Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 11:04:14 am
Title: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 11:04:14 am
All of sudden we lost power. Went to the pedestal power was good there, cycled the circuit breaker and nothing - no power to coach and inverter not working. Is there a main Fuse or Circuit Breaker? I see two red lights on the transfer switch not sure if thats a fault or power to the xfer switch. Generator does not provide power to coach either.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: oldguy on September 22, 2021, 11:49:26 am
When I don't have power the first I check the transfer switch to see if I have power there. You need to be careful as on the city side of the switch as there is 220 volts so you need to know what you are doing.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Elliott on September 22, 2021, 11:57:45 am
Someone with a Nimbus is going to have to chime in and tell you where you main breaker is. On the older coaches like mine it's at the foot of the bed.
Same goes for deciphering the lights on your ATS... the older models don't have lights. You might try calling FT.
On a side note: swapping my ATS out for a manual transfer switch was one of the better mods I did.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Michelle on September 22, 2021, 12:28:53 pm
All of sudden we lost power. Went to the pedestal power was good there, cycled the circuit breaker and nothing - no power to coach and inverter not working. Is there a main Fuse or Circuit Breaker? I see two red lights on the transfer switch not sure if thats a fault or power to the xfer switch. Generator does not provide power to coach either.
There should be a main breaker in a panel with a cover somewhere. As Elliot mentioned, in the older coaches it's on the bed platform, so I would start there in your Nimbus. Look for something that looks like a household electrical panel (grey metal with a cover). If not there, look in the backs of cabinets in the interior of the coach.
Not sure what transfer switch you have - does it have markings on it? The manual might be in the coach paperwork/box of manuals, but if it's marked on the front with brand/model it might be quicker to do a Google search than go through the box of literature.
Since neither shore nor generator are powering the coach, first thought would be the main breaker, second would be the transfer switch.
That said, does the coach have a surge protector installed, and if so, is it after the transfer switch and before the main breaker? It is possible if you have one installed that way, it took a "hit" from a surge and the MOV's sacrificed themselves and you need a new surge protector. Some have a bypass switch on them so if they fail, you can pass power. Do this at your own risk since your coach would not be protected from electrical anomalies (and if something DID take out the surge protector, there is a change whatever it was could happen again).
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 01:44:39 pm
There should be a main breaker in a panel with a cover somewhere. As Elliot mentioned, in the older coaches it's on the bed platform, so I would start there in your Nimbus. Look for something that looks like a household electrical panel (grey metal with a cover). If not there, look in the backs of cabinets in the interior of the coach.
Not sure what transfer switch you have - does it have markings on it? The manual might be in the coach paperwork/box of manuals, but if it's marked on the front with brand/model it might be quicker to do a Google search than go through the box of literature.
Since neither shore nor generator are powering the coach, first thought would be the main breaker, second would be the transfer switch.
That said, does the coach have a surge protector installed, and if so, is it after the transfer switch and before the main breaker? It is possible if you have one installed that way, it took a "hit" from a surge and the MOV's sacrificed themselves and you need a new surge protector. Some have a bypass switch on them so if they fail, you can pass power. Do this at your own risk since your coach would not be protected from electrical anomalies (and if something DID take out the surge protector, there is a change whatever it was could happen again).
This is a surge protector at the pedestal - It did show a fault at line 2, when I cycled the breaker the fault was gone but still no power. I don't see any bypass switch on the transfer switch which is a surge guard Model 40350RVC. Inverter has no power going to it.
I'm up in the mountains of Idaho and unable to get my Satellite antenna down to drive to Boise for parts/service.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Old Toolmaker on September 22, 2021, 01:51:43 pm
Imagine the sound of me banging my head on the table.
The one place where the generator and the shore power line come together is at the transfer switch. It is *possible* that Foretravel installed a surge protector between the transfer switch and the breaker box.
Break out your volt meter, or better yet make up a 110V test light with an old style incandescent bulb, and start checking for electricity at the transfer switch.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 03:15:44 pm
Imagine the sound of me banging my head on the table.
The one place where the generator and the shore power line come together is at the transfer switch. It is *possible* that Foretravel installed a surge protector between the transfer switch and the breaker box.
Break out your volt meter, or better yet make up a 110V test light with an old style incandescent bulb, and start checking for electricity at the transfer switch.
Tested power going into and out of transfer switch and all legs had 120V. Yet no power to any outlet, and inverter shows no power? Could it be the main breaker or is there another main fuse somewhere??
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: oldguy on September 22, 2021, 03:36:05 pm
If you don't have a sured protector between the transfer switch it would most likely be the main breaker.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 04:00:59 pm
If you don't have a sured protector between the transfer switch it would most likely be the main breaker.
Is the inverter down stream from the main breaker? I have no lights on the Inverter at all
The main breaker is not tripped.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 22, 2021, 04:05:04 pm
Salesperson switch?
P
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: oldguy on September 22, 2021, 04:07:25 pm
Check and see if you have power going into the main breaker and then check if you have power coming out of the main breaker.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: wolfe10 on September 22, 2021, 04:18:06 pm
There are several ways your coach could be wired-- no first hand experience with 2009 model.
Please verify that you have both a main 120 VAC breaker panel that will have a breaker going TO the inverter and a second, smaller sub-panel with power IN from the inverter and individual breakers to circuits that can be powered by the inverter.
You may (many Foretravels do) have TWO ATS's. First is shore power/generator. Second is power from the main breaker panel or inverter.
Also, the inverter charger needs to be connected via those large-gauge cables to the house battery bank. There should be a high-amp slow burn fuse near the batteries on the 12 VDC positive wire (red).
Knowing exactly how yours is set up will allow for much better information from us.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Old Toolmaker on September 22, 2021, 04:47:44 pm
Tested power going into and out of transfer switch and all legs had 120V. Yet no power to any outlet, and inverter shows no power? Could it be the main breaker or is there another main fuse somewhere??
The next place power should appear is in the main circuit breaker box. The inverter is a separate issue, as it draws it power from the house batteries.
So. Is there some device between the transfer switch and the main circuit breaker box?
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 05:07:38 pm
Further investigation - there is no power going into the transfer switch on one of the lines.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: wolfe10 on September 22, 2021, 05:14:36 pm
There are several ways your coach could be wired-- no first hand experience with 2009 model.
Please verify that you have both a main 120 VAC breaker panel that will have a breaker going TO the inverter and a second, smaller sub-panel with power IN from the inverter and individual breakers to circuits that can be powered by the inverter.
You may (many Foretravels do) have TWO ATS's. First is shore power/generator. Second is power from the main breaker panel or inverter.
Also, the inverter charger needs to be connected via those large-gauge cables to the house battery bank. There should be a high-amp slow burn fuse near the batteries on the 12 VDC positive wire (red).
Knowing exactly how yours is set up will allow for much better information from us.
I do have two cb panels, and one has a breaker going to the inverter - however it's not tripped.
On the transfer switch one side has two lines and the other side has one - now sure which is input or output But on the side with two lines only one of the lines has voltage.
I don't see a second transfer switch.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: wolfe10 on September 22, 2021, 05:27:20 pm
The side of the ATS with two inputs is the IN (one from shore power, one from generator).
Should be easy to trace the one OUT to the main breaker panel.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 05:49:54 pm
IF (yes, big IF) you are safe working around 240 VAC, start at the CG pedestal:
Two outer straights are the HOTS. Middle straight is the NEUTRAL. Middle round is the GROUND.
So, Either outer to either middle= 120 VAC Outer straight to outer straight= 240 VAC Center straight to center round= 0 VAC
Move on to the ATS-- if two, the one with shore power/generator decision. Check on both IN and OUT sides:
Black to white= 120 VAC Red to white= 120 VAC Black to red= 240 VAC White to green= 0 VAC
OH, and with power OFF, check that each connection is clean and tight and no burned wires!
Let us know what you find.
All connections as you quoted showed either 120 or 240v. The one I thought had no power was the generator input, but after turning that on it showed proper voltage
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 05:51:02 pm
Even though there is output voltage from the transfer switch there is no power to the display inside the coach.
SO, do any of the 120 VAC appliances work? Roof A/C's for example. Of so, you may have an issue with the display. Again I am uses to much less complex systems, so don't know what "display system" you have.
And certainly, if you measured voltage OUT of the ATS, you could remove the cover to the main 120 Breaker box and check power there. Yes, before turning power on, a good idea (actually good annual maintenance) to verify that all screws are tight, no wires burned, etc.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Michelle on September 22, 2021, 06:33:01 pm
I do have two cb panels, and one has a breaker going to the inverter - however it's not tripped.
Does either circuit breaker panel have a main breaker? 50 amp. Likely near the top. (possibly 2, one for each leg of the 50 amp service)
Ignoring the display for the moment, does anything 120 VAC run in the coach? Half will be on one leg of 50 amp, the other half on the second leg.
Which inverter do you have? There were some "problematic" ones used in that general build timeframe (I'd need to dig into which they might be - Brad Metzger might recall as I think he had them in his 2010 originally).
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: jimgior13 on September 22, 2021, 07:26:30 pm
Problem found! Thanks everyone I learned a lot about electrical troubleshooting today and how to trace it down.
It comes down to the slow burn fuse for the outback inverter that needs to be replaced. Not sure what cause it to go but thats where the problem is.
Thanks again to all
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Michelle on September 22, 2021, 08:47:49 pm
Problem found! Thanks everyone I learned a lot about electrical troubleshooting today and how to trace it down.
It comes down to the slow burn fuse for the outback inverter that needs to be replaced. Not sure what cause it to go but thats where the problem is.
THANK YOU for coming back and reporting what you found - this will definitely help others in the future ^.^d
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on September 22, 2021, 09:18:26 pm
Is this the fuse that blew? This is a Class T type fuse, very fast acting.
"Use with Class T Fuse Blocks for circuit protection of devices including inverters. high interrupt capacity for large battery banks including Lithium-ion and TPPL batteries. Extremely fast short-circuit response Recommended by most inverter manufacturers"
Or is it a fuse in the Outback inverter?
In any case, a fuse is for your protection, best to find out why it blew.
Title: Re: Power out - Inverter Out
Post by: Old Toolmaker on September 23, 2021, 09:31:38 am