Went to RV and found the batteries dead. So dead that even the generator would not start. Got some charge into the batteries and a few hours later the generator was up and running. Left the generator to pump juice for 3 hours and went home. Went back and turned the generator off. Battery voltage above 12.5 V.
Went outside and now have a hissing sound coming from high up the bedroom slide. So, do I have a leak, which keeps the compressor running which then kills the batteries. What to do? What to do?
If you have a slide seal where you hear the hissing you most likely have a leak. Get some soapy water or bubble solution and spray it on the area and see if you get bubbles. About 3 coach bucks to fix when I had mine done 2 years ago at FOT. Good luck and let us know what you find out.
Oscar
If batteries are not being charged, ALL loads need to be turned off to prevent discharging and damaging batteries. Best way to assure this is to disconnect battery cable maybe with high amp switch. Nothing else will work as it is almost impossible to find all battery drains.
Hi Oscar
I haven't had a chance to make it back to the RV to see if the batteries are once again discharged. Fortunately, the hissing is loud enough that I think I'll be able to find it by getting on a ladder and using your suggestion for some soapy water. Come to think of it, I did see a wood pecker sitting on the tree just behind the bus. I wonder if wood peckers like rubber!
If I can't easily find the leak, it may be time to buy an ultrasonic detector. For example,
INFICON Whisper, Ultrasonic Leak Detector, 711-202-G1: Ultrasonic Measure:... (https://www.amazon.com/INFICON-711-202-G1-Whisper-Ultrasonic-Detector/dp/B000TRJA8M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=ultrasonic+air+leak+detector&qid=1622894896&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyR1YyUlYyT1hRUFFUJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzkwNDk1MjJFMlJOT0w0VDNUJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MzYwMzdVSEVFM0pLMjlCVzkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl)
Once I find the leak, what would be recommended to fix it?
Since you have a similar coach to mine, do you or someone in this wonderful forum know where the relay that powers the air solenoid valve to the bedroom slide is located? I'm going to need to turn power off to that solenoid until I get the problem fixed.
I wonder if another possibility is that the air solenoid for the bedroom slide has failed, such that it is deflating the bladder while the coach is pumping air, in an attempt to keep it sealed! Now, the trick is going to be to find where that solenoid is located!
Hi Barry & Cindy,
It is fortunate that this air leak happened now. This is because I'm in the planning process for replacing both the chassis and house batteries. Now more than ever, I'm convinced that I need to add a "battery protect" for use with my planned new house batteries, just in case this type of failure happens again.
Not sure what to do for the chassis batteries. As you suggest, a high amperage manual switch would work with the chassis batteries, but it probably would only get used after the leak is first noticed. That is, you would want power from the chassis ON most of the time so the air bags and slide seals are kept inflated, correct?
Peter,
Don't forget that the boost switch can be your friend. If your house batteries are too flat to start the generator, the boost switch will allow you to engage the chassis batteries to effect a generator start.
Richard
Peter - in my coach the solenoids are in the 1st bay under the salon slide on the driver's side.
There are manual valves on the air lines that go to the slide seals just to the right of the inverter in this picture. Same compartment as where your 12v compressor and all the HWH controllers are.
Oscar, Bruce and Linda,
Thanks for the info. But, believe it or not, I have another minor complication. ::)
When I bought the coach, there was only one key for the storage compartments. Yes, guess what. It didn't take me long to break the key in one of the locks. The moral of the story here is to make multiple copies of as many coach keys as used and to lubricate the locks before working them too hard.
I have not figured out yet which replacement key I need to purchase for my storage locks. I contacted FT, but they do not have information for that old coach and locks. I was told I can take the lock apart and figure out which key I will need, but I have not had time to work on that. Supposedly, there is a number for the required key on the lock mechanism.
I can open most storage compartments with the rocker switch to the left of the driver panel, except the storage compartment with the inverter and some other compartment on the coach. So solving the key problem has just moved up in priority so I can open that compartment and check the solenoids and/or turn air valves off so I can safely recharge the batteries.
Question: Should the storage compartment with the inverter in it also open remotely with the rocker switch by the driver seat? If so, I will need to find the relay for that circuit and check it. But, I suppose the unlocking solenoid inside that storage compartment itself may be caput.
But, for today, I have another project. I'm detailing my Casita TT to sell it. No need to keep two RVs. It's double trouble! :D
Richard,
Yep, tried the boost. Did not work. Both chassis and house batteries were dead.
Long story short. I have been working on removing the 8D House batteries, at 157 lbs each, in preparation to replace them with Firefly. I have removed one of them already. I took it home and I'm starting to put it through some desulfation steps. It seems to be coming back to life. The 8Ds are about 4 years old. I plan to use them for backup power at home.
I disconnected the old corroded house battery cables in the RV and just left one of the batteries connected, at 225 AH as the House battery so I could open/close the storage compartments, etc. But, that 225 AH does not last long, even with the switched part of the 12 V circuits disconnected via the toggle switch by the RV door.
Peter - on my 2004 coach all bay doors unlock with the rocker switch next to the driver's seat. The front generator door opens from the push button in the generator radiator bay under the driver's seat area. In my 38' coach I can go through from the passenger side to the front part of the driver's side bay door.
Great info. Thanks. In front of the locked inverter bay I have a pass through drawer. That one opens. In front of the pass through bay, on the driver side, I have the one for accessing the generator push button. That one won't open either. I'll search for the relays that control the inverter and generator push button bays. Hopefully it is just bad relays. If it is the mechanism inside the bays, I will have to take one of the door locks apart sooner rather than later so I can get a replacement key right away.
The relays for the compartments are in the bay that you can't get open
Making a replacement key is easier than you would think. Any lock smith can do it. I took out a unlocked assembly and the locksmith made a key in there shop for me. That being said it not brain surgery to do your self. Take the key blank and slide fully into lock. Rock back and forth then remove. With glasses look at the key and there will be a small damage spot remove with a file and repeat till it works. Probably will do some more tuning when you use on other locks. My key ended up working much better than the locksmiths.
Scott
But, the relay for the inverter compartment, surely that must be someplace else. The smart people at FT would not put a relay to fail in the same compartment it controls.
Thanks for that Scott. I'll see if I can get to the RV tomorrow. I'll have to charge the batteries enough to get at least one storage compartment to open so I can remove the lock.
I would suggest that if your bedroom seal is leaking and your living room seal hasn't been replaced to have them done at the same time. Last year my living room seal on my 2003 was leaking and I got it replaced. A month later I was washing the coach and found the bedroom seal now leaking. No big deal but it cost me another trip back to nacogdoches which is $100 in diesel. I learned that at this age if one is bad the other one is not far behind.. my lesson learned
Keith
Hi Keith,
Previous owner did replace the living room bladder last year 10/2020 at MOT but not the bedroom bladder. This is now most likely a second example of what happened to you.
I'm in N.J. and was not planning a trip to TX anytime soon. My hope is to find a place closer to me that can take care of this. If any of you know of how I can find such a place ...
Question: I guess the first thing would be for me to turn off the valve that pushes air to the bedroom slide and to disconnect the relay that powers the solenoid valve for that bladder. I definitely need to do that before I install shiny new batteries into the bus and get them discharged prematurely. Other than that, is it okay to use the coach for now with the bladder not properly inflated. Beginner question: I'm assuming that the mechanical locks are in place to keep the bedroom slide from moving even though the bladder is caput?
Another obvious question is, how often do these bladders fail? Is this a common every few years occurrence? My intuition tells me, no, but I figured I would ask.
Peter, you would only need to shut off the air valve for that slide. Then get some 2" painters tape that doesn't leave any residue to seal the gap around the outside of the opening.
I used mine with the bedroom seal leaking and it works fine except you do have to close the valve that goes to it. The only problem is that the area that it seals is not sealed. When I use mine it was New Year's Eve there was a strong north wind blowing and you could feel the wind coming in around the seal around the slide. And I assume had it been raining especially of blowing rain it would've blown water inside the couch too. Other than that yes it does work.
Keith
Richard and Keith,
A newbie question ... Obviously, the slide should not be extended until this problem is corrected? No big deal to not extend the slide, but obvious to ask.
I don't see any reason to not use it just know the seal will not be fully inflated and could/will let in outside air , moisture and possibly bugs.. actually it will be like this in or out. Be sure to open the valve at the manifold before you move the slide, then close it back..
Keith
I have done as Keith has said when we couldn't get our bladder replaced for almost 3 months. If I wanted to extend the room, I'd remove the painters tape, operate the slide as usual with key pad. When slide was out, I would shut off the air valve then push close cell foam weatherstripping from HD into the crack, then use the tape. Closing the slide you would have to do the same thing.
The weatherstripping did a good job of keeping dirt/air/rain from entering the coach. Hope this helps.
Keith and Richard,
Thanks for the "How-To" on how to temporarily seal the air gap in slide. Just in time too, big thunderstorms in N.J.
I used this from HD and it fits great. It comes with a sticky back. I kept the paper backing that protects the glue in place on the foam. I didn't bother testing how easily it would be to remove later, if I had removed the paper backing because of the approaching thunderstorms. All I did was to carefully push the paper side of the foam in between the deflated bag and the slide itself. Tomorrow, I'll improve it by adding the suggested painters tape over the gap between slide and RV.
Maybe FOT figured if the auto unlock stopped working, the locked compartment could be unlocked with the key
Has anyone removed the lock cylinder for the Tri/Mark lock in the storage compartments? Pictures attached.
FT told me that there is a number on the lock cylinder that will tell me which T7 key I'll need.
You need a master key to be able to remove the tumblers. I thought that the number is stamped on the key
I just got back from a visit to the locksmith. Got two keys made. Now I can get into all the storage compartments. ^.^d
I turned the manual air valve to the bedroom slide off. The batteries are discharged but I'll be changing the engine batteries this weekend. I'll then test to see that there is no other drain that would damage them. If I find an unreasonable drain from the chassis battery, I will disconnect them and keep testing. If everything is good, I will use the boost switch to turn the generator on. I will then charge the 1 8D 225 AH house battery that I still have connected. The next priority job is to drive the RV about an hour to install the Michelin X Coach tires and the Centramatics.
Here is what the locksmith told me:
1 - There is no way to change the cylinder in my lock. See picture.
2 - What she did was to use the idea proposed by Scott above. She used a blank and kept filing away at the blank until the key worked.
3 - She broke two blanks in the process of working the lock that I gave her. She says it is not that the lock is old. It's just the way those locks are designed. They're hard to work, especially when not lubricated properly.
4 - To open and lock, it is just a 1/4 turn. Key only goes in one way. You have to make sure the key is all the way in. If it doesn't open or close, don't force it. She says with those locks you may have to go back and forth a few times to get them to close. She told me that there is no heavier duty material that she could use for the key for that lock.
5 - She recommends lubricating those locks often.
So as I said after I saw how it was done it isn't that difficult. I had ordered a lot of ten blanks and actually have a bunch left over. I was happier with my own key than the one the lock smith cut because I was able to tune it to all the other locks. I've taped a spare key under the coach with aluminum tape and sprayed black paint to hide it in case I ever need to break in. I keep spare keys inside a locked panel so I can get in without the need of a locksmith or damaging something to get in. Shame we even need to lock anything. Even worse when we lock our self's out. Glad it worked out.
Scott
What lubricant does she recommend?
Most oils will attract dirt and really gum them up. Driving down the road exposes coach basement locks to a whole different set of issues than house locks.
A very good question. Knowing what a locksmith recommends would be nice.
I have always used a Dry Graphite Lube (https://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Line-Graphite-Lubricant-Grams/dp/B00YRZUGH6/ref=asc_df_B00YRZUGH6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167123281189&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7580842283783106709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026339&hvtargid=pla-311586196464&psc=1). Can be a little messy, but does not attract dirt, etc.
Amazon.com: Lucky Line Graphite Dry Lock Lubricant Powder, 4.5 Grams (9501),... (https://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Line-Graphite-Lubricant-Grams/dp/B00YRZUGH6/ref=asc_df_B00YRZUGH6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167123281189&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7580842283783106709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026339&hvtargid=pla-311586196464&psc=1)
She didn't recommend any. I told her I had lubricated the locks and she asked me what I had used. I told her "3-in-one Lock Dry Lube". She said that was fine. I asked her if there was anything else that she may have in the shop that I could use instead, and she said no. The locks are definitely working nicely after multiple applications of that stuff over a week or so.
3-IN-ONE | Cleans, Lubricates, and Protects (http://www.3InOne.com)
Bay doors can always be unlocked with a key even if the actuators fail. The rest of the latching mechanism, cables and links .. well that is a different task.
The OEM keys are brass, latch lockes get stiff, keys twist off and break. There are steel keys that will work..
Bay door keys (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22850.0)
I had success with this.
Houdini Lock Lube - Automotive Lubricants - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5JFKKE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
This one works well too.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fluid-Film-11-75-oz-Lanolin-Based-Petroleum-Oil/50335157?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-hdw-_-bing-_-pla-_-214-_-50335157-_-0&kpid&placeholder=null&gclid=f1a2b56623cb1d014109d5a4f356b353&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1286981&msclkid=f1a2b56623cb1d014109d5a4f356b353&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA_HDW_214_Auto-Batteries&utm_term=4585238370029682&utm_content=HDW_Automotive_PLA
Chassis batteries in (3 of X2Power AGM Group 31). Manual air valve to bedroom slide is working. So yep, it does seem that I do have a leak in the bedroom slide bladder. If I can't find a local place that can do this work, the bedroom slide will stay in until I can make it to FOT next year.
There was a 100 W drain on the chassis batteries for a few minutes after I connected them. After that, just 0.2 Amp drain. Nice.
I contacted FOT to see if they could recommend a place on the east coast to fix the leak in the bedroom slide. They gave me a name to contact in FL, Paul Yasbeck. Is that name familiar to anyone here? Is Paul online ^.^d
I'm still hopeful that I can find someone closer to N.J.
Contact HWH tech help (if you can) and see who they recommend near you. Whoever is re-doing the bladders has to be getting them from HWH.
When stored, I raise up the coach and put in safety pipes so it doesn't come down on the air bags. I've been told not to worry about slide seals deflating since they still seal against rain at ambient air pressure.
Of course there can be a problem if the bladder is cut that might allow water in no matter what the air pressure.
Paul@yasbeckconstruction.com
While motorhome repair is not his primary business, he is very knowledgeable of Foretravels, has helped a number of forum members. Best to contact him to see if he can take on your job. 352-728-0775 (mobile), 813-382-0869 (work)
FROM FORETRAVEL WEBSITE http://foretravel.com/img/pages/photo/1577780524_owner_service_recommended_service_referral_list_file_path.pdf
Wilkins Recreational Vehicles 7520 SR 415 Bath New York 14810 607-776-3103 New and Used RVs for Sale in New York | Wilkins RV (http://www.wilkinsrv.com)
Keystone RV Center (MD) 15799 S. Young Rd. Greencastle PENN 17225 800-232-3279 PA RV DEALER | RV SALES, SERVICE & PARTS | PA (http://www.keystonervcenter.com) Foretravel Authorized
Nash RV Service 375 Old Commerce Rd. Athens, GA 30607 706-540-1800 RV Repairs Athens GA | Nash RV Service, Inc. (http://www.rvrepairsathensga.com) Foretravel Authorized
New Jersey Risco Inc. 137 Allaire Rd. Farmingdale, NJ 07727 732-872-7722 www.riscorv.com
New Jersey ABC-Companies 1494 Federal St. Camden,NJ 08105 800-222-2873 ABC Companies (http://www.abc-companies.com)
I've been to both of these when I lived in NJ over 10 years ago. My experiences are therefore outdated but for what its worth:
You should verify that Keystone is still Foretravel Authorized. They seemed to had limited Foretravel knowledge but the work I had done was more generic. They did stand by their work - after something was not done right, they immediately fixed it.
Risco was overwhelmed when I went there. They took the work but the time to finish kept moving. It seemed that they got a lot of work over the winter and expected coaches to be left there. I was in a different situation so it was rather frustrating. They did winterize the coach at no cost to me.
Again, my knowledge is over 10 years old.
Yea. I think I'll wait until August. By then, I hope to be on my way south. That list provided by Larry/Becky above has two Foretravel authorized centers in TN. Hopefully one of them has done this kind of work before.
BTW, does anyone know where the air exhaust for the bedroom slide seal is? But, most likely part of the valve assembly in the inverter bay. I just haven't had a chance to check the bedroom seal carefully to try to locate the source of the leak. I'm just wondering if the exhaust port valve is stuck open. That would be less expensive than an air leak!
The list is outdated. It lists TN RV, which was bought by Lazydays a few years ago. I'd take it someplace else. 😇.
Peter, there is no exhaust port. Vacuum and filling the bladder is controlled by the 12VDC pump and manifold.
Found leak. Got lucky. It's on the outside of bladder. See pictures.
Now, off to Home Depot to pick up some Flex Seal. Has anyone here used Flex Seal for this or similar patch in the past?
I don't think Flex Seal will fix it. You've got a lot of age/weather cracking going on there. Coach Bucks is the answer.
I'm looking for a temporary fix until I can make it to TX. The rest of the seal looks to be in good shape. So for now, I just need to keep patching that one spot. Unfortunately, I have not located a service center in the East Coast that I would trust with this work.