I'm thinking about buying an older used Foretravel and there are a couple in particular that I may be interested in. One is a 2000 model GV320 listed in the classifieds here and another is a 02' model U295 listed on RV trader.
Am I allowed to link the posts here to get some opinions on these two coaches? Answer was yes. Links below.
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2002-Foretravel-U295-5015544668
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2000-Foretravel-GRAND-VILLA-4000-GV320-5016085506
(that one isn't pink, just not good pictures:)
The U295 isn't this one, I hope Looking at 2002 U 295 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41680.0)
Not that one, I haven't seen that one. It's the one in Kentucky with extremely low mileage. (and extremely high price tag:)
Thanks, I added them to the original post.
The U295 could be a real gem if it's truly in as good of shape as stated. The 2500hrs on the generator doesn't line up with the stated usage/miles though. 2002 had a one-off slide mechanism that's known for "slide creep" so you'll want to search the forum for that and understand how to identify it. Plan on new airbags if that wasn't part of the work recently done.
I can't tell if that has the M11... the pully/alternator/etc.. configuration is certainly different than my 2001 if it is indeed an M11.
If it's a non-M11/Aqua Hot coach, $95k is very high in my opinion.
295 will not have the M11.
I didn't realize that, I thought it was something that could have been optioned
I've asked about the Aqua-Hot, the guy selling it isn't the owner and doesn't know if it has it but he's going to check. I don't know what the M11 is but evidently it's not available in this year/model.
Regardless, the price is way out of line IMO, but it might be something that I decide to make an offer on.
It looks like it does NOT have an Aqua Hot. If it did, there would be a third exhaust pipe extruding from slightly behind the front left wheel.
M11 aka 450 ISM is the bigger Cummins engine that was available in the U320 (which is a step up in trim level from the U295)
M11 is the 11 liter Cummins engine. Depending on year, in the 450-500 HP range. Paired with the Allison 4000 transmission.
The 295, again depending on year came with the Cummins C (8.3 liter) or L (8.9 liter) with Allison 3000 transmission.
All are very good powertrains.
Good catch on those. Genset would benefit from preventative bearing replacement if not already done. A failed bearing can get pricey.
Has a propane furnace, not an AquaHot.
Likely has the original slide bladders, which are most likely in need of replacement at 20 years old.
Can't tell if it has the air-operated auto-awning (a 2002 year only option). If so, nearly everyone who's had that had chronic issues with it and replaced it with a manual one $.
There is some brown staining that was wiped away on the floor of the water pump bay. Can't tell for sure, but it looks like pretty heavy rust on what I think is one of the steel blocks in that photo - under the manabloc. The bottom of the manibloc cover is also stained a slightly rusty color. I'd be concerned about the basement structure if there are signs of a undetected water leak.
Don't forget that tires age out. It doesn't matter how few miles might be on them.
Seems overpriced - seller is likely focused on the low mileage and not being realistic about that not being a selling point (but perhaps a detractor - an engine, transmission, differential, and wheel bearings that have sat, going through multiple seasons of condensation cycles with out getting run, lubricated, and warm, could have hidden issues).
The listing indicates that he replaced slide bladder, all new tires and batteries, ect.
You're the 2nd person to comment on the rust in the photos. I appreciate that because I wouldn't have given that small amount of rust a second look but I guess it can lead to serious and expensive problems in that area?
I agree that they must be "adding value" due to the extreme low mileage but it should detract value. I'd much rather buy that same coach if had been driven 3,000 miles a year than 300. I've stopped paying attention to price on some RV listings at this point as many seem to be pulled from thin air.
A dealership in my region has a 2005 coach of another premium brand listed for $85,000. I sent them an email and said I might be interested at a little more realistic price and they emailed back a purchase agreement with selling price of $22,000 less ($63k). It's a bit of a joke really. I guess the dealers do it so that they can show massive trade values and then some private sellers look at these dealer listings and just copy the pricing.
18 months ago I spoke to the owner's son about the coach with interest to purchase. They had just completed 20 K worth of repairs. It did include a new bladder seal for the slide. They had a portable water line to the toilet failed and caused water damage to the flooring. I think they were planning to use for themselves and realize they were in over their head. I never went looked at it in person was overpriced in my opinion. But I'm frugal.
Scott
All messages have been about the 02'. Any thoughts on the 2000 model GV320? I thought that one might actually stir up more conversation that the 2002...
Lots of oxidation on the roof and water damage on the passenger side wall. Looks like the window is compromised above it. Obvious signs of rats/mice in the engine bay. Rust on the feet of the house battery tray... probably from the drains there leaking but makes one worry about the bulk heads.
Nothing that'd scare me off completely but it shows obvious signs of neglect. I am now of the believe that you're likely going to inherit a bunch of problems even on a coach that presents really well, so I wouldn't even consider one like this.
Motorhomes of Texas in Nacogdoches is a great place for all things FT. You can see a bunch of them in place. It would be a great education.
I don't see the obvious signs of rat/mouse damage in the engine bay? I see what appears to be damage to the insulation in a location that may have been caused by a belt snapping and hitting it.
Is the rust on the feet of the battery really a big concern/indicator of bigger problems? I used to sell semi trailers so I know about rust jacking, but they spent their lives heavily coated in salt/snow/slush/slop. All of the underside photos of this coach that I've seen looked pretty damn clean. It seems to me like it'd be odd to have major structural rust damage on a coach that doesn't even have rust on the underbody iron. I can't imagine that a freshwater leak originating inside the coach could cause it.
You say that you're now of the belief that you're likely to inherit a bunch of problems, even on a coach that presents well. Maybe I'm just totally oblivious to the reality of RV ownership, but this seems to indicate a serious lack of quality or many inherent design flaws in said coach.
If you have to go in anticipating that a $50,000 coach needs $20,000 in repairs out of the gate and then costs $10,000 a year just to keep it on the road, maybe I need to reevaluate just how badly I want an RV to take a few short road trips a month with. I might want to look into just chartering private jets for those getaways, lol.
Since they are selling Foretravels, where are the bulkhead photos? I don't seen even one. You need at least 4 of the bulkheads and a couple showing if there are any bulges in the plastic bottom. Remember Don's perfect coach that needed all the steel replaced. Deep water in hurricanes, flooding, treated roads are all a possibility. Has the water tank fitting leaked or the overflow used draining on the bottom of the coach many times.
Pierce
On the 2000, the owner sent me a file containing 156 photos taken during a survey/inspection a few months back. I didn't see anything alarming at all but I'm not well versed in this issue so don't know if I'd recognize the issue unless it was really evident.
Is this rotted bulkhead problem unique to Foretravel? I don't think I've seen much discussion of it elsewhere.
I saw the two larger spots. Thought they might be due belts breaking since they looked to be directly in the line of fire, never crossed my mind that it could be from mice chewing on things.
If everything is working correctly on the coach, is there still serious concern about hidden rat/mouse damage?
I can't think of why there would be. I had some rats wreak havoc on my 5th wheel but it was ultimately just a nuisance tracking down the wires and strings they chewed through. And they killed my hydroponic garden, I'm still sour about that.
There are several reasons for bulkhead or bottom tubing damage and have been covered in many old posts. Please check out the archives for the articles.
And no, I can't think of any other brands that have a bulkhead like ours. Be aware and get another experienced owner to look at it with you.
Many other things that are very positive for Foretravels but even the sellers may not be aware of problems. I don't have much respect for buyers who later blame the PO for problems they should have been aware off and looked for. That is what this forum and years of archives is great for.
Pierce
You might be surprised to see how much damage can be caused by a small freshwater leak originating inside the coach.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it cause damage to things like flooring and maybe even sidewalls. But if a small freshwater leak caused structural failure to the framework of a half million dollar coach I'd be completely shocked and question the material quality of the coach. A half million dollar coach should last a very long time and should be structurally impervious to a trickle of fresh water dripping on it.
The lowest face of any coach is a gridwork of steel with foam or other insulation between, skinned at the underside with thin panels. A leak occurring anywhere in the coach migrates to this bottom plane and has nowhere to go - it sits in the bottom plane, causing the steel framing to rust.
Tiffin is well-known for wet bay rot. Am seeing a number of posts of either Newmar or Entegra (maybe both) with similar issues. The water of a leak gets trapped in the structure and has no way to drain.
Believe it or not, it happens. Foretravel is not the only coach with this problem. See the post linked below (Reply #8) for some eye-opening examples:
Bulkhead solution? (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41947.msg419326#msg419326)
As for the 2002 slide being different, our 2002 was worked on multiple times at MOT and FOT but was still unreliable. We finally made a trip to HWH in Moscow IA and for almost no money other than the fuel to get there it worked flawlessly for the remaining years we owned the coach.
I'm thinking of taking our 2003 there just to get them to go through their systems.
Rick if you do call ahead a month before. I had an appointment there this month on the way up to New England but my plans totally changed so we'll have to reschedule. But I know what my problem is it's the front six pack leaking and I have the repair kit I just got to get to it.
I have seen it written that one gets two 6 packs (favorite adult beverage) for overhauling one HWH 6 pack.
Seems freasonable to me.