Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: AC7880 on October 15, 2021, 10:55:09 pm
Title: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on October 15, 2021, 10:55:09 pm
Drivers side tag axle seal leaking. Info below.
March 28, 2018 Cummins in Coburg discovered the driver side tag axle seal was leaking gear oil, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings
12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).
10/12/2021, Before this trip, I checked all (front and tag) hub oil levels, OD 117,500. Drivers tag hub oil level exactly at the add mark. (5,000 miles since inner seal replaced the second time). No oil in hub cap.
I had never topped up a hub, and did not realize how little oil it takes. I overfilled it, and left it overfilled (maybe 1/4 - 1/2" over full line). Would that cause even more excessive oil from inner seal leaking?
10/15/21 (today). After coming off Siskiyou mountain pass from OR into CA on I-5, just past the agriculture check station, I stopped for a walk around. I smelled a smell similar to hot brakes, but am experienced in long downgrades and am easy on brakes/retarder and use gears selection.
The tag wheel was smoking. At first I suspected a stuck brake pad, but crawling under saw gear oil slung onto nearby components. Theory: gear oil was on the tag brake rotor/pads, and the long downgrade heated them up enough to "smoke" the gear oil. Took a long time for the smoke to end.
Pulled the hubcap, tag hub was at the add mark. Topped it up to the add mark again.
I left the hub cap off to monitor the level. 150 miles later in a campground, hub oil level still right at full mark.
We are now in Corning CA, headed to Nacogdoches via NV then across I 40. Multiple stops along the way, Nac around 2nd to 3rd week Nov. Donnor pass on I-80 tomorrow.
I'll be checking the hub oil level every stop, and after all long downgrades.
Concerns? Safe to continue as long as I keep oil in the hub, even if it slings some out?
Valvoline synthetic gear oil. I have some concern about flash point if oil is on the brake, and brake gets hot on long downgrades.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Olde English on October 15, 2021, 11:13:48 pm
A couple of possibilities strike me, the seal was in slightly out of straight so it acts like a pump or was knicked when the assembly was re installed. Where the seal rides could be the problem.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on October 16, 2021, 09:37:31 am
Round 1. Bearings, races and oil seals.
Round 2. OIl seals.
I have watched people destroy ball bearings by incorrect procedure. "I" would either replace or cause to be replaced the bearings, races and seals one more time paying special attention to the area where the seal rides on the axle. IF and that's a big IF, the area where the lip of the seal rides on the axle is worn, there is a commercially available thin walled sleeve that can be used to effect a leak proof repair with a little lathe turning and loctite.
While continuing to travel, swap out the synthetic oil for old style gear oil with the hope that will bring oil consumption under control. And of course, the largest fire extinguisher you can handle.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: turbojack on October 16, 2021, 09:54:00 am
Old Toolman beat me to my post so some of what I said is duplicate.
For this to be replaced so many time and still leaking there must be something wrong with what the seal is riding against. I do not know about this axle but on boat trailers a lot of them have a replaceable race that the seal can run against when when the seal starts leaking.
I would still not rule out that you do not also have a dragging brake. Get a IR heat gun and compare that wheel to the other ones. At least you then could rule that out.
I do not see a problem continuing with it leaking except for the mess it will make. The bearing only care if they have oil and not below the add line.
If oil is on the rotor and brake pad that brake is not working as it should in stopping. I would try to not use the brakes on downhills to try and keep as much heat off of that brake so the oil will not start on fire. The oil has a flash point of around 440-500 degrees. They say with normal braking the rotors will not get much above 400 degrees but can get as high as 1000 degrees with very heavy braking
Not to scare you but I would make sure I have a good fire extinguisher near by just in case.,
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Olde English on October 16, 2021, 10:21:50 am
Not sure of the set up on a tag axle but if it's like a semi trailer then a "speedy sleeve" is called for. They're a bit of a pain to install if you don't have the install tool or if you've never done it. Basically it slides over the existing shaft and creates a new smooth surface for the seal to contact. When installed properly there's no machining or silicone needed, it can be installed using the old heat it up in the oven method to expand then slide on the shaft.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on October 16, 2021, 10:29:15 am
They also make new type seals that don't seal on the axle but seal internally. Check with the numbers of your original seal and see if that is an option.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on October 16, 2021, 10:59:58 am
Your 2003 should have a uni seal. That is a seal that turns within it's self. Proper installation requires a driver to install it in the hub, then the seal is pulled on to the axle end by torquing the axle nut, then adjusting the Bering per specs. I suspect a damaged hub ( a scratch in the bore) or improper installation, you can't beat on these seals to install them. If up don't use the proper driver they will leak every time.installed properly they will last a long time.
To get you to Nac try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it. It can b had at Wally mart or about any parts store. It's thicker may help with the leak
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 16, 2021, 11:30:18 am
Who would be best in Nac for a final and best fix on this tag axle seal, bearing, race etc?
Depending on how travel goes the next day or two I may seek out repair between Reno NV and Nac.
Anyone trustworthy along the way would be OK as well.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: dsd on October 16, 2021, 12:11:48 pm
Some of these seal designs an be difficult to get aligned correctly and will leak. I did work for one operator that had a 44 passenger bus and had chronic front hub oil leaks. Owner hated seeing it. They ended up resolving by greasing hub bearings. Personally I prefer the oil bath, but also don't want fires from leakage, may be a short term possibility. Synthetic oil leaks more than dyno also. Curious if those hubs require the 140 weight oil like my front hubs on my 2001 320? Scott
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on October 16, 2021, 04:40:52 pm
Dan almost any heavy truck/trailer repair shop should be able to handle that job. Common job. You May want to stay away from run of the mill RV repair places
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: oldguy on October 16, 2021, 06:32:08 pm
As Scott said your can grease the bearings. Years ago I had a Class C motorhome and it was supposed to get oil from the differential and for some reason it wasn't and took out the bearings. I packed the new bearings with a molly grease and forgot about them as I knew the bearings would last as long as the coach was running.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 16, 2021, 09:18:24 pm
Ran 306 miles today. Very little (if any) loss of hub oil.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on October 16, 2021, 09:26:44 pm
I can see slung oil in a pattern from the inner hub. Doesn't appear heavier than before, at least on this 300 mile run. I'm pretty sure the brake pads have gear oil on them. No active drip anywhere, but bottom of hub is slightly wet.
I was real easy on the service brakes coming down the east side of Donner pass today. I stopped at the bottom, no smoke but a wiff of oil vapor. Close to smoking I think.
1750 miles to Nac, stops along the way. I'll be checking tag oil level several times per day as we travel. May run all the way to Nac, may find a place along the way that can do short notice service.
Edt: infrared temp checker says all wheel positions close to same temp. And tag hub was not hot to touch.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Chuck Pearson on October 18, 2021, 10:21:12 am
I'd get rid of the Valvoline synthetic and go to old fashioned hub oil. My personal attitude on the synthetics in general....great for newer cars, wrong stuff for old iron.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 18, 2021, 11:14:06 am
I used synthetic for almost all of our stuff and it's all OLD. The Powertech generator loves it. I would use it on the Detroit but it's really expensive plus I can't find any that is Detroit 2 cycle approved. I even use it on the transfer cases in our AWDs. Valvoline makes a great synthetic ATF and use it in the MBZs.
The high mileage synthetics have seal expander additives so should not leak. Ours don't. The engine oil may seem as thin as water when hot but it does not need to be thick for better protection than petro stuff.
New 2 cycle chain saws, weed whips, etc come with a bottle of synthetic oil.
Pierce
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 11:57:49 am
John's Truck Service Tucumcari NM. I used them once before on a previous coach.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 12:02:39 pm
Your 2003 should have a uni seal. That is a seal that turns within it's self. Proper installation requires a driver to install it in the hub, then the seal is pulled on to the axle end by torquing the axle nut, then adjusting the Bering per specs. I suspect a damaged hub ( a scratch in the bore) or improper installation, you can't beat on these seals to install them. If up don't use the proper driver they will leak every time.installed properly they will last a long time.
To get you to Nac try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it. It can b had at Wally mart or about any parts store. It's thicker may help with the leak
As several stated, the surface the seal rides on has some blemises. And the seal that was on there was the type to spin on the surface.
Mechanic using emory cloth to smooth the surface somewhat, and getting the seal that spins on itself, not on the surface. Races and bearings look good (been on there less than 20,000 miles).
Still disassembled as I type.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: turbojack on October 25, 2021, 12:12:58 pm
Sounds like they know what they are doing. The rotor and brake pads do not look like they were soaked in oil.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on October 25, 2021, 12:34:45 pm
Thanks for the follow up
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 12:39:13 pm
Sounds like they know what they are doing. The rotor and brake pads do not look like they were soaked in oil.
Already steam cleaned by the time I took the photo.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: oldguy on October 25, 2021, 01:21:20 pm
Well I learnt something new with the the bearing that spins on its self. In all the years of working in the trade I had never seen that kind of seal. One of the things I had learnt was to alway grease the seals face so the seal was lubricated for the seals that rotate on the surface. Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 02:40:00 pm
On the road again. Mechanic was a pleasure to work with.
Foretravel U300 in one of the bays, managers father's coach.
3 RVs waiting for service, and 4 big rigs towed in for repair this morning.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 02:42:09 pm
Well I learnt something new with the the bearing that spins on its self. In all the years of working in the trade I had never seen that kind of seal. One of the things I had learnt was to alway grease the seals face so the seal was lubricated for the seals that rotate on the surface. Thanks for the update.
CRC seal.part number 47691
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on October 25, 2021, 02:50:45 pm
Seal.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on October 25, 2021, 03:05:09 pm
The same type of seal I upgraded to on my '81 crane. Different size and Stemco brand. Ended seal seepage
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: oldguy on October 25, 2021, 03:10:50 pm
It is a good thing to know about. I never had a issue with conventional seals, use a speedy sleeve a couple of times.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 01:03:38 am
Revisiting this drivers side tag axle seal slinging oil (still), even though seals replaced three times so far.
If you read the 1st post (Oct 15, 2021), then look at the post with pics it will explain (post 1, then reply 6 and 7).
The surface the seal rides on has some blemishes on it. That "must" still be causing the issue.
It is still slinging oil, but not quite as fast as before. I leave the hubcap off and check hub oil level every travel day. Slow loss.
Post 1 in this thread was southbound on I-5 on Siskiyou pass into CA from Oregon, with smoking from the driver side tag (oil contamination on rotor and pads).
Same thing today when I was northbound on that same pass. After the long down hill with intermittent brake use and retarder use, same smoking brake (burning oil sling off the rotor and pads). Odometer was 123,220 to compare miles since replaced (info below)
Apparent enough that a pickup truck driver honked as he passed us at bottom of the pass to let us know a issue (I already planned on pulling into rest area just past bottom of pass to check the tag).
- March 28, 2018 Cummins in Coburg discovered the driver side tag axle seal was leaking gear oil, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings
- 12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).
- 10/21/2021 Tucumcari John's truck service, drivers side tag axle inner hub seal replaced (Odometer 119,323, 6,823 miles since last seal replaced)
- Today, 5/5/2022 smoking tag brake, odometer 123,220, 3,897 miles since tag seal replaced in Tucumcari.
Three seals, still slinging. What can be done to the surface the seal rides on? How difficult to have the entire hub assembly replaced? What is the part called? Sourcing it?
Old toolmaker in reply 2: "the area where the seal rides on the axle. IF and that's a big IF, the area where the lip of the seal rides on the axle is worn, there is a commercially available thin walled sleeve that can be used to effect a leak proof repair with a little lathe turning and loctite. "
Reply 6: "try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it."
Reply 8 and 10: "They ended up resolving by greasing hub bearings" (recommend doing away with oil bath and going to grease packing the bearings/race)
Getting tired of "repairing" the same issue, and possibility of igniting the oil sling on long steep mountain passes.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on May 07, 2022, 01:18:30 am
The seal I was referring to does not spin on the axle or the hub it only spins internally and imperfections don't matter. I will take a picture tomorrow if I can find on in my spare parts.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 10:00:17 am
The seal I was referring to does not spin on the axle or the hub it only spins internally and imperfections don't matter. I will take a picture tomorrow if I can find on in my spare parts.
I "think" that is what they used in Tucumcari? Mechanic said the one he installed is one that spins on itself, not on the hub. CR Seal 47691, radial shaft seal. Honestly I am clueless on the subject at hand.
47691 cr seal - Search (https://www.bing.com/search?q=47691+cr+seal&cvid=78a46c15fb83425b8d39f61f1467659c&aqs=edge..69i57j0l3.6708j0j1&pglt=299&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS)
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on May 07, 2022, 10:43:48 am
Dan, those seals are very good, however they must be installed with the proper seal driver or the will be damaged. It is hard to believe that the seal could have been installed improperly 3 time!!! It just might be time for grease pack this go around.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on May 07, 2022, 11:03:06 am
It is hard to see from the picture in your link if it is the seal I am referring to. The ones I have installed want the seal on the axle first then put the hub on. The opposite of normal seals.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on May 07, 2022, 11:10:34 am
The ones I have installed specify installation in the hub the pulled on to the axle by torquing the axle nut per instructions then backing off and adjusting bearing.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 12:03:19 pm
I wonder if using Lucas Hub Oil (stop leak) would help? I would remove as much oil as possible externally, then top back up with Lucas. Could do that again after next drive
Doing a 4th attempt at mechanical repair on the hub seal is getting excessive on my wallet, especially after driving from TX to Oregon with current fuel prices.
I know I don't want to risk a fire from the oil sling on the brake rotor and pads. It was smoking pretty good in October and yesterday. "Normal braking and smaller mountain passes have not been an issue. This pass has some pretty good downgrades.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: oldguy on May 07, 2022, 12:56:59 pm
I would pack the bearing with a Molly grease put in a new seal and grease the seal lip before installation and then forget about it.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 01:04:27 pm
Does anyone know which speedy sleeve would be the correct one? And it seems the same seal would be used.
The seal in use has 4.7670 shaft diameter.
Edit: I found this and it helps me understand: http://www.industrialbearings.com.au/uploads/catalogs/skfspeedisleeve_1338271826.pdf
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: TGordon on May 07, 2022, 02:02:04 pm
Are there any cracks on the hub? Are the seal seating surfaces round? When everything is installed, but the wheel, can you wiggle the axle shaft radially?
If you try, one-more-time, I suggest a Stemco Discover, or Voyager wheel seal with an anaerobic sealant on the OD of the axle and the ID of the hub.
Good luck... Tim
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 02:40:37 pm
Are there any cracks on the hub? Are the seal seating surfaces round? When everything is installed, but the wheel, can you wiggle the axle shaft radially?
If you try, one-more-time, I suggest a Stemco Discover, or Voyager wheel seal with an anaerobic sealant on the OD of the axle and the ID of the hub.
Good luck... Tim
This type repair is beyond my capabilities, so hired out. Reply 16 has photos and 17 comments on the photos.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: oldguy on May 07, 2022, 04:17:36 pm
Looking at post #16 has anybody slide the bearing on to the axel tube to see if it is too loose. It should slide on easily but shouldn't rock.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 04:27:15 pm
Looking at post #16 has anybody slide the bearing on to the axel tube to see if it is too loose. It should slide on easily but shouldn't rock.
I can't say for sure, but between the three shops I would think it would have been discovered. Especially by the last shop since he smoothed then emory clothed the rough spot on the axle.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Running Odometer on May 07, 2022, 04:38:32 pm
Can you change wheel seals by your self ?
I think mine is leaking too. I can see the oil mark on the tires.
How much would a shop charge?
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 07, 2022, 06:29:16 pm
I think mine is leaking too. I can see the oil mark on the tires.
How much would a shop charge?
Getting the Tag or front end off the ground, ability (tools) to remove lug nuts and the heavy wheel, then dissemble brakes and hub is probably not for most shade tree mechanics.
When I was younger I did water pumps, clutches, brakes etc on cars. I packed wheel bearings etc. I changed water pump on a Cummins 8.3.
But for me, at my age and with my tools, and my location to do the job, it is too "heavy" for me to do tag or steer hub seal. (Note: other members on this forum can do work like this on heavy equipment and coaches).
Parts and labor, I paid $469.24 in Tucumcari NM for the seal replacement this last time. The other 2 times I had a long list of things worked on in addition to tag seal and can't break cost down.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Olde English on May 07, 2022, 08:22:24 pm
I WAS contemplating doing my front brakes, no big deal right? Wrong, on Tuesday I loaded up two blue spruce in ten gallon tubs, now it's five days spent since then in some serious lower back pain oh and the discomfort in my lower GI. The day when I did this job in a couple of hours is apparently long gone so, the reality of being 70 and loaded with old injuries, broken neck, blown out knees ( no humor please) dislocated shoulder and lot's more. Scared or rational, I'll figure it out when I get my trees planted and my potato tubs started. Mick
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on May 08, 2022, 01:37:41 pm
I found one of my crane seals and the pictures show how it works. Neither the outer or inner surfaces move once installed. See how the seal works when the inner and outer are moved. Imperfections in the hub or on the axle would have no effect. Too many mechanics to have all made errors on the seal if it is this type. Maybe there is a crack in the hub or another way for the oil to leak out.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: bbeane on May 08, 2022, 01:57:30 pm
X2
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 08, 2022, 02:36:14 pm
Looked through previous owner's documents. Driver tag seal replaced Aug 2004, and March 2009.
Plus our 3 seal replacements March 2018, Dec 2019, and Oct 2021.
My short term plan is to get Lucas Hub Oil to replace the standard gear oil, and brake cleaner spray to clean up pads and rotor again. Today I suctioned out 14 OZ of the hub oil and replaced with 14 oz Lucas Hub Oil. Next drive is 93 miles Tuesday to our home base where we will stay at least 4 months. I'll repeat the hub oil replacement there.
Long term plan is to choose the next place to attempt a permanent fix with either Speedy Sleeve or just another brand and design tag seal.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: red tractor on May 08, 2022, 06:57:09 pm
At this point I would give up on using oil in the hub and grease the bearings like we did years ago. Pack the grease in the bearings and you will be good to go for a good long time.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on May 09, 2022, 06:09:04 pm
When I convert from oil bath to grease packed bearings, are any parts needed to change out? IE, Stemco "hub cap" with the red plug, hub seal etc?
My hub seal has few miles on it and was a slip on not press fit. Should it be changed at the same time?
We only have 93 miles left on our round trip from Oregon to Texas and back, so it will be quite a few months before I find a shop to convert from oil bath to packed bearings.
In the meantime, I removed around 16 ounces of hub oil and replaced with Lucas Hub Oil (which may slow and long shot stop the leak).
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Doug W. on May 09, 2022, 06:54:54 pm
When I convert from oil bath to grease packed bearings, are any parts needed to change out?
352-4009 by STEMCO - Wheel Hub Cap Oil Vent Plug - Grease Hub Cap with... (https://www.finditparts.com/products/454347/stemco-352-4009)
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on February 10, 2023, 11:09:08 pm
Revisiting the saga of the drivers side tag axle seal, and preparing to hire Cummins in Coburg OR to pack the bearings with molly grease, doing away with the oil bath.
QUESTION: Should I purchase new brake pads for driver tag in advance since that may not be available in the local area? Possibly brake slide pin(s) as well? OK to replace only one side tag brake pads, or should both be done at the same tme?
My "assumption" is the drivers tag brake pads are "probably" oil soaked beyond the surface area and cannot be cleaned??
I will call Cummins about brake pads etc after getting advice here. I'd like opinions first.
------------------------------------------------------------ History: Drivers side tag axle seal leaking. Inner seal replaced 5 times.
- Previous owner's documents. Driver tag seal replaced Aug 2004, and March 2009.
- 3/28/2018 Cummins in Coburg, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings
- 12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).
10/24/2021: Driver side tag axle seal replaced at John's truck service in Tucumcari NM. OD 119,323 (6,800 miles since last seal)
Descending long mountain passes, even easy on service brakes & using retarder, driver tag is smoking (still).
I replaced the hub oil with Lucas hub oil (thicker), still using hub oil every couple hundred miles.
Advice and best guesses appreciated.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on February 10, 2023, 11:32:39 pm
Found this info in a older post to the forums:
Your rotor # should be Meritor 3218K167 (verify to make sure) Pads Kit 15625PM Slide pins Kit 15016 Helper springs Kit 15018 You may need a caliper rebuild kit and new slide pin bushings
Checking that this would apply to 2003 Tag axle brake system. I think at most I will need brake pads, and "maybe" slide pins. Helper springs are already on all brake positions.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Michelle on February 11, 2023, 09:26:53 am
Dan,
During any of the hub services, did they replace the red Stemco cap? I believe if the vent hole in that cap is clogged, it can accelerate seal failure.
Looking for recommendations for mechanics in Bakersfield CA (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30609.msg265943#msg265943)
Front Wheel Beaing (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27987.msg231186#msg231186)
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on February 11, 2023, 10:55:41 am
During any of the hub services, did they replace the red Stemco cap? I believe if the vent hole in that cap is clogged, it can accelerate seal failure.
I've checked the vent hole on all wheel positions when checking hub oil and have a couple of spare stemco caps on board. John's truck service in Tucumcari found some blemishes on the hub itself, photos in reply 16.
Do you advise changing brake pads on both tag wheel positions at the same time, or do you think one side only is ok? Plenty of meat on the pads on the drivers tag, but with all the oil slinging over time it seems the pads would be contaminated beyond just cleaning?
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 11, 2023, 06:00:19 pm
I've checked the vent hole on all wheel positions when checking hub oil and have a couple of spare stemco caps on board. John's truck service in Tucumcari found some blemishes on the hub itself, photos in reply 16.
Do you advise changing brake pads on both tag wheel positions at the same time, or do you think one side only is ok? Plenty of meat on the pads on the drivers tag, but with all the oil slinging over time it seems the pads would be contaminated beyond just cleaning?
You'll probably feel better with new pads on the oily side. You can never get the oil out of the friction material.
Unless that blemished surface has been sleeved or the self contained seal is installed you'll always have problems. That sealing surface needs to be perfect to eye and fingernail examination. I WOULD "Mic" the shaft diameter to make certain that the inner race fits properly -- a poorly fitted or worn bearing could be the cause of most of your oil slinging problem.
And I *know* that you're not going to like this question, but are you sure you're not over filling that axle with oil?
You'll probably feel better with new pads on the oily side. You can never get the oil out of the friction material.
Unless that blemished surface has been sleeved or the self contained seal is installed you'll always have problems. That sealing surface needs to be perfect to eye and fingernail examination. I WOULD "Mic" the shaft diameter to make certain that the inner race fits properly -- a poorly fitted or worn bearing could be the cause of most of your oil slinging problem.
And I *know* that you're not going to like this question, but are you sure you're not over filling that axle with oil?
In March 2018, Cummins replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings. So it "shouldn't" be poorly fitted or worn bearings. That said, the shaft was probably not micced.
Question for you: Even if the shaft is damaged, would packing moly grease instead of using hub oil prevent slinging in your opinion?
What would it take to replace the entire tag axle shaft? Photos on reply 16 shows definite issues with the surface. John's truck repair in NM tried to clean it up with emory cloth.
I want to do a permanent solution and prevent any possibility of a brake/wheel fire. And tired of dealing with it time after time.
I'm 99% sure I have not overfilled the axle. I have left the hubcap off, and examine level at every stop. And I have checked other tag and both steer axles - same level used on all.
And as suggested, I'll have brake pads replaced on both tag axle sides.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Pamela & Mike on February 12, 2023, 07:08:10 am
If various shops have installed several new seals and you still have a leak has anyone installed a "Speedie Sleeve" ? These freshen up the area where the seal runs.
Mike
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 12, 2023, 08:29:42 am
In March 2018, Cummins replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings. So it "shouldn't" be poorly fitted or worn bearings. That said, the shaft was probably not micced.
Question for you: Even if the shaft is damaged, would packing moly grease instead of using hub oil prevent slinging in your opinion?
What would it take to replace the entire tag axle shaft? Photos on reply 16 shows definite issues with the surface. John's truck repair in NM tried to clean it up with emory cloth.
I want to do a permanent solution and prevent any possibility of a brake/wheel fire. And tired of dealing with it time after time.
I'm 99% sure I have not overfilled the axle. I have left the hubcap off, and examine level at every stop. And I have checked other tag and both steer axles - same level used on all.
And as suggested, I'll have brake pads replaced on both tag axle sides.
Last things first, until I found the cause of the oil leak, I'd clean the brake pads and re-use them, but I have a higher tolerance for risk and the scars to show for that tolerance. If I had still a real fear of a fire starting I'd cage that air motor and rely on the other two sets of brakes on that side and drive accordingly.
Let's get rid of that last 1%: The correct oil level is at the bottom of the Stemco cover between those two almost invisible lines. The higher level shown in Tech #011 is the highest allowable level for inititial filling and is expected to fall as the oil flows to the back of the bearings.
All of the bearing surfaces need to be accurately measured. That means to four places Imperial i.e. 0.0001" and 3 places Metric 0.001mm. How much Emery paper has been used on those surfaces previously? We can't know without measuring, but I'd bet the answer is "enough."
And high temperature wheel bearing grease will stay where it belongs better than the oil. But in automotive applications there's an additional "sling ring" to contain what gets past the grease seal.
And finally, if careful measurement shows that a too loose fit of the inner bearing races is the cause for the oil leaks then replacing the spindle is just a matter of cost. That being said the outer bearing races need to be a press fit inside the hub. If they slide in and out they're too loose.
"One use" micrometers are pretty inexpensive and usually come with a standard for setting the "0" point.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Protech Racing on February 12, 2023, 11:43:44 am
A couple things. Stemco might have a sleeve that pressed over the spindle as part of its seal. That removes any scarring of the spindle adding to the leak . If the brake drags. It may over heat the situation and promote a leak as tbe fluid gets hot. Synthetic oil may weap a little easier. But good chance that you can't light it on fire . Setting the end play near zero will help . Going to grease may work but you have to increase the end play to 004 or so .
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 13, 2023, 09:34:38 am
A couple things. Stemco might have a sleeve that pressed over the spindle as part of its seal. That removes any scarring of the spindle adding to the leak . If the brake drags. It may over heat the situation and promote a leak as tbe fluid gets hot. Synthetic oil may weep a little easier. But good chance that you can't light it on fire .
Setting the end play near zero will help . Going to grease may work but you have to increase the end play to 004 or so .
Are you saying the tag axle spindle uses tapered roller bearings?
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Protech Racing on February 13, 2023, 10:51:41 am
No idea But for 99% of HD hubs. Yes
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on February 13, 2023, 10:57:14 am
Of course. But it seems very unlikely that 3 different guys would all set it that loose. I suspect a basic mechanical flaw .
3 times for my hub service, 2 times for previous owner. 5 times failure on driver tag seal.
For me alone, odometer 101,100 first replacement to 123, 329 current date, 3 inner seals replaced.
Very frsutrating, and mechanics have not been able to figure it out. Which is why I am asking for advice before calling Cummins in Coburg OR, and also perhaps asking another shop or two.
There are 2 places in Eugene Oregon that do fire truck maintainance, and should be familiar with the Meritor air disk brakes and perhaps the hubs as well. Don't know if they will do RVs and be any better than Cummins (who did one "repair" of seal, races, and bearings replaced)
I have part numbers now for slide pins and brake pads, and for inner seal (in case a shop doesn't know the Meritor). Any idea of where I can find part number and pricing for the spindle itself? I have no idea of how it installs or potential labor cost if I have it replaced.
I know I only want to do this one more time to find success.
My best guess right now at least cost and with some hope of scuccess with my limited knowledge is to ask them to pack it with moly grease and replace the brake pads. I already personally tried the thicker/heavier Lucas gear oil with no success.
In the photos, they were taken after steam cleaning at last inner seal replacement. The pads look contaminated to me.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 13, 2023, 07:51:40 pm
AC7880 Did any of your techs mention a spun bearing?
I sign my name because I'm o-kay with being wrong. Art Joly
Nope, no mention
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on February 13, 2023, 10:13:15 pm
This is the latest seal installed in Tucumcari NM:
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on February 13, 2023, 11:21:08 pm
Lots of information about the seal and installation if you read the left side of the page.
Amazon.com: SKF Scotseal Plusxl Seal - 47691 : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/SKF-47691-Scotseal-Plus-Xl/dp/B00460INJ0/ref=asc_df_B00460INJ0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309788226955&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17551447010657058078&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031159&hvtargid=pla-570368785898&psc=1)
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Protech Racing on February 13, 2023, 11:36:28 pm
Try for a Stemco product. They have a press fit . The seal may be too thick and getting crushed by the hub to axle interface. , cussing to it stop spinning. It should be at least 040 thinner than that space. , and be a press fit into the hub . Also maybe not seated deep enough to clear the spindle . Measure from base of bearing to spindle face. Measure from base if bearing to seal face. That will show the interference .
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Protech Racing on February 13, 2023, 11:37:44 pm
Google the seal number and source a seal that is narrower . Pull the other side off and check the number and install situation .
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 14, 2023, 08:14:26 am
Do you know the bearing number and manufacturer? If you can give me that information I'll look up the shaft and bore diameter for you. Meanwhile you can hit the Foretravel binders for the manufacturer and part number for the spindle and housing -- preparatory -- for "hitting the wrecking yards for a complete assembly."
Do you know the bearing number and manufacturer? If you can give me that information I'll look up the shaft and bore diameter for you. Meanwhile you can hit the Foretravel binders for the manufacturer and part number for the spindle and housing -- preparatory -- for "hitting the wrecking yards for a complete assembly."
Info is potentially here (from the 2003 U320 Parts Manual)
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: AC7880 on February 15, 2023, 12:58:19 am
Spoke in person with a shop 2 miles from my home base Escapees Co-op park where I am right now. (Sutherlin OR, north of Roseburg, south of Eugene, I-5 cooridor).
Took photographs I have posted here, part numbers, Michelle's provided parts diagrams and part numbers, and my own gathered part numbers to the shop, spoke with 2 different shop managers/mechanics.
This is the shop at link, does both road service and have their own shop indoors as well. Diesel Shop, Truck Repair - Mobile Diesel Service - Sutherlin, Oregon (https://mobilediesel.co/) They work on big rigs, have serviced fire trucks, and know air disk brakes.
They are aware of the 5 previous seal replacements, with dates and mileage on the last 3.
What they propose is tear down, inspection of all components, cleaning up what they can in any metal damage/corrosion, new seal of different design, using silicone when placing new seal, and staying with oil bath lube. New races and bearings at same time. Inspect hub for cracks, closely check seal fit against spindle.
As a fulltimer, I asked they have all parts on hand in advance if we schedule this (seal, races, bearings). They believe based on photo the brake pads are OK.
They are not fans of changing to grease over oil bath. State gear oil bath runs cooler, carries any contaminates away better, and easier to inspect on regular basis.
Photo attached of seal type they prefer and have used with silicone during install before.
If they find the spindle damaged, they have used a mobile service based in CA that comes up a couple of times per year on regular routes, that cuts off damaged spindles and welds on new spindle. They have only used this on semi trailers in the past. They do not know without calls and research if that service can match the spindle on the tag axle.
They can do this in the next couple of weeks if I decide to proceed. I have no long distance road trips planned until August or September. I may do a two hundred miles short trip before then, especially if I have this done to see if it fixes it. Hopefully even a short trip would show some slinging and hub oil drop if not successful.
If I proceed, I asked that I be called to look myself and take more photos while torn down, before re-assembly. No objection on their part. If I were to use Cummins in Coburg OR they allow no customers in work area.
I have no great confidence this is the way to go, but might be worth one more shot. If this doesn't solve it, and spindle passes muster, next step may be grease packing the bearings. Might even ask they do the grease pack on this go round.
I hope the spindle does not have to be replaced. That would require the entire tag axle to include both sides as I understand it.
One more note: I did not discuss what weight gear oil to use, and whther or not to use Lucas hub oil (that I have in there right now). I did first suction of gear oil out and added Lucas about 400 miles ago, then a second time 200 miles ago. Still dropping in level on road trips.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: John44 on February 15, 2023, 07:43:14 am
For the price you are going to pay I would definitely do some research on my own,I would not pack with grease on a design meant to use oil,what specifically are they doing with the silicone?,it will not help with your leak,from your pictures it looks like a previous seal ran dry and gouged the spindle,research seals and look for the same size seal that will ride on a different spot on the spindle,forgot the exact name but some seal makers have these for problems like yours.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 15, 2023, 08:41:12 am
This is the shop at link, does both road service and have their own shop indoors as well. Diesel Shop, Truck Repair - Mobile Diesel Service - Sutherlin, Oregon (https://mobilediesel.co/) They work on big rigs, have serviced fire trucks, and know air disk brakes.
What they propose is tear down, inspection of all components, cleaning up what they can in any metal damage/corrosion, new seal of different design, using silicone when placing new seal, and staying with oil bath lube. New races and bearings at same time. Inspect hub for cracks, closely check seal fit against spindle.
As a fulltimer, I asked they have all parts on hand in advance if we schedule this (seal, races, bearings). They believe based on photo the brake pads are OK.
Thoughts?
Last things first: It's amazing how fast the work can be done the first time you offer fresh brewed coffee for their mid morning break. We once spent the night in front of the tire store when there weren't enough tires to go around.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Protech Racing on February 15, 2023, 10:41:01 am
You don't need bearings. You need to find a guy that can figure out why your seal is spinning in the hub . Simple as that . Remove the other side , see where that seal rides, note the seal number and solve the problem. Throwing the same parts at it again will have the same result . Where would any silicone go ? A light film of thread sealant or blue loctite around the seal may help. There appears to be a chance that the hub is worn where the seal fits. Measure the hub and compare to the other side . Copy success
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 15, 2023, 05:56:08 pm
You don't need bearings. You need to find a guy that can figure out why your seal is spinning in the hub . Simple as that . Remove the other side , see where that seal rides, note the seal number and solve the problem. Throwing the same parts at it again will have the same result . Where would any silicone go ? A light film of thread sealant or blue loctite around the seal may help. There appears to be a chance that the hub is worn where the seal fits. Measure the hub and compare to the other side . Copy success
[unnecessary comment removed - Michelle]
This may be the company your latest shop is talking about:
Axle Surgeons (https://axlesurgeons.com/)
It looks like they cut the your old spindle off the axle tube and weld on a new spindle, that goes 7" deep into the axle tube with a plug weld to fix the inside end in place.
To the best of my knowledge, this is where the inner bearing race rides:
Enlarge it and look at the transfer when the race spun at some time in the past.
Right now the only way to find the problem and fix it is accurate measurements. For all the labor that's going to go into this a new pair of tapered roller bearings and outer races is inexpensive.
Title: Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa
Post by: craneman on February 15, 2023, 06:10:42 pm
Caterpillar had a product to take up to .015 clearance on loose bearings and races. Similar to the product below.
Permatex® Bearing Mount for Relaxed Fits 50 ml - No. 68050 - Whitehead... (https://whiteheadindustrial.com/permatex-bearing-mount-for-relaxed-fits-50-ml-no-68050/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjqm4ptKY_QIVh8GGCh1GSAraEAQYBCABEgLxbPD_BwE)
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on March 01, 2023, 07:36:42 pm
Cause of constant loss of hub oil at drivers tag axle discovered and fixed by shop in the post immediately above.
Bad weld from original build in 2003. Gap in the weld allowed oil to constantly drip then sling. Cleaned up and welded. I am 99.9 percent sure this is the final fix, after 2 shops failed to find it with previous owner, and 3 shops failed to find it during our ownership.
Pics attached. I also have a very good small video proving this as the cause that cannot be attached here (soap, air, air flow with bubbles) . If anyone want to see it, I can email it to you. PM with email address if you want to view it.
As per the shop (MOBILE DIESEL SERVICE, Inc., off I-5 in Sutherlin Oregon) " Appears spindle was welded incorrectly from factory, welds aren't complete causing the leak."
Thanks to all who spent time trying to help us get this resolved. And thanks to MDS in Sutherlin Oregon for digging deeper than just one more inner seal attempt.
Diesel Shop, Truck Repair - Mobile Diesel Service - Sutherlin, Oregon (https://mobilediesel.co/)
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Pamela & Mike on March 01, 2023, 08:28:30 pm
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought about an incomplete weld.
Mike
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: MMoore on March 02, 2023, 03:07:29 am
Thanks for the update. It might save someone from going through the same aggravation you experienced.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Old Toolmaker on March 02, 2023, 08:32:41 am
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought about an incomplete weld.
Mike
That's the sort of thing that keeps me awake at night. Keep in mind that the traditional tool room is the destination of last resort for problems other people have already tried to repair. Every morning I look in the mirror and remind myself that I'm paranoid. Followed by the question: Am I being paranoid enough today.
AC7880: Congratulations!!!!! Mazel Tov! Happy trails! Did you leave your coffee on the roof of your Toad?
Did the shop use Loctite Pore Sealant? You'd be upset to learn just how many aluminum transmission castings have been "repaired" at the factory in just this fashion.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Protech Racing on March 02, 2023, 11:08:18 am
Great find by someone that took the time to really look around. Well done by the tech. He or she deserves a tip.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on March 02, 2023, 11:19:29 am
Great find by someone that took the time to really look around. Well done by the tech. He or she deserves a tip.
Multiple people worked on it and looked at it. They had the complete history of attempts at repairs, and looked deeper than the other shops did. I took the shop 2 dozen donuts this morning when they opened.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on March 02, 2023, 11:22:21 am
Did the shop use Loctite Pore Sealant? You'd be upset to learn just how many aluminum transmission castings have been "repaired" at the factory in just this fashion.
If I had found this myself, I might have cleaned it up and tried JB weld. They welded it for me.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Protech Racing on March 02, 2023, 01:15:29 pm
Some old dodges had porous castings on the auto cases. The factory fix was to hammer the cases into submission..
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: dsd on March 02, 2023, 03:14:27 pm
Had to Chuckle out loud. Build a couple fuel tanks to learn how to prevent in the future. Stops are very prone to leak. Great find. Who woulda thunk 👍👍
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Old Toolmaker on March 02, 2023, 04:52:54 pm
If I had found this myself, I might have cleaned it up and tried JB weld. They welded it for me.
Grinding out that part of the weld and redoing it on both sides is the preferred method. I won't name names but in General Motor companies with aluminum casting problems are quick to grab the Loctite porosity cure, place the bet that the chemical will out-last the warranty and allow the owner to deal with the consequences.
Once again congratulations but it should have been caught after the first repair failed. Technicians need to look and not just do.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: dsd on March 02, 2023, 05:09:10 pm
Crazy to think how much was spent chasing a repair. Time and aggravation also. Hopefully your able to put behind you.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Old Toolmaker on March 02, 2023, 05:45:01 pm
They couldn't plug their computer in to tell them what was wrong. Fewer and fewer mechanics around.
Except for my connection to the outside world, and even now I'm operating a 2012 13" Apple MacBook Pro, I gave up learning new computer systems decades ago. Hence the 5.9l 12V Cummins. I have better ways to use my time.
IF you want to watch some auto porn, this guy wades through the modern auto and repairs stuff the dealer can't or won't do without a massive infusion of cash with no guarantee the repair will work.
South Main Auto Repair LLC on YouTube.
Lynn and I watch one every so often to remind ourselves just what a great car Studebaker made.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Michelle on March 03, 2023, 12:16:56 pm
Getting off topic here...
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Old Toolmaker on March 03, 2023, 12:23:38 pm
FWIW my guess is that there was oil on the parts being welded causing the two blow holes.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: Digger337 on March 05, 2023, 03:12:35 pm
I see the problem on #4 hub pic, your caliper seal is failed and the caliper slide is rusty and causing your brakes to drag all the time. This creates excess heat that will overheat the hub and blow the seal out or force the oil out ( leak). "Frozen" caliper is the cause.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: rbark on March 05, 2023, 07:02:54 pm
See reply # 80
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on March 07, 2023, 12:21:30 pm
I see the problem on #4 hub pic, your caliper seal is failed and the caliper slide is rusty and causing your brakes to drag all the time. This creates excess heat that will overheat the hub and blow the seal out or force the oil out ( leak). "Frozen" caliper is the cause.
Good catch on the caliper seal. I'll add that to my future to do list for service.
They found the leak and welded it. But it does sure look like the caliper seal needs replaced.
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on June 06, 2023, 05:09:56 pm
Good catch on the caliper seal. I'll add that to my future to do list for service.
They found the leak and welded it. But it does sure look like the caliper seal needs replaced.
It is time to fix the tag axle caliper seal, and my local shop ordered the caliper seal kit. What else should I have on hand for parts (and part number if known).
I found pads kit part 15626PM. Is that what I need for possible corrosion due to bad caliper seal, or is something else?
Edit: Talking to repair shop, I think replacing only that damaged dust seal is needed, and only on one side.
No impact to even braking or any other parts that I or repair shop can envision. Thanks!!
Title: Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway
Post by: AC7880 on June 17, 2023, 09:36:52 pm
Update on correct part number for caliper dust seal for future reference.:
Correct part # is Kit 15012 . Meritor no longer has this part number in stock, though available elsewhere. Meritor now uses 2 caliper design versus the one on our older Foretravels.
Still not replaced as wrong part number was ordered (2 caliper kit). Since it was a small tear, I just had it cleaned up and silicon over the tear. No affect on braking, just a dust seal. Did not have time to leave it in the shop awaiting correct part number. If I ever need a brake job on tag axle, I will replace it then.
Very pricey part for being such small low tech part. Figure on $242 if needed. Foretravel of Texas does not have it