Foretravel Owners' Forum

For cost?  I guess it depends on the alternative.  Would I spend $40K to repair my coach?  Getting one that is (otherwise) as good might cost more.

For trouble?  I get nervous before a job.  I get annoyed and sore during a job.  I am so (...) proud when I finish a job.  I have replaced shocks, air bags, recovered a vinyl roof, replaced an AC, new floor, replaced refrigerator cooling unit, repaired a furnace, and literally ten minutes ago, finished I replacing exhaust manifold gaskets.  One of the regrets in my life is that I didn't recognize the joy of RV mechanics soon enough.  I am 62, and it hurts to think that I might have only 10-15 years to keep fixing stuff.  I love the learning curve and the pride of ownership.

Draw the line?  I think it will be when I can't do it anymore, or it just hurts my body too much!

First you have to understand that they are all money pits, you will never recover any money you spend on them.
Like hitting yourself with a hammer, you can stop anytime you want, when have you had enough?
I draw the line at catastrophic engine or trans issues.

I have replaced the transmission with a Allison factory rebuilt one. Comes with 2yr warrenty that can be extended for money. I could have rebuilt the installed one. It had received damage from the damper. Could have purchased a used one. For me the factory rebuild was the way to go. For a engine. There are many many 8.3 or m11 available on the used market. That will usually be the most cost effective market for replacement. All the other systems if you pay labor. Cost one heck of alot.
One thing that might help.  Take the cost of a new coach. Compare it to what you have spent on your current coach. All of us are still well below the original cost of a coach.
I marvel that someone paid what they did for my coach when new. I also marvel that a stupid pickup can and do sell for $75,000.  Are we nuts!

You can get a muffler made at an industrial muffler shop. When I need one I will go with the resonator like other people in the
forum have.

If you do your own repairs the line would be if the coach was totaled in an accident. There is no mechanical issue that I would not repair including engine and transmission to keep my coach. Someone having to buy an engine and transmission and have it installed might not want to go to that expense depending on the year and condition of the coach. If the costs were higher than buying another coach the same year and condition then the line has been drawn.

It not just the cost so much,  i thing of replacing all the hydraulic hoses not just the one blown or the ones that look bad , change  a weak battery change all batteries, re-haul six packs before they give you trouble,  one leaking leveling valve replace all three  or do you just wait untill it brakes down completely.  If you need to replace one air conditioner do you replace the two just wondering how do you look at things. How many do pre maintenance?  Where do you draw the line . They old coach's 30 years old

To some level, it's a pareto of what you know has been replaced, what is the same age and is something that will age out, and what you know, based on others with a similar age coach, should be replaced given the age/mileage.

Rubber ages out.  If you have a hose that has aged out and leaks, replace all hoses for that system (like fuel lines).

Slide bladders can age out.  If you have slides, the bladders are at least 7 years old, and one develops a leak, it might behoove you to replace all.

Batteries?  In a bank, if one goes down, the others have had to make up for it.  Replace all in a bank, especially if not new.

Roof A/C's?  The older ones were generally quieter and performed better, but if you need to change one you might be looking at a new board for the other and a new wall controller.  It *might* make sense to replace both, but it depends on what the issue is with the bad one.

Overhauling things like six packs are preventative maintenance. 

At what point you draw the line is an individual thing.  Coaches are not like passenger cars where there are thousands and thousands of a particular vehicle and parts are available OEM and aftermarket.  The older the coach, the more self-resourceful you likely need to be.  The further from Nacogdoches you are, the more self-resourceful you need to be. 

I think you have in your past already figured out what the limit is. Do you buy old cars or new ones and the question in why. Houses? The old car could mechanically gone on forever, but at some point we upgrade.  I just replaced my old 2006 Dodge for a brand new 2006 dodge. Less miles and no corrosion , same truck, almost. These 20 year old equipment will outlive us if there maintained. So if your looking for a shiny new trouble free car buy one, I however actually do enjoy maintaining and being frustrated by new problems ( I keep telling myself that) It is a challenge at the very least, however it is quite rewarding for now. 10$ gallon fuel might change things.
Scott

An excellent question. I'm upside down in my coach financially. I am still on my original shocks, fuel lines, and bags. We are now full time and your question is very pertinent.

It's not just the age of the coach but the age of the owner. How long can I do this physically? I'm beginning to also ask myself, "What will wear out first?" An SOB gasser would probably outlast me.  For the moment our coach suits us and we smile every day at how well it functions as our new home.  We love having windows to the world.

I often talk to people thinking of getting a RV and when they ask about investing in a RV I usually will laugh then tell them that NO you are not investing in a RV no matter the brand— you are buying a money pit but you are investing in a life style
Buy what makes you happy and enjoy the lifestyle. 
I have  Had a gasser and personally don't plan to go back— other people like them and that is great for what they want to do!
As past post have said DWMYH!!
Chris

Been a road runner since 60's.. If you're a road runner you have to have something to run the road in . If a person merely likes to camp there are a lot less expensive ways to do it if expence matters.

But, there is a huge difference between a early '90s U280/U300 and a late coach as they age. The more conveniences a coach has, the more problems/expenses it's going to have down the road. Every one of these systems add complexity to the vehicle until it may overcome the owner, mentally or financially.

That's why it's so important to inspect before buying and have the history. Anytime a bulkhead coach is driven in winter where they treat the roads, it's going to drain the life out of the coach. Not immediately but gradually. When we travel to the snow states in winter, we take a car and motel it. In one trip across the northern states in winter, I had just put on a new trailer hitch and chrome ball on the RAV4. When we got home, the chrome ball was a rust ball. And that was in a month.

We are first campers/explorers and while we love the coach, I would sure like it better it it had a clutch, no auto leveling, etc. I never have minded leveling with 2x12s. While the AC is good all the other complex stuff is just stuff. Going on 13 years now with only a couple of airbags and a water pump relay to fail. All the other is discretionary. My old bus only had the service brakes but pulled the little Rabbit just fine through the mountains and deserts. It gave zero trouble in all the years I had it.

Maybe yours won't bite but a lot have. Just keep that in mind when you put together that wish list for must haves.

And I sincerely cross my fingers for everyone as we all have only so much time to do all our traveling.

All the best health and travel wise during this year.

Pierce

The new car is 5 years older than the old car it's replacing.  The new car is 57 years old.  But. It is simple and easy to maintain and parts are readily available.

Similar for the house.  1992 U225. Mechanical fuel injection. Rubber torsion bar suspension.  Easy to maintain.  Nothing that is mission critical controlled by sophisticated electronics.

This is the end game of our lives.  It's how we choose to live. 

When do you stop repairing?  How about when it gets boring, but don't, please don't, look at 20 years of repair receipts and cry over the money spent.  Instead look at the overall condition and decide if you want to go on another 20 years.

Art & Lynn

The newest coach I have ever bought was the '81 at 14 years old. The '99 was 16 years old. Never bought a new car in my life. The current '14 Grand Cherokee was only 5 years old when we bought it making it about 10 years newer than the other cars we have purchased. This will likely be the last car and the last coach I will own. I miss the old cars without electronics but I can still repair about 90 percent of the '14 just not the stuff that takes preparatory equipment from Chrysler to diagnose. The money spent on keeping the coach and car going will never exceed the price of new ones. My line in the sand will only be crossed in an accident as I posted before.

My line in the Sand would be when it's no longer fun or I'm getting down to the lower end of my funds. When I bought this coach it was 18 years old, and a lot of the stuff that I wanted done was already done. The air bags were replaced the fuel lines were replaced but then I had to replace them again, the windows were replaced with motion windows, the tires were relatively new, and the inside was relatively stock and needed some work. I looked at the inside as money well spent because I'd have to look at that every day. And I wanted it to be attractive to me so out came to tile floor out came the Corian countertop that didn't appeal to me anymore as they were yellowed and not my style. I took care of all the gold accents which again wasn't my style. I had Villa international make me 2 new chairs with matching ultra leather for the ultra leather that I covered the dash in. The old chairs were full of cat holes they weren't matching and they weren't that comfortable anymore. I'm getting ready to replace the shocks which is well worth it because while the old ones still work they porpoise a little and I don't care for that. I'm hoping that the koni fsds will give me the ride that I'm looking for.
I look at it as this is my home and that's how it makes financial sense to me. This would never make financial sense to me if I wasn't full-timing as I just don't have the funds to have a 60 to $100,000 part-time toy. I guess if I spent a winter at a base home and the summer traveling or vice versa it would kind of make sense but one thing I know about these coaches is that they don't like to sit it will cost you more money to not use it then to use it hard. Since it's my home I'll put the amount of money into it that I have to in order to keep it running until I get to a point where it's not financially viable anymore and then I'll figure out something else. I expect maybe five to six more years in this and then I'll pass it on to someone looking for a good coach with a good deal and at that point maybe start traveling the world instead of just the US, Canada, and Mexico.
I probably do it sooner but I can't take a hundred pound German Shepherd around the world with me easily so I will wait for his life cycle to end before I think about it further.
the other thing I think is that when you buy one of these coaches unless you really do have a big pile of money in the bank and investments it's best if you do your own work whenever you can or get help. Paying people $125 to $150 an hour to do stuff that you can really do yourself with the right tools and knowledge from people on the forums that have already done it makes it cost effective for me. But physically we all reach a point where it may be quite impossible to get up on the roof safely, get under the coach safely and then be able to get back up or to get a torque down nut and bolt undone and then at that point I think I would have to spend the money to get it presentable and then pass it on. Maybe at that point by a sprinter van and just pay somebody to keep it up and the maintenance would be a lot less.
But in the end I think that only you can decide what's enough. I think that we have to be really wary though of reading things on the forums and thinking that our coach needs it too. for instance taking out the steering box and having it rebuilt. Yeah there's a little bit of play in my steering and I'm sure that it would benefit from that, but that doesn't mean I need to run out and do it right now. I may never do it I may just live with it. As long as it's not a safety item or something that is prone to failure it doesn't necessarily have to be done. But all these parts have a finite lifespan and we'll have to be replaced at some point if not more than once.

I think the answer to where you draw the line is different for each person. Some people get angry when they need to repair/replace parts or a system. Some people look at this as a challenge and enjoy doing the repairs themselves. Some people are blessed with the technological skills to be able to do the repairs themselves. Others are not so lucky. Some people have deep pockets and don't even blink when it comes to paying for repairs. Others are not so lucky. To me the time to draw the line is when the problems are more than I can handle and never seem to stop. There does come a time when the happiness of owning something vintage is overcome with the constant anger/frustration that comes with the never ending maintenance costs. I have personally given away vehicles to other people just to get rid of  cursed machines. I owned a 1977 Ford Ranger that had 330,000 miles on it. I gave it to my grandson for his first vehicle. It is still running today. A great machine. I miss that truck. I have owned machines that were cursed and were a constant financial drain on me. I also have had vehicles that required very little maintenance and were always reliable. These reliable machines I have owned I kept and did whatever maintenance was required because the knowledge of driving a vehicle I could depend on was priceless. As we age we can look back at the vehicles we have owned and remember the wonderful ones with  a happy heart and also remember the cursed vehicles that we were glad to get rid of. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, dispose of a cursed vehicle, and start all over again. Realizing that you can go forward with the lessons learned the hard/expensive way and not make the same mistake again. Before I ever purchase a vehicle, I go to Google, type in the name of the vehicle and then add the word "review" after it. Some one some where will be kind enough to put their experiences with that particular vehicle online for others to read. Good,bad,indifferent, you will be able to get some kind of idea what you will be in for should you decide to purchase a vehicle after reading information put out there by other people. This Foretravel that I own is my third RV. My first RV was a Ford class C. It was a piece of #$&@. I paid 3500 for it and the guy who sold it to me smiled and waved as I drove this rolling wreck down the road dropping nuts and bolts on the road on my way home. I was foolish enough to pay for a brand new engine and also pay to have it installed. The guy who installed the new engine screwed me by not putting in  a brand new starter, instead he re installed the old faulty starter. I could start the engine once, then After shutting it off I would have to wait at least an hour before I could start it again. Lotsa fun if I stopped for fuel and mistakenly shut it off at the pumps. The electrical system was faulty so at night my running lights would blink on and off like I was sending emergency Morse code to fellow travelers on the road. Then I discovered the roof leaked along the seams after I had redone the interior. What can I say it was a labor of love. I finally gave it away to  a friend of mine who sold it to his nephew.  On the way home they had to jack up the engine to gain access to the starter. When they stopped for gas and shut off the engine, they had to replace the starter at that moment in time when it decided to finally die. I smiled thankful that I had disposed of that RV at the right time. I had a really nice black Dodge 4 wheel drive pickup. My wife parked it under an apple tree. A storm arrived while I was at work and came crashing down on the hood, fender and windshield. Insurance wanted me to file with my home owners insurance. I explained to them that the tree was on the other side of the fence line on my neighbors land. Then they wanted me to accept a small destroyed  vehicle payment for it. I told them I was going to keep the vehicle and repair it. They gave me enough money to be able to repair it. Instead I used the money for a new furnace for the house, then sold it to  a friend of mine for a thousand dollars. you win some you lose some. My second RV was a 89 Toyota with 79,000 miles on it that I paid 12,000 dollars for. WAAAYYYYYYY to much money. (Sadly I lower my head in embarrassment).I still own it. There is nothing wrong with it. I plan to pretty it up and try to sell it this spring after people receive their tax refund money. I added two thousand dollars maintenance costs to it since I purchased it. I doubt I will be able to get 14,000 dollars out of it when I sell it. I bought the Foretravel because my wife is claustrophobic and cant deal with the tiny Toyota. I wish she had told me of her problem before I bought it. What ever I get from selling it will be put in the bank and be used only for any maintenance costs of driving the Foretravel in the future. The knowledge of having financial resources to deal with any potential breakdowns with the Foretravel will make my RV travels more enjoyable for me as I roll down the highway. I did my research before buying my Foretravel. I was blessed enough to be able to find an RV with a motor with only 40,000 miles on it, a new transmission with only 3000 miles on it. This coach has a new generator, a new fridge, a new water heater, new shocks and new tires. The roof does not leak. There are two original air conditioners in the roof I anticipate will need replacing at some time in the future. But for now they still work fine. I got lucky this time, not like the first RV I purchased. What can I tell you. The answer to when enough is enough depends on you. When you throw your hands up in the air and say I've had it, no more, thats when enough is enough. You bow your head, accept defeat, do the best you can in the situation and then just move on, stronger and wiser. I hope these words can help others when they contemplate their situation. I have a cartoon at home. There are two guys standing there. One of them is pointing to  a humungous RV. The proud owner says this thing gets five miles to the gallon, the wind blows it all over the road, my wife hates it because it costs me at least  a thousand dollars every time it needs  work, but what the hell I love the hell outa it. I see myself in that cartoon. I also see many other RV owners in that cartoon. Reminds me of a sign  I saw at  a boat ramp. "A boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money." I think  we could all identify a little with this sign.  Best of luck to whatever you decide to do.

With the pandemic and new business we don't go anywhere. Our FT just goes for jogging to keep her in shape. She is parked inside and I use it like a music studio (trying to play my guitar) She is in fully functioning mode and we use its kitchen quite a bit. So she is like our backyard shed/tree house. When the pandemic started I wanted to sell her (my wife did not) Well after spending 4 hour with a tire kicker couple and few low ball offers on the phone, I stooped. I can't stand the process of selling anything. When I am going to buy something, I do my own homework and respectfully make my offer and if the answer is yes I buy and move on. I purchased our current FT in about 50 minutes. One before that was in about 90 minutes. They both turned out just fine and some.
So where do you draw the line: If you are using it and can use it, if you can mentality and financially deal with it.
I still believe what a Foretravel Motor home does for travel and camping is not matched (for my requirements / all others I cannot afford)
With pandemic and some of the pass stories I have heard, lately I am thinking, if I or a family member gets sick and we need to be in and around a hospital a lot then I would like to have our FT more then ever. So if not for nothing I am keeping her just to keep her. Unless someone just walks up and shakes my hand for a honest deal, then I will let her go.  Do what makes you happy, I know< sometime it is not easy to figure it out. Good luck.

This is a very individual question that we all have to answer for ourselves.

When we started full timing we had a gas motorhome but I knew I wanted a quality diesel pusher for long term.  Prevost, Newell, Bluebird Wanderlodge and Foretravel were on my short list.  We bought our 2001 U270 from MOT in December 2007.  Had a few things changed like tile flooring instead of carpet and some other minor things and off we went.  We lived and traveled in her for 12 years, 110,000 miles- great times.  Some years we had just annual service, other years more.  Sometimes we did things to upgrade to make our coach more comfortable, Like MCD shades throughout the coach- after all she was our home too.  There were times we needed to find a shop for repairs, always found something and new adventures too.  When Karen decided it was time to come off the road and settle down, I always had it in my head that we would sell the coach rather than let her sit unused and unappreciated.

I am happy to say that Wendy now is full timing in her and hope she has many years of good adventures with her.

As one of our forum members , Dave Metzger , always said- " do what makes you happy."        ^.^d

This question was just too good for me to leave it alone.

I recall the gambling banners I believe I saw in Las Vegas -- "When the fun stops ...".

We're $50-60K in on repairs and upgrades on our $32K 1997.  It had what Brett Wolfe refers to as "deferred maintenance".  We haven't stopped yet and don't plan to.  For us, there is no line (yet).  The problem is that each repair is mostly in the $100-1000 range.  If someone had told us up front that the purchase price on this motorhome is $32K, but you'll spend another $60K on it in the next three years, we probably would have passed -- but only probably.  All RVs are compromises in price, building materials, space, power, driveability, comfort, etc.  I feel like the original purchaser of ours said, "we want it all".  Most Foretravels are like that.  We had $140-160K budgeted for a ten-year-old Monaco/American Coach/Newmar motorhome, but ended up with our $32K (+60K) 24-year-old.  I feel like we got a much better value.

RVing is a bad idea.  Why would you spend thousands of dollars to leave your comfortable home behind?  Think you'll save on hotels?  Not really.  RV sites are expensive.  I try to talk my friends out of it.  Everything starts out great, but then the annoyances set in with the constant maintenance.  The original purchaser bought my Foretravel at the same time I bought my house.  He paid 3x what I did -- on my house!  That seems over "the line" for me, but not for them.  RVing is for people who have to RV.  We're two of those.

If you have to RV and are handy with tools, an older Foretravel is not a bad option.  It gives me the chills when someone finds a $6K Foretravel and then asks if that's a good deal.  Not for me.  But, for almost all of those buyers, they are having the time of their lives.  $380K (1997 dollars) and $6K aren't a good match for me.  I'm somewhere in between. 

Where do I draw the line?  I'll let you know when I get there.  It'll happen when I grudge spending more money on our Foretravel.

Unless you run into bad luck or buy a bad coach, diesel fuel and insurance will probably be the major expenses. Each time I plug in the Pro-Link, I can't help but multiplying the gallons used by $2 or $3 per gallon. That's a lot of $$.

For a lot of us, there is no need to spend a fortune at RV parks. With a Access or Senior Pass, it's only about $11/night at the campgrounds we go to and with so much BLM land in the West, you don't have to pay anything. That's the biggest reason we went solar years ago. No need for the generator either.

Add up the cost of a motel that takes dogs, has mattresses without bedbugs plus the stress of finding one, and the RV lifestyle is not expensive. The longer your trip is, the less you pay per night for RV related expenses.

More than once have we found needles outside our motel room, heard fights next door between a pimp and his girl. Motels are not what they used to be.

Pierce

One of the reasons we bought a 20 year old FT is because we were tired of sinking time and money into our brand new 5th wheel. I know, it seems counter intuitive but I eventually came to the realization that one day we were going to get off the road and I would have what is essentially a cardboard and foam box sitting in the driveway. I just couldn't bring myself to keep dumping precious resources (time & money) into something that would eventually be just another one of those old, crappy 5ers that you can hardly give away.

I have since sunk more than twice that much money in the FT and it hasn't bothered me nearly as much. I can see and feel the value in what I paid for, and if the day comes where we get off the road, I'll have a badass coach sitting in the driveway ready to hit the ground running.

I like to run roads .. I can't sleep in a unfamiliar bed or surroundings.. Kind of narrows it down for me.

Here, here!

If you're not feeling bad about it and the fun hasn't stopped -- no matter how you're counting it -- you haven't crossed the line.  You crossed the line on the 5th wheel and didn't feel good about it anymore.

It's very individual.

Pierce, I _do_ think you can save money by RVing as a fulltimer or near fulltimer.  That's just not the crowd I run with for another three years (not that I'm counting).  I just don't think you can buy a $50K towable and stay in RV parks while saving money on hotels.  The math just isn't there.

Dub, I _love_ sleeping in my own bedroom on my own mattress.

A $50K towable with an even more expensive PU and if the PU is a Ford diesel and it blows a headgasket, that's $7500 here in CA at the Ford dealer plus another $4500 a week later when an injector goes down. Was just off warranty. My only neighbor is a sharp guy but I had to listen to him rage for a half hour.

We spent $21,500 over 12 years ago and have not looked back. It's long ago paid for itself and has made traveling anywhere affordable. I too like the idea that no one else has been sleeping in our bed the night before. Time for tires now but the stimulus check will more than pay for those with $ left over for my dental in PP.

On a couple of times at $40/nt RV parks, the rest of the time COE, Natl Parks, Forest service or BLM. Puerto Peñasco at $170/wk won't break the bank and if you walk through the big resort hotels and grab a towel, the pool is yours.  :)) Nice to have a color printer on board to get the colors on the plastic wrist bands correct.

Anyone watch Benidorm on Britbox? Benidorm S1 - Comedy | BritBox (https://www.britbox.com/us/show/Benidorm_p080chc6)

Pierce

My wife loves our 21 year old coach, our dog gets excited at the sound of the engine starting. I love driving it and relaxing at a new destination. We bought the coach for a good price and have redone just about everything we wanted to do and repaired things it was better to do before they quit. We are at the top end of what it's worth on the open market.
To balance that, we are down to two cars, no boat, no second house, paid my last college bill, kids in theory have left home (but back, thanks Covid)
We relax in our coach, we go in it week ends and for longer trips throughout the year in lieu of flying to expensive resorts.
It's good value, it's a value that gives us happiness, it's also a math equation.
If you don't use it, If it's constantly costing money, if your circumstances change, you might want to divest or down size, or quit the RV life style and try something else.
We all have different wants and tolerances, enjoy your Foretravel while you can.
David

As I have stated before, an RV is a depreciating asset!  We have owned 5th wheels, Class C and two diesel pushers.  The carrying capacity and shear strength of the diesel pusher is why we have one today.  Lots to learn and break down, but the chance of seeing our great country is priceless!  And like Dub, sleeping in our own bed is marvelous!