Just travelled from Nacogdoches to Albuquerque no problem. Stopped for fuel near son's house and then drove one mile and parked for a week. Leaving to visit a State Park I could make no power leaving the neighborhood. With the accelerator floored was barely making 25 to 30 mph. Went back a few blocks and changed my primary and secondary fuel filters. Filters looked fine and the new filters are not making any difference. Parked in driveway.
Considering Rocky Mountain Cummins coach care center which is about 7 miles away. Can limp there on side streets. They aren't answering the phone. Getting ready to check air filter.
1997 Cummins C8.3 mechanical with 85,000 miles. Have been driving a lot in last two months with no problems.
Check the rubber boots and clamps on the air charger if you haven't.
How does it start and idle? Smoothly? Possible lift pump partially failed. Does your Cummins have a fuel solenoid that may be stuck? Did you cut open the filters to check for contamination?
Pierce
Have a compression brake? Make sure it is not activated. I had the same issue three times. Twice it was towd wiring activating the brake lights and Jake brake. One time, I was resting my left foot on the activator pedal - I won't comment on how long it took me to figure THAT out!
Another incident - the chassis battery connection was loose. The 8.3 apparently did not require battery to operate, but the accelerator did.
Here is hoping it is already fixed!
Possible fuel line fault allowing air in the system. Check for cracks in the hose where it has a clamp. How does your generator run with your AC on?
P
Could also be air getting in around changed out fuel filters
When in neutral does engine rev up to red line?
This is one time you wished Foretravel would put a boost gauge on their engines.
1998 engine is computer controlled or still mechanical? If computer, now also would be a good time to have a silverleaf monitor.
This engine is mechanical, 12 valve. No compression brake, retarder. Disconnected toad and no change in performance. Generator pulling34 amps with both ac and running smoothly.
Semi Truck, Bus, RV, Service Vehicle Cruise Control Installation (http://www.cruisecontrolking.com/)
Check the throttle position return springs on the throttle,2 3/8th's diameter springs about 8 inches long,on the passenger side
near the middle of the engine,the ends have a habit of wearing out, Lowes has them in stock.
Karen and I will be coming thru Albuquerque day after tomorrow and will check on you then.. Glad you have a son in town. Make that Friday morning. Hope your fixed and rolling before then but if not we may see you.
Could be the king cruise control. Check that your brake lights work. Also was any work done to the coach while it was parked?
Brake lights work. No work on coach of a mechanical sort.
Repeating Turbojack's question........... does the engine rev up in neutral under no load condition?
Sure sounds like it's starving for fuel.
You had no issues before filling up with fuel?
What you are describing is the same as a typical King Control Throttle failure. I have had that happen to my coach maybe a dozen times during the last five years. Many other owners of Foretravel, Monaco and Country Coach rigs have experienced and are experiencing the same. In each of my instances, the problem resolved itself. Let's hope that is also your experience.
You can check now to determine if it is, indeed, the King. With the engine running, raise the bed and grab the throttle lever which is attached to the block with two springs (passenger side of engine). Pull the throttle to rev the engine. If you get normal response than I'm betting the King is the problem
If you want to learn about it, there are a number of threads here and on other forums that discuss the King issue. The problem is that the King is obsolete so when the circuit board finally gives it up, we are out of luck. I've found a couple of guys that have replaced the King with an air throttle and one member here that replaced his with an hydraulic throttle.
.
jor
Rocky Mountain Cummins coach care center in Albuquerque did fine with my previous Bluebird - and have a couple of sites for "camping".
I've had air chargers split and it would keep the truck at 55 max that's why I mentioned boots first which is the luckiest culprit.. thing is it can be anyone of the things listed above. At the least Patrick will have a list to offer a shop foreman which with my luck would piss off the Foreman. I would be forced to do that right after it appeared they were on a snipe hunt. I hope it's simple and it certainly can be.
I have had with the problem with the King. I believe if the brake lights come on the King
will only give 1/3 throttle also. Do what Jor said that is a simple way to trouble shoot it.
If one of the boots come off the intake air line you won't have any power.
I've looked over the boots on the turbo and air intake. They appear okay. Going to replace the air filter and then do the throttle test. Throttle springs look okay. Looks like we will lose our camp reservations Fortunately we are back in son's driveway.
Most likely the fuel shutoff solenoid is hanging up and not allowing the fuel rack to fully open. It's happened to me. You can disconnect the solenoid and tie wrap it fully open to get full power. Everything will be normal except to shut down you have to cut the tie wrap.
No the Cummins 8.3. If it has any kind of engine brake (more likely to have the transmission retarder), it would have an EXHAUST BRAKE.
But equally important to verify that the butterfly is OPEN.
If the pacbrake is stuck closed you would bellow black smoke like a coal factory.
Sounds like a possible fuel filter clogged up. I had a tank of crud to work through and each time the filter clogged I would lose power like that. Easy thing to try. It also sounds like a stuck PAC brake but you said it doesn't have one...
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Update:
1: cut open both fuel filters and did not find them clogged. They appeared normal to me for miles, etc.
2. the air filter was dirty, carefully cleaned air cleaner box and reinserted air cleaner. Called two truck parts places and they don't have Donaldson or the Baldwin crossover. Reinstalled to continue with testing. What other air filters would you trust to replace the Donaldson? P148043.
3. I found two wires on the top of the engine intake that are broken. They are attached to two different sensors. At this time I don't know what they do. There are a pair of sensors on either side of the air coming into engine from CAC. One of those pairs is disconnected via broken wire. The wire connects the two sensors. The second sensor connects to both of those sensors via a small tube. This sensor also has a broken wire. Need help identifying these parts as to function.
I wonder if the broken wires are shiny-
Chewed on by rats/mouses?
Top arrow pointing to the broken wire is your intake air temperature fuel solenoid
The right arrow points to the fuel solenoid which only is used for cold weather starting, below
freezing. Doug's posting is all about the system so if you use your coach in the cold it is a
good thing to know.
It appears to be the fuel shutoff solenoid. I've ordered an aftermarket solenoid from Amazon that will get here Saturday, $35 vs. $567 with Cummins. they would also have to ship it as none are available in New Mexico. Cummins has an updated solenoid with new bracket, at that price differential going with aftermarket. I test drove the engine and it was still low on power after fixing broken wires and confirming that the King Throttle was giving me full throttle. Stopped during my test drive and manually activated the fuel shut off solenoid and my power returned to normal in subsequent test drive. As Twig suggested, it was not opening fully.
FYI: new Cummins part no.: 4089574. Original number from Quickserve was 3919422 for my serial number. That's the part number I cross referenced. If it works I will probably order a second for a spare.
Thanks all for your assistance.
We do use our coach in the cold, so it will be interesting to see how my coach starts in the cold now after fixing the broken wires.
The reason I asked if the wires were shiny, would be freshly cut wire would not have oil/debris on it and would be another issue.
When I had a 8.3 engine it would start on the first revaluation down to freezing and
after that it was hard starting. I find the M11 starts better in the cold.
For future reference check out Larry B's products on Ebay,he has a fuel solenoid and other parts.
Perhaps it's because of the heated screen in cold weather. The warmer it is, the faster any diesel will start unless there is a fault in the fuel system.
Pierce
The M11 takes a few revaluations to start any time because of the
ECU and it starts down to 15F and colder than that I push the ether
button.
Wires on either side of intake manifold input air pipe on our coach are for 12volt intake pre-heater (wait to start dash light)
Sorry you are having this problem.
We have same problem with two separate different component failures, not at same time.
Fuel shut off solenoid sticking and not fully opening.
Temp fix is to manually pull up fuel solenoid and hold in full open position with cable ties. Cut cable ties to stop engine.
King throttle control
If tail light brake bulb filaments are broken (brake light not working) King may go into limp mode allowing low RPM driving.
One diagnostic is with bed held open, drive with manual pull up of throttle injector lever to eliminate King throttle.
I hope that the new fuel shut off is the problem and corrected with the new unit. I replaced my shut off years ago, and be very careful attempting to get the old bracket off the engine. 3 tiny bolts, and easy to break off. Don't ask me how I know and how long it took to resolve.
And as suggested the test of the manual moving of the throttle with the bed up. I got worried about the King throttle control failing. As a precaution I just last month built a manual hand feed set up. It is a no stretch line from the throttle, up over the foot of the bed, and forward. I put a spacer on the bed platform to allow the line to feed and return freely. Then I drilled my 5' bed safety support pole with a thru hole at the bottom, to tie to the floor accelerator foot feed. Then up from 3' to 4' I pre-drilled a number of holes for the line. The test was to see if I could with the new "hand stick" see if I could control the engine speed and feel I could drive to safety off the highway. It worked well. So now my safety bed support has an attached coiled long line, and the short line for tying to the foot feed. Now I cross my fingers. If it ever is needed, it's a couple of minutes to rig and get going on the road again.
With both hands needed for the steering wheel, a manual throttle cable pull lever should be foot controlled. We drove for over a week with a wooden foot throttle board.
With my 1995 8.3, I also have experienced this loss of power. At first, mine was intermittent, usually after stopping to fuel and then trying to go on down the road. Changed filters just like you. And like Barry & Cindy, I had more than one component failure before becoming an "expert" on this fuel system. The first (intermittent) failure was the solenoid shutoff valve. Just like you, I replaced it with an "aftermarket" model when I got tired of using baling wire to hold the valve open and needing to raise the bed and unwrap this "fix' to shutdown. The second failure was a broken lift pump. I replaced it, but unknowingly broke it during installation but did not learn of this until after replacing the fuel lines and pestering every knowledgeable person on this wonderful site. (I did not know that this engine could run without a working lift pump.) I have also had the King cruise control rebuilt and installed that extra brake line and replaced the air/electric valves up near the windshield fluid reservoir. And replaced the flow control valve (under the air conditioner, how inconvenient!) and installed a fuel flow meter to constantly monitor delivery to the engine. I live north of Taos. Pissed off many drivers who followed me on single-lane transfer ramps and mountain roads until I got all this figured out and fixed. Good luck to you.
I've replaced the fuel shut off and the coach has full power. I ran it about 15 miles down I25 at 65 mph. Climbed a hill going south with no problem. However, it doesn't want to turn off. I have to turn the key off twice or more times to get it to shut off. I had to swap out the eye bolt from old to new solenoid because the new one was too small to slide over the fuel shut off butterfly valve. Any suggestions on how to diagnosis or adjust? Making progress but still more or less stuck in Albuquerque.
I've lengthened the eyebolt twice and now it shuts down. Going to take it for another run to see if it makes full power. How long after turning off key is normal shut down. Seems like it is taking 1 to 1.5 seconds to shut off.
See Section A, Page 38 in Cummins Manual for correct adjustment.
Cummins_8.3_Manual (1).pdf - Google 云端硬盘 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uhr37cbY8CEumpmoyDJ9VHwlCP1D_pbx/view?usp=drivesdk)
This is a video of the replacement of the shutoff valve on an rv:
https://youtu.be/6rNawg7pTgw
This is another video, the 5.9 used the same shut off valve, and so this video shows a good "how to" of this shutoff valve replacement.
https://youtu.be/Hxgvejdomao
Thanks. Just ran down the I25 again and it has power and turns off. We are hitting the road again!
I didn't have good knowledge, but I have been listening. Glad you are back at it!
FYI, On our engine, the ONLY thing that stops engine from running is to turn off fuel flow.
Fuel shut off solenoid has two internal coils (3-wires: two hot, one ground):
ignition-on to energize small coil, but not enough to move solenoid to open fuel flow
engine-start to energize big coil to move solenoid up to open fuel flow
after engine is started, big coil is de-energized, but small coil will continue to "hold" solenoid up and keep fuel flowing
turn ignition off, small coil is de-energized and fuel shut off solenoid spring will push solenoid down to turn fuel OFF
No reason to be stuck if fuel solenoid fails:
Diagnose by manually forcing solenoid up to open fuel with cable tie. If engine then runs you have a temporary fix.
Cut cable tie to stop engine. This temporary fix can be repeated indefinitely. Fuel solenoid can be reached from an open rear engine door.
When I had a Monaco the fuel solenoid quit so I rigged up a spring to
hold the fuel shut off on and then rigged a pull rope to shut off the
engine. It worked great until I got a new fuel solenoid.
Good news. Run to our campsite at Manzano Mountain State Park successful. I owe the help and wisdom of this incredible forum a great deal. Couldn't do this without my Foretravel neighborhood. Thank you Barry for the additional information on how this solenoid works. It felt like I had a bit of additional power going up hills.
Good to hear that Patrick.