Still getting used to our FT and had an issue with the slide.
We've only operated the slide 2 times and both times we've had issues getting it to close all the way on the bottom half. The first time was just our driveway and I was able to push it in while my wife operated, took about 3 or 4 tries and if finally shut all the way.
The 2nd time was last weekend, it was the maiden voyage and for the most part didn't have any issues....until leaving 🤬
Once again the slide would not close all the way on the bottom half, not by much...maybe half n inch. Once again i pushed outside and finally got it in, but his time it wouldn't let me put her in gear so assumed the switch is hay wire.
At one point i looked underneath the slide and noticed that the locking pin had punched a hole in the fiberglass (picture attached) just next to the steel locking hole in the bottom of slide, essentially at some point it had engaged before the slide was all the way in. This was probably from me telling my wife to keep holding the switch down while i tried to push in the slide. This hole could have already been there from the PV owner but who knows. They never mentioned having any issues with the slide.
So I guess my question is, where can I attempt to adjust the slide on this coach. This one has a hydraulic ram on the ceiling just inside the bay door that is under the slide. I'm hoping that i can just adjust it so it retracts that 1/2" or so that i need on the bottom so it works correctly.
The coach is in the shop now for something else but wanted some ammo ahead of time so I can tackle as soon as i get it home since were leaving for another weekend jaunt in a couple of weeks, in fact we might be picking it up at the shop and heading directly to our destination so i'll be working on it at the camp site.
Thanks for the help in advanced ;D
Following. I have the exact same issue and have an appt at FT in 3 weeks for repairs. What shop are you in? Woody.
number one - check for full deflation of slide bladder prior to pulling in the slide - if the bladder is not deflated, the drag created by the bladder on the slide often causes this condition
if you aux compressor is weak or not working this will cause poor inflation AND deflation of the bladder.
It sometimes helps if you run the engine and build pressure in the coach before you attempt to operate slide, it helps the aux compressor in my coach -
In a 2001 coach there is no interconnection between the HWH air tank and the bladder manifold. Unless there has been modifications made or chack valves have failed.
Make sure the HWH hydraulic oil tank is full. Your actuator arms may need lubrication. The black marks on the bottom of your slide should not be there. Something is rubbing that should not be. You should never hear any squealing of the bladder rubbing on the slide, ever! Wait unit the time controlled yellow light cones on and the visually check front and rear ends and upper corners when the slide is in for clearance, you will see light and about 1/4" of it. Then extend or retract the slide.
So the vacuum system will indicate ready when in reality it is not. The amber light comes on by a timer indicating a vacuum should be present regardless if it is correct. So first place the keyed switch on HWH slide panel to the on position and wait for amber light. Mine takes 41 seconds. Then walk out side and view the gap between the seal and the slide. It should not be in contact anywhere.
To take the guessing out of it I installed a combination gauge on the bladder line to show pressure or vacuum available during operation. New style bladders need 20 inches of vacuum to fully retract. And operate at 12 psi normally parked and going down the road. If your aux air compressor is weak it will not produce the needed vacuum. New bladders also require a improved vacuum system
Scott
The neutral safety indicates that the lock pins have not been been locked and feed back information received from them.
The Hole was caused by either a failed upper slide sensor seeing that the slide is fully retracted or the top being pushed in. Is the hole on the bottom im assuming? The system will failsafe if the slide is not in the upper position setting two position sensors next to the upper lock actuators. So you have two holes on the bottom?
Scott
It's not in the shop for the slide, he specializes in chassis work...having the steering box rebuilt and some other stuff. Keep me posted on what they find...if I don't figure it out first. 😁
Definitely not the issue, I see tons of day light the whole perimeter...and tanks were full. I was warned about that already 👍
The hole I mentioned and pictured is on the bottom of the slide, there's only one .I was trying to force the slide in the last little bit while my wife was holding the switch down so maybe that's how the hole got there. I was pushing it in far enough to trick it into thinking it was close but then it would pop back out a little and maybe that's when the pin was activating?? 🤷♂️
What do you mean by this..." The system will failsafe if the slide is not in the upper position setting two position sensors next to the upper lock actuators."
What do you mean by "slide not in the upper position"? Wouldn't the upper and lower sensors need to be activated or is there only sensors on the top?
So you just installed a "T" at the main block then added the gauge? If I search up "combo gauge" online will that point me to a vacuum/pressure gauge? I like the idea...As far as I can tell my 12v compressor works fine...it builds up 90psi for the zip-dee just fine.
I wonder if The black marks are from rubbing on the bladder? We've only used the slide twice since We've had it and I always made sure there was plenty of daylight around the perimeter before operating. I wonder if the previous owner did that? The hydraulic oil level is the first thing I checked the first time this happened and it is good.
Where are the actuator arms on this coach? There is a hydraulic ram in the bay on the ceiling right under the slide. Is that one of the actuator arms? I know other years there are hydraulic rams or arms on either side of the slide on the inside that you get to by removing the trim, but I know our year that's not the case. So where exactly are the actuator arms?
Also, what did you mean when you said there was no Interconnection between the HWH air tank and the bladder manifold? Does that mean that the bladder gets its air directly from the 12 V compressor? Or does the bladder get its air from the main tanks and then only use the 12 V compressor when the main tanks are too low?
Hopefully this will make sense.
Slide extended bladder inflated
Key switch turned to on
1 timer starts running to illuminate amber ready light. 41 seconds
2 by solenoid control air is shut off to slide and vacuum is applied
Once amber light is illuminated you push and hold retract ( verify bladder retracted on four side from out side)
1 slide stow sensors do not see a signal because slide is out, because of this pressure is applied only to retract actuators
2 slide starts to retract
3 slide has fully retracted and both slide stowed sensors on top only see signal and open the lock actuator solenoid and lock actuators extend 4
A. If no stow or lock signal pump continues to run but is being overloaded
B lock actuators extend and each one has a open closed switch in each actuator total four
4. Slide has retracted and computer has been watching for a retracted stowed dual indication and four lock actuator in locked position then finally 3000 psi shuts pump off with the retract still selected and pushed.
If any of these steps are not completed it will not allow transmission to engage unless in override. In your manual they expect one continuous motion. I was able to operate my slide mechanism with the slide removed and retracted to open the lock actuators to clean. If the stow sensors are engaged during the retract cycle regardless of position they immediately extend regardless of actual partial extend position. Vacuum is not used to prevent movement or as a input, only assumed, the amber light is strictly a timer and expecting vacuum has occurred regardless if it has. Curious your aux compressor is the larger 90 psi. Very nice. Mine is not.
With the side opened you can look underneath at the front and the back and see a opening. Your rams are inside. I would reccomend learning the system in the HWH manuals. Very similar to the 600 but actually a 680. Picture shows actuator with vertical adjustment shims and centering guide blocks. Guide roller in the rear.
Thanks for the run through. So my compressor has been upgraded? I thought it would have been OEM because it's needed for the awning operation.
I'll definitely need to dig out the manuals and bone up...and learn from folks like you 👍
Your room in sensors are on the top so they thought the room was in and sent the pins to locking. The room was not in on the bottom thus the hole. I wonder if you have a glide that is off or you have a shim that is blocking it. This should not happen. You will need to look under the slide from the inside in the slide room. You can reach the shims that way. I had an issue that it would not pin and could not see the slide in so I had to adjust the sensors and then at HWH they found a steel screw instead of brass that was causing the issues. also it can be many different issues but the marks on the bottom of you r slide tell me it is dragging so that is where I would look first
Most all of us got rid of that air awning and went back to a manual ZipDee awning. The original compressor that Foretravel installed on these coaches were not large enough to handle the air awnings and hence the issues many of us were having with that. I was told this by ZipDee and may be the reason you have the larger compressor in your coach. A photo of it would help, but most likely, the PO installed the new compressor! The slides have been a love hate relationship with just about every manufacturer and owner for years. Lot's of different ideas on how these should work and it took awhile for Foretavel to come up with one that they were happy with as well as the owners. Like Scott, DSD mentioned, lots of things have to happen for the slide to work and putting eyeballs on the gaps, etc. is most important. Hope this helps!
Definitely gonna take a closer look at what's making that mark once I get back to her, thanks for the insight.
We've only used the awning once so far and it worked perfectly, when I get her back I'll take I picture of the compressor and maybe someone on here can let me know if it's been upgraded.
I've been an RVer for 20 years but only had to deal with Fifth wheel slides (which pose there own issues) so this is a new challenge and I'll lick it once I dive in.
Actuator arms are in what looks like an arm rest box at the front and a similar box at the rear of the J couch in the back. The ram in the basement bay is for coordinating the two end A frame actuators.
The HWH compressor fills the slide air tank which supplies air to the bladder manifold(sj. The compressor also supplies air directly to the leveling manifolds which are used when manually or automatically leveling the coach.
The air line #57 has a check valve in line which isolates the compressor, the HWH tank, and the bladder manifold from any other air source. If this check valve is leaking or has failed then engine compressed air or air from an outside source could leak into this part of the air system.
It is possible your air system has been modified from it's original state. It is worth the time to understand how it is supposed to work and see if it has been changed.
Thanks Roger,
Thanks for the info on where the actuators are, I'll have to look it over to see how to gain access.
So what You're saying is, if there's a bad check valve on line 57 then air could bleed back into the bladder causing it to make contact with the slide while retracting or extending?
Photo in post 12 has lots of valuable information.
Actuators are accessed from inside but disconnected from outside , see post 12.
Line 57 check valve if failed may allow engine air to reach slide tank air normally pressurized with aux compressor.
Check your vacuum number.
If it's okay
Check your bladder pressure 11-14 good less is okay IMO but more is bad for bladder life.
Check your paint lines when closed, do they match up or is slide low? Check gaps all the way around including corners. Are they all similar? If all these are okay then proceed to next steps. Like climbing a ladder start at one end and progress. Jumping around will be difficult to make sense of any of the information you provide. With this information you can determine if slide is low or just the bladder vacuum is insignificant for proper operation.
Scott
If there was a failure of the check valve in line 57 then air from the service tanks and engine compressor could pass by the small compressor into the HWH tank and then to the bladder manifold. The pressure regulator reduces pressure to less than 15 psi which inflates the bladder when the bladder manifold is not trying to deflate the bladder. When the bladder manifold gets the signal to deflate the bladder (turn the key) the solenoids open the ports for the compressed air to pass over a venturi vent which creates a low pressure which sucks the air out of the bladder. When you retract or extend the slide, I believe the valve to the bladder line closes and holds the vacuum in the bladder and the bladder retracted. Once the slide is in and the key is off the low pressure to the bladder is restored and the bladder inflates.
So with the slide control panel key off the vacuum solenoid and the three way solenoid are relaxed porting air threw the the pressure regulator to the slide 12psi.
When the key is turned on the light timer 41 seconds starts and the power to the vacuum solenoid and the three way solenoid are activated closing off regulated air and full pressure air is diverted threw the vacuum pump block on the side of the valve producing vacuum to the slide. If the air pressure drops the vacuum diminishes. No other valves installed. With the key turned off valves relax and reapplies regulated air regardless of slide position, in, out or in between.
Scott
Thanks Scott,
That's probably a good reason to add the gauge like you did for easy reference and trouble shooting. 👍
I actually want a gauge in view next to the control panel to indicate current state both for daily use and vacuum verification during slide movement. They make some 1/16 diameter line and this would reduce the volume, however from the front slide hose to the control panel is quite close. Panel mounted combination gauge, preferably small diameter.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sww-82340?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3AmQgiZ18LInXaqcd2nvRcwFimr19jf92GK0-jFrPeOtchmPms7AIBoCFLAQAvD_BwE
Bosch gauge comes with 1/8 tubing and backlight
Amazon.com: Actron SP0F000050 Bosch Style Line 2" Mechanical Vacuum/Boost... (https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-SP0F000050-Style-Mechanical-Vacuum/dp/B00UM9X2HW/ref=sr_1_49?crid=1SNLW4669HEOB&keywords=Dual+vacuum+gauge+15+psi&qid=1646080257&sprefix=dual+vacuum+gauge+15+psi%2Caps%2C194&sr=8-49)
My dash volt meter quit working (great/blue box issue) so I replaced it with a pressure gauge connected to the HWH tank. Since the voltage and the transmission temperature are shown on VMSpc you could replace the temp gauge with a pressure/vacuum gage in it's place. I already replaced the non-functioning front and rear service tank pressure gauges dit direct connection gauges.
For those of you that have been following along and helping out on my slide situation, here's a video that I hope helps show my situation and a possible solution from all you fine folks.
Slide Video (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2FagvBEVJ2VtK93OaMvJw)
I'm hoping this is just an adjustment issue and I can adjust the front of the slide to retract evenly with the rear and solve the problem.
Scott,
So now that I have this open and I can see where the vertical adjustment is, if I want to raise the slide up slightly so it doesn't drag on the bottom would I add a shim here?
It almost looks like you can just turn the bolt and adjust or am I wrong and you have to add or subtract shims to make adjustment here?
That is NOT normal. The front ram should be bolted to the coach floor and should definitely not move like in the video!!! You probably have had a water leak into the floor area under the front actuator (happens if the older slide bladder deflates allowing water in enter), mine has wood rot but steel looks sound. The plywood floor makes up a structural component of these early slide mechanisms. Remove the pullout cabinet between the slide box and driver seat and pull up the carpet underneath...tell us what you find.
So I couldn't open video. But the actuator should not be free from floor. The forward one is accessible by pulling counter top up, Velcro downed. Square head screws removed and you should be able to remove the top. Once the top is off there is more square head screws that hold surrounding panel. Once those remove you can side off the end. At that point the end cap can be removed to access floor mount bolts. It does take a bit to sort out. Do not operate till actuator is secured. Damage will result.
So the vertical adjustment is critical to the entire assembly being mounted firm to the floor. The big nut on the rod end is not the vertical adjustment. It's done with the two 1/4-20 bolts and shims from out side bottom. Slide must be open to change.
Bracket in circle mounted to floor. Arrow points to pivot point and scissors out from there without effecting vertical height
Scott,
Your picture is hard to figure out because your slide is removed. Is this the same with my slide extended. This is from outside under the slide.
The two bolt heads you can see sticking down in your pictures are the same two bolts in Scotts picture...his view is just from the other side since his slide was removed at the time. You can see two of your shims below the silver piece in your pictures.
And the assembly is scissored out. Yes the same. Mine was fully retracted and lock pins also retracted so as to get more room to work on bladder seal. During movement those two bolts and shims maintain the height of the slide in conjunction with those roller shown in one of the photos prior on the side of the actuator assembly . This keeps vertical position in balance with the slide, with glide block on the carpet. So found a picture with extended with Fourdayoff Jim
Here's another video, looks like I found why the arm mount is moving in my earlier video...not looking good for me.
Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2FagvBHAUnPS01HeXm6qw)
dlkj, looks like you found your issue. Very unfortunate. I hope the P.O. can sleep well at night. Please keep us updated on your progress. Good luck.
Well that doesn't look good. Sorry to see these issues. I'd suggest that the damage to the inner fender is not the tire hitting it now, but rather the PO had a blowout at some point which then throws the tread all around and will beat all that stuff up pretty bad. Mine has some marks from my blowout, but my inner fender didn't break. Looks like yours is broken, then driving in water, the tire is throwing water into that area which eventually rots it away.
Remember that the human brain has a natural tendency to assume the worst case scenario, so hang in there and see this through. Everyone always says "the nice thing about FTs is that you can repair everything". I think you're about to prove that true or false.
Regarding the airbag: most of us have marks above our tires like that, where it rests on the tire. The hole is not normal but the marks/indentation are. There isn't an "air bag adjustment" for when the coach is at rest but there is for when it's in travel mode. You should have roughly 8.5" from top plate to bottom plate when in travel mode - if not, you need to adjust your ride height control valves. You have bigger fish to fry right now though. Good luck!
In light of my recent discovery of the rusted out frame above the driver's side wheel, does anyone have any recommendations for who I could take this to out here on the west coast. I'd love to drive it to the mother ship but that's just too far. Unfortunately we still work and can't get that much time off, so hopefully there's someone closer that would have the experience to do something like this. I don't have the dough right now anyway so this will be awhile out before I can get to it.
Might just fill the voids with expandable foam for now to keep any more water from entering. Obviously I can't fix the slide issue until I get in there and see the extent of the damage.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, I was going to check my ride height and then research how to adjust the control valves and also where to take an accurate measurement once in travel mode just to make sure I'm not rubbing up there too much.
Tire should NEVER rub the top of the wheel well while driving/while at ride height.
Check/adjust rear ride height first, then front. Be sure coach is level and that you have sufficient room under the coach. I drive all wheels up on two 2X10".
Temecula Valley RV is an authorized Foretravel service center and has had pretty good reviews in the past. I have not personally used them though.
Really sorry to hear how this is turning out. Yes the 2001 will rest on the tires. IFS is a complete unknown to me so yours may be different. If you put in gear before you are raised up they will drag. For what its worth I've owned my coach since 2020 and have yet to actually use the slide since purchase. It finally does work and we will use next trip for sure. Point being is they are still usable till you get to a point were a repair can be accomplished. Get it retracted and locked and dont worry about it till its time. No reason not to use the coach. And a added bonus is you will appreciate the slide even more when you can once again use it. Definitely get any waterproofing completed and any needed structural repairs completed.
Scott
I had one of my wheel wells wear through but caught it before any water got in.
I fiberglassed it and all the others and then epoxied it with a grafite mix which seems
to wear really well.
Definitely just need to take a breath and reset.
We have a trip planned this weekend with family crashing on the fold out couch so we have to use the slide at least one more time. I'll just make sure I help it along the best I can to relieve some of the pressure on that main mounting point.
The marks made by the tires rubbing are on both sides and we're definitely happening at speed. I dont think it's rubbing now but I'm still going to look up my travelling ride height for the front and rear and make sure it's good 👍
Adjusting ride height is mostly about getting the coach up to where you can crawl under the front.
The actual adjusting is really quick. And, the rears can be done without crawling under.
Also, in terms of tire to wheel well clearance, verify that the tires you have ARE the size speced on the GVWR plaque. A taller tire can rub even with everything else to spec.
So again the IFS s complete unknown, on the 2001 thestock tire touches the wheel well with The bags deflated. On the 2002 they do not touch by nearly two inches when bags flat and the 295,75r/ 22.5 tires. Fourdayoff Jim's coach for example. I do have the taller and wider tires on my coach as many others do and it's a non issue. To go one step father I even have axle limit switches to indicate when axle is very close to bottoming out. They do occasionally indicate the axle is about to touch on big freeway bumps at speed but have shown no indication of scrubbing inner upper fenderwells to date. As intended IMO it makes the coach more stable if it is relaxed setting on the tires parked. Also I would personally resist using the slide any more. If you get it hung up and sprung it will expeditionally increase repair costs. Would be beyond my skill level to Repair. It's just not worth the risk IMO.
Scott
Just so I know, is this scissor arm mounted to the metal frame or is there plywood involved here too? Pictures for reference.
So im guessing those photos are from underneath. Never actuallly looked to know. Sorry. Can look later todays when I get home if you haven't found out. It certainly rests on top on plywood
Scott
See the pictures in this post: Living room slide bladder DIY - Page 3 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=42225.msg444764#msg444764)
Ok, thanks. Yes, that is what i believe is where the arm is secured and it is accessible from just behind the front tire.
Thanks, but it doesn't look like any of those pictures answer my question.
2nd picture shows the rear arm mounted to the wood flooring.
So yes the actuator mounts to the floor to the plywood. Mine were rock solid and I never gave it much thought about mount. I dont recall any hardware going top to bottom so your picture of the nuts on the bottom makes sense. The front one is above my fuel tank I think and the rear is in the wet Bay Area, so this is why I have no recall of looking at them. Ill attempt to look at when I get home but think they are behind tank and structure preventing easily access or viewing. One would hope that if the forward mount is accessible from the wheel well it would be covered with a panel.
Scott
So in looking at these photos I guessing in the forward wheel well by the tire marks rubbing
Mine looks h to be same but secure
So I temporarily solved my slide issue...called a local welding shop (took 5 tries but someone was brave enough to get involved with my BS...on short notice.) Once I figured out which way the actuator arm was pushing my rotted frame I had a game plan.
The welder in question looked at me goofy and said "it's already 2 and we close shop at 4:30", then I replied "then we better get to it". I told him I would start disconnecting the batteries if he would cut some angle iron and make my scatter brain idea reality. I also mentioned that it's my wife and her twin sisters' 50th B-day and we've been planning this trip for months so failure is not an option, I'm leaving at 10 am tomorrow and I'm using this slide fixed or not. (Despite a few of you telling me not to do that, but I'm dumb and being baby because I spent hard earned money on this coach and want to use it as intended.) Also...as you all know, there's not much room for 2 extra people to sleep in my floor plan without the slide open.
After a quick call to Scott (dsd) for some advice on disconnecting batteries the quickest way, I went to work and so did welder dude. He reluctantly started the process but became more optimistic as he found good meat to weld to.
After cutting the angle iron he shoved it up into place with a floor jack and some wood. I wanted it shoved as far as possible up into the damaged area to keep it from pressing down while operating slide.
If you can see the video (some of you can't), you'll see the horrific movement of the area in question, then the pic's show the final product. The slide is working perfectly now and closing all the way to completion without help from me shoving it from outside and more importantly letting me select a gear to burn ass down the road. :dance: 🚎
Now time to form a game plan on ripping it down and replacing all that rot some day. 😡
...as usual, thanks for all the feedback and advice...even though I don't listen to some of it and do it my way anyway. 😜
Video: Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2FagvBoNExmpludkwEHGQ)
Good job on the repair. Looks like that welding and plate should handle the load for a bit.
I will still recommend that before driving (especially in the rain or through any water) that you seal up that big hole through the inner fender. When my tire blew, it hit the bottom of the bulkhead and made a small hole. I used this stuff to patch it...quick and easy to do. It cures with sunlight, so I laid a mirror down on the ground to reflect to the patch. I used 4 pieces, but maybe they make a bigger piece to cover your hole. I lightly sanded the area with 60 grit to rough it up, stuck on the patch and let it cure. After all were installed, I did black RTV the edges so they were sealed.
Super Glue Permanent Reinforced Polyester Fiberglass Patch #15298,Black -... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LGV0XE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Thanks for the suggestion; I have some expanding foam designed for pond repair laying around that I was thinking about squirting up in there for now but maybe I'll go your route.