heading to Cummins tomorrow for overhead set adjustment.
will check coolant for SCA concentration.
Anything else they should look at while I'm there?
Only check SCA concentration if you have the older generation coolant.
There are different test strips for the newer generation coolants.
Ya, it is important for them to know what you have if they are going to test it.
One of the beauties of the newer long life coolants is put it in and forget it-- no testing or adding anything for a minimum of 6 years/300,000 miles. Some are even longer life than that!
can you explain older generation vs newer generation?
Coach came with one of these which is what I've been using
There are several different coolant chemistries-- each different.
The "old generation" was "Low silicate coolant for diesel with added SCA". The SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additive) is used up as it protects the cylinder liners from cavitation erosion. So, SCA concentration needs to be tested periodically and the correct amount of SCA added to bring concentration back to where it should be. It can be added as a liquid or in water filters with added SCA.
The newer generation/OAT based coolants do not use SCA and with them you use a water filter BLANK which has full filtration, but zero SCA.
i have the WF 2077 filter- blank without SCA.
Do you know what coolant you have?
Its age?
This came with the coach so I think....
But, you think it is ORIGINAL= 18 years old?
A good coolant, but if so, certainly time to change it.
When we bought the coach almost 2.5 yrs ago we had a coolant analysis done that came back normal. Pic below
Then there was a complete removal and repair of the radiator and fan drive motors in 2010.
Even if the coolant is only 11 years old (2010) still time for a change. Compared with the cost of damage to the engine or cooling system, changing coolant cost is noise level.
Changing coolant is definitely not complicated. Time consuming to do correctly-- yes.
But, most owners with even very basic mechanical skill will do a better job than a shop because the shop can't take the time to do the flushes that an owner can do.
If you want the step by steps, let us know.
Sure
Cooling System 101
I just changed out my coolant and replaced all water hoses and belts. Thought I would share the experience.
Coolant needs to be changed per manufacturer's instructions (usually every 3 years for regular low silicate for diesel with added SCA coolant). Additionally the SCA, pH and freeze point need to be checked on regular intervals using SCA test strips and SCA added as needed. The test strips are inexpensive and easy to use. When either the time lapses (time starts when coolant is installed in cooling system, NOT when purchased) or testing reveals an out-of-line conditions like pH or freeze point, it is time to change it. You can avoid all the testing and SCA adding, and go to 6 year change intervals by going to an Extended Life Coolant and get better cooling system protection as well. Whichever coolant you choose, most of the steps are the same. The job is reasonably time consuming TO DO RIGHT, but low-tech.
The new-generation OAT-based coolants such as Caterpillar ELC and Fleetguard ES Complet-OAT have a longer life-- generally in the 6 year range with no testing or adding of extenders unless over 300,000 miles have been driven. A big problem with these excellent coolants-- lots of techs are not chemists-- they see a coolant filter and automatically run grab a filter-- often with units of SCA. This is a good idea for the regular low silicate coolants, but are just a contaminant to OAT-based coolants.
OK, so you are going to change coolant. First step is to determine your total cooling system capacity. Your chassis maker or coach maker, not your engine manufacturer is the proper source. Then buy enough coolant (concentrate, not pre-dilute) to make up 50% of that volume. If going back with a coolant that requires additional SCA, purchase that as well. Also purchase 1.5 times system capacity of distilled water for a final flush plus final fill (50%). Also a good idea to change the engine thermostat and thermostat gasket as these are a wearing component and it involves very little more work while you are there. I know Caterpillar recommends thermostat (they call them regulators) every 3 years.
Turn dash heater to full hot for the rest of the procedure—fan off. With the engine cold or at least cool, drain coolant. On some, there is a drain cock. On others, pull the lower radiator hose. Two Rubbermade 10 gallon storage bin lined with black trash sacks so they don't get dirty work well. At the end of the whole process, use a coffee can and funnel to pour old coolant into new coolant/water containers for recycling. Our city maintenance shop recycles coolant for free.
Refill cooling system with tap water. IMPORTANT: Be sure to remove any air lock from the thermostat housing. Some systems have a hose set up for this—on ours I just loosen the coolant line to the air pump and bleed the air out. Allow engine to warm up (using the cruise control to select idle speed of 1,000-1,100 speeds this up). Run for about 10 minutes after regular temperature is reached. If the temp gauge does not rise as normal, you likely have an air block and need to bleed the thermostat housing. Allow engine to cool 20-30 minutes and drain again. Repeat until the effluent color is clear.
At this point, if this is the first coolant change on a 2-3 year old coach and you are not changing coolant brands/types, skip right to "Last rinse". For older systems, contaminated systems or when switching types of coolant, add a Cooling System Cleaner. Follow the directions. Run, allow engine to cool, drain and again flush until effluent is clear. The flushing is markedly sped up by pulling off the heater hose (usually 5/8" to ¾" lines) going to dash heater/motor-aid water heater, etc from the water pump. Put a hose nozzle in the hose and let it run until it comes out clear. Run the engine to temperature at least once with tap water.
If your hoses are over 5-6 years old, this is a good time to change them as well (before last rinse). Same for thermostat(s).
Last rinse is with distilled water. At $.85/gal at Walmart, it is silly to skip this step and leave your system full of high-mineral content water (there will be several gallons of residual water that you can not easily remove). Run engine for 10 minutes after getting to operating temperature. Cool and drain. Also drain and flush your coolant overflow container and refill with new coolant/distilled water.
Add the proper amount of Coolant CONCENTRATE (NOT PRE-DILUTE) to make 50% of cooling system capacity. So for a cooling system with 20 gallons capacity, add 10 gallons of Coolant CONCENTRATE (plus 1/2 overflow container capacity). Top off with distilled water to achieve your 50/50 mixture—it doesn't matter if you only have to add 1 gallon or 10 of distilled water, you KNOW you have the proper 50/50 mixture.
This is also a good time to clean the OUTSIDE of the radiator/after-cooler whether you have rear or side radiator. On rear radiator, most if the debris will be on the FRONT of the after-cooler (accessed from under the bed). On side radiators, most debris is on the outside of the after-cooler (side of coach). If it is just dirt, a hose and regular nozzle is all you need. If greasy or oily, use Joy liquid (dish washing detergent) in a spray bottle. Be SURE to rinse it off completely. You need to insure that the perimeter is as clean as the center. Ya, I know it is easier to see the center, but the fan blades "sling" the dirt to the perimeter.
Check belts while you are in there.
Got to ask,by "overhead set adjustment" do you mean check valve clearence?,or does that engine have more adjustments?
The M-11 & ISM only has valve adjustments on the upper end. Electronic fuel injection.
So, Cal Pacific Cummins of El Cajon lied to me when the service manager and the tech that worked on my engine " checked the injectors?
The inhibitors in ROTELLA ELC, due to their special chemistry, are designed to go 600,000 miles on-road or 12,000 hours off-road without the need of ELC Extender. After 600,000 miles or 12,000 hours it is recommended that the coolant be tested for continued use.
https://www.mil-specproducts.com/documents/834_RotellaELCpds.pdf
Good question, not adjusted but checked. Maybe a scan tool of some sort.
Thanks Scott,
The only issue is that I don't have any paperwork showing what is in the cooling system.
The only reason I have the Rotella is because a bottle came with The coach when I purchased it.
I have used it in the generator and in The ISM cooling system so far without a problem.
Wolf10
On changing the coolant, why are you adamant about only using concentrate vs 50/50. If the 50/50 is ELC why does it matter?
I just picked up this U320 (88k miles) and don't know when or if the coolant has been changed. I'm assuming I should test it so maybe you could point me in the right direction on how to do it and what I'm looking for when testing. If I do replace it, sounds like I should just go ELC right?
As far as hoses go, do I just look for Cummins part numbers or are the hoses not specific to Cummins but to Foretravel...same question for thermostat.
Thanks in advance, learning as quick as I can and soaking as much info as possible from folks like you about preventative maintenance so my first DP doesn't turn into a nightmare. 😁
Not Brett but this might give you something to think about till he chimes in.
1. When you flush the cooling system with distilled water there is always some trapped in the block and hoses that you can't get out. So if you use a 50/50 premix you end up with a lot less antifreeze than you think you have.
2. If you don't know it is best to err on the side of caution and do a change. It ain't that hard and not that much $ compaired to the damage that can happen.
2a. Test are done with test strips. Different strips for different chemistry so if you don't know which antifreeze you have then you don't know which strips to use. The instructions are on the test strip package.
3. That depends, if you will keep up with the chemistry of regular ethylene glycol it has worked good for years. If you want to do less maintenance with the latest engineered product then I would surly go with ELC. If you use ELC will be cheaper in the long run.
4. Some are Cummins some are FT but most can be sourced off the net. as Cummins nor FT make hoses. Now some are silicone and will outlive you.
4a. Cummins, I wouldn't use a just as good as or almost as good as in this application.
5. Keep asking questions and you will be fine.
I think that covers all that you ask.
Mike
Yes, as Mike said, you will have several GALLONS of water (distilled water) in the system-- the hoses from engine to dash heater core and water heater as well as those devices themselves.
Once you have added 1/2 system capacity in CONCENTRATE, you don't care if you only add 1 gallon or 10 of distilled water-- you know that you will have the correct 50/50 mixture.
And, anytime you don't know the age, condition or chemistry of coolant, CHANGE IT! Noise level cost compared with eroding cylinder liners or taking out the radiator if acidic. Just call it very smart preventive maintenance.
Brett,
Thanks for the explanation. I guess I am a bit slow but now I understand the "why" of it.
Richard
Thanks Brett & Mike...
Looks like I'll be changing the coolant out...I'll pick one of the ELC's and follow your write up on the procedure.
Thanks again.
I ended up going with Final Charge ELC coolant for the simple reason of it being really easy to find across the country. In case of a breakdown, I can source it. Some of the other coolants are hard to find on the shelf.
Was thinking about going with the Chevron Delo ELC when I replace my engine coolant, anyone have any heart burn about that? There's many ELC's out there but just wanted to make sure this one isn't missing some ingredient I need or has one it shouldn't.
The M11 and ISM DOES have a mechanical adjustment for the fuel injectors. It's covered in your engine owners manual and service manual. These engines do NOT have a high pressure fuel injection pump. There is a low pressure fuel pump driven off the end of the air compressor, 160 psi is what I remember. Each injector is a mechanical pump, driven off the camshaft, with an electrical solenoid that releases fuel into the engine. The longer the solenoid is pulsed open by the ECM the more fuel injected. Excess fuel is returned to the fuel tank. The mechanical adjustment is rather important but typically doesn't change after properly set. However if that adjustment is too tight it will damage that injector requiring injector replacement. I expect the ISX works the same way.
Good information if an injector has to be changed.
Don't have either of these engines but sounds very Detroit Diesel regarding the cam driven injectors. No injection pump, never knew this. So, setting the clearances on injectors is kind of like running the rack? (with the addition of electronic injector control)?
Thanks David for the good information.
Chuck,
1. After working on both over the years I would say they are verry similar
2. The injector operation on this age engine is closer to how the injectors work on the Isuzu 3LD1 that are in some of our generators. But yes no real high pressure pump except in the injector.
3. Yes
I have a set of instructions from school that explains how to set the injectors along with the valves and how to read the timing marks. If I could make this a pdf file I would post it as several DIY people here could use it. The purple Cummins book has the info but it is harder to understand than the school hand outs.
Mike