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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Res777 on February 10, 2022, 10:03:50 am

Title: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Res777 on February 10, 2022, 10:03:50 am
Needing new start batteries. I have 3 Optima Redtops now dated 02/15. I was looking at either staying with the Redtops or Dekas. It looks like Deka is manufactured by Penn. The same company that makes Lifeline. In another thread here it was said Optima was starting to get some bad reviews. Any real world experience with either of these would be appreciated. Same price point on both.
I can't knock Optima. They still start that ISM okay. But I know things can change. 
Robert
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: D.J. Osborn on February 10, 2022, 10:06:12 am
I've read really good things about SuperStart batteries from O'Reilly auto. I will probably consider them when the time comes.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: dsd on February 10, 2022, 10:26:19 am
I used to really really like optimas till they were sold and lost 20+% of there weight. Good for three years but no more. Hard pass on them for me. My start battles are three group 31 Napa. Salesman said they weren't  great either. Really didn't have much of a choice when i purchased in 2020 but they have performed well
Scott
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on February 10, 2022, 10:30:25 am
Read reviews on Optima batteries before buying. Autozone/O'Reilly is good. Our 3 Duralast start batteries lasted from when we bought the coach in '08 to about 3 or 4 years ago before one failed. Changed to 31 series Duralast with 2850 CCA. Three battery purchase should give you a 10% discount. Total was a little over $300 for all. They weight about 60# each. The heavier the better for batteries. They are maintenance free. I've never tried to unseal any to check on level. Other Johnson batteries have good reputation. Check Coscto, Sam's Club, Walmart for the best deals and easiest replacement. Compare weights also.

Pierce
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: WS6_Keith on February 10, 2022, 10:30:49 am
These days I look for the batteries with the longest warranty.  The last pickup I had got Autozone Gold's, which had a 7 year warranty at the time.  3 year full replacement and pro-rated after that.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: dsd on February 10, 2022, 11:23:21 am
31 series Duralast with 2850 CCA. They are maintenance free. I've never tried to unseal any to check on level.

Pierce
Funny you bring this up, I did peel back the labels and unscrew the flush sealed caps. Most were at a acceptable level but several were low but above the plates. I filled all to the upper limit after fully charging. Yes maintenance free sealed batteries can be checked and filled. Great point you bring up Pierce 👍👍
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Doug W. on February 10, 2022, 11:25:01 am
https://youtu.be/h7rTcBanpMk
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: oldguy on February 10, 2022, 11:30:34 am
I have Optima start batteries and they are starting to fail after three or four years.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 10, 2022, 11:51:09 am
The Yellow Tops in the coach when I bought it lasted about one year. I replaced them with Yellow Tops which lasted about 6 years.  Now I Have O'Reilly's Super Start Fleet & Heavy Duty Battery Group Size 31.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/fleet-heavy-duty/super-start-fleet-heavy-duty-battery-group-size-31/ssbl/agm31t?q=AgM&pos=0
$205 each out the door when I bought them. They are coming up on five years (I think) and are great.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: D.J. Osborn on February 10, 2022, 12:01:19 pm
We have Optima red tops that are almost 10 years old and still seem to be performing well. However—I've read that the current generation of Optima batteries are not of the same quality as the older ones.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: zmpm01 on February 10, 2022, 01:31:27 pm
I have the Optima Yellow Top purchased 04/2019 starting to fail will not maintain 12 volt's when temperature drops, not sure what way I'm going to go with new batteries, They were subject to last year's Texas deep freeze do to being at FOT for repairs, the coach was plugged in but that doesn't do much for the start batteries. Does seem like the Optima batteries just don't hold up like they used too.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: oldguy on February 10, 2022, 02:37:06 pm
I just check and my batteries, Red Topps, were bought April 2019 same as Mikes so I'm
looking at what I will use. Not Red Topps.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Realmccoy on February 10, 2022, 03:20:03 pm
I did O'Reilly marine high capacity start batteries. They are reputed to be a tad more rugged and have an extra accessory lug at each terminal which is nice for attaching auxiliary items like toad charge, Trik L charge, and tire pressure sensor repeater. I went from two to three batteries for my C8.3 and have really enjoyed the extra capacity. Have not used the boost switch since change over in Sept. 2021. I did not want to redesign my battery support, so did not use Group 31 size batteries. Seems like the U320s were built with slightly larger start battery rack. Much cheaper than three Red Tops. I did have to scout around to find three, they shipped them in from other stores.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Barry & Cindy on February 10, 2022, 09:19:23 pm
We are happy with 3 redtops and figure on closer to 10 years of use without any problems using new cables and military connector.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: oldguy on February 10, 2022, 09:26:25 pm
I think if you have old Redtops you have a great battery, it's the new ones that are the
problem.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2022, 11:25:25 am
Regardless of brand, I would advise purchasing from a place that has a large national presence. If you have problems on the road, you don't have the time to deal with an online vendor. Not to mention shipping batteries is not cheap.  Try the big box auto stores, Walmart, Costco, Sam's , etc. You may pay a little more on the front end but it will work in your favor for any warranty issues.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: oldguy on February 12, 2022, 06:02:18 pm
I am at looking at the silicone batteries for my start batteries too. It's the cold weather starting
I'm after.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on February 12, 2022, 06:07:59 pm
Peter, my U320 starts at -30° F with no problems.  Use the engine preheat with your AH.

Battery technology is advancing quickly.  I have an eye on (and own some stock in) QuantumScape solid state batteries. New technologies need some proof behind them before you want to dive in.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: John Haygarth on February 12, 2022, 07:26:11 pm
The people in England that designed and built the first Lipo ones now are working on batteries using salt, believe it or not.
Johnh
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: oldguy on February 12, 2022, 11:06:39 pm
Also my house batteries are the Silicone batteries and it is easier for charging if they
are the same and I'm happy with my house batteries.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: erniee on February 13, 2022, 04:37:06 pm
A friend and I went and checked out batteries after reading this discussion. My coach has been slow to start since I bought it last April. We came back to the coach and it's parked on concrete so we could get under it better than at my place. He found out that the cables were loose . 3 year old batteries- and probably not dead batteries. After a few hours showing 13.5 and coach starts as designed. I saw Optimas at 325 a battery. Now I gots dinero for fuel-
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: wolfe10 on February 13, 2022, 04:41:06 pm
Ernie,

I had a sign I put out front of our coach on occasion (depended on diesel price):

WILL WORK FOR DIESEL!
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 13, 2022, 04:57:25 pm
A friend and I went and checked out batteries after reading this discussion. My coach has been slow to start since I bought it last April. We came back to the coach and it's parked on concrete so we could get under it better than at my place. He found out that the cables were loose . 3 year old batteries- and probably not dead batteries. After a few hours showing 13.5 and coach starts as designed. I saw Optimas at 325 a battery. Now I gots dinero for fuel-

I went through a few Group 27 batteries over the nine years we spent in our previous RV, damaged by draining them empty all.

Because even our Foretravel requires more than a single Group 27, we now have a second power converter dedicated solely to the chassis battery.  Yes it was $220 from Amazon.  Is it overkill?  I don't know, my DEKA GC-6 house batteries lasted 8 years, and were still "enough" when we sold the RV.  You tell me?
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: wolfe10 on February 13, 2022, 05:02:34 pm
...we now have a second power converter dedicated solely to the chassis battery. 

Hopefully, a SMART charger/converter.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 13, 2022, 05:11:48 pm
Hopefully, a SMART charger/converter.

Is there any other kind Wolfe?  I have a matched pair of Progressive Dynamics PD 9260 now.
The first 9260 went to a neighbor in need.
The second replaced the 9160 that my water heater drowned it.
The third, well, that one was out in the open after I had to answer the question: "Why did we have a spare power converter?"
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: wolfe10 on February 13, 2022, 05:19:55 pm

Ya, sadly a lot of STUPID ones out there!

Stupid= one voltage is right for every situation (deeply discharge same as fully charged) and one voltage is right for 0 degrees F and 100 degrees F).
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Old Toolmaker on February 13, 2022, 06:08:36 pm
Ya, sadly a lot of STUPID ones out there!

Stupid= one voltage is right for every situation (deeply discharge same as fully charged) and one voltage is right for 0 degrees F and 100 degrees F).

My 1973 Winnebago, bought new, had a harmonically regulated power converter that did a great job of boiling batteries.

The 1986 Rockwood, 13 years newer ditto.  That's when I learned all I know about lead acid technology, and the PD 9260 I purchased after some calculation and much luck served us well for 8 years.

*I think* I took out the dash mounted radio after forgetting that I had my Schauer dumb charger connected to the chassis battery.

When people are replacing chassis batteries after only a couple of years I have to ask why?  Granted that the PD 9100/9200 series are bare bones but they do the job.  Progressive Dynamics even offers a 9200L for Lithium batteries.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: zmpm01 on February 14, 2022, 10:15:00 am
Did a 2003 U295 come from the factory with group 34 Optima's red tops? taking measurements of the battery tray it appears to be 13" wide, like it would accept group 31 battery's, in my particular battery tray it has wood on the sides and ends for a perfect fit for the group 34 Optima's, I'm thinking of swapping to a group 31 maintenance free battery if they will fit, I don't feel the Optima's are worth the money. I have a good battery charger it just wasn't hard mounted to the coach and I have been moving it around to my other vehicles it look like I need to install a permanent Battery maintainer / charger. AND (I need to thin the herd I have to many toy's to maintain) Thanks for the info. Mike
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: mkc1962 on February 14, 2022, 10:18:25 am
At the moment I have roughly 11 items that stay on tender/maintainers when parked....champagne problem my wife calls it. All but 2 are using Odyssey brand AGM. I average 8-14 years of life on those cranking batteries. I have a yellow top in our U295. Should ours ever go, I will update it to Odyssey as well. With exception of 1 battery in 20 years that went bad at about 18 months (they replaced it free of charge) , I myself have just had outstanding performance out of all of them I have purchased.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: zmpm01 on February 14, 2022, 10:37:21 am
mkc1962 Thanks for the info on Odyssey batteries, have you purchased any lately? Say maybe in the last 3 years? and what maintainers / tenders are you running if you don't mind me asking? I looked at the Odyssey's I just don't have any experience with them are you running the normal Odyssey's or the extremes?
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: dsd on February 14, 2022, 10:53:49 am
At the moment I have roughly 11 items that stay on tender/maintainers when parked....champagne problem my wife calls it. All but 2 are using Odyssey brand AGM. I average 8-14 years of life on those cranking batteries. I have a yellow top in our U295. Should ours ever go, I will update it to Odyssey as well. With exception of 1 battery in 20 years that went bad at about 18 months (they replaced it free of charge) , I myself have just had outstanding performance out of all of them I have purchased.
X2
They make a outstanding product. And they command a appropriate price. Yes you get what you pay for
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: WS6_Keith on February 14, 2022, 08:52:22 pm
Did a 2003 U295 come from the factory with group 34 Optima's red tops?
According to the spec sheet ( Foretravel Motorhome 2003 Specifications Brochures & Photos [ForeForums... (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:2003) ), it came with Engine batteries: Optima D34 Deep Cycle (3).

My 2003 U320 has 3 x D31 batteries in it's tray.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: mkc1962 on February 16, 2022, 01:18:59 pm
mkc1962 Thanks for the info on Odyssey batteries, have you purchased any lately? Say maybe in the last 3 years? and what maintainers / tenders are you running if you don't mind me asking? I looked at the Odyssey's I just don't have any experience with them are you running the normal Odyssey's or the extremes?

Mike,
Ive bought 2 in the last 2 years. As for the maintainers, I have used the Deltran Battery tender brand for decades. Most of them are the 750ma tender Jr. I think they are not quite the quality they once were and are possible not even made here anymore, no shock on that. I usually get about 5 years of service out of a tender before it goes into a mode that it is still a great charger but the maintain circuit fails. I have a Tender Jr on my  bank of 2 Optima Yellow tops in my RV right now and it takes care of keeping them topped just fine.
 
Now Odyssey would have you believe they will not work on any AGM Odyssey battery. and that you Must purchase their special AGM maintainer.  But I have had every odyssey ive ever owned  since I discovered Odyssey back in 2000 when they were owned by Hawker electronics, On deltran or similar maintainers. I used to go with the bit pricier 1.5a models, but found the 750ma do the job just fine. ( I buy them in bulk every few years when I loose a few) I have only had the 1 ODY failure, and I think that was due to the fact that it was dropped when I had recieved it, not leaking but dented. Oddly enough about 18m into owning it would not charge above 10. They shipped me a new one no questions asked.

I will say this.....I have yet to buy a group 31 or 34 large battery like our RV's use, but I have bought many for full size vehicles (350chevy, 302 ford,), 850CCA range, (3.2 porsche, 3.6 GM) a few boats with V6/V8, and lost count of the Motorcycle batteries I have and have had. I have a small 200cca I Pulled out of a bike 2 years when it was 10 years old, new one in the bike as had a long trip planned and put it as the crank battery for my Generac entire home gen. 12 years old now every sat Morn at ten it test runs just fine.

As for  price, when they first came out and were owned by Hawker, you could expect to pay double for just about any battery they ofered. Now a day higher yes, but not that much. I replaced my porsche battery last year. Huge 80lb monster to replace would have been about $200 plus, same ability, much smaller, about 27 lbs $250. And they alwasy ship for free. not that I need any at the moment but most RV batteries I have seen have a tacked on hefty shipping per battery fee. Never paid a shipping fee on an Ody yet.
Odyssey Group 31 or 34  priced around $450+.

Ive been sold on them for a long time. And as Scott stated, cost more but you get what you pay for. Most of mine are the std, but every one I have bought in the past 5 years has had the word extreme on the label,. and though all Odyssey batteries are deep cycle rated, I have never bought one that I would call a coach type Deep cycle, only Cranking batteries.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: zmpm01 on February 17, 2022, 01:24:08 am
Thanks' Mike for the reply and all the info. It is appreciated!
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: hdff on August 23, 2022, 10:00:59 pm
According to the spec sheet (Foretravel Motorhome 2003 U295 Specifications | All Things Foretravel (http://www.allthingsforetravel.com/2020/03/31/2003-foretravel-u295-specifications/)), it came with Engine batteries: Optima D34 Deep Cycle (3).

My 2003 U320 has 3 x D31 batteries in it's tray.

Keith, has there been any modifications done to your battery tray to accept the group 31's? I thought group 34's were the only thing that would fit in my 2003 battery tray.... It's looking like it's about time for start batteries for me and I would like to change to group 31 if no modifications are needed..

Keith
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: bpal on August 24, 2022, 12:10:31 am
I am in the middle of switching to group 31s. Here are a couple photos of our 2004. I too had pieces of wood on the sides to block off for smaller width batteries that I removed.  No problems accommodating 31s.
Someone had done a rough job of cutting out the front of the rack to accommodate more depth on prior batteries. I cleaned it up a bit and put a couple of coats of POR15.
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: hdff on August 24, 2022, 09:13:49 am
I am in the middle of switching to group 31s. Here are a couple photos of our 2004. I too had pieces of wood on the sides to block off for smaller width batteries that I removed.  No problems accommodating 31s.
Someone had done a rough job of cutting out the front of the rack to accommodate more depth on prior batteries. I cleaned it up a bit and put a couple of coats of POR15.

I wish my batteries were located there, it would be a lot easier change or modify the batteries. Unfortunately with a tag axle they are in a different location, a location that warrants the engineer that designed it to be taken out behind the wood shed and worked over with a big stick.... I see WS6_Keith has a '03 tag coach like mine and hopefully he can report the same as you.


Keith
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: WS6_Keith on August 24, 2022, 10:09:10 am
Keith, are your batteries on the drivers's side, behind the tag, accessible from the rear most louvered door for the A/C condenser?  If so, it looks like they may have had a different position for U320 batteries like ours, vs U295 batteries (Group 34's from the spec sheet).

Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: bpal on August 24, 2022, 10:42:06 am
Since we're on the subject, here's a great writeup on proper connection to the battery stud:
Battery Melt Down Narrowly Averted - Marine How To (http://marinehowto.com/battery-melt-down-narrowly-averted/)
Title: Re: Opinions on batteries
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 24, 2022, 11:58:46 am
When I installed the 3 group 31 batteries, I had to weld up another rack for them as the 31s are a couple of inches longer than the 34 series. Painted backerboard lines the bottom of the rack. I was able to use the OEM cables as the width of the batteries is the same so no changes were needed. Small tabs were welded on to the new rack so it can be bolted to the old rack. I used 316 stainless for the hardware.

Pierce