Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 12:30:43 pm
Title: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 12:30:43 pm
I have a solar related question for our Forum electrical gurus.
We are gonna have some solar sales people come by the next couple weeks to give us bids on putting in a PV system for our house. I don't want to get into all the various things involved with designing a home solar system. I want to keep this thread focused (if such a thing is possible) to one question, which I will get to eventually.
We keep our coach parked in our driveway whenever we are at home, which for the past almost 2 years has been most of the time. The coach is plugged into a 50A socket which is connected to our main house breaker panel. We have a Samsung fridge in the coach which is kept running all the time cuz we use it for extra food storage. We like to keep our coach interior temp in the range of 50-80 degrees all the time. This requires using the air conditioners (either one or both) in hot months, and multiple electric heaters in cold months.
I don't care to hear any comments on the wisdom of how we operate our coach when it is parked - it is what it is. 8)
When temperatures are moderate (doesn't require heaters or A/C) I turn off shore power to the coach and let our solar panels maintain the batteries and power the fridge (through the inverter). Sadly, we don't get "moderate" temps in West TX much of the year. We usually have one day of Fall, and one day of Spring...otherwise it is Summer or Winter.
The solar salesmen will all want to know how much power we use in our house. This is like the very first question they ask. We have the past 12 months of electric bills, so it's easy to give them that number in kWh per year, or per month, or whatever. The problem is that having the coach plugged in distorts our power usage by inflating the number. In designing the solar system, I would like to shoot for producing around 100% of our average annual household consumption, or at least as close as we can afford. But I don't want to pay for the extra solar capacity needed to cover powering the coach.
So, my question - is there any easy way for me to figure out how much total power the coach is consuming on an annual basis? It varies so much from day to day and month to month... I have no idea how many days I run the A/C and how many days I run the heaters each year. We (on the Forum) have good numbers for the power consumption of the Samsung, thanks to Roger. I can add the fridge draw to the normal base line background power draw on our coach to come up with a kWh number for those two items. It's the air conditioning and heating that has me stumped, and of course they are the biggest power suckers.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: craneman on February 09, 2022, 12:50:59 pm
Chuck, you can find out what the A/C's in the coach draw by looking at your meter and not powering the A/C's in the house and reading one hour of power on the meter. Then turn on the A/C's in the coach and see the difference for one hour for A/C coach usage. Then do the same with the heaters. Not perfect but the best I can come up with. I don't think you can put up enough solar in your climate area to get 100% of your usage. I know I can't here in the San Fernando Valley and my winters don't need heat but summers really suck the power.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 12:54:28 pm
I don't think you can put up enough solar in your climate area to get 100% of your usage.
I'm sure you are correct. It's just something to look at (lust after) initially, and then scale back from there to a realistically affordable level.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: prfleming on February 09, 2022, 01:21:21 pm
To build on Craneman's idea and using the meter formula I posted here:
50A outlet in the generator compartment? (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41751.msg444871#msg444871)
You can time the meter disc for 1 revolution to get the watt usage and not have to run for an hour. For the tests measure the house baseline, then add each coach load, measure and subtract to find the difference. For example if the difference is 2000 watts with coach A/C on, then over an hour this would be 2 kWh. Then estimate how many hours the coach A/C is running each day on average and multiply by 30 to get your total monthly kWh usage, then x 12 for annual kWh usage.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 01:34:46 pm
Thanks for the help, Chuck and Peter, but I just answered my own question. And slapped myself in the head. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Sometimes I am such a dumb a$$ I wonder how I've managed to live so long.
We've lived in our house for 40+ years and nothing significant has changed that would affect our electric usage. We've owned our coach since late 2013. All I need to do is go back in my files and dig out the paper utility bills for a couple years prior to our purchase. Total the monthly usage for 12 months and come up with a average monthly kWh before plugging in the coach. SIMPLE!
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on February 09, 2022, 02:13:35 pm
We changed all the lighting in the U300 and the house to LEDs. All TVs LEDs. Can't save too much on wash/dry but our LG front loaders save water and are more efficient. Later dishwashers do also. We went to the top rated but inexpensive Bosch dishwasher and it does a great job on fairly clean dirty dishes in 30 minutes, dirtier dishes in a couple of hours and makes very little noise plus no electric rod but air blower. How about solar powered LED outside lighting including security lights? Low water usage toilets, shower heads, etc. How about a small storage tank? Could have a planter around it so not ugly. How old is your fridge? Older models can use the "green" https://www.envirogadget.com/energy-saving/savaplug-energy-saving-device-for-fridges-and-freezers/ Energy star appliances save energy also. You probably have a swamp cooler in W.Texas with your low humidity. Other ideas online.
Our coach inverters will supply the house but the batteries are 13 years old so I don't like to cycle them too much. We also have the transformer to convert to 220V for the well but I don't like to run the PowerTech too much.
We are a lot like West Texas with a short spring and short fall with lots of winter and one day after another of summer days of over 100. This winter has been the warmest on record and will get close to 80 in the Sierra foothills. Didn't even use the heater yesterday or last night.
Pierce
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: WS6_Keith on February 09, 2022, 02:16:52 pm
Sounds like you have a good handle on it Chuck. Here in Vegas we have a similar weather pattern it seems...2 weeks of spring and fall, the rest is summer or winter.
One thing I'll mention as it pertains to power draw is about the A/C's. When it's 115 here in Vegas, I would set the coach for 90* and both A/C's would be running quite a bit. I knew this was a big draw and wear and tear on those older roof mount units. I picked up a 14k BTU portable A/C unit and put it right in the middle of the living room, and ran the exhaust out the passenger side small side window. This unit only pulls ~900 watts to make 14k BTU of cooling, which is more efficient and saves the wear and tear on my roof units. I set it to 84 or so, and let it do the bulk of the work. If it fails, it's under Lowes warranty for a few years, and at $450 new, it's about 1/4 the price to replace one of those roof units. Just a thought for you if you endure the same kind of temps.
The other thing I will mention, since I have also been working on my solar and talking to the battery manufacturer (Lifeline) recently...there is not only a lifetime rating on batteries, but also a "cycles" rating on them. On those days you are unplugging from shore power and letting the solar maintain the batteries, each day is a cycle as you are draining the batteries over night and charging them again from the solar the next day. If you left it plugged in to shore power, the minimal power needed to maintain the batteries in the float mode keeps from cycling the batteries, which may prolong their life.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: craneman on February 09, 2022, 02:30:34 pm
Maybe an expert on batteries will clarify this. I thought a cycle was from charged to discharged and a charge to half charge would only be a half cycle. And so on for less discharged.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: craneman on February 09, 2022, 02:36:07 pm
Thanks for the help, Chuck and Peter, but I just answered my own question. And slapped myself in the head. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Sometimes I am such a dumb a$$ I wonder how I've managed to live so long.
We've lived in our house for 40+ years and nothing significant has changed that would affect our electric usage. We've owned our coach since late 2013. All I need to do is go back in my files and dig out the paper utility bills for a couple years prior to our purchase. Total the monthly usage for 12 months and come up with a average monthly kWh before plugging in the coach. SIMPLE!
I would have to go to the landfill to find my utility bills from 2013 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Jim Frerichs on February 09, 2022, 02:58:38 pm
Chuck,
Keep in mind early and late in the day and cloudy days will give you a lot less output. There isn't such a thing as too much solar - only the size of your wallet. Jim
2002 U320 42'
1000 watts on the coach and wish I had more
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: EddieNel on February 09, 2022, 03:18:41 pm
Lol I didn't want to say anything but that's hat I was thinking. Average utilities divided by years. I just googled average house hold usage per day for the US and it's 30kw. Just looked at my bill for last year and I'm double that.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 09, 2022, 03:44:14 pm
Chuck, we have about 12,000 watts of solar panels on our roof in a grid-tied system. (we sell excess power back into the grid, no storage component) Over the past 4 years, we have sold more power than we purchased. About 2 months' worth of consumption every year. This last year we were home most of the summer and it was unusually hot. I Ran AC for about 90 days vs a normal 12 days. We paid about $40 for the extra AC time.
Ask about micro inverters on each panel. Output is 220v AC. The cost is balanced against wiring, big DC to AC wall mounted inverters. Since installers like to match inverter size to production capacity, you can be left in a situation where adding panels gets very expensive because you need another big inverter. With micro inverters, you just connect them. The only size limit might be switches or circuit breakers.
MN is a very friendly solar power state. Not sure how it is in TX.
What your coach uses might be offset by what your house does not when you are away. And as you get older you will use more electricity for every reason you can think of. We were shooting for 120% of our annual use. It is probably low for us, someday the coach will be gone, we will be home more, MN is getting warmer, we are getting older.
If you can sell excess into the grid then set it up for that. If you have frequent power outages consider battery storage. It gets expensive, especially so, if you need a day or more of backup. I have 6 8Ds in my garage on a charger/inverter. Excess solar charge them, they would power refrain, freezer, some lights for maybe a day. Far longer than our longest outage in 20 years.
Do as much solar as you can. Maximize watts per sq ft. You will maybe want to put a new roof on before panels.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 05:57:57 pm
Sorry - had to take a break and watch the DVR recording of the Olympics from last night. Trying to stay caught up.
(Reply #5) Pierce, good ideas on saving electricity. There's definitely some places we could do better. We're spoiled cuz power is fairly cheap where we are...at least for now. We pay 8.3 cents per kWh bottom line price after delivery and all taxes and fees. Our fridge is very old and due to retire. Swamp cooler? No, afraid not - we have a heat pump for A/C and heat. Because of the DW's allergies we keep the house closed up and the heat pump runs almost every day one way or another.
(Reply #6) Keith, novel idea on the window unit to cool the coach when parked. Never thought of that! Our Atwood roof A/C units are only about a year old so should have a lot of life left in them. I'm not too much concerned about cycling our AGM8D coach batteries cuz they are 8 years old and probably approaching end-of-life, but still work OK. Need to ponder if I want more AGMs or go lithium... Getting old - gotta look at how much longer we might be physically capable of traveling in our coach.
(Reply #8) Chuck, some (unkind) people might consider us hoarders. I have paper records going back to the early 70's when we got married. Ever once in while, it comes in handy for looking up some obscure date or fact...like now. :thumbsup:
(Reply #9) Jim says "There isn't such a thing as too much solar - only the size of your wallet." Yes, mine (the wallet) keeps getting smaller every year. :'(
(Reply #10) Eddie, yes, that's about where my numbers fell for the house + the coach - about 69 kW per day. Haven't added it up (yet) for time before we got the coach.
(Reply #11) Roger - I've been reading about the Enphase IQ8 micros, and their AC-coupled batteries. Sounds interesting, but pricey.
What You Need to Know About Solar Batteries and Energy Storage | Enphase (https://www4.enphase.com/en-us/solar-batteries-enphase)
I am getting quotes on a ground based system. We just put a $20k new roof on our house last year, and I don't want them punching a bunch of holes in it. We have 2 acres of south facing unused property behind our house, and you may recall we had a 1/2 acre cleared a few months ago for the RV parking pad. I had in mind leaving adequate space for the solar racks when we did that...
Parts of TX are solar friendly (like Austin) and parts aren't (like Midland). I won't get any financial assistance on the local or state level, but at least the Federal 26% tax credit is still in effect. Don't know yet about selling back to our electric provider (Reliant). Need to check on that. We DO already have the fancy digital electric meter that communicates with the utility.
My first solar salesman (SunPro Solar) is coming out tomorrow. If the moderators don't mind leaving this thread open, I'll come back tomorrow and let you guys know what he says. I know many of you have lots of experience with solar, and I learn from every comment.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: turbojack on February 09, 2022, 06:05:24 pm
Roger, What is your cost per kwh for solar? Is that figuring in your installation cost?
I was going to ask if you had figured that out but as I was typing I knew that was going to be a dumb question for me to ask.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: EddieNel on February 09, 2022, 06:15:14 pm
Great thread. I've been thinking about solar panels. Didn't know about the micro inverters. From what I have read they are way more efficient.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: WS6_Keith on February 09, 2022, 07:34:15 pm
(Reply #6) Keith, novel idea on the window unit to cool the coach when parked. Never thought of that! Our Atwood roof A/C units are only about a year old so should have a lot of life left in them. I'm not too much concerned about cycling our AGM8D coach batteries cuz they are 8 years old and probably approaching end-of-life, but still work OK. Need to ponder if I want more AGMs or go lithium... Getting old - gotta look at how much longer we might be physically capable of traveling in our coach.
Just to clarify, not a window unit, but a portable that exhausts out the small window. My coach has a small sliding window next to the passenger seat that's about 8" x 8" or so. The exhaust hose for the unit is 6" diameter so I use the window adapter that came with it, cut down to fit, then taped in place. I put it in when I'm not using the coach and just wheel it out when we get ready to go. This is the unit I bought (in white): Amazon.com: LG 10,000 BTU (DOE) / 14,000 BTU (ASHRAE) Smart Portable Air... (http://www.amazon.com/LG-Portable-Conditioner-Smartphone-Control/dp/B094WZ1VDH)
(Reply #5) Pierce, good ideas on saving electricity. There's definitely some places we could do better. We're spoiled cuz power is fairly cheap where we are...at least for now. We pay 8.3 cents per kWh bottom line price after delivery and all taxes and fees.
That's super cheap. I bet it will take you many years to recoup the cost of the solar when your electric is that cheap. I pay $11.9/kWh here in Vegas.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 08:07:18 pm
That's super cheap. I bet it will take you many years to recoup the cost of the solar when your electric is that cheap. I pay $11.9/kWh here in Vegas.
Yes, we had a solar salesman from another company come by our house last year, when we were paying the same price for electricity. He ran the numbers and said he could not come up with any way, based solely on the economics, to justify the cost of his solar quote.
We put the project on a back burner at that time cuz we were planning to replace our roof.
I'm not worrying too much about trying to make the numbers work financially. I look at it more as a way to enjoy the benefits of power produced right in our backyard, and to reduce (not eliminate) our dependence on the electric providers and the grid. We have 2 more years on our electric contract, then will have to negotiate a new one. Who knows what we will have to pay next time?
I also look at it as a fun science experiment. Pretty much the same reason we put solar on the roof of our coach. I like to learn about new technology first hand, by actually using it. It will be entertaining to have solar, and hopefully will add some value to our house. I figure this is a good time to buy solar, before the 26% Federal tax credit goes away. No word yet on if it will be renewed.
We are in the fortunate position to be able to afford this kind of project without suffering any financial distress. I figure we might as well spend it on technological toys while we're still kickin' cuz you never know when your time will be up.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: craneman on February 09, 2022, 08:35:09 pm
They are cutting the discounts on solar here and the excuse is that all the people that went to solar cut the profit of the power company so they raised the price of electricity. So in effect the ones without solar are subsidizing the solar users. The ones that have contracts planned on the discounts to pay back for the installation in 10 years, now they say it won't pay back in their lifetime. Have to see what happens now.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on February 09, 2022, 08:49:38 pm
Best is to get off the grid entirely. California's PG&E is the nation's biggest utility but easily the worst. Anytime it's windy or have snow, we lose our utilities for days in a row. Three weeks is a long time and while we got just our power back after three days, many neighbors waited weeks in freezing temp, no phones or internet. Solar panels are super inexpensive and if you do it yourself, it's not that expensive and will pay for itself in a short time.
Pierce
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Mr B3 on February 09, 2022, 09:22:33 pm
I considered putting solar on my roof well over 10 years ago, With a full battery system to store the power, As in full off grid, They did give a good deal back then for buying back the excess power, Its not like that now, They only give peanuts now, Now, If the batterys had lasted this long, I would be up for a new battery bank, Costing it all out over the years,, It would have been just a total waste of money,
Its still cheaper by a long way to just use the grid for my power,
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 09, 2022, 10:27:35 pm
I finished adding up the numbers for two 2-year periods from just before we purchased our coach. Those two years are a good representative of our actual energy usage. Nothing in our house has changed since then that would materially affect the amount of power we use in the house. We did buy our Chevy Bolt in 2019, but we don't drive it enough to make any difference in our electric bill.
SO, our "pre-coach" annual power draw was 21555 kWh, which is 1796 per month, or 60 per day (average).
After buying the coach, we used (last year) 24877 kWh, which is 2073 per month, or 69 per day (average).
Having the coach sitting in our driveway adds 9 kWh per day to our annual consumption, or roughly a 15% increase in our annual electric cost.
9 kWh per day at our delivered rate of 8.3 cents per kWh = $0.75 per day. That's actually a lot less extra cost than I imagined!
I know we use a lot of power for the size of our house. I think the biggest reason is that we like to keep the temperature inside at about 70 degrees all year round. That really works our air conditioner in the summer.
On the plus side, we are 100% electric, so we don't have any other utility bill, like water or gas or sewer. We are on a water well as our only water supply, and a septic tank for waste disposal.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Olde English on February 10, 2022, 01:23:49 am
We are 31/2 years into our house solar system, we were connected in august and we get our bill once a year in august. The first 2 years we were about 100 kw positive but this last cycle we were 102 kw in the hole. Our usage hadn't changed still frugal with the thermostat, 65 at night and maybe 70 during the day with the AC at 70. It turns out that the cooling cycle for the on demand hot water was the culprit, that had been installed earlier however our gas bill went down by over 65% so swings and roundabouts. Our calculations at the time of installation of solar was with the rebates and the price of electric at the time break even would be less than 14 years. As an aside I do natter a little about the initial damage done manufacturing them but oh well.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Gerry Vicha on February 10, 2022, 07:16:43 am
"I am getting quotes on a ground based system. We just put a $20k new roof on our house last year, and I don't want them punching a bunch of holes in it. We have 2 acres of south facing unused property behind our house, and you may recall we had a 1/2 acre cleared a few months ago for the RV parking pad. I had in mind leaving adequate space for the solar racks when we did that..."
Just thinking; What about using the solar panels as a "Roof Over" for the motorhome on its new pad. If you are going to build a ground based system, elevate it above the coach, can't be that much more cost... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 10, 2022, 08:48:41 am
Just thinking; What about using the solar panels as a "Roof Over" for the motorhome on its new pad. If you are going to build a ground based system, elevate it above the coach, can't be that much more cost...
I like the way you think, Gerry. I have already considered that option, and it is still on the table. However, I have so far had a hard time getting anyone interested in building me just a plain-jane flat RV cover. Adding complexity to the design doesn't help the cause.
With our almost constant winds, any carport or RV cover around here needs to be strong. The higher off the ground, the more it is caught by the wind. Steel is really expensive right now. More steel = higher cost.
Most of the prefabricated solar ground mounts I've seen are pretty simple and relatively easy to install. One of the nice things about having the panels down at ground level is they are easier to keep clean. Battery powered leaf blower, or water hose and squeegee. We get a lot of blowing dust in West TX. My next door neighbor has 20 solar panels on his roof. He gets up there and tries to clean them off, but it's a big hassle. His wife is afraid he'll fall off and break his neck.
I will wait to hear what the salesman says today. When we discuss panel mounts, I will ask about building them into a RV cover.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Bigoil76 on February 10, 2022, 09:00:56 am
They put solar panels above parking areas here in Phoenix area schools pretty regularly. The structures are steel and very sturdy to handle winds. Also there is a roof under the panels as, with the panels angled toward the south , wouldn't provide coverage from all Sun and occasional rain. Also as mentioned above, with the dust, they need to be cleaned and they hire folks to do this. If you have room and sounds like you do, I would go with the ground mounted array for cost and accessibility . Our home here is covered with solar. We are fans of it..
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Bigoil76 on February 10, 2022, 09:08:57 am
They put solar panels above parking areas here in Phoenix area schools pretty regularly. The structures are steel and very sturdy to handle winds. Also there is a roof under the panels as, with the panels angled toward the south , wouldn't provide coverage from all Sun and occasional rain. Also as mentioned above, with the dust, they need to be cleaned and they hire folks to do this. If you have room and sounds like you do, I would go with the ground mounted array for cost and accessibility . Our home here is covered with solar. We put on when we got a new 30 year roof. Otherwise if you ever need a new roof, panels must come off. 6-7k for removal and reinstall.. we are big fans of solar as the 30+ panels have offset our electrical costs for the house AC and our pool heater. P.S. I am able to rinse mine off when needed, a few times a year
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 10, 2022, 10:50:58 am
Great thread. I've been thinking about solar panels. Didn't know about the micro inverters. From what I have read they are way more efficient.
Monitoring helps make sure the panels are working well and how well.
These are the microinverters we have. Reliable solar and storage for your home | Enphase (https://enphase.com/homeowners)
The newer iQ8+ versions are >97% efficient, much better than most DC to AC inverters, and can be set up to provide split-phase 220v. With a monitoring kit connected to the internet, we can see the status and performance of each panel in real-time and summarized it over time. We have a second monitor which tracks grid power used, power sold to the grid, and solar production, used and sold in just about any time frame you want from minutes to lifetime. All this data is available online to see whenever your want.
If you have an integrated Victron system connected to the internet you can track solar production, power use, battery crate, and landline use with Victron's online app.
August 17th, 2021.
A hot AC use day at home. The smaller spikes are AC and the wider spikes are the electric water heater coming on at night. Both (and the coach barn) are on off-peak power for about 4.5ยข per kWh. 42.8 kWh generated. 8 AM to 8 AM.
Panel status and generation for the same day as above, start and stop times are 12 AM to 12 AM so slightly different production numbers, 43.5 kWh.
And VRM data from yesterday
For the last months while we are away our production is off - lots of snow at home. If we were there I would be clearing the snow on the panels on the bigger array, I can do it from the ground.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 10, 2022, 11:04:36 am
The newer iQ8 versions are >97% efficient, much better than most DC to AC inverters, and can be set up to provide split-phase 220v.
The Enphase IQ8+ micro inverters are even more magical.
Supposedly they are capable of setting up a "micro grid" when the electric power fails at your house. This allows the solar panels to keep operating (in the daytime, of course) and supplying power to your home even if you do not have any battery backup. This is a big advance from all other grid-tied solar systems, which are usually disabled when the power grid goes down, unless you have backup batteries.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 10, 2022, 11:35:18 am
Yup, no big equipment, since it is already tied to the house and grid just disconnect grid when power is out.
We added 6 more panels a year ago, mount them, plug them in, and that was about it.
There are many ways to get this done. Each installer is going to have their preferred way, probably the one that makes them the most money. We used silver frames at home for cost reasons. Black frames are about the same now and look cleaner. Your needs should drive the solution.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: hdff on February 10, 2022, 03:24:35 pm
We've owned our coach since late 2013. All I need to do is go back in my files and dig out the paper utility bills for a couple years prior to our purchase. Total the monthly usage for 12 months and come up with a average monthly kWh before plugging in the coach. SIMPLE!
Chuck what concerns me is that you have utility bills from over 10 years ago. The DW thinks I'm crazy for keeping them a year. 😂😂
Keith
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 10, 2022, 10:59:35 pm
Update: Met our first salesman today. He works for Sunpro Solar - a national company with excellent ratings. We had a good conversation about our goals for the system and he gave me his proposal. Here is what he suggested:
System size: 13.68 kW Estimated 1st year production: 24,992 kWh = 2083 kWh per month = 69 kWh per day (36) LG NeON 2 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency (36) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters (1) Encharge 10 Storage System module (AC coupled battery, 10.08 kWh useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry) Enpower Smart Switch IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module) Enlighten mobile app Unirac ground mount racking system All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required) 25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Gaurantee
This system is projected to provide 100% of our average monthly power usage, based on last year's (2021) numbers. In theory, this should allow us to zero out our utility bill each month, assuming we have a plan with net metering. The salesman provided me with contact info for a electric provider that serves this area and has a net metering plan with unlimited roll-over of unused credits. Our current provider - Reliant - does not offer this type plan in this area. The new provider will also reimburse us for the penalty if we break our contract with Reliant.
We don't have a firm price yet, cuz the finance office is working up some different financing proposals. Will probably be a heart stopper when they hand me the $$ numbers. What the heck - can't take it with you.
I really like the Enphase totally integrated system...especially the seamless way everything works together. I'm gonna get two more bids from other companies, based on the same system components. See who can give me the whole package at the most reasonable price.
So what say you Forum solar experts? Does this sound like a good package? All comments happily accepted!
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: turbojack on February 11, 2022, 12:06:50 am
Have the guy give you some names and numbers of people that had installed a year ago. See if those numbers are correct. Those numbers come out to 5 hr of 100% per day. Ready for Roger to give us some numbers
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 11, 2022, 12:13:39 am
My enphase enlighten system provides data on production and panel performance. We added the eGauge monitor to add in actual consumption, solar production and net in and out from the grid.
If your average daily consumption is 69 kWh then 10 kWh of battery storage will get you about 3.5 hrs of backup capability. Ask if the cost for that capability works.
Ours was about $2.75 / watt all in including permits and inspections. Adding the battery component could add another $10K.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 11, 2022, 09:12:40 am
Have the guy give you some names and numbers of people that had installed a year ago. See if those numbers are correct. Those numbers come out to 5 hr of 100% per day.
Good idea to ask for references from local customers. We'll do that!
I checked the production claim with the NREL PVWatts calculator. It came out very close. See .jpg below.
PVWatts Calculator (https://pvwatts.nrel.gov)
EnPhase claims the IQ7+ micro inverters are more efficient than conventional string inverters, which should help a bit.
If your average daily consumption is 69 kWh then 10 kWh of battery storage will get you about 3.5 hrs of backup capability.
Ours was about $2.75 / watt all in including permits and inspections. Adding the battery component could add another $10K.
The salesman said that the Enphase system will all be hung on the outside wall of our house, right next to where the grid power enters the house, electric meter, and main disconnect breaker. This will be a perfect location for us because it is on the side of the house we hardly ever visit. Won't take up any valuable space in our garage, which is where I thought everything would go.
He said they will install a circuit breaker sub-panel with 10 available circuits. They will ask us what we want powered when the grid goes down. What we choose to power will determine how long the 10 kWh battery will last. So we need to think about that... The water well, for sure, plus our fridge. He said the single battery cannot power our heat pump, but we can live without that.
I'm sure our price per watt will come in a lot higher than your number, for a couple reasons.
The ground mount panels will require extra labor time to build. They are designed to handle wind requirements in this area, so posts will either be set in deep holes in the ground, or on "cement ballast" mounts. He said the engineers decide that stuff. Plus they need to dig a trench for the cables roughly 100' from the mounts to the house. In our extremely rocky soil this dirt work will be a real chore. More time and labor.
Also, everything in the Midland area is expensive. In the middle of the TX oilfield, it is assumed that everyone is rich. :'(
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: D.J. Osborn on February 11, 2022, 11:35:44 am
He said the single battery cannot power our heat pump, but we can live without that.
Based upon our experience when we were without utility power for an entire week after a nearby tornado I would seriously consider adding a second battery if that would provide heat pump/air conditioner capability.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: rbark on February 11, 2022, 11:53:18 am
Chuck, are you buying this system, or leasing?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 11, 2022, 12:31:17 pm
Buying, either cash or financing, depending on the deal they offer.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 11, 2022, 12:33:05 pm
Based upon our experience when we were without utility power for an entire week after a nearby tornado I would seriously consider adding a second battery if that would provide heat pump/air conditioner capability.
This is something we will look at after we see how one battery works. Adding batteries is very simple with the Enphase system. It just costs $$$$
As long as we have our coach parked in our driveway, we always have backup living quarters. If the house gets too hot, we move into the coach. Same if it gets too cold. As long as it doesn't get below freezing in the house, we're good. Last winter during the Big Freeze, it got down to about 45 degrees in the house after 4 days of outside temps in the low teens and single digits.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Jason on February 12, 2022, 12:00:24 am
Chuck please keep us posted, I'm interested as well.
General question, can you get used solar panels, ie santan, and add micro inverters to any/most?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 12, 2022, 09:38:00 am
Update: Received our second bid yesterday. This one was done remotely by a salesman in Houston. He works for TriSMART - a regional company with good ratings. Solar Company Texas - TriSMART Solar (https://www.trismartsolar.com) I know we have some Forum members in the TX gulf area, so if you know anything about this outfit, good or bad, let me know. Below is his proposal. Items different from the first bid (Reply #31) shown in RED.
System size: 14.22 kW Estimated 1st year production: 26,157 kWh = 2180 kWh per month = 72 kWh per day (36) REC Alpha 395 Pure Black, 132 half-cut "heterojunction" cells, gapless technology, 21.3% efficiency (36) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters (1) Encharge 10 plus (1) Encharge 3 Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 13.44 kWh useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry) Enpower Smart Switch IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module) Enlighten mobile app Unirac ground mount racking system All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required) 25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Gaurantee
This system is projected to provide 105% of our average monthly power usage, based on last year's (2021) numbers. In theory, this should allow us to zero out our utility bill each month, assuming we have a plan with net metering and unlimited roll-over of credits. This type plan IS available in our area. :thumbsup:
So, several improvements over my first bid. Bigger battery! More battery is good by any measure. The REC half-cut panel is leading edge solar technology, with some "theoretical" advantages over a conventional 60 cell panel like the LG that was listed in my first bid. The REC is pure black, which is seemingly a big deal to customers who mount the panels on the roof in view of their neighbors. Since I won't even be able to see the front of my panels from our house I couldn't care less about this aspect.
Got another salesman coming by today for my third bid. Then it will be decision time.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: EddieNel on February 12, 2022, 09:49:46 am
@Chuck & Jeannie I don't want to be the Richard on this thread but can you give us a ball park price on this setup? If your not comfortable can you pm me? Im also wanting to check into the tax credit on a system like this. I need to know if when your filing your taxes and your using the short form less then $25,100 in deductions. Is the credit separate and applied to the purchase.
Does the $2.75 per watt that Roger posted sound about right with the kit and installation?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 12, 2022, 10:23:51 am
I will post the final price on whatever final configuration we end up with. Then everybody can tell me how bad I got screwed. :headwall:
I am finding that pricing is very, shall we say, fluid with these solar companies. They throw around all kinds of "discounts" and "rebates" that seem to change each time they open their mouths. And then when you talk about financing, it gets even more fun. They have a multitude of financing options, rates, payment periods, etc. So right now I don't know what my proposed system will cost - it is still up in the air.
The way, in general, they price out the system is as follows. They quote a really BIG system cost, then they subtract out all the discounts and rebates to finally arrive at a "financed amount". That is your bottom line cost for the system. You can finance the whole amount, or pay a cash down payment to reduce the financed amount, or pay the whole amount in cash. Your choice.
The 26% fed tax credit is based on the financed amount. You apply the credit to the bottom line of whatever tax form you use. If the credit is larger than your tax owed for the first year, you can carry over the excess credit to following years, until it is eventually used up. NOTE: I am not a tax expert! Always consult a tax professional for guidance.
Roger's ballpark price of $2.75 for a 14000 watt system would come out to $38500. My bids so far are coming in a lot higher than that. BUT, his price does not include a battery. Batteries add a really big chunk to the total cost. So it's hard for me to compare directly to his number.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 12, 2022, 10:24:13 am
My cost at $2.75 per watt is very likely to be quite a bit less than Chuck's will be. We have no battery component for overnight use or backup in case of power outages which are rare and short where we live. And this was about 4 years ago. We benefited from a 30% Federal Tax credit, a rebate from our local electric coop utility that was about 12% of the total cost, a buyback of excess power by the electric coop at retail rates, and some generous considerations from the solar instller.
Our is a roof top system which only allows orientation and angles of the roof and the house relative to the sun and the space available for panels. And we live in the woods. We did a lot of strategic tree trimming and removal for production reasons but some shade is inevitable. Chuck's will be a ground based system (something we cannot do in our township) in open spaces which allows better orientation for performance and as much space as they need for panels.
Every installation will be different based on where you are, where you can put panels, local buy back programs and assistance, finance options and much more.
The opportunity to significantly reduce our future electric costs and increases has worked for us. It may work for you as well. We hope this works for Chuck as well as it has for us.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: rbark on February 12, 2022, 12:25:29 pm
Eddie, you can only be a Richard if your name is Richard!
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 12, 2022, 02:29:22 pm
Let me say that I don't consider myself to be a solar guru. I know something about it because I did my homework and have installed solar systems on my own home and on my coach. I have some direct experience, that's about all.
Our system was financed at the total cost minus the cost of permits. It was in 2 parts, one a short term zero interest balloon payment loan equal to the federal tax credit (30% of the total cost) payable in 18 months and the balance was a 10 yr 2.9%. Cheap money, we paid it off in 4 yrs.
By the way, your motorhome is considered a second home by the IRS and is a capital asset. If you make improvements they increase the basis value of the asset (initial cost + improvements). When you sell it, probably for a lower price than the asset value, you incur a capital loss which can be used to offset other capital gains.
So if you add solar panels, a solar charger or two, batteries for storage (think lithium), and all of the other components involved in the improvement to your coach, the total cost qualifies for the Federal tax credits, and increases your basis value for the asset (coach) just as if you had put them on your house or in your back yard.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2022, 11:10:10 am
I've been stuffing my old brain with solar info, trying to understand the ins and outs of planning a solar installation. LOTS to learn! :o
Along the way, happened on the chart below. Should be interesting to anyone planning a solar install on their coach. Where do you anticipate spending most of your camping time? Location will have a definite effect on solar output...which is why everyone wants to go BIG on the panel number/wattage. Of course, affording BIG is another matter...
NOTE: In case it is not obvious, the darker colors mean more "productive" sunlight per day = better performance from solar panels.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2022, 11:34:38 am
Enphase has a excellent free tool on their website. It allows you to plan a solar system (with storage) based on geographical location and power requirements. The cool thing is you can fine tune the system based on what exactly you want to power in a "off grid" situation, by adding and subtracting from a large list of items. This might even be helpful when planning a solar system for your coach. Will give you a rough idea what different electric devices require, power wise.
Fun to play with! :thumbsup:
Enphase Energy- Power your house with Solar and Storage | System Estimator (https://estimator.enphase.com/v2)
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2022, 11:48:05 am
After playing with the design tool mentioned in post above, I have decided to raise our sights and shoot for employing two 10 kWh Encharge storage modules in our proposed system. I have advised the 3 companies who have already submitted bids of this change. Waiting to see what they say...
I'm thinking about starting a GoFundMe campaign to finance this project...I'm sure our loyal Forum friends would be happy to contribute. 8)
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: turbojack on February 14, 2022, 12:02:26 pm
So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?
When I had a new 2001 boat people asked me what I paid for it. I always told them "More then I paid for my house." Never was asked about the last 3 FT but if I was I would give the same answer since still living in the same house since 1979
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: kepeters on February 14, 2022, 12:21:06 pm
Chuck,
I am proud of you, you engage in the same type of projects I do, the ones I think are nice to do regardless the economics.
I am rebuilding a dilapidated cabin on top of a mountain sitting on 60 acres that I bought to help out a financially strapped relative. I needed the place as badly as a fourth leg, when people ask me what I am doing there I say: "Building a hunting cabin". The place has lots of wildlife, I do not let my dog run free around it on visits because there are frequent cougar sightings. And I have no interest whatsoever in hunting.
Your project will cost north of $ 50 K, at your present electricity cost of $ 2500/year it will only take you 20 years to break even.
But the non tangible advantages are priceless, I could shoot a cougar If I desire so.
Onwards and forward.
Regards
Klaus
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: dsd on February 14, 2022, 12:21:38 pm
Just dont use the Go fund me site. They take like 10-20% off the top for there services.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2022, 12:27:30 pm
So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?
That's not too hard, actually. We got a really good deal on our coach (in 2013) - only paid $30k thanx to some very kind Forum members who cut us a break. Of course we've got a bit more in it now due to some "upgrades" and voluntary improvements.
Money ain't worth what it used to be. The whole value to price relationship seems warped.
We were looking at the Ford Lightning E-pickup as a possible replacement for our Chevy Bolt (which cost us $20k out-of-pocket). The price on the Lightning will supposedly be from $40k to $95k plus tax. NINETY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for a pickup truck! And yet they have already booked $100 reservations for the first two years projected production run.
I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it routinely does in some 3rd world countries.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: turbojack on February 14, 2022, 04:25:58 pm
I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it does in some 3rd world countries.
My wife says lets spend it before our kids do. I have been doing a pretty good job at following her instructions.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2022, 04:42:11 pm
No kids here - one less thing to give me (more) gray hair. :))
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Barry & Cindy on February 14, 2022, 07:55:22 pm
Solar for RVs is not like planning for a home. No way to compute payback $. Just fill as much of the roof with panels as you want, get a controller to handle the total amps with some extra for efficiency and expansion, that has an inside remote meter display. Major planning done...
One choice what solar output voltage to use, either with series or parallel wiring. Use large enough cables from panels and down to controller. Another is how to mount panels to roof. Tilt & track the sun is nice but with sun always moving during each day, just leaving everything flat is usually more practical.
Solar allows one to minimize generator time, but often battery storage is the limitation.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 17, 2022, 09:09:03 am
Update:
We should have our final system configuration pinned down by this weekend. Still clarifying a few details with the installer.
Meanwhile, I am reading up on the Enlighten monitoring program used by Enphase. It looks pretty useful to me (a total neophyte). See below (if interested):
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 18, 2022, 09:59:07 am
Well, we signed the contract, so it's a go. :o :help:
We picked a small local family owned solar installation company over the big national outfits. Our salesman (one of the owners) bent over backwards trying to earn our business. His bid was considerably less than the big outfits, and he gave us every break he could on the prices. He has a long list of happy local residential and commercial customers. They are a "Certified Installer" for Enphase and for LG (which is required in order to receive full manufacturer warranty coverage). I think we made the right decision, but only time will tell.
What we are (hopefully) going to end up with:
System size: 15.22 kW (See solar production analysis file linked below) Estimated 1st year production: 27,624 kWh = 2302 kWh per month = 77 kWh per day (40) NeON 2 LG380N1C-A6 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency (40) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters (2) Encharge 10T Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 20.16 kWh total useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry) Enpower Smart Switch IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module) Production and Consumption monitoring meters Enlighten mobile app IronRidge aluminum rail ground mount system All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required) 25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Guarantee
And, as promised, I will reveal the cost of the system. Let me preface by saying the "Solar" is a very hot commodity in TX right now. Lots of interest in residential installs affects pricing and availability of materials. We are very likely "higher priced" here than some other parts of the country. Even so, I think we came out pretty good on the bottom line.
List Price for complete system: 77,092 Less Oncor Rebate (8% paid directly to installer by TDU): (5,928)
Cost to Customer (cost basis - used for figuring tax credit): 71,164 Less 26% Fed Tax Credit: (18,503)
Final "Out-Of-Pocket" cost to customer: 52,661
Less cost of 2 storage modules ($8,000 each, average installed price in TX) (16,000)
Approximate cost of "grid-tied" solar system without storage: 36,661
Solar cost (36661) divided by system size in watts (15220) equals price per watt: $2.41
If there is continued interest in this project, AND assuming we have Moderator blessing, I'll return with some photos of the installation process as it proceeds. If not, we can let this thread RIP.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 18, 2022, 02:07:49 pm
Congratulations Chuck. Once it is in you will see the benefits immediately. Ours was installed late fall as we went into winter. It was underwhelming for the first few months. You have to look at things on an annual basis to have a clear picture of what is going on. After our first season we trimmed and removed more trees (we live in the woods) to improve performance. It helped. It is likely dusty where you are, ask the installer about a panel cleaning process and frequency. Where we are it is snow removal in the winter.
Let the sun shine!
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: hdff on February 22, 2022, 09:35:54 pm
Something to ponder, from the Fort Bend County Texas Facebook page.
Keith
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: hdff on February 22, 2022, 09:48:56 pm
Well, we signed the contract, so it's a go. :o :help:
We picked a small local family owned solar installation company over the big national outfits. Our salesman (one of the owners) bent over backwards trying to earn our business. His bid was considerably less than the big outfits, and he gave us every break he could on the prices. He has a long list of happy local residential and commercial customers. They are a "Certified Installer" for Enphase and for LG (which is required in order to receive full manufacturer warranty coverage). I think we made the right decision, but only time will tell.
What we are (hopefully) going to end up with:
System size: 15.22 kW (See solar production analysis file linked below) Estimated 1st year production: 27,624 kWh = 2302 kWh per month = 77 kWh per day (40) NeON 2 LG380N1C-A6 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency (40) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters (2) Encharge 10 Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 20.16 kWh total useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry) Enpower Smart Switch IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module) Production and Consumption monitoring meters Enlighten mobile app IronRidge aluminum rail ground mount system All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required) 25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Guarantee
And, as promised, I will reveal the cost of the system. Let me preface by saying the "Solar" is a very hot commodity in TX right now. Lots of interest in residential installs affects pricing and availability of materials. We are very likely "higher priced" here than some other parts of the country. Even so, I think we came out pretty good on the bottom line.
List Price for complete system: 77,092 Less Oncor Rebate (8% paid directly to installer by TDU): (5,928)
Cost to Customer (cost basis - used for figuring tax credit): 71,164 Less 26% Fed Tax Credit: (18,503)
Final "Out-Of-Pocket" cost to customer: 52,661
Less cost of 2 storage modules ($8,000 each, average installed price in TX) (16,000)
Approximate cost of "grid-tied" solar system without storage: 36,661
Solar cost (36661) divided by system size in watts (15220) equals price per watt: $2.41
If there is continued interest in this project, AND assuming we have Moderator blessing, I'll return with some photos of the installation process as it proceeds. If not, we can let this thread RIP.
So if my Math is right, this would be my breakdown if I installed this
I average 200 month electric bill which is ~2400 a year System is 36600k /2400= 15.25 years for it to pay off. Is this correct??. Just trying to understand this
Keith
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: prfleming on February 22, 2022, 10:27:22 pm
The $36,600 cost is without battery storage (you would be buying electricity at night). The better comparison for complete coverage of your electric bill is to use the cost with battery storage. This also is assuming you would need the same size system as Chuck's.
52,600 / 2400 = 21.9 years
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 22, 2022, 10:32:39 pm
Keith, is a static world, yes but you need to assume your electric bills are going to change, generally upward. The solar salespeople will do their best to present a best of all scenarios. So if in 15 years your electric bills were to go up say 50% your payoff might be maybe 11 years. The really big sales pitch comes when they show you what your savings would be over 25 years, assuming rates go up but (poorly) assuming consumption is steady. Not paying for most of your electric use once the system is paid off adds up to some very big numbers.
I don't know anyone who is 40 that is doing this even though the savings before retirement are huge. But they should.
Well, not many people live in a house for 20 years or more either. That said, the salespeople pull out the how much more your house will be worth charts. Will it be an added value to a buyer at some point in the future? We think there is a good chance of that for our home in our location for the kind of buyer it will attract.
We did it not for economic payback but because it was a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 22, 2022, 11:18:12 pm
Keith,
We're not worried about setting our roof on fire because our panels will be mounted on the ground 120' behind our house. It's usually the high voltage DC put out by the roof panels that causes fires. Our panels will each have individual inverters that convert the DC to AC before it comes to the house.
As for the "pay off" period, there are several ways of looking at it. The solar salesmen can manipulate those numbers just like a magician doing slight-of-hand. It can make your head spin trying to keep up with them.
Like Roger said, utility bills will probably go up in the future. How much is a guess. That's why the salesmen like the 25-year projection - makes the case for solar look more appealing.
Our system, like Peter noted, will have "storage". The beauty of storage is that it makes the solar panels more "useful". Most grid tied systems are useless when the grid goes down - ours will continue to operate. Battery-less grid-tied system are dead at night - ours will allow us to cover some of our night-time power usage by regurgitating the power stored during the day. If a system is large enough to produce excess power during the day, and IF you can find a electric provider with a decent "solar buy back" policy, then you can bank some solar credits on high production days to cover your deficit on low production days. All this helps to lower (but does not necessarily totally eliminate) your monthly utility bill.
We don't know how all this will work out financially. It's a big experiment as far as I'm concerned. We paid cash for our system, using money that was earning very little interest. By doing so we avoided any finance charges which saves us some money. We will pay ourselves back for the "loan" in 10 years without causing any strain on our budget. We are comfortable with the financial aspect of this deal, but what we are doing certainly won't make sense to everybody. Different strokes for different folks.
We feel the same as Roger about solar. We think it will be a good thing to make most of our own electricity in our modest little backyard solar farm. We like being less dependent on some big faceless entity for the power that keeps us comfortable in our home. We like the idea of producing our own "fuel" to power our electric car, and our electric riding lawn mower, and our electric bikes.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: hdff on February 23, 2022, 06:44:18 am
Thanks, I understand y'all's logic now. Looking forward to seeing your project progress. To each his own, that's what makes this country great.
Keith
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: nitehawk on February 23, 2022, 08:59:37 am
Texas Top Soil, huh?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: craneman on February 23, 2022, 10:27:58 am
Too late to have the panels mounted high enough to use for coach shade?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: dsd on February 23, 2022, 10:30:55 am
So I wonder how the carbon foot print would compare to a diesel generator and fuel to run it? We have solar heated water to heat our house. Not perfect but takes a huge bite out of our power bill. In the winter. Radiant heat floors are nice. We do run low on heat early spring but manageable. Scott
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 23, 2022, 10:32:13 am
So I wonder how the carbon foot print would compare to a diesel generator and fuel to run it?
I don't know nothing about "carbon footprint".
Unless you are going to run a generator 24/7 I don't think it can be logically compared to a solar setup as a continuous provider of electric power. For emergencies sure generators work - but not for every day use.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: dsd on February 23, 2022, 11:19:10 am
Carbon footprint is the calculated amount of carbon produced in the production , use and disposal of something. Great example is a Prius and a Humve. The Prius has a larger carbon foot print cradle to grave than the Humve. This includes all the fuel used to power. Doesn't seem possible to me but because of the Batteries construction and disposal cost? Concrete also has High numbers but I do like it, Im probably part of the problem actually. Scott
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Hans&Marjet on February 23, 2022, 06:42:03 pm
Chuck..how deep are the holes ?
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Jason on February 23, 2022, 07:58:28 pm
Chuck- I would be interested in you keeping us updated on this project, this is exactly what I want to do. So please keep the updates coming!
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 23, 2022, 09:21:35 pm
Chuck- I would be interested in you keeping us updated on this project, this is exactly what I want to do. So please keep the updates coming!
Jason,
I'll keep the thread going as long as the Moderators approve. I am moving it to a new thread in "Around the Fire Ring". New thread is called: Home Solar With Storage - Installation.
See you over there.
Title: Re: Solar Question for Gurus
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 23, 2022, 09:24:44 pm
NOTE TO ALL:
I'm discontinuing posting in this thread and will be posting further comments on this subject in a new thread in "Around the Fire Ring".
New thread is called: Home Solar With Storage - Installation.