I am looking for a flat towd brake system. I have searched a lot here but have not come to a decision so hopefully this thread will help.
I have a couple of points/requirements that have prevented me from making a decision:
1- I may two 2 (maybe 3) different vehicles depending on what we are doing. The vehicles could range from 4K-8k in weight, so a 10K bar is probably needed. Something that could move between vehicles would be ideal, although I am not against buying an extra setup
2- I really prefer to not drill into the firewall of the towd. Not saying I won't but I really prefer not to
Outside of that, I am open. Any good brands that you recommend? Is there anything I am missing? Or something you wish you knew beforehand?
With a Foretravel, something that uses the air braking...
M&G if it fits. Airforce1 from SMI otherwise.
If not, ReadyBrake/ReadyBrute which operates via the towbar.
Have seen too many issues reported with units like BrakeBuddy, etc. that rely on a box on the floor and a piston on the brake pedal. Not saying they don't work, but units that bumped loose or stuck and continuously applied the brakes and destroyed pads and rotors are a fairly common complaint with that type of unit.
On our Jeep Cherokee I used the road master brake system when I bought a ram 2500 I went to the air force one because of what I had read can still pull jeep with no problem but if I was doing it again I would probably just use the road master I use a 10k blue ox tow bar others will chime in with different systems
I haven't had any issues with either the roadmaster or the air force one or the bike ox
I do use the 8" riser on tow bar when towing the ram
Chris
No matter what you use for a tow bar, each vehicle to be towed needs base plates and whatever components you need for the braking system you choose. Some of these are pretty expensive for just the braking system. Lots of choices, lots of opinions.
We have used ReadyBrute tow bars with ReadyBrake built in simple surge braking for almost 11 years now with the coach and two Jeeps. I have had a Jeep to tow since the mid 70's and have used a similar towing setup with built in brakes. One of the things we like about the ReadyBrute is that the parts that mount on the toad are simple, effective and inexpensive. Worth considering. We used BlueOx base plates and connectors to the tow bar.
Ready Brute Elite 2 (https://www.readybrake.com/store/p284/Ready_Brute_Elite_II.html)
Thanks for the replies. I'll definitely want something that works, popping out or eating pads/rotors is a no no for sure! Will check out those manufacturers.
I'll have to get custom/generic mount points as I have aftermarket ARB bumpers. If someone has used that brand, I'd like to know what you went with.
I use Air Force One that only works when the brakes are applied so I am
not using the toad brakes with the retarder or Jake Brake. There are probably
other systems that do that. That's why I stay away from the surge type braking
systems
Hmm, there is an interesting topic. Does something like readybrute brake when the retarder is used?
Another AF One fan here.
You present a fairly simple sounding question. It's not. Several things to think of. If your going down a grade and you will if you have a air system it will apply only with application of service brakes. My personal preference. If you use any combination that operated the brakes with the brake lights like so many do you loose the capability of extended use of your retarder on a Foretravel. The brakes light Is illuminated any time you apply the retarder. This can be disabled but I recommend not. I use a electronic brake controller for my trailer with electric brakes but isolated from retarder. Also emergency brakes must be incorporated into all your towed vehicles and trailers. This is a safety item that should be a separate system. I am completely against all automatic brake applications threw a tow bar triggering device. IMO they are all evil and unsafe. You stand a chance of setting the toad brakes at the top of a hill and never get them to fully release till the bottom. And when you disconnect your toad the brakes may be destroyed. You will never even know it is happening. Buy a 10k tow system. Mounts for each vehicular will be different and they are proud of them. They also take on the liability of a failure if maintained properly. Good luck on your choices and I would recommend asking questions individually for each system. So many choices and combinations. I genuinely think you should be able to have a manual override to set the toad brakes in a emergency or tow system failure. Higher bar. I have no clue how you could do this without drilling on the toad either. If you really want to prevent that get a regular trailer and put your toad on it. You also then can back up.
Scott
I'm a Roadmaster fan, as I've had their products on more than five vehicles and have been exceptionally pleased with their support, quality, and after sale service.
My first dingy brake safety device, was a portable unit, and I too am one that would not recommend using one.
My next unite was the Roadmaster BrakeMaster, and that is the one I use today, and have had it installed on several vehicles, with never an issue.
One of my most trusted techs reccomends the newer unit to mine, the Roadmaster Invisibrake, which if I ever bought another setup, I would buy.
Whatever unit you purchase, be aware they sell many different kits. I also recommend their base plates. I recommend starting with the mfg. for information, prior to the install, or ordering the kit to make sure your getting the right kit, or with the installer you plan to use. I have had good pricing and service from eTrailer for purchasing from. eTrailer also has good install videos. Roadmaster will give you correct kit part number you will need for your application, often saving you dollars on purchasing.
You can read about them at:
Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV Accessories (https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/sys_for_me.php)
https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=Roadmaster+brake+systems
Newbie question- Do the brake lights on the DP come on when the retarder is used? I know the brakes are not applied with just using the retarder. If using the retarder and the brake lights come on, does the towd brakes come on? I would think no.
When you wire the towed, the brake lights will come on anytime the coach brakes come on.
We've been using the Blue Ox Patriot 3. We have a relatively small, light toad (Geo Tracker), so its served out needs. What we liked about it is the portability (quick disconnect and stow behing the drivers' seat) and with USB connectivity it requires no direct wiring from the motorhome into the towed vehicle. (Although we ran battery charge cable to keep the car battery changed). The unit has a Bluetooth connected console on the dash of the motorhome indicating when its activated and/or braking, the ability to control how aggressive we want the break assist to be, and the ability to manually override to apply additional braking if needed. (never used or needed that).
The system uses and inertia sensor in the main unit to determine how much braking force it applies. So, whether the braking comes from air brakes, retarder, or engine braking, the system responds independent of the any of those systems; its just sensing inertia and applying the brakes proportionately to that of the coach .
Although we've not used it on a lot of heavy downhills in the Foretravel, we put a lot of miles/mountains in our class C and it worked out well.
BRK2019, Patriot 3 Brake | Blue Ox (https://www.blueox.com/recreational-commercial-flat-towing/braking-systems/brk2019-patriot-3-brake/)
I choose the Air Force 1 cause A. Our air brake coach was set up by PO for AF1 And B. Because I wanted something that completely disappears when in use or not in use. It involves moving nothing around. Except the air line connecting the 2.
M&G located Athens, Texas. It all mounts under hood out of the way.
Ken
The ReadyBrute Brakes are proportional and are applied when the toad is going faster than the coach (service brakes applied, retarder comes on, shift to lower gear). As they come on the toad slows down and breaking pressure reduces. When they are going the same speed there is no braking at all. A dash light tells you when they are applied. Coming down a grade with retarder on and the correct gear selected the coach will settle into a speed that is constant, very little braking action at the toad. The built-in brake actuator on the tow bar has a pretty hefty spring and shock absorber in it.
We have seen no unusual wear on the brakes on either of the Jeeps we have towed.
This works for us, I just didn't want to spent several thousand dollars more beyond the tow bar get a braking system installed on the toad and tap into the coaches brake air lines. We are on our second toad with this coach and will soon add a third one. Simple, mechanical, way less expensive and still functional. It is less than $250 for the parts for the brake system for another toad (plus the base plates and some labor).
Ready Brake or Ready Brute tow bar is simple and works fine. I can take my tow bar and hook my car to any motorhome and have brakes on my car.
Roadmaster Invisa brake. Nothing to do. Hookup and go.
Chris
Baseplates are attached to the towed frame/subframe, not the bumper.
Contact ARB bumper directly. Some of there bumpers have tow rated lugs already installed and if rated for a winch may meet your needs. They may have a tow conversion kit also. May not be possible to take the correct stock tow kit and install on your application, too many conflicts with ARB product. Complete unknown.
Scott
I did look into it and the issue is the bumper uses the mount points on the frame so I cannot use them. Custom vehicles have custom problems:)
Roger.... since when do you worry about cost 🙂
Ah - did not realize that. Glad you clarified (I always like learning stuff :) )
I have used a BlueOx tow bar and surge brake (using cables) for 15 years on four different toads.
The toad braking is adjusted by attaching a spring or bungi cord from the brake pedal to under the driver seat which reduces the brake pedal pressure. I have a light on the dash which turns on when the brake lights on the toad are lighted. When using the retarder on a down hill, the toad brakes are not applied at retarder step one or two, but are applied at step three or four. I have checked the temperature of the toad brakes after descending long steep grades, everything was good. After 15 years, I have had to replace the cable inside the BlueOx surge device twice but never found abnormal wear on toad brake parts.
Another Ready Brake fan. 30,000 miles over 4 years without issue.
Now Bob, I do consider cost but cost is only part of decisions ... labor, parts and performance come into it too. I was familiar with this type of system and for the tow bar, braking setup and breakaway setup it was less than half what a tow bar and coach brake air driven system would have cost plus whatever it costs to get it installed.
I liked the mechanical simplicity of the ReadyBrute, very easy to connect and reliable. And I didn't have to modify the air brake system.
Sort of like the two big projects for the summer, replacing roof top ACs and painting the roof. Doing the roof painting alone saved more than $3K based on the price I got at Xtreme. And maybe $1K doing the ACs. Some of that will go to pay MOT or FT to replace my fuel lines in November. And I will have money left over.
The more you can do yourself the better. What those tasks are is changing as I get older as they do for most of us.
We have a Blue Ox base plate and tow bars. This is the second towed for us, and each needed a base plate. You will have that expense every time you change toweds. We went with the InvisiBrake. Our coach doesn't have a retarder, just a Jake brake.
As Roger said, the more work you can do yourself the less money you will spend. Of course, if you end up spending it at the doctor's office or in the hospital you haven't really saved anything. Like Roger, the things that I do myself vs the things I pay someone else to do is changing.
I'm totally pleased with my AirForce One. Used on two cars, my Acura MDX and Jeep Grand Cherokee. Over 70,000 miles.
Ditto on the AirForceOne
AF One, blue ox baseplate, blue ox 10K steel tow bar, diode based ttow lights.
2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee
AF1, Demco towbar/baseplate and factory flat-tow harness on our 2020 Wrangler.
We use the M&G braking system and have no issues, the coach was piped for it when we got it...
Keith
Yes, Ready Brake works with the retarder. There is a LED for the dash that comes on when the surge pressure actuates the towed brakes. The cable between the towbar and the car's connection needs to be adjusted carefully. Too loose or too tight is critical though not difficut to do.
Jim
2002 U320
I would like to throw my 02.$ in on NOT using a base plate that would bolt the tow bar directly to the ARB bumper with a alternate method, I had that setup fail between Tok, Alaska and Anchorage, the road was in bad shape from frost heaves and had some serious dips and definitely contributed to the failure, but I was sure surprised to see my Jeep Liberty in the passenger mirror when I was trying to pull off in a pullout and felt it hit the back of the coach! the 2.5"X 5" back plate pulled thru the bumper leaving a hole in the ARB bumper both the side's of the bumper had cracked welds all over the place, all the tow bar pieces came from Blue OX and where not homemade they held up great, the bumper is was what failed, Just make sure the bumper is strong enough, ARB bumpers are good products and I was sure surprised it failed like it did. I was surprised once I returned home and repaired the bumper that the Blue OX baseplate bolted up with the ARB bumper installed, you just have to install the base plate first then the bumper at least on a 06 Jeep Liberty.
Safe Travels. Mike
Wow, that is amazing. ARBs are pretty stout. Not as strong as some but definitely good. There are some eyelets on there that it looks like I can get reinforced and some thick heavy duty ones fab'd up. At least that is my current thought but still mulling over this. I could also go with a beefier bumper but that requires swapping it out. Decisions....
On my new to me 2018 Realm I cannot locate the air port at the rear of the coach. I thought Spartan put an air port on the front and back of the chassis for several years (at least on the K3 chassis built for Newmar). I am looking to install Air Force One on my toad but do not want to tap into air lines on the coach. It seems a rear air port would make installing the AF1 easier.
Spartan did make a ping tank optional (Safe Haul). It came out in 2018. First I see it mentioned for a Realm is 2019.
Basically, it's an AF1-type ping tank and connection at the rear. No different than the coach side of an AF1.
Air connection at the front would be spec'd separately by the coach builder.
We agree that a simple tow brake system is good and prefer RVi - Flat Towing Product for Your RV Adventures (http://rvibrake.com/)
We have used the RV-i system for years until recently. Now we have the M&G, since we have settled on a towed vehicle.
We like both systems, but the RV-i has the advantage of ease of transfer between towed vehicles; whereas the M&G is a more permanent installation.
If anyone is interested in purchasing our RV-i system, please send us a PM (private message).
We can discuss in detail.
For those with the invisibrake, does it come on when the retarder is used?
I've read conflicting evidence regarding therapeutic lights and it. Some say they won't come on for the first 2 notches, others said it's always. Which is it?
For an answer to this I would call Roadmaster at 1-800-669-9690 or email them at info@roadmasterinc.com
What is InvisiBrake?
InvisiBrake is a fully-automatic supplemental braking system that uses the electrical connections already in place on your towed vehicle (the towed vehicle's electrical harness) to brake when you brake the motorhome — the same electrical signal that activates the towed vehicle's brake lights also activates InvisiBrake.
Copied from there website
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/invisibrake/index.html
So if brake light are on its active.
Your retarder activates the brake light normally, there is a work around to separate the two redundant brake pressure switches and use the second one to activate the controller and it will not see a brake signal back feed from the retarder. Diode. Both switches still operate brake lights and are still redundant, just the signal can't back feed your controller during retarder use
Scott
We use a Brake Buddy. We have had it for about 25 years, through four motorhomes and five towds. It has been repaired a few times, and the cost and time has always been reasonable.
One thing about the InvisiBrake is it will shut off after 15 seconds and reset for next use. If the Retarder activates your brake lights, it should activate your Towd Brakes (for 15 seconds) and then release.
I have it installed in my Jeep and can say that I have never put much thought into it. There is an indicator light on the Coach dash that lights when the Towd brakes are activated.
Next time out, I will have to check it out. I have had it now for two years and several thousand miles with no issues.
Thanks. I am still looking into them, getting close though. I also like the brakemaster, being that it is hydraulic and come on with the brakes pushed. And could be transferred from car to car easily, at least the inside piece could. Any experience with that? I saw Jack has used it successfully.
Depends on the year of your coach and if it has air brakes. My 2006 turns on the brake lights when the retarder comes on. Older coaches do not do this. The GOVERMENT requirements changed about the time my coach was built. The Retarder is considered a brake so brake light has to come on. You probably DO NOT WANT your toad brakes to come on every time you take your foot off the gas! Good way to grind down your TOAD brakes.
You have two choices. Reverse engineer the brake system. Generate a signal that is active only when the brake petal is pressed. Run A wire all the way to the rear of the coach to activate the Toad Brakes or put an Air over Hydraulic system on your Toad. That is what the Air Force 1 and some others do.
If you do it right it is a toss up on which makes sense.
Only downside or Air Force 1 is if you have a Pickup and want to tow the Jeep behind the motor home or the pickup Airforce 1 is probably not what you want.
I have a 4x4 pickup and a Jeep. The Jeep is the toad behind the Motorhome. The pickup is used when going hunting without the Motorhome.
I have a Demco brake system that uses the brake lights. It came with the Jeep I purchased. It was never fully installed the owner passed before he finished. If anyone is interested I would sell it. You would need some vacuum lines. Since it was a install in progress I do not have all the incidentals. I do have the major parts and instructions.
Sounds like you got a plethora of answers already so I'll just add what I have. That is the Air Force One system with a Roadmaster base plate and the 10,000 lb tow bar. I also put in some brake light kit that runs off of the coach instead of the towed battery. So far that system has been perfect. There's an a little LED light strip that goes on the mirror of the toad and you can see it in your rear view camera when you break that light coming on and braking the towed it works for me just fine. The only issue I have is with my tow bar and it's not the tow bars fault but the bike rack and Roadmaster defender cover that I use from the previous owner to prevent road debris from jumping up and hitting the Jeep. It doesn't allow the tow bar to be conveniently folded back and secured. I have a new bike rack delivered and I'll pick it up in a few weeks and hoping that will change my setup a bit. That set up adds a few extra feet to my rig.
If you do a search on the Air Force One you'll find my install notes as well as pictures. Cutting into the air braking system of the coach to install the Air Force One was not difficult to do physically but was a little hard to do mentally. I overthought it, since I knew that if I messed things up it would be more work to fix than I cared to do. Also was new with the coach, still trying to figure things out, but I did it and if I could do it so could you.
Either way a toad breaking system is necessary not only by law but by common Sense. Even though the coach has enough breaking power to stop my Jeep as well it's prudent to have a good system. And the nice thing about the Air Force One is once you make your connections to the Jeep that's all you have to do for that part anyway.
Good luck in your decision.
Bob
Why not consider a simple RViBrake type of system. There are plenty of things to do for starting every trip and adding another may be a better choice than permanently installing a complex system that may over time need servicing & repairs.
Always a good idea to run a wire in the tow cable to keep tow vehicle under charge.
And preventing tow brake to always operate with retarder is probably easy to accomplish, as many have done.
The major reason to have a tow braking system is to be regulation compliant to avoid considered a contributor to not your fault accident. They also help panic stop a motorhome.
We also use RVI Brake. It's easy to use and easy to store when not being used.
Our toad is a 2003 CRV.
I have narrowed it down. I have spoken to eTrailer, Blue Ox and Roadmaster. I'd like to run this by you to see if I am missing anything, just thinking out loud. Also, links are to eTrailer but that does not mean that I will get them from there.
Baseplate- Not a traditional baseplate, but some D ring adapters. This is what is going to determine which towbar I get. Since I am going to hook up to an aftermarket bumper on my toad, there are 2 options. Quite a price difference between the two, but the Blue Ox does look substantially beefier. I will have my fab shop add some D rings to my bumper so either will fit
1- Roadmaster- https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates/Roadmaster/RM-035-1.html
2- Blue Ox - https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Blue-Ox/BX88358.html
Towbar-
Will go with either of these, 10K each:
1- Roadmaster Blackhawk All terrain 2 https://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar/Roadmaster/RM-422.html Safety chains are not included, I would have to purchase those separately
2- Blue Ox https://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar/Blue-Ox/BX7420.html Safety chains included
That is the simple stuff.
Braking
For braking, I am going to go with the Roadmaster Brakemaster https://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar-Braking-Systems/Roadmaster/RM-9160.html Since I will use 2-3 vehicles, having something that can move easily is important. This is powered by our coach's air brakes, so the retarder will not come on like an electric system. Additionally, it has a brake away should something really bad happen
Roadmaster suggest getting their Combo Kit https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Roadmaster/RM-9243-3.html This has the air hose and some electric connections including diodes amongst other things.
However, I have decided I want to use external lights, the magnetic type that use the flat-4. They'll fit great on my rear aftermarket bumper. Brake lights come on my toad without the key, turn signals and running lights do not. The external lights are easy to move not to mention I do not want to splice into my vehicle's harness. I do not think I need this kit. I do need the air hose though https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Roadmaster/RM-146-7.html I would get a 6 way to 4 flat adapter to power the lights.
Roadmaster also said I would need https://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar-Braking-Systems/Roadmaster/RM-88400.html which is to alert the led light that came from the Brakemaster that I applied brakes. But since I am using the 4 flat, I don't think I need this?
Does this sound correct? Is there anything I am missing for flat towing?
How does that mount to the floor of the tow vehicle? I see the square tubing with the holes, but what keeps it in place?
We only believe in Blue Ox baseplate with the only two circle attachment points. Just look at tow vehicles with Blue Ox baseplate with small inserts removed: hard to know there is a baseplate behind the grill.
Look a Roadmaster where most do not remove the large knee banger with attachment points. Ugly, bulky and easily damaged by someone banging into it in a parking lot.
Blue Ox baseplate can be used with any tow bar, but the Blue Ox 10,000 lb towbar is good towbar
Looks like you have found your own brake system, but think you are overstating that it is easy to move from tow vehicle to another tow vehicle. The air piston is something that we use, except we have a home made low cost system. Where you tap your motorhome air brake line can be problematic.
Ah, I was wondering if someone was going to ask that! Good catch, I did leave it out. There is an adapter plate that attaches to the front seat. They do not have one for my vehicle, but my fab shop will put a steel plate from bolt to bolt with a hook that the clevis from the Brakemaster will attach. It will look like this https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Roadmaster/RM-88316.html
I did see that kneebuster, I would not use it or need it, so that is a plus for Blue Ox.
Roadmaster does offer a 2nd vehicle setup https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Roadmaster/RM-98160.html With this installed, you just have to move the inside piece that attaches to the seat/brake pedal. If I had to move it all, yes that would be more intensive, but with just the inside piece, it should not be more than a few minutes I would think.