Well it was on the preventative to fo list but never ordered parts. Noticed a seep from the cap this morning. Hopefully will be able to nurse home. Were seal kits available threw Amazon? Would be nice to at least have a kit in hand. I do carry three gallons of oil normally and will make a catch pan if it gets worse. Still haven't added any oil yet
Scott
Scott,
Also, minimize full lock turns, particularly if not moving. Lower PSI is your friend!
Was having to make a lot of slow tight turns this week. Wonder if running cooling fans on hi would also use up some of the higher pressure also.
Scott,
Here is an Ebay link for the seals.
Sheppard M100 Sector Shaft Seal ONLY | Qty. 2 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheppard-M100-Sector-Shaft-Seal-ONLY-2-Pieces/173254380316?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5338164441&toolid=20001&mkevt=1)
I got the full rebuild kit from Redhead. Not sure about Amazon.
Wrap a rag around it as best as you can to get the oil to drip down into a bucket. Otherwise, it really blows around and makes quite a mess.
Safe Travels
Great idea with the rag. So we traveled 6 hr today an minimal leakage. Note it's not leaking at seal back looks like back plate.
Scott
When mine was seeping a bit of oil, it dripped into the pan on the floor of the bay where your generator cooling fan is. I put a bunch of oil dry in the pan, soaked up most of it.
Made it to North Carolina without issue. Still haven't needed to add oil. Will head back home on Tuesday keeping a eye on it. Cup and kitty litter taking care of it so far. Will relocate inside and add a rag to control if needed.
Scott
Well from Asheville to southern Nevada oil consumption increased. Total oil sprayed on the side and bottom of the coach was about three quarts. Bath day tomorrow for the coach. Between the oil and the bugs it's a mess.
Scott
Scott; when ours starting leaking, I put a fairly large plastic bowl under the gear box and got some drycent or kitty liter at the store and stuffed with rags on the floor. Drove from New Mexico to Mexico with no issues. I did put some bars stop leak in the tank and it seemed to really make a difference! Wishing you a successful trip home with no issues!
On another note; temps going into the teens by the end of the week. UGH! The ugly word is coming! Sn_w!!
So after 13 days fed x delivered puller. Looks good. Got coach raised on 4 1/2" blocks and up on maintenance stands. Pulled generator box forward and used a muffler tool to cut a 8" square out of the generator compartment box to access pitman arm. Not having a 5/8 hex drive socket I cut a inch off of a 5/8 Allen key and used a 5/8 socket and impact. Unlocked tabs and removed center Allen lock bolt. Puller threads was lubed with hi pressure lube and used with Milwaukee m18 impact. Was at about a half hour of labor when pitman arm was marked/ indexed and removed. Dinner time so called it a night. I will follow up as I go. Going to be windy here tomorrow so probably the day after. Cheap tool worked as advertised.
Scott
Horizon Tool 18620 Sheppard M100 Pitman Arm Puller | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/334060760464)
Is that the reason for the hole in the generator compartment is to remove the
pitman arm as I was able to remove my pitman arm to readjust it without removing
the cover that someone had made.
Yes will cover cutout with a aluminum repair plate when finished.
Looking up there I am with you that this can be done without making the hole. Today I bought a nice mirror and a 5/8 1/2 drive socket which hopefully will not break. I intend to use a 1/2 breaker bar and cheater pipe. The question will be whether or not the puller will fit as well as the 3/4 torque wrench, 3/4 to 1/2 adapter and 1/2" 5/8 socket. We shall see! It's nice how there always seem to be a few people tackling these things at the same time ;)
Also when I moved mine into service position it was dripping about 1 drip every 2 seconds. Makes for quite a mess when you drive down the road with a leak like that. Mine is coming out of the pitman arm side of the box.
Forgetting it off I needed to use a 5/8th combination wrench with a cheater for
the puller and putting it on I guessed the torque.
Well the impact made it a very easy job and will also use to reinstall. Ill be comfortable with not using a torque wrench. The lock clip will indicate when it is positioned were it was before. The puller will require quite a bit more effort IMO and the cutout in the fiberglass doesn't bother me at all. I'm still planning on sealing in position as the Shepard m100 manual says can be performed. DWMYH I did. I have heard these can take more effort if your willing to work at it. 8)
Scott
It is not recommended to use the impact when installing. The hammering action can damage the gear box.
I started on mine today. I was able to get the pitman arm bolt out easily without the access hole however I didn't have a 32 mm wrench to fit so I was trying to tighten the puller with an adjustable wrench. This wasn't happening. Then I realized my generator box has an enormous access hole already cut with square self tapper screws (aka Foretravel made this hole). Someone was already in there before. Getting the pitman arm off with the puller took a substantial effort. Alternating rounds of tightening 20 degrees or so with a breaker bar and cheater pipe, heat with a propane torch, and hammering on arm and on the end of the puller. After 3 rounds of this when things got pretty hot it came right off. I needed a swivel as the ~24mm large upper bolt has a frame rail in the way. If my 24mm/15/16" socket wasn't a deep socket, this wouldn't be an issue. I had to stop because all my gopro batteries were dead. Trying to make a youtube video for this job. Tyler's was good but I'd like to see one showing each step. So far I'm failing as I got the pitman arm loosened off camera ;D
Did you remember to mark a index mark. The sector shaft had a arrow but no mark on the pitman arm on mine. Used a center punch to put a small mark to indicate were the arrow goes.
Scott
Guess they should change the removal procedure in their manual to also prevent damage.
In not changing any components returning back to prior nut lock location will be fine for me.
Scott
Would this be the same.kit I want to rebuild.mine? I have not even looked at my steering box but it sounds like it just joined the maint list! Is this a common problem on the FT's?
Yes at 20 yrs its showing up. Need puller.
There are plans on the forum to make. Or spend huge bucks to buy. Or try to borrow from a shop.
Horizon Tool 18620 Sheppard M100 Pitman Arm Puller | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/334060760464?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5338164441&toolid=20001&mkevt=1)
Paid 80$, shipping both ways almost paid for the puller if I was to borrow. The seal kit on eBay does not include the additional orings. I did buy that particular kit my self
Scott
Thats a really good price. Last time I saw price it was over $200.
That would be for the Tiger brand puller. The one Scott bought worked for a lot less money.
I used a paint marker on the pitman arm.
As we have a U320 42' with the 12kw generator, our generator radiator and fan are in the side bay. I removed the fan today to make room to access the steering gear. This was not easy! Only 6 bolts but one of them had to be cut with an angle grinder. Even after that the fan unit was stuck to the rubber belting on the wall very well. Lots of prying. And then it was like origami figuring out how to maneuver that heavy thing out of there. I will certainly have to censor that portion of the video. I was originally cursing Foretravel using just regular nuts/bolts to hold the assembly in but then I realized if I removed the docking light all the nuts were reachable and once I saw the condition of the hardware I am glad I'll be able to use all new hardware.
This is primarily because one of my generator hoses in the rear is leaking apparently and so I am going to replace all hoses, coolant and paint the generator squirrel cage fan (and probably the inside of that bay sheet metal. Should look pretty nice when I am done!
I'll definitely be relocating the fan capacitor to the front side though. I don't need to be pulling that unit for a simple capacitor replacement eventually.
Now at least I'll be able to get back to the steering box work.
Also I watched someone on youtube do the sector shaft seals. I am really not sure how you can do it without pulling the sector shaft. Now that said you might be able to pull the sector shaft in place. For my part I decided I think I will send it in to redhead.
So I have a sore throat today and took my first sick day that I can recall. Got up late and and worked on coach for a bit. Removed sector shaft by tapping were pitman arm goes. Removed cap and finally got to see failed seal. They had a blue backup ring that had disintegrated. Removed and cleaned both seal areas. The one in the cap is easy and the other isn't. Still doable. Installed seal in cap without issue.[ would recommend only using one hand to learn how to install other side one handed, I was not able to use two hands on other side ] The other was a pain in the Butt. The seal is a two piece seal with a nylon backup ring that faces outward to spread and support the double chevron seal. Probably attempted twenty times and you are doing this blind. I was actually laying under the front of the coach under the cap. Started repeating the signs of insanity. Doing the same thing and expecting different results. I had tried doing from behind generator, from inside the box from the in front of the cooling fan. And multiple different ways. No joy. Feeling I was nearing the end of being able to remove the separated seal and reassemble and reinstall. I was back under the cap and got it the 85% installed and swapped to my left hand and it slid right in. Almost in amazement I went and viewed threw the center from the outside and it was finally in correct. The slot the seals go onto was left sharp when manufacturer built box. If the sharp edge was removed it would be easier to prevent damaging seal during installation. I seriously recommend getting two sets of the seals if your planning on resealing without removing gearbox. Reassembled gearbox paying attention to the sector Alignment and the Pitman arm alignment. Retorqued Pitman arm mount bolt and set safety tabs. Sidenote I did not drain the oil reservoir and it had a steady stream the entire time. Serviced reservoir to full and fired up the ISM to leak check. All is good now. Leak check OK. This is a doable job without removing the gearbox but the inner seal is quite difficult to get correct. Total time today to close everything back up was about three hours. Won't be able to take it for a test drive for a couple days but I'm not anticipating any other issues. Never removed steering wheel components. Per the manual. Made and installed cover panel for cutout area. Total cost under $100 including puller
Scott
You've inspired me to try to do the seals in place. I am at the perfect spot in the job to try it and the service hole in the side of my generator box is huge so I should be able to get access to both sides. Just ordered the seals.
We really need to have a understandable difficulty rating. The inside seal (pitman arm side) was accessed between the boxes. I tried but couldn't do thru my new access. Of my coworkers I would suspect less that 10% would be able to do this. It is clearly a pain to do. I definitely recommend removing the sharp edge although I didn't. I also recommend ordering a spare set of seals hoping to give to someone else, also I didn't order. If you are advanced at difficult mechanical puzzles doing them blindfolded and compelled to compleat because it actually has been done in a out of position places and willing to use both left and right hands and you feel lucky I thing you will be able to accomplish. I did. BUT don't take any bets of completion. If you do open up betting I want in on it. This would IMO be at the end of the pain scale, however much, much less work and money if you can accomplish. Also draining the reservoir would reduce some of the difficulties rating, but does add to the entire challenge. Again I didn't drain. Lol CHALLENGE is a appropriate word.
Scott
Using the search function here. Look for a posting on "seal replacement" in June/July 2019 a member was at a west coast park. Had his seals go out. He did his on site. Might have good info.
Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37294.msg357793#msg357793)
That is the easy one. Not the hard one. The cap on the sector took me ten minutes and zero pain. Actually could do without removing pitman arm.
Scott
And that is not the one that is leaking on mine. It's the hard one ;)
They both are failing. Zoom in on the pictures and you can see the blue seal back up ring chunks. They both should be changed. The Cap side could be done on the side of the road without issue. IMO
I've done the job on mine. First of all you are correct, both seals were beyond finished. Secondly I wasn't able to achieve 350ft/lbs of torque on the pitman arm bolt. Right about 330-340 but when I bumped the wrench to 350 I just couldn't do it. I'm going to call it good and if it's ever over a pit I'll have whoever is in there finish that.
Anyway, I had a lot of trouble with the inner seal which I started with. It kept falling apart. The teflon part separated from the rubber part. They don't appear to be bonded in any way. I finally gave up and separated them. I installed the rubber part and then installed the teflon part into the rubber part. Worked like a charm. The cap seal went in without the teflon part coming out of the rubber part.
Removing the generator fan gave me the ability to reach around the other side of the box so one hand went through one side and the other on the other side. I had full visual on the inner seal as well as the ability to manipulate the seal with both hands. Highly recommend removing the generator fan even though that was a beast.
I was unable to get the hydraulic fittings to swivel properly so it was trying to twist the hose. Therefore I was unable to remove the hose and cap it so I had oil draining the whole time. I strategically placed a funnel below the steering box cap area which directed the oil flow into my drain pan. I lost maybe 2-3 quarts over the course of a day. No big deal. I didn't even bother to top it off for testing. The nice thing is that the continual oil flow flushed out anything that may have landed in there that shouldn't.
I was unable to get the cap off without a chain vice grip. I'm not sure what I would have done without that. I was also unable to get the cap back on without the assistance of a sledge hammer and a 2x4. I might have been getting tired, who knows.
My box had some goo in it on the bottom (not much at all). I suppose that't not entirely unexpected. It looked a bit like water or grease. There was a bit of metallic dust as well probably from general wear on the teeth. It's interesting that the oil doesn't really circulate much in there.
There were a few snafus with the video. I had a full card at one point and didn't realize it so I missed the aha moment when the inner seal went in. I also missed starting the camera when the wife was helping me test so we missed all that. But it appears to be leak free. Time will tell once the oil is nice and hot and the coach is actually driven. Thanks for blazing a trail dsd. I really think doing the seals in place without dropping the box is THE way to go (at least for low mileage coaches like mine where a full box rebuild might be questionable.)
It'll probably take me a few weeks or longer to turn the video around. I have to now install all new generator coolant hoses, generator engine mounts on the rear (finally, they are completely toast), oil pressure switch, and generator box insulation. So I'll probably be filming all that first and then making 2 videos from the footage from both jobs. I'm very happy that this all went down the way it did. The ability to do this at my leisure with no impending trips and finding leaking generator cooling hoses before any damage occurred is priceless. We almost always use the coach in hot weather so the generator is critical to my sanity. The hoses were leaking because the exhaust burned them btw. So something worth checking/keeping an eye on. I'll have to figure out how to separate them or insulate the cooling hoses from the exhaust heat.
I had the same trouble with the coolant hoses hitting the exhaust too. I rapped a
rope around the coolant hoses and put a pulley at the top of the back generator
enclosure and when I push the generator back in I pull on the rope and made a clip
to go over the front of the roof of the generator cover. It works well.
That is great to hear. The way the seals I had interlocked led me to believe that I couldn't engage the Teflon backup ring once it was installed. But if it's in that's all that matters, there is more than one way to do anything. I glad to see you didn't skimp on the oil wash part of the challenge. You may have been able to drain the tank but there still is oil in the lines. I can see that removing the fan would help. I'm still saying this is a advanced skills project for most, but is doable. Hopefully I will only have a couple more boxes to replace seals in.
Scott
Thanks for the info.
Is there a remote oil reservoir located somewhere I could/should check the level?
Answered back in your original posting
Scott,
Do you think the steering gear would be hard to do a rebuild at home, I've looked at the exploded comic in my manual and I don't see anything that complex, am I missing something ?
So as I understand the balls come in different sizes to accommodate how worn everything is. So yes you could do at home but having six different sets of different sized balls would become no longer cost effective. If its not sloppy you would be good. You also could disassemble and mic out what you need then order I guess. Also im hoping that the tech doing the blueprinting has a good knowledge on what needs to be done to get good results. IE its craft fully fitting together not just assembling. Not a job I want to do once let alone twice or more
Scott
Resurrecting this thread from last year to see if anyone can confirm the correct sector shaft seal kit that they used (thinking Scott or Mark D.) The Ebay links in this thread are no longer functional. It seems that the Sheppard number is 5545741 and the Sheppard brand kit is at Find it Parts for $125. There are many generic seal kits on Ebay that come up under that part number and they all seem to have pictures with different looking contents in the kit. If someone has had success with one of these maybe you can point me to the seller that you purchased from.
George. I was at Chalk Truck Parts this week and visited with Chris. Call him and he can answer all questions, has all parts and can rebuild the box. Please share my name. (713) 672-6344
I bought a kit before deciding to have mine rebuilt. It will take a couple of hours to check my spares and see if it is the Sheppard brand and part number. If it is I would sell it for $100.00.
Checked and it is just in a zip-loc bag labeled M-100 sector shaft seal kit. If it had come from Sheppard I would have kept it in the original packaging. I would not want to put someone else in the position of using it.
Thanks for checking on that Chuck. I think Scott and Mark both used seal kits from Ebay and those seem to run about $45 compared to over $100 for the Sheppard kit. I'm comfortable using a generic kit I just want to make sure I'm getting the right one. I think I'll just select the best looking option on Ebay and hope for the best.
I bought a sector shaft seal kit off of EBay. I replaced the seals several weeks ago. I watched the utube that Mark D had about changing the seals and it worked out great.
For those looking for the youtube video which I somehow didn't link to this thread it looks like? It is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7MEnfl_gEc
Mark, thanks for reposting the video. I'm on my way back from a Michigan to Oregon trip and my steering gearbox is really starting to leak badly. Haven't had to top off the hydraulic oil yet and I'm 7 hours from home so I think I'll get home OK. Glad I bought the seals and I'll plan to start on this project this weekend. Any additional advice you have to offer from your experience would be greatly appreciated. Has yours remained leak free since you replaced the seals and if so how many miles have you put on it?
On a good note, looks like my trip will be around 5300 miles in total and I've been getting as high as 8.5 mpg and in the mountains around 7.25. I'm pleased with that and other than the steering leak the coach has run like a sewing machine.
I watched that video and replaced the sector shaft seals on our 97 u270 and so far no leaks.
I think im at about 6k miles without any issues.
Mine started leaking in Michigan and actually put a bucket to capture leaked oil. 20/20 hindsite I should have dropped a rag over it to control the direction of the leak into the bucket. I had oil mist up about five feet high on the left side of the coach. Dont forget that this is a great time to drain and replace the filters inside the reservoir. We drove back to southern Nevada with it leaking.