Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 07:45:05 pm

Title: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 07:45:05 pm
I have read and searched on hear about filters, including that long one a few years ago where Donaldson said there was not a blue filter for the ECG11-2001 housing and you should use the P14-8043. 

I ordered one and it took almost a week to get here. Below are pics of the old one, it is very dirty with about 30K miles on it. I was about to put the new one on when I see this manufacturing defect. Ugh. The box was sealed so the vendor would not have been aware of it. My concern is dirt could could into the gap , bypassing the filter. I cannot say for sure that it will occur but for the price and importance of these, I expect one with no defects. This is headed back tomorrow. Would you use it?

I guess I will get one from Fastenal, it's more but at least I can inspect it. Unless someone else has a place. (Looks like Ryder fleet is out of business).
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: MarkC on October 18, 2021, 08:09:16 pm
Jason, I wouldn't use it. For sure return it if you can.  I use the Fleetguard listed below. $95 on Amazon. Be to you in about 3 days.

Amazon.com: Fleetguard Air Filter Primary Part No: AF1838 : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Fleetguard-Air-Filter-Primary-Part/dp/B01IW4W7MY)
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 08:25:47 pm
Jason, I wouldn't use it. For sure return it if you can.  I use the Fleetguard listed below. $95 on Amazon. Be to you in about 3 days.

Amazon.com: Fleetguard Air Filter Primary Part No: AF1838 : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Fleetguard-Air-Filter-Primary-Part/dp/B01IW4W7MY)

Does the inside of the filter have a metal mesh like the outside?
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 18, 2021, 08:27:59 pm
Looks like shipping damage to me. A pair of pliers would probably straighten the tin then take a look. If it were mine, that is what I would do. Looks like the same Donaldson as my blue one. Even has the gauge hole.

Pierce
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 08:35:00 pm
It is not the bent tin that is concerning, it's the spacing next to it that does not come to the edge. Maybe it was pushed in but the box came sealed inside of a large box, so I am inclined to think it left the factory like this.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 18, 2021, 08:37:35 pm
Jason,

If you want the new blue Donaldson filter it should be DBA 5029 that replaces the P148043.

Mike

on edit: Just found out that the number may have been changed to EAF 5029
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: MarkC on October 18, 2021, 09:08:15 pm
And yes on the Fleetguard, it does have the mesh inside.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 09:20:53 pm
Jason,

If you want the new blue Donaldson filter it should be DBA 5029 that replaces the P148043.

Mike

on edit: Just found out that the number may have been changed to EAF 5029

Ok, maybe this is new, but I thought the consensus was the ECG2011 housing did not have a blue equivalent.

This is the thread I was referencing, specifically what Barry had emailed Donaldson about. Post 98 & 106.
Possible water in air filter? (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30332.msg264076#msg264076)

In post 101, Don said the DBA 5029 is the same dimensions but did not have the filter minder hole. Note that Donaldson support did not approve of a blue filter.

All that said, are you running the EAF 5029? Does it have the filter minder hole now? This is not a deal breaker.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: hdff on October 18, 2021, 09:38:57 pm
I've read that the filter minder is a 50/50 guess on anything, not very reliable... Donaldson blue is a good filter and if you want one with a hole in it for the filter minder drill it yourself, I did for some reason, just be careful to get all the metal shavings out..... Just curious did your filter minder say your old one was dirty and needing replaced or did you just do it on a PM?


Keith
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 10:00:55 pm
I am still baselining, so this was PM, definitely glad I did (Oil changes are next. )

The filterminder did not show it needed it but it may not have worked as you said.

Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 18, 2021, 10:02:13 pm
What is the difference between the DBA5029 and the EAF5029?
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 18, 2021, 10:14:27 pm
Here are all the Donaldson filters with x-refs: https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/donaldson/engine-hydraulics-bulk/literature/emea/donaldson-blue/f116087/eng/Donaldson-Blue-Premium-Filtration.pdf

Pierce
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: dsd on October 18, 2021, 10:46:00 pm
What is the difference between the DBA5029 and the EAF5029?
Donaldson BlueTM        Donaldson Stan-    Fleetguard    Baldwin      Luber-finer      Wix          Primary Application dard

 DBA5029 (EAF5029)    P150694                  AF1846          PA2660      LAF694          46876.    Donaldson ECG11 Air Cleaner
 
Appears to be the same
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on October 18, 2021, 10:48:15 pm
Air Cleaner Quality (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35374.msg330543#msg330543)

If your filter canister has the air in from the side and out the end use the DBA5029 or equivalent part number.  The DBA5024 is for canisters in on the end and out the side.

If you want to use a filter minder you need to add a filter gasket and PUNCH a small hole.  DO NOT drill a hole, it leaves metal shavings that you fill never clean out.

I don't use the filter minder.  The Cummins engine specialist that rebuilt my ISM11 after a filter failure (>$25K) told me to replace the filter every three years as a regular maintenance item.  I change it every three years.

AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted! (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=25391.0)

In this post I said Cummins checked the air filter on our last service on our ISM11.  They checked the filter minder.  The engine specialist told me that if the canister is opened then the filter must be replaced.  There is no safe way to "check" it. Get the best filter you can and replace it every three years.  The best filters are about $100 if you shop.  The one that failed in my coach was a $70 filter, the wrong one.  So for $30 I am going to go with the right one, the best you can get and do it every three years.  It wasn't a hard choice for me.

We have an ISM11 on our 2001 coach.  The filter system in your coach may be different and the advice as well. 

My last Donaldson DBA 5029 came from Diesel Equipment Online. Donaldson Filters for Diesel Trucks, Engines and Tractors (https://www.dieselequipmentinc.com/)
Search: 10 results found for "Dba5029" – Donaldson Filters (https://www.dieselequipmentinc.com/search?q=Dba5029).  It was $95 including shipping.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: dsd on October 18, 2021, 11:07:38 pm
Jason I added the Donaldson precleaner used on the off-road equipment. This reduced a lot of the contamination. Mandatory update for me.

Donaldson Precleaner (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41252.msg410468#msg410468)

Donaldson H000878 (https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/H000878/12416?_requestid=8308893)

Scott
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 19, 2021, 12:05:50 am
I have to disagree with Roger. Every model of Foretravel has a different filter lifespan. The later coaches rectified, or at least tried to overcome the huge design fault in the GVs with their air cleaner intake right behind the rear wheels where anything and everything is picked up and sucked up. Our U300/Detroit uses somewhere around three times the air compared to a U280/Cummins so goes through air cleaners quite a bit faster that a U280 or U240. And many times faster than a U320 with their much higher air intake.  The five inch exhaust pipe is just a hint of how much air it uses.

Our air cleaner that came with our coach had dirt and sticks coating the exterior so there was no trace of the paper pleats or metal visible. The next filter, a Wix, was partially collapsed by water sucked up by the road with only luck keeping it from dusting our engine. With the behind the wheels air intake, the air filter on a pre 1994 U300 can be ruined by one trip down a really dusty road. This is why Foretravel finally moved the intake to well above the dock light and behind the radiator grill.

Any trip on a wet road will cause the filter minder to go to the end, indicating a clogged filter when I stop. I do pull it out to give it a once over a couple times a year and may or may not change it. I do rely on the filter minder as I figure there is a reason most all diesels and generators have one. Cummins, CAT and Detroits all have different limits and owners should be aware of these maximum restrictions.

Our Detroit has 110K plus miles and only used 2 1/2 quarts on a coast to coast RT trip right after an oil change.

Pierce
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: John44 on October 19, 2021, 02:00:56 am
Sounds like the specialist in Roger,s post is also a filter salesman,think fora moment,you open the
Canister,pull out old filter,clean inside of canister,if filter looks good reuse,if too dirty use a new one,not rocket science.Best thing anyone can do is install the prefilter if yuo don,t have one.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on October 19, 2021, 09:49:23 am
Everyone gets to do what they want to do. It is your money, your coach, your engine, and your hazard.  The engine specialist at Cummins rebuilds engines from small ones like ours to massive tow boat and locomotive engines. He sells nothing, just offered up advice from many years of experience regarding our ISM11 and the filter system as it was installed.

I'll keep changing my air filter every three years.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: bbeane on October 19, 2021, 10:09:33 am
I change mine yearly,6-10K for miles. Standard Donaldson filter. It's quite dirty, 100 bucks or so cheap insurance. What can be wrong with opening the filter can and checking the filter if you want to? Unless of course you don't clean the can and lid before reinstalling the filter. Your coach your $$$$ do what works for you.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 19, 2021, 10:39:25 am
Unless the filter is wet and in danger of collapsing, a filter with a little use may filter better than a new one. If you do a lot of dirt roads and have a bad air intake location, you may need one sooner. Read Donaldson's site on how their filters reach optimum efficiency faster than other.

Once the restriction on the gauge goes past the recommendations for that manufacturer, the diesel may experience higher EGTs, especially up at altitude. More for mechanical engines. See attachment for limits.

Pierce
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: bbeane on October 19, 2021, 11:02:10 am
Pierce, I fully understand that a slightly dusty filter is more efficient. In my application we run a lot of dusty areas that load up
my filter pretty good, someone else's use and mileage may be completely different. With that said a new filter will most certainly filter any particles that may damage an engine. The answer is there is no need to over service an air filter as long as you understand your use.  However I have found that in my 40 + years of vehicle and heavy equipment repair and maintenance a new filter never damaged a motor.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 19, 2021, 12:57:23 pm
Pierce, I fully understand that a slightly dusty filter is more efficient. In my application we run a lot of dusty areas that load up
my filter pretty good, someone else's use and mileage may be completely different. With that said a new filter will most certainly filter any particles that may damage an engine. The answer is there is no need to over service an air filter as long as you understand your use.  However I have found that in my 40 + years of vehicle and heavy equipment repair and maintenance a new filter never damaged a motor.
But for the most part, engine damage is not a connecting rod failure or any other catastrophic damage but a shortening of the TBO otherwise known as time between overhaul. While it's important to monitor the air cleaner, changing oil is the most important act of wear prevention you can make. As I have posted before, our 300SD has 450K miles now but while I have periodically inspected the air cleaner, I've only changed it two or three times. While a mildly dirty air cleaner may filter the air better than a new one, it's contaminated oil and the tiny abrasive particles/acids that cause the majority of bore wear. And bore wear in a diesel means less compression so harder starting, especially in cold weather. The engine may run as well, using only slightly more oil and may even produce as much power as when new. The over use of ether may further compound the wear. I do change the oil in the 300SD every 3-4000 miles along with the filter. The additives in modern oils only can protect for a short period against contaminates.

I bought a nice but inexpensive 220D in Germany with a super clean but very tired engine. Telltale black oil seeping from the dipstick holder was the only clue to the wear. It could not be parked for over 2 hours or it would not start. Before delivering it to the shipper in Frankfurt, we took it to the German Alps where we had a hotel well up above the main road. Each morning I would point it downhill and let the engine compression in second gear heat the air enough to get the engine running after about a quarter mile. After that, it was as smooth as glass and had plenty of power. But only short stops on the way back to the shipping company.

Pierce
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: gracerace on October 20, 2021, 12:17:15 pm
SORRY, LATE FOR THE PARTY

For me, every other oil change 4-5K miles, it gets a Donaldson filter (find them cheap on ebay, just shop for them, plenty of old stock, roll ends, close outs cheap.). If it was good enough for FT, then it's good enough for me.

Most know this, but never blow out the can, wipe out with moist rag. Every other oil change, I pull the filter, and blow filter out, if I have any doubt it's too dirty, it gets a new Donaldson.

Restrictor gauge (which is new) never moves off lowest setting.But then again, I don't drive on dirt very often, too anal about keeping my motor clean.Side fans stir up a ton of dirt.

Like Bruce said, a new air filter can never hurt an engine, just like fresh oil can't either. Cheap insurance.

How can changing an air filter, be so complicated?

Chris
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: dans96u295ft on October 20, 2021, 01:28:02 pm
My air filter will not come out just opening the end up.  It won't clear on a 1996 Cummins. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: wolfe10 on October 20, 2021, 01:54:35 pm
Picture of where it doesn't clear?
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: nbluesky on October 20, 2021, 04:54:47 pm
Jason I added the Donaldson precleaner used on the off-road equipment. This reduced a lot of the contamination. Mandatory update for me.

Donaldson Precleaner (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41252.msg410468#msg410468)

Donaldson H000878 (https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/H000878/12416?_requestid=8308893)

Scott

My coach has one of these installed. I had to look it up to see what it does, I feel better knowing it is there. Motor dusting is scary with these big beasts. Add up to real coach bucks quick!
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on October 20, 2021, 07:18:05 pm
Scott- I am going to get one of those. To confirm, there is not a filter that goes in, I did not see one. And it's the 6"?

I ended up ordering the AF1838 from shop.cummins.com, got my account setup there (also a bonus for the 5.9 I have). Two day delivery so should be here tomorrow.
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: dsd on October 20, 2021, 08:44:18 pm
Scott- I am going to get one of those. To confirm, there is not a filter that goes in, I did not see one. And it's the 6"?

I ended up ordering the AF1838 from shop.cummins.com, got my account setup there (also a bonus for the 5.9 I have). Two day delivery so should be here tomorrow.
No air filter and no moving parts. It does have a vacuator that will require random replacement. Yes six inch
Amazon.com: P103198 Donaldson Original Vac Valve : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/P103198-Donaldson-Original-Vac-Valve/dp/B015YREKQ8?ie=UTF8&tag=foreforums-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957)

Speaking of vacuator valves. Your air filter housing also has one and also needs to be randomly replaced also. If its loose or stiff it wont do its job. Also it can allow large amounts of water into the the engine inlet if its missing.

P149099 by DONALDSON - Vacuator Valve (https://www.finditparts.com/products/238281/donaldson-p149099?srcid=CHL01SCL010-Npla-Dmdt-Gusa-Svbr-Mmuu-K238281-L162&gclid=CjwKCAjwhYOFBhBkEiwASF3KGfelicKczEnOsx48eQ7OhvJ5WHCvcej7r1YARp3qyNe9y8iKktKOyxoCTyMQAvD_BwE)

Scott
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Elliott on October 21, 2021, 01:18:46 pm
The Donaldson DBA5029 is on back order until December 30th. P150694  is the "standard life" version. Has anyone run that? Wondering if I should snag one of those @ $70 until the 5029's are available. Otherwise there's an EAF5029 on Amazon for $140
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 21, 2021, 01:51:39 pm
How about rebuilding it with an air hose?

Pierce >:D
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Elliott on November 04, 2021, 02:11:24 pm
Support at Diesel Equipment Inc just informed me that they heard back from Donaldson finally and they have discontinued the DBA5029 completely. You can now only get the standard-life version: Donaldson P150694 (https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/P150694/15682)
Title: Re: Donaldson Air Filter
Post by: Jason on November 04, 2021, 10:12:37 pm
Thanks Elliot.

I went with the Fleetguard AF1838, took an extra day but if anyone wants to see what it looks like, here ya go.