about the ES-52. First off it's proper name is a DynaGen ES-52 They are not special to our coach or even Powertec as lots of companies use them on there products. Here is a link to the company site that you can go to and download some good info for those that are inclined. ES52 Auto Start Engine Controller | DynaGen Technologies (https://dynagen.ca/es52-auto-start-engine-controller) Now prices are all over the board so shop around to make sure you get the best customer service for the price of the module.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 12:49:55 pm
Yup That's the relays and latch Thanks
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 01:07:59 pm
I know there isn't an answer, but.... Why wouldn't Jeff recommend just replacing the relays and not buying a $250?? item Or there IS an answer He was a great help, though. So NO complaints
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 11, 2020, 01:22:13 pm
Glenn, if Jeff quoted you 250 for new board something does not smell good as he quoted me 500 us when I was talking to him. Read Mike's last link to Dinagen and see section 4 in Troubleshooting for Engine not cranking. It mentions relay or fuse. Jeff wants to sell them at his price as they are in the business of making a profit etc. Normal business. John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 11, 2020, 01:59:37 pm
Nothing to do with native intelligence. More like a brain cramp of brain freeze. Panic.
Example. I lost the left rear wheel from my car one week ago. I asked Lynn to come pick me up and take me to the doctor's and call a flat bed. He showed up with a floor jack and a socket set and said "Why don't we just steal one lug bolt from each of the other three wheels?"
The doctor's office called an suggested coming moving my appointment back a couple of hours.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 02:09:30 pm
Thought I posted this? I just switched the two relays Same issue... Just the " clicking" of the fuel pump When I touched the blue wire to the post, yesterday, it jumped to start up Jeff did not give me a quote I was googling a ES52 and, somehow, came across that amount. Also, a ten year old forum where one was bought on eBay for $75! Wow!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 02:17:04 pm
Tried to take picture of the contact in the right side of the control box Pretty tight in there Anyway, it had one red wire on the left side and two on the right I touched the two post
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: MarkC on December 11, 2020, 03:23:03 pm
Found this on DynaGen ES-52 line for $250
ES52 Auto Start Module For Generator, Engine | Generator Parts | ASAP (https://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=410)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pamela & Mike on December 11, 2020, 03:38:49 pm
Glenn,
If you touched the Blue wire to the Red wire in the pic. of reply 118 you were suppling 12vdc to the relay coil that makes it close. Now that changing relays didn't help but connecting voltage to the Blue wire did you need to check the little fuse that is located right between the 2 relays. If you look at the pic in reply 61 you can see the little yellow fuse. If it is bad replace and try again. If that fuse is good then I hate to say that something gave up internally and you will need a new ES-52.
Mike
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 05:09:28 pm
Yeah My thoughts exactly I'll check the fuse and let you know, but wouldn't Jeff had told me to look at the fuse?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 11, 2020, 05:42:32 pm
ES52 Auto Start Module For Generator, Engine | Generator Parts | ASAP (https://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=410)
Thats where I got mine from. But beware you have to set the dip switches to Match your old es52, or things will not work right.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2020, 11:54:32 pm
How do you set your dip switches?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 12, 2020, 12:11:56 am
You just move a tiny switch that is either one direction or another. Just like a long code. 1 up 1 down etc just like the original. I have not done it but think looking at picture that is what you do. John
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: master2301 on December 12, 2020, 12:14:01 am
Pulled off internet Manual https://dynagen.ca/sites/default/files/Support%20Files/MAN-0001R5.0,%20ES52%20User%20Manual.pdf
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 12, 2020, 09:53:07 am
With a tooth pick. That red thing with the white switches is called a dual in-line package. Use a toothpick to firmly but gently move the switches onto the proper position. Check what you have done. Go have a cup of coffee, and check again when you return.
Using the jpeg provided by Master2301, Switches 1, 2, and 3 as a set, allow you to choose the number of times your generator's engine tries to start, that is to say from 1 to 6 times. Cranking time set by adjustment #3 Crank Rest. Be gentle when you turn the screw because those are delicate ceramic potentiometers.
Switches 4 and 5 taken as a pair choose a high or low range of adjustment for pots (1) crank disconnect and (2) crank overspeed in generator Hertz.
Switch 6 gives you the option of seizing up your engine by running it without oil pressure. Or not.
Switch 7 and 8, ask someone else but my guess would be off, off for glowplugs if you have a diesel engine'd generator.
Switch 9 protects your starter if the starting battery is low in charge.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 12, 2020, 01:42:56 pm
I just looked at the back of my ES52 and do NOT see any red thing with switches.I looked at Tommy's post #61, and will look again. I , also, checked the fuse between the two relays It was good I fear I need a new ES 52, which Jeff said is an ES 52F.....I googled this and found nothing Jeff told me that the new ES52, from Power Tech, would be " plug and play" Now I'm concerned if I order from ASAP, I might have a problem Too much money at stake, here. What should I do?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 12, 2020, 02:26:13 pm
Glenn the only difference would be Jeff setting the dip switches which you can do yourself by looking at the one you remove. There is only one manufacturer of the unit.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 12, 2020, 05:12:35 pm
Roger, that Thanks!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 12, 2020, 06:34:01 pm
I just looked at the back of my ES52 and do NOT see any red thing with switches.I looked at Tommy's post #61, and will look again. I , also, checked the fuse between the two relays It was good I fear I need a new ES 52, which Jeff said is an ES 52F.....I googled this and found nothing Jeff told me that the new ES52, from Power Tech, would be " plug and play" Now I'm concerned if I order from ASAP, I might have a problem Too much money at stake, here. What should I do?
The ES52-F may not have the DIP switches, instead being hardwired for your generator engine combination.
ES52 Auto Start Module For Generator, Engine | Generator Parts | ASAP (https://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=410)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 12, 2020, 07:01:40 pm
All those links are the same controller. The mention on pre set is for the 60 cyc. of our generators.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 12, 2020, 07:37:38 pm
So, I take it I would be ok to buy the less expensive ES52 and not regret the decision?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 12, 2020, 11:24:20 pm
So, I take it I would be ok to buy the less expensive ES52 and not regret the decision?
Read the manual in the link for the less expensive one and the instructions for the dip switches are there. Maybe Mike will chime in but a ES52 is the same no matter who you buy if from. See Mikes reply #112
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Sven and Kristi on December 13, 2020, 12:04:40 am
Glenn, I've been off line for a while and just saw the posts. I worked my way up through #96 and decided to skip the rest. I'm not sure what else has been done or what you've tried, so I will just post a diagram I did a while back that might be helpful in seeing where things go. I believe it is accurate and I've asked others to verify. On the right side of the box (referring to the diagram) there is a 40 amp CB just forward to the relays. This one, I believe is for the generator starter. The drawn lines represent wires. Sorry the diagram is a little faded in that area. Regarding the clicking sound: In older cars, that sound would be from the mechanical starter solenoid trying to complete a circuit that doesn't have enough power to turn over the starter. I don't know if that would be applicable here.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: ratbug on December 13, 2020, 07:50:45 am
I'm replacing parts as well, 2 burnt relays, and bad starter, and likely bad es52 something board...this may help?
Power Tech Mobile Power Generators – Power Tech Mobile Generators (http://www.powertechgenerators.com)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 13, 2020, 08:34:28 am
So, I take it I would be ok to buy the less expensive ES52 and not regret the decision?
Regret's an emotion. Would it be a bad decision? No. Could something go wrong? Yes. Why? Fear or carelessness.
Either way, whether or not you purchase a DynaGen ES52F or the more universal ES52 you will need to transfer all of the connections to the new board.
I'm currently re-reading Frank Herbert's Dune.
The Litany Against Fear
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
Been there, done that, and now you can get this quote on a Tee shirt.
Art
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 13, 2020, 10:07:56 am
The difference with the es52f is it doesn't have the dip switches. Do you want to pay $250.00 more to not have to set the switches? That's your choice.
Power Tech Mobile Generator Auto Start Controller - ES52FS (https://www.powertechgenerators.com/products/generator-auto-start-controller-es52fs)
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 13, 2020, 10:37:08 am
The difference with the es52f is it doesn't have the dip switches. Do you want to pay $250.00 more to not have to set the switches? That's your choice.
Power Tech Mobile Generator Auto Start Controller - ES52FS (https://www.powertechgenerators.com/products/generator-auto-start-controller-es52fs)
Having the DIP switches means you can customize your installation for 6 10-second start re-tries with a rest in between.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2020, 12:48:57 pm
I was going to call Power Tech to find out how much they get for the ES52F that Jeff said I needed. Funny.....he never asked for the year, model, size, of my generator. Guess they are all the same. For over $250.....no problemo I will dip switch away.........
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: bbeane on December 13, 2020, 01:19:10 pm
Powertech $539.00 + shipping
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 13, 2020, 01:25:13 pm
Guess they are all the same. For over $250.....no problemo I will dip switch away.........
Take good photographs. Draw a cartoon and mark all of the wire locations and if the wires aren't numbered tag them with masking tape and mark the tape with a Sharpie.
Above all else double check the power and ground connections.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 13, 2020, 04:56:04 pm
Compared to what other auto start controllers cost, $550 seems outrageous. Another holiday season present for retirees.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Old Toolmaker on December 13, 2020, 06:25:09 pm
And thank you all for the journey. I now know that if I so choose I can add auto-start to my Onan Emerald II.
And that there are there ways other than a big heavy box on the floor for adding toad brakes. I could see myself trade the Siata and bikes in for a 1955 New Yorker!
Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 13, 2020, 06:36:33 pm
Like I said in an earlier Post Pierce, He told me $500 so should I ever need one it will be from someone else. So far mine is running good again every time I start it up for something to do. Twice the price is a bit much especially as we poor Canadians have to add 35% on plus customs. What ticks me off more is that it is made in Canada too, maybe Dynagen sell direct, but doubt that. JohnH
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2020, 06:51:23 pm
I wouldn't even mind a price that was a little higher than the $250......after all, Jeff earned his money with me. Took him NO time to diagnose the problem. But TWICE THE PRICE??!!! Ouch!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 13, 2020, 07:42:13 pm
Like I said in an earlier Post Pierce, He told me $500 so should I ever need one it will be from someone else. So far mine is running good again every time I start it up for something to do. Twice the price is a bit much especially as we poor Canadians have to add 35% on plus customs. What ticks me off more is that it is made in Canada too, maybe Dynagen sell direct, but doubt that. JohnH
There are a lot of auto generator starts available for a fraction of the price. Perhaps they could be easily adapted to the PowerTech.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: John Haygarth on December 13, 2020, 11:31:13 pm
Yes there are but maybe adapting them brings the price up to or close to 250+ so really not worth messing around with any others Johnh
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 14, 2020, 12:45:54 am
Yes there are but maybe adapting them brings the price up to or close to 250+ so really not worth messing around with any others Johnh [/quote Even at $250, that's half of $500 and once it was done, the schematic could be shared so the cost would be much lower.
Pierce
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on December 14, 2020, 09:43:25 am
Bottom line..... If I buy the $250 unit from ASAP, I should be OK, CORRECT?? There is NO reason to buy it from Power Tech... CORRECT?
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 14, 2020, 10:13:30 am
Same part number should be OK. Give them a call first.
P
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on December 14, 2020, 10:26:54 am
Sooo........... Since it's made in Canada, it's almost free there? Maybe my Canadian friends know somebody..................???!!!!!????🤣🤣
I Don't think you will beat the $250. price. I might buy a spare and that is the cheapest I can find.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 23, 2021, 04:37:03 pm
Finally got the ES52 delivered to me, here in Mazatlan, Mexico Replaced it as Jeff instructed me...." just plug and play" When I tried to start it from outside, I just heard the familiar " ticking" of the fuel pump Went inside and pressed my manual button.... Fired right up and ran for about three minutes The bottom "timer" light was on while it was running.... Then it stopped running , timer light went out and red " overcrank" came on Needless to say , I am dismayed. Any help , at this juncture, will be well received. Just a technicality.....after reading all the previous posts, I did NOT order the ES52 from Jeff.....it was twice the price. I say this because I wanted to, especially for all his help, but .......twice the price. So I am remiss to call him again, but will, if necessary. Thanks
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 23, 2021, 07:14:34 pm
No one out there? OK. My bad I forgot to hook up the speed signal connection Took the control box apart, again, and went to plug and play..... They CHANGED the connector!!!! I 'll have to contact the supplier and ask what it needs to be and hope I can find one here Sure is tight spot to be doing this
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on January 23, 2021, 07:57:17 pm
No one out there? OK. My bad I forgot to hook up the speed signal connection Took the control box apart, again, and went to plug and play..... They CHANGED the connector!!!! I 'll have to contact the supplier and ask what it needs to be and hope I can find one here Sure is tight spot to be doing this
Did you match the dip switches? Not going to solve the connector problem but needs to be matched to work when connected. Do you have any of these connectors in you spares? Looks like the 2 wires could be cut from the old plug and attached to the controller. You just need to find out which one goes where.https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-16-Count-Disconnects-Wire-Connectors/999953182?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-elc-_-google-_-lia-_-106-_-electricalaccessories-_-999953182-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&ds_a_cid=112741100&gclid=CjwKCAiAr6-ABhAfEiwADO4sfbwtdND9n6c_-
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 23, 2021, 10:00:51 pm
I looked for the dip switches but could not locate them
Where are they?
I looked in the paperwork that came with the unit and Powertech manual
Probably right under my nose
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 23, 2021, 10:32:34 pm
I just reviewed the previous posts regarding setting the dip switches There are non on the original unit I replaced, and none on the new unit What do I do now? Jeff said " plug and play"
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: master2301 on January 23, 2021, 11:44:30 pm
Manual states 9 dip switches and references the difference for plug questioned above.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 24, 2021, 12:10:22 am
This is the back if the unit I replaced It is the original I see NO dip switches It is the same as the new one I installed, except for the connection mentioned above
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on January 24, 2021, 12:31:23 am
They must have changed between my '99 and yours. At least you don't have to contend with them you have the default settings.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: folivier on January 24, 2021, 09:01:26 am
Your new one is preset internally according to the sticker. The only adjustment you can make is the time for the preheat either 8 or 16 seconds. 8 seconds should be adequate unless you're mostly in cold areas. Then you would cut that loop of wire at the bottom right (?). As for the speed sensor it is not polarity sensitive so if you can find or make connectors you just hook up the 2 wires. It won't continue to run if this is not connected.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 24, 2021, 10:29:36 am
Thanks Will do
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: folivier on January 24, 2021, 10:48:51 am
If you can't find the correct connector for the speed sensor see if a butt connector will fit. It is just a friction fit so you may need to tighten it up a bit.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 24, 2021, 12:45:52 pm
I was wrong There IS dip setting on new unit BUT NOT ON ORIGINAL How do I know how to set it up with nithing to copy???!!!
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: craneman on January 24, 2021, 01:13:37 pm
Go to reply 161 and read the settings post questions on settings you don't understand. Most are self explanatory such as low oil shutoff etc.
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 24, 2021, 01:22:57 pm
Will do New unit came with instructions First page TOLD me about connector change, with pictures It had been weeks since I disconnected it and it was hard to find Easy fix Reading up on setting dip switches Thanks
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: GleamB on January 24, 2021, 02:09:27 pm
What a WONDERFUL sound !!!! Runs like a top Even with muffler disconnected Thanks to all for the help with this What a learning experience Much appreciated
Title: Re: No generator
Post by: dlkj07 on January 31, 2024, 08:27:49 pm
What a WONDERFUL sound !!!! Runs like a top Even with muffler disconnected Thanks to all for the help with this What a learning experience Much appreciated
I know this is an old post but I'm installing a new ES52 genny controller like you did. Did you have to mess with any of the dip switches or Potentiometers? After reading through the manual, it looks like all the default settings should work without tweaking anything. Thank you.