My tires have been getting scalloped on the edges for the last year or so increasing with the trip to Mexico. Went to a local shop here in Oklahoma City, bostick's truck tires... For a quote. I had toyo's H rated, they happen to have 12 g-rated in stock. I asked them about the Michelin advantage program that I have through escapees and they told me that they would not be able to obtain Michelin tires right now and that pretty much everything is back, ordered and difficult to obtain. I decided to have them put six on and glad that I did. Originally. I was just going to replace the steer tires. Upon removing the passenger rear side tires, it was found that the brake pad was gone in. Metal was rubbing on metal. The rotor is gone. Needs to be replaced. They could do it there but told me that they would have very difficult time finding parts. They mentioned Freightliner in town as a possible place to go. But if I can get the parts I can have them do it and I like them so I'm going to try to do that. After the tires were back on I discovered that the part number is on the rotor which is no longer accessible to me lol. So I crawled underneath the coach to try to get the plate red off the rear axle. Well I got a good picture of it. It's still not good enough to be sure of the numbers so I'm going to have to try to go under again with some alcohol and clean it up a bit. Maybe take a piece of paper and pencil to it.
So anybody with my year coach... Craneman I'm thinking of you.. That can point me in the right direction for which part I need. Which right now is a rotor. Brake pads. Helper springs. Which I know find it parts has, and possibly new pins. Hopefully the caliper is okay. Checking the forum I have seen that this is not an unusual occurrence. Seems like it's happened to others before and it also seems that it's usually the passenger rear.
By the way, the toyos mounted, balanced and with tax came out to 3300$. If you're thinking you might need tires soon, you might want to start looking now to find what it is that you want.
Axel plate
Your rotor # should be Meritor 3218K167 (verify to make sure)
Pads Kit 15625PM
Slide pins Kit 15016
Helper springs Kit 15018
You may need a caliper rebuild kit and new slide pin bushings
You also need to check the slack adjuster for proper operation and make sure that the caliper havent been over greased causing the caliper not to retract.
Mike
Sent you an email
Sure looks like enough rotor left to turn and run.
I'd put the pads in and run it.
I don't know, just asking. Are the g rated tires able to carry the load? What was factory rating?
Remember, the load rating is at the max pressure as indicated on the tire sidewall. Lower pressure lowers the load capacity. Rotor looks good to turn. I've even used a grinder while the rotor was being turned to get it looking good. Followed by a arm style dial indicator
Pierce
Check the load chart against your nose weight.
Like Markb posted just put new pads on it. The grooves just give more braking surface and it will polish up just driving it. The grooves will be permanent but not an issue in my opinion. The picture shows as much meat on the outside as the inside.
I would be very leery about mounting new tires and calling it good when the old ones had a wear pattern on them. Make sure your alignment is correct and the suspension components are not worn. Scalloping is generally caused by worn suspension components, wheel bearings or improperly adjusted axle nut allowing to much movement, Worn shocks. out of balance.
You can have the bearing end play checked when the brakes are serviced.
You might want to purchase the proper caliper lubricants and dedicated grease guns for the shop to use. Bentonite clay filled grease may not be on their radar.
Regarding your tires, you might want to check the proper inflation pressure at whatever weight you have there. "Looks like" they may be running low, followed by loose tie rods and, or, king pins. In order of probability.
Do you know the last time the brakes were done? Do you use the retarder? I would think that if you use the retarder, brake jobs would be few and far between.
Agree about checking the suspension and components, it would be a shame if your new tires started to do the same thing as your old ones. Glad you caught it before you were on the road!
Appreciate all the replies. To be honest, when I was at the tire place I wasn't feeling that good and now I'm feeling a lot worse with a massive head. Cold. Allergies have been kicking my butt for the last week as well. So instead of saying out side and watching everything they were doing and asking questions I was basically zoning out. So that's my fault. Yeah, I agree that there may be some Worn components up front. Anybody know of a good place in Oklahoma City to get that checked out? There's no way I'm doing it not the way I feel these days. The tire place I was at would do some of that but they're access to parts these days are not good.
While I agree Just putting new pads on might be sufficient. I'm not sure that I could get a shop to just do that. They're going to insist that parts need to be switched out. I would think. I just had my Jeep Grand Cherokee suspension switched out from the air to the strutmaster coil over shocks and struts. That was done last week. The mechanic I use did not want to do it without his parts. He could not get the parts from his local dealer. Of course since strut master only sells through them I believe. He finally did do the work but with no warranty since they were not his parts. I'm still researching this thinking that maybe I would order a new disc and have them install that. If I have the correct part number, then the cost is justified. But everything back there is pretty rusty. Trying to get a mechanic to do what we would do, removing the rust and polishing the components and putting back in maybe difficult to find somebody that would do that. And where my coaches right now in a storage lot would not be a good place to do this work. The ground is soft with gravel and mud. Even if I had the ability to do it right now I wouldn't be able to.
So I'm open to ideas but I know that I can't drive the coach the way it is now. Wasn't planning on doing a trip until June so I have time.
I would recommend to start calling truck mechanics, some are mobile which is great. Semis break down and they need roadside repair, those folks have the tools and skills to handle this size rig. You may have to make numerous calls, shops are busy and the mechanics are hard to find, and not all shops are taking on new customers. At least that is how it is here. But I was able to find a mobile mechanic for my need and the rate was really fair. YMMV.
If there is a specification on the thickness of the rotor and yours is within specs. the grooves should not cause a problem for the shop. I agree a mobile mechanic might be in your best interest.
Check with the local fire department/city maintenance department. Many fire trucks have the same air disk brakes.
Might get one of their techs to moonlight.
Ok folk time to educate me and us.
The tire wear = what cause is doing it.
Kingpin wear? I have watched "bus grease monkey" showing worn kingpin, replacing. But no word on what that wear causes.
Bearings loose, yup have seen that. Know signs, also have seen worn bearings and races.
Before brakes can be troubleshoot. Doesn't the issue of above need to be done. This wear is expected on all of our coaches. So let's figure out a plan of attack to fix.
Brakes lots of good utube on our brake systems.
https://youtu.be/Ct1qy3HPiXM
Here's a big helper
Technical Help - Air Brakes (https://web.archive.org/web/20200111055429/http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/air_brakes.html)
Anyone that has spent the big bucks for brake work. Maybe a list of all the little wear items replaced would help
Minimum thickens on vented disc 1.626"
The 4M brake book is the bible when it comes to our coach brakes.
There is one or 3 listed in the media section for anyone looking.
Mike
Mike I imagine that would be per disc side?
I wish I had thought to check that because then I could have given you the answer.
The break issue is with the rear wheel and the front wheel or what got this all started with the scalloped tires. The technician there just told me that it was due to where, although it didn't seem quite right to me considering. The coach has been pulling to the right on my trip up from Mexico. So an alignment and suspension issue upfront is definitely in order. Anyone know of a good place near Oklahoma City? The tire shop recommended Freightliner which I have not looked into as yet. Since I'm not living in the coach right now, and it's in a storage lot, it can sit on a lot while they order parts if need be and it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience.
Dragging brake pad. This is caused by dirty caliper pins and is preventing caliper to relax away from disc when brake pressure is released. Annual brake pin cleaning and reinstallstion is no big deal if it's done. Daily use helps to keep cleared in active movement area. Helper springs will assist in returning to a relaxed position with brakes released. I carry a non contact pyrometer and regularity check for a hot disc first couple of stops then ignore the rest of the trip. Sorry to see this happen. Napa had pads available. My desire is to do pins every couple of years for my Circumstances
Scott
We just had our brakes repaired for the third time last summer ,,dam.
First time shortly after purchase so,,not my fault. One caliper and rotor. Pin springs added.
Second time at Foretravel. One rotor, pads and such. Dam Rocky MTNs and Siskiyou pass. Trans retarder joystick added.
Third and I hope last. New rotor and caliper with of course pads. Sure hope I've got this brake thing figured out..... seems I was so paranoid about greasing brake stuff that I never greased the caliper properly. They tried unsuccessfully to get grease in it ,,no joy. But they did show me the zerks that DON'T get greased often. So now I know. Hope third time a charm.
But I'm giving up. This point forward the coach will be going in for brake service (inspection ,greasing ,whatever) every summer in between snowbirding. That will be cheaper than replacing stuff.
And apparently the caliper was quite hard to find.
I change my wheels twice a year so I see how the linings are. when I got the coach one of the
brake pads was worn more than the others so I have been watching it and it hasn't worn more.
This year I will do as Scott says is to inspect the slide pins.
Pete. Change your wheels ??
My tire guy did tell me that if I was REALLY worried about it I could switch the inside duals to opposite outside. Regarding UV damage. Got 9 out of the Michelins so prolly not.
Snow tires up north in Canada
Im actually going to try leaving the parking brake set so the caliper doesn't drop. Pull one pin out, clean reinstall per manual and then do the other. Helper springs are already installed. No clue if it will help or hurt but going to try.
Scott
You don't need to set the parking brake. Take one pin out tilt the pads clean or replace pin then reverse. It was simple.
Tire wear is one of those issues where it can be caused by a lot of things with similar results. On the steer tires. The aforementioned bearing end play. Out of balance. Blown shocks. Even the tire itself can cause scalloping. When I was an owner-operator. Michelin was notorious for having the steel belts slip a bit inside the carcass and would basically go out of round or not run flat across the tread and either pull or thump. And Michelin was also notorious at denying that they had a problem and is why I will never run Michelin's. But that was the late 90's to 2007.
When I discovered my brakes were down to metal and the disc's needed replacing while having new tires mounted. I had no reservations of driving the coach to a shop. The brakes were already toast and the coach would still stop. In this case the retarder on level 6 is your best friend.
My local shop had no issue obtaining any of the parts needed. They of course hadn't seen many of the Meritor air discs.
For the tires google 'tire rivering'. Michelin has a good explanation.
Think I'd be bleeding the brake fluid and looking for air in the lines.
No brake fluid in an air brake system.
Too much toe in will also do that to the tire outer edge .
I always look for your replies. Your Otr experience is so Valuable to all. These are Toyo tires. Some concern about right pull when on good road. Good word on Michelin Tires. Tks
To be fair to Michelin. That was many years ago. But I still won't run them (even on my 2 Subaru's) because they tend to be over priced. After all, someone has to pay for all those racing sponsorships. Been happy with my Toyo M-137's.
Bob had Toyo, replaced with Toyo.
Problem is looking like front end needs over haul. Steering box is new also all shocks with recent airbags. So everything else has to be gone over. All rubber parts, bearings, rods etc. Only then can brake and alignment be done.
I have been trying to find good information on what issues worn Kingpins can cause. I do see they will add movement in all directions to the wheel assembly on each side. Are there any signs that can point to (this xxx is caused by worn kingpin).? Improper bearing setup, damaged bearings add play to each wheel assembly. Are rubber parts replacement parts available in urethane? As these wear better.
You can check king pin wear by lifting the front axle and prying top and bottom to see movement. If king pins are not neglected on greasing they hardly ever wear out. My crane has 400,000 mi. and the king pins show no wear. My mistake was buying the king pins and bushings before checking that they were still good. I am out of the crane business and have a brand new kit sitting on a shelf for a 1981 International S 2500.
I personally wouldn't worry about urethane bushings. The rubber ones last a long time as well. Just not as long as urethane.
Just got a complete front/rear set from FT.
Bigdog,what rubber parts exactly did you get,asking because I have done all 10 of my torque rods and could walk you thru the process.
I have a bad torque rod mount on the rear axle (very small crack) Asked FT about it over a year ago and they said they would make a new one off of the blueprints. They never got back to me. When I contacted FT. They were very apologetic as the mounts were made off site. But they have the steel plates. I said I also wanted to change out the bushings when the mount was fixed. So FT sent me the bushings for all of the torque rod ends and the plates to fix the mount. And sent it to me at no cost as an apology for being so tardy. I have included a photo of the bushings. I thought they were going to be the rubber ones. But they sure look like urethane to me. Probably easier to install the urethane bushings. I offered to pay for the bushings. But Foretravel insisted on sending everything gratis. So they certainly earned respect for doing that when they didn't need to. So well done FT.
EDIT to add: I have eight of those bushings. Enough to do the rear axle.
Ive always been concerned about using the urethane bushing because of the deceased torsional movement inherent to there design. I think if your coach was to be on flat asphalt its entire life they would be fabulous. I use mine off of flat asphalt a lot more than most and think that it would increase the torsional loads on the bars and the coach by not flexing as much. For my application I think I'll stay with the rubber mounts.
Scott
Was under the coach today. Have a better view now of the axel plate. Looks like a Rockwell RS21.
Now to find out what the other parts are ...
Bigdog,those are the same ones I used,you can get extra nuts and bolts at Fastenal,I had some where the metal piece was rust
welded to the bolt and had to cut the 1 inch bolt in 2 places to remove.They do seem like urethane but a soft version.
Yes they deflect fairly easily when squeezed. So they are much softer than ones used for sports cars. As the only time I will go off road is in the middle of an accident. I won't worry about them being to stiff.
Thanks for those part numbers. Right now the coach is at heartland truck sales and service in Oklahoma City. They're going to have somebody from Freightliner come over and verify part numbers. Don't know how long the coach will be here but I show them that find it parts has these in stock.
It's been very difficult to get into a bay long enough where they could lock my coach in at night. I was getting kind of frustrated waiting. The big concern is finding the correct parts which is a problem right now with the supply chain being what it is. I'll update when I know for sure.
Does anybody have a part number or link to the clay based grease that we use on these braking systems? I could not find it.
Meritor Air Brake Grease, 2297X7304 Amazon.com: Meritor Air Brake Grease, 2297X7304 : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088SNR5GK/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_67D3081JVXZHXX8RA165)
Found this doing a search for Meritor air brake grease. No mention about it being clay-based even on the meritor site...
Thanks!
Bob
clay based grease (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21729.0)
Mobil Mobiltemp SHC 32 14oz Tube: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0153YE0IU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1p13NParams&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUDZHREQ5NVUzNzNGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDc5NjM3MVU3MlNFQ0pRUFU5SCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzI0MTMzMzlPQ0xXRE5QWU8yWiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbDImYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl)
That be what I use. One tube will mot than do it.
I just bought some Mobil SHC 32. 4 tubes with shipping $45.45
Mobiltemp SHC 32 (NLGI-1.5) [12.5-oz./354-g. Tube] 110644 - EVO Lube Supply (http://www.evolubesupply.com/mobiltemp-shc-32-nlgi-1-5-12-5-oz-354-g-tube-110644/)
Shop is looking at the coach now. They're finding that the driver's side caliper wasn't working either. They want to replace the caliper on the driver's side rear, they don't know about the other side yet. This is going to get expensive...
You need Meritor KIT 15007 for left side caliper major repair kit
Meritor KIT 15006 for right side caliper major repair kit
These are major repair kits for rebuilding those calipers. Everything is included in these but the caliper housing to fix your calipers. These are expensive enough but a lot less than trying to find a complete caliper.
Mike
Be absolutely dead sure that helper springs are put on all slide pins, period. ALL, not just the brake(s) being worked on.
Just make sure the guy doing the work IS familiar with the air disk brakes and that you do use the supplemental spring kit.
You don't want someone to learn how to work on them on YOUR coach.
KIT15007LH by MERITOR - Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake - Shaft Replacement Kit (https://www.finditparts.com/products/39497/arvin-meritor-kit15007lh)
$641
Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake Shaft Replacement Kit - KIT15007LH (https://www.jittruckparts.com/meritor-genuine-meritor-genuine-air-disc-brake-shaft-replacement-kit-kit15007lh?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-JyUBhCuARIsANUqQ_IghORSAfcX85rrwGDrsJP1W_BZKJTr1ZCq2BJjBL0uURDG1U7yFDMaAp_6EALw_wcB)
$612
KIT15006RH by MERITOR - Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake - Shaft Replacement Kit (https://www.finditparts.com/products/39496/arvin-meritor-kit15006rh?srcid=CHL01SCL010-Npla-Dmdt-Gusa-Svbr-Mmuu-K39496-L217&srcid=CHL01SCL004&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-JyUBhCuARIsANUqQ_JW0asqotr9mJbMUrS2U56nVoGr1_1KAhKUgg5oVsFRI_S1hBGhWmAaAkybEALw_wcB)
$450
Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake Shaft Replacement Kit - KIT15006RH (https://www.jittruckparts.com/meritor-genuine-meritor-genuine-air-disc-brake-shaft-replacement-kit-kit15006rh?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-JyUBhCuARIsANUqQ_L8oh5xmQULAazh2CUGbI7_krZz8vafmzS-vxk3XVlw7AVSWEEPobEaAu4wEALw_wcB)
$612
Use only clay based grease. These breaks are very different than others. You WILL have trouble if the Meritor brake manual is not followed exactly. Don't ask me how I know and there is a soft recall spring to keep them from hanging up. Get it
Thanks for the part numbers. They sent somebody over from Kenworth to help identify the parts. My feeling is is that they're not going to want to rebuild the caliber but just put a new one on. I did mention the springs and I'll again remind my service manager about that.
This is quite a stressful experience for me right now. Just went through the suspension issues with the Jeep, and now this. I'm trying to get out of Oklahoma and can't seem to do it right now. What's funny is that when I drove the coach over to there it stopped pretty well other than being a little grippy which I assumed was from no more meat on the disc brake. I'm sure sitting around for the last four or five months in Mexico and not being properly lubricated help to cause this problem...
It'll get done though. At least if we can get parts. That's the big thing. All these truck companies keep saying to me that they are having a huge problem getting parts even when you see them listed as available online.
If I felt comfortable and had all the tools I needed I would do it myself and rebuild the calipers. However, I don't have that capability and with brakes being a pretty important thing, not sure. I really want to try learning on it.
Heartland trucking service center in Oklahoma City right off I-40. The place is full of over the road trucks. They have good reviews on Google and I'm pretty comfortable with them at this point. Not all of the companies I looked at in this area I could say that about. Still trying to find out if they were able to get the part numbers or not. They're closed on the weekends so I may not find out till Monday but I'm still better than I was 5 hours ago.
I have done a lot of work on drum brakes but disk brakes are new to me so I'm learning
about them. I watched the video that Texhub but up but mine are different. I guess mine
is an older version. I talked to a friend and he and his brother who owned a truck shop had
never worked on them. Drum brakes have always worked great for me and there is no trouble
getting parts.
Bob I don't know if someone has sent you this manual but here it is.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=1701
A good 10" drum on a big rig has a lot of stopping power when cold. I remember how easy it was to lock up all six. But fade in inherent in the design and once they are hot, they don't cool down rapidly. Working on them is harder plus the drums weight a lot and adds to the unsprung weight. All part of the reason disk brakes have dominated the vehicle market for the last few decades. Even bicycles have them now.
Fire departments went to disk brakes first as the very frequent maximum braking effort followed by acceleration and them more braking overheated the drum brakes on each emergency response, especially if the city had any hills. A couple of our trucks had 10,000 lbs of liquid on board so increasing the stopping power was welcome.
Arguments for both types on big rigs but for our use in a motorhome, the advantages of disk brakes far outweighs any disadvantages. Disc brakes vs. drum brakes (https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/hard-braking-considerations-disc-or-drum/)
Pierce
On a mountain bike I would only use disk brakes. On a coach both kinds work for me as
I only use brakes to stop. Right now I am much more familiar with drum brakes but I guess
I'm I am going to learn about disk brakes.
The major difference between drum and disc is the hotter a drum brake gets the less brakes you have as the drum expands and the stroke stays the same. The reason for the runaway ramps for trucks. The cans used to only have a 2" stroke and when the drums expanded the shoes didn't reach the drums. disc is the opposite the hotter the better up to a point.
Pierce, is that 10" wide? I thought the minimum truck drum diameter was ranging from 12.25 x 6.00 to 18.00 x 8.00
Curious. My 3/4 ton dodge has 12" diameter as I recall
Scott
Surface area on the drum and shoe width was 10." We had too many old trucks from the 1950's that ran out of brakes quickly in non emergency driving in the hills behind SB. The early Crowns were better but we started specifying 10" wide drums on the later Crowns, La Frances, etc. Easy to smoke all 6.
When we re-powered with Detroit 8V-71s, the admin knew nothing about diesels so passed up the chance to add Jakes to the orders as they were too cheap to spend a dime more than they had to. Terrible mistake. I ran out of brakes in the Malibu mountains and had to put the La France's right side down into the shoulder to stop it. And this was in 1st gear. The Internationals had Alisons with retarders but with 1000 gallons of water and 250 gal of diesel, it didn't take much to make the big yellow warning light come on.
Pierce
1) Order the parts and have them shipped to the garage of your choice.
2) If I can administer antibiotics through a previously place PICC line, you can follow the instructions to re-build your calipers.
That being said, after Lynn stuffed the Studebaker last summer, and the car was towed to the body shop of my choice, I ordered the parts and had them shipped to the shop. End of drama.
Thanks! Have it. Been studying it.
Old toolmaker, if I could, I would. Been thinking about it. But no place to do it..
When I was young they used water to cool the brakes on the logging trucks. There was a big
tank of water which they put in 10 lbs. of air pressure to cool the brake. The driver needed to
know what they were doing. Water too soon it might effect the brakes stopping power and if
waited too long they would brake the drums. They best cooling was steam coming off the brakes.
Then just order the parts and end the Drama.
Years ago, my friend Don sent the tranny from his '57 300 out for overhaul. Then learned more about the transmission and sent it out to someone else to be done over again, this time in high horsepower trim. Somewhere in this journey the torque converter was held up "because it needs a new ring gear" so don found one ordered it and had it shipped to the shop doing the torque converter. Problem solved.
Lol .. yeah you know what they say. It's all fun and games until someone loses a wiener lol. Yeah they quoted me over $8,000. So after careful consideration and a offer from John 44 to come and do the work at his place in Tennessee, I have just called the company to say I'll be picking up the coach today. They have an ordered parts yet so.
So they told me that the calipers are on back order and not available. Anybody have a part number for the calibers on the rear Axel? Since I paid to have them come look at it and give me part numbers I'm pretty sure they'll have it but want to see if anybody here on the forums have it. Also not quite understanding the rebuild kit part numbers. One says left hand one says right hand on the rebuild caliper kits. Are we talking about two parts of the caliper? Or the left side and the right side? Seems like a simple question... And I should have that answer before I order it. From what I see on find it parts, the rebuild kits are as expensive as the calipers but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the same thing or not.
Bob
The major repair kit is made one for right side the other for the left. The difference is the actuator shaft helical splines are backwards from each other. So a left side and right side. The way the shop gave you info it seemed like you had major damage now you may only need the Meritor KIT 15001 Minor repair kit for each side. This is basically a seal/Oring, spring, and pin set that runs for ~$100. Any shop that has worked on this type disc brake system should know that you rebuild the calipers not just replace parts.
Mike
Thanks Mike. There's a couple hundred dollar difference between the two so I was wondering what that entailed.. I'm pretty sure that it meant one for each side, but not sure why they're such a huge price difference.
Find it parts once over $400 to ship the rotor. They're also not currently offering their 10% off. Jit trucking. Had a 10% off yesterday and now it's no longer there. So much fun...
Okay I'll parts are now ordered. Initially everything but the rotor was coming from. Find it parts.com. I was able to get the caliper rebuild kits major, along with new side pins kit, that also comes with the return springs, meritor, Grease , and new pads. For some reason they were quoting me $450 for shipping but when I took the rotor out, shipping was free so I ordered all the parts except the rotor. Rotor. Figured I could get the rotor at a local Napa. I can but it's $4 80 or so dollars. Just now. I look back on find it parts and was able to order the rotor for 298 with free shipping. I have absolutely no idea why it changed. But it didn't and I'm happy about that. Also got a 20% off coupon to use and some points that I accrued with the other parts order. So right now all parts are ordered and I'm going to order a few bigger snap ring pliers.
When I picked up the coach today, the estimate that heartland trucking gave me seemed fair. Not fair to me necessarily, but based on today's pricing I thought it was fair. But it was over 5,000 just for the passenger rear and that's not including having other issues with the caliper. Which they already said they would not rebuild only replace and there were no replacement units currently available. At least that's what I'm told. $8, 000 if you include replacing the caliper on the driver side. I drove it back to my storage area in the rain and had no problems stopping. Be interesting to see what it actually is looking like there when we take it apart.
If anybody needs anything from find it parts, CAUSE10 he'll get you 10% off. Don't know how long it's good for.
Bob
How will you get it to TN from OKC? Can it be driven that far?
I think I can without a problem. It doesn't appear to be dragging and in the 35 minutes of driving back to my storage area I didn't notice any issues.
So a couple of thoughts that I'm looking into. Maybe somebody has the answers for me.
What other things do I need to be thinking about with this job? Will I need to put new studs in the rotor? If so, does anybody know the size of those studs? Are they pressed in or bolted in?
What other tools should I be considering? Will I have to replace the bushings on the calipers? If so, does anybody have a part number for that?
Will I need to drain the oil from the transaxle? If so, what does it take? And how much.
I realize all these things could be researched on the forums, but frankly I don't have time so I'm asking for help here. Got a lot going on at the moment...
The nuts holding the wheels on are kind of old now too I guess. So should I replace those? If so does somebody have a part number?
Anything else? I'm not thinking or considering?
Thanks
Bob
Service manual for Meritor with drawings for how to do it are on our Forum here: https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=1701
My PDF with all the drawings and part numbers is too big to post and I don't have time as I have an appointment so can't split it so send email or wait until tonight and I will compress it and post it.
See YouTube for videos of how to do it.
Pierce
1. Possible they will have to be measured with a micrometer to see if they are in spec.
2. KIT 15010 If the number hasn't changed sense the last time I got some.
3. I wouldn't
Mike
Bob when I got our coach I drove to the tire shop and found the caliper dragging. Against the rules I spayed with cleaner lube . Beat with the tire sledge till it was loose and drove 1500 miles home. Had my son go out side first couple of stops to verify it was not dragging and checked temperature with heat gun regularly till I was comfortable with it. Once it was back in service it wasn't a issue. Got home cleaned and replaced brakes added helper springs. Still check after the first initial stop but has worked great since
Scott
Meritor Parts pp 40-82
Pierce
The remaining two post should finish the Meritor Parts List/Diagrams. Attached pp 1-20
Pierce
Meritor pp 21-40
For a seamless document, the PDFs will have to be merged with Acrobat or other app.
Pierce
So just got a chance to look at my parts today and notice that some things seem fairly big. I'm not sure if I ordered the right stuff now or not lol.
MERITOR KIT15016 - Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake - Pin Slider And Return Kit X2
MERITOR KIT15006RH - Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake - Shaft Replacement Kit
MERITOR KIT15007LH - Meritor Genuine Air Disc Brake - Shaft Replacement Kit
MERITOR KIT15625PM - Disc Brake Pad Set - Air Disc Brake, Fire/Emergency Trucks X2
MERITOR 3218K167 - Disc Brake Rotor - 15.3 in. Outside Diameter, U-Shaped Rotor
Just found out that I could stay another month here in Oklahoma City. So I think that I won't be getting this work done till late July. So I still have time if I need other parts. I'm not sure if the wheel seal is in one of these part bags. Or do I have to order one separate?
Appreciate craneman putting all of the pictures of his brake job online.
I did not see the helper springs for the slide pins. Did I miss them?
Don't see them on his list either.
Picture 5 has a bag with 2 gray springs above the pins.
John 44 I think that those springs are for the centering bolts.
Well you're right I didn't order them. I thought they were in one of the kits that I bought but evidently not. I'll order them tonight. Thanks for catching that! I do have three tubes of clay based grease. Now. One is mobile and the other two are meritor.
What about the axle seal? Anybody have a part number for that?
Thanks!
Okay I ordered the helper springs from meritor. Two sets didn't get me to $50 for free shipping so I bought another of the TriCore 26-in wiper blades That not only got me free shipping but I also from that large brake order got a $20 off coupon. So I have a few dollars extra to buy another six pack of Guinness.
Thanks for your help and as always I will post pictures and progress once it is done.
Almost had a cow for a second. Looks like there was only one spring in each package. Note to self look at the package closer. The springs are entwined together. So two packages of springs will get the rear done. I'm kicking myself a little bit that I didn't order four sets to do the fronts as well.
So now I have to think about that...
Okay an update and question. Arrived at John 44's place in Drummond Tennessee today. Going to start work in the morning. Got 5 days of rain coming so it's going to be fun.
My question is should I block the coach up? Meaning raise it all the way up and put in the stands?
Still need to rebuild my front six pack so I have a little bit of a leak. I'm wondering if it is better to raise or leave it down?
Thanks!
Of course! They'll be plenty of pictures hopefully. If it doesn't stay at 106° for the rest of the week, maybe I will survive this.
Appreciate everybody's input on the thread. Really appreciate John 44 and his wife and family letting me hang out here until it's done.
I block mine up anytime I'm working near or under the coach. Way to easy to be safe.
My recommendation is to block it up. It gives more room to work on the brakes and if you need to any other work such as your 6 pack it is necessary.
Thanks gentlemen. I do have a leak in my front six pack and a rebuild kit and if I have chance to do it while I'm here I'm going to do that too. Raising and blocking my front driver's Side wheel is always an issue though but I will give it a try. Which is of course why I need to rebuild the six pack lol.
It's supposed to rain The next few days starting tomorrow and it's still going to be in the high '90s.
Got to love it!
You can use a bottle jack to finish raising the driver's side wheel. John will help you position it.
Okay got the wheels off. That was an adventure when they changed the tires. Of course they used in the matic impact driver and I'm sure they over torqued it. David and I got it off with two breaker bars. My first one 3/4-in drive breaker bar broke on one of the nuts. Fortunately David had another one. We use two tubing extensions on top of the bar so it was probably a good 6 ft. Long and that was able to break the nuts. Finally, That was hard. Was jacking and getting the 25 ton jack stands position properly That took a little doing. But it's done. Next up is removing the caliper.
I know how to remove the caliper I believe, but one thing I'm not sure about is removing the spring brake from that side. I've never done that so I know there's like a rubber gasket. You pull that up and then you pulling something. Maybe push down something. I don't know. The videos that I saw weren't real clear on that one. Any ideas?
The next issue is pulling and separating the ventilated disc from the axle. We're going to attempt that next after a hydration and cooling break. We started at 7:30 and by 10:30. I'm already exhausted. I probably just sweated about a gallon and I've only put in about 2 l of water. We're two old guys trying to do this so it takes time.
The other interesting thing was my crossfire system wasn't exactly sure how to remove that and so I just did. And of course both tires. Deflated That made it a little bit harder to get the tires off the studs, but we eventually did get that done too.
Dude! Nice Rotor!
Block the house in its full up position. Don't even think about if it's necessary or not, just do it.
Jacks stands to support the axle: Check.
Lug nuts. I bring my own torque wrench and insist on doing the final tightening either myself of with my close supervision. End of story.. Over tightening the nuts brings you that much closer to failure. It's like Goldilocks and the 3 bears.
Cage the spring in the rear cans before removal. Look it up, study the picture and make sure the caging bolt is secure. If the one on the outside of your can is missing, hit the truck supply NAPA.
You wrote "You pull that up and then you pulling something. Maybe push down something. I don't know. The videos that I saw weren't real clear on that one. Any ideas?"
Yeah, look at the parts manual and the exploded view.
The good news about all of this is that you can take your time, you don't have to worry about the patient being alive at the end of the procedure.
When I got the snow tires for the Monaco I saw them with a torque wrench so I though great
until I wanted to put the summer tires on. If they over torque the nuts the torque wrench is
useless. My son figured that 2 of the nuts were over 1000 ft. lbs.
Mariner's Choice's Never Seez reduces the torque by 41%, the most reduction of any no seize product. You only need a 300# torque wrench to equal the recommended torque for the Budd style nuts. Never Seize Mariner's Choice Anti-Seize (https://neverseizeproducts.com/mariners-choice/)
About one turn with the torque ratchet and then my tiny Makita 18V 1/4" impact spins them off (or on). That's all I use.
If worried, you can purchase the loose nut indicators (38mm for Budd) at: loose wheel nut indicators 38mm: Search Result | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=loose+wheel+nut+indicators+38mm&_sacat=0)
Pierce
Bob's wheels are not Budd, 33mm metric hub center.
"Cage the springs before removal." BUT it is much easier if you release the parking brakes before you cage. They are almost to the fully caged position with parking brake released IE air in spring brake. Then set the parking brake to release air from spring brake after being caged. You can do by skipping this step but you will have to wrench them the entire distance against the spring.
Scott
They sell all sizes at the link I provided. I was using ours as an example. Just measure the nut and compare.
Pierce
Thanks Scott. Unfortunately I was outside all day working after I posted that last post so didn't see this until tonight. I spoke to Chuck IE craneman today and he gave me some good advice on some of the issues I'm having. I was able to cage to breaks after watching a YouTube video so no issues there. The next issue that we had was getting the caliper pins off. The top wasn't so bad. The bottom was quite difficult. Once we got the pin out, saw that it had some deep corrosion in a few spots. I don't think that this issue is just with the slide pin so I may be wrong, But I did buy the rebuild kits on the calipers because the company in Oklahoma City wanted to put new calipers on. I figured rebuilding them would be better. Anyway, now I'm at the point where I've got the caliper off and the can separated from it and I am trying to get the piston out of the bore. The manual calls for a special tool that I don't have so I called craneman. He had some good ideas. I'm going to give that a shot tomorrow. If my ideal doesn't work which is to use some 8-in c clamps, I may have to grind them down a little bit to get at the snap ring that's holding the piston in. If the c clamps don't work then I will try something different that craneman had mentioned. I went to harbor freight this evening to get to see clamps and I found a tool to compress a disc brake on a car. It won't really work for this application, but it has a nice piece of metal that I can bend and use it to compress the piston. It shouldn't take very much compression to release the c-clamp. Going to do that in the morning. The other thing I'm going to do tomorrow is to pull the axle so we can replace the disc rotor. If I can get the caliper rebuilt tomorrow and I have a seal for the axle. I'm hoping by this time tomorrow the passenger side wheel will be done. Then it's on to the driver's rear wheel where I'm going to pull the wheels and check the caliper. The company in Oklahoma City that looked at my code said that that caliper was not moving yet. I had really no issues with stopping and breaking the coach on my way from Oklahoma to Tennessee. I don't know if I completely trust what they told me.
Bob it does sound like they were peddling parts to me. Slide pins if removed every other year would be happier im sure. The corrosion on my pins were in the exposed unused portion. But the Chrome next to the pits may be rolled up?
Manual says to replace if any pits are on pins. I polished out some and replaced some thinking every year I would replace a couple of the worse ones. I use a 6" metal polishing scotch brite wheel to dress up mine. But I'm not recommending because it is deviating from the manual. Ive never rebuilt those calipers and would follow what Chuck recommends. Sure is nice having a circle of smart people to draw off information from.
Good luck
Scott
Looking at that piston boot it don't look to be overheated and burnt up. From the earlier word from the shop I was expecting the caliper to look a lot worse but that one sure don't look bad and shouldn't need anything but a minor repair kit.
Mike
Scott? We don't tell Bob this until after he's caged the second can. This is supposed to be a learning experience for Bob.
Art
It may just need slide pin service and cleaning. May be nothing at all wrong with it. I do like the helper springs to prevent brakes dragging (again caused by dirty pins)
I have to agree with Mike and Scott those calipers look good to me but I'm a newbie when it
comes to disk brakes.
Bob and I made the caliper tool and got caliper apart,he is rebuilding now, he will have pictures.
Yes, you're right. It may not need a complete overhaul however, since I already have the parts and a good place to do it with with an excellent partner to work with, might as well do it. Either. It'll last for another 160,000, mi or more, I'll mess it up even worse and have to buy a new caliber. Nobody was pushing parts on me. It was just the fact that they were going to replace the whole calipers on both sides and I decided to rebuild them. Since I've never done that before and didn't know what was involved, I bought the rebuild kits and that's what's in it. Sure, I probably could have just cleaned the pins up and put everything back together and it might have been fine but might not have been and I don't really want to have to do this ever again.
But points well taken.
I did have to crank down on that spring break quite a bit so lesson learned!
To get the piston out of the bore , I bought a tool from harbor freight, modified it with a metal cutting wheel, shaped it after heating it with a torch and it worked great. Not as good as the tool that narrator supposedly has, but David aka John 44 looked for it online and couldn't find one. Craneman had an excellent idea as well with using a small turnbuckle and fashioning a u-shaped piece, but this worked fine and it was $8.99 at harbor freight.
And besides one of these days one of you guys are going to be in this position. Might be in 20 years from now, and somebody's going to look back on this thread and say oh that's the way you do it, or that's one way to do it anyway.
Lol. And it also reminds me of the time when I was going to replace the generator motor mounts and do some work on there and everybody told me I had to replace the thrust bearing . That turned out to be almost the end of the genny .. luckily I'm half Irish so I'm lucky. Course. The other half of me is Ukrainian.... Us Ukes aren't always lucky...
Can you post a picture of the tool after modification?
The last one is it.
Heavy rains last night and this morning here in Drummond Tennessee so I didn't get started until late. My job for today was to remove the axle. I started working on the nuts behind the studs first so I could separate the axle and the ventilated disc. I think I got four off. My first issue was since the nuts were on the back side. I forgot that I needed to turn it the other way so I was trying to tighten one for a while instead of remove it until I figured that out. Half an hour in the air conditioning and fans blowing in a liter of water. Later I was back out there and it was able to break every single not loose from the studs. Imagine my surprise when as I continued to back the nuts out The corrosion on the ends of the inner studs and I had to switch to smashing my one and 1/8 in harbor freight. Chinese made wrench with a 5 lb hammer. Even though I put plenty of PB blaster on and I even clean the threads as best as possible with a stainless steel brush, there was enough corrosion and junk on the ends of the studs that I could not get the nuts off easily. Tomorrow is more rain and I'm hoping to get the rest of those nuts off. If I could pull the axle tomorrow that'd be great, but at the rate these nuts are going. It takes me about an hour per nut and there's 10 of...
No pictures today Really that were worth posting.
Oh and then a tree fell 10 to 15 ft in front of the coach. Well it wasn't a very big tree. It would have done some damage if it had connected. Fortunately it did not. Rain is in the forecast for the next couple days So don't think I'm going to get much done .
You are going to have to pull the hub off anyway so wait until you have it off and use an impact gun for those nuts.
Tried that with a swivel and won't work,rotor is right in back of the nuts,can barely get a rachet in there,just enough clearence
to get the nut off the stud,could use a 1 1/8 rachet wrench.
Last things first, take some much needed down time. It gives you time to think.
The heart of the problem. You need two gasses, oxygen and acetylene, some gauges, hoses and a couple of valves to control the flow of the gasses. Plus a smaller nozzle than you might think. And a source of ignition. Place the tip of that bright blue flame, on the flat of one nut until you have a red hot spot that lasts once you remove the heat. Then apply the wrench.
Some spoil sport will be along shortly to tell you that the end of the wrench will become very hot in use.
Thanks but no thanks,were doing fine.
I don't have that kind of a torch, but I do have a propane torch that gets pretty hot and I did apply heat to one of the bolts and it made it a little bit easier to turn but not super better. So far. The best thing I found was just hammering away at the one and one eighth inch box and wrench. At first I would didn't wear ear plugs but after my ears started ringing of course I put some in.
Again, appreciate all input and will post more pictures as this progresses.
If you had access to an oxy-acetylene set the difference in heat delivery is like night and day. On a difficult nut, the entire nut eventually ends up being red hot. But the minimum needed is heating the area of one wrench flat red hot. This makes the nut just a little bit larger on the inside and is usually enough to spin the nut off with surprising ease. Vigorous cleaning with a wire brush, as you have learned, is a big help, as is an overnight soak with penetrating oil.
I've tackled the wiring on the Studebaker and have made good headway.* So much so that I want to keep moving forward. But, and it took many years to learn this, I need to rest** for a couple of days before I begin making mistakes.
Art
* The body shop that repaired the collision damage swapped the headlights so that the dual filament bulbs are the inner pair.
** Current resting blood pressure is 85/58, active is 110/78. So it is what it is, but I'm avoiding chest pains.
FYI,axle socket needed is 4 inch,6 point,will post a Mac tool part number.
Art those blood pressures are fine as long as you feel okay.
Made excellent progress today. David and I got the rest of the nuts off the back after hammering and like crazy and the 10th nut came off with a 3/4 inch drive ratchet. Once we got that off we started tackling getting the actual axle out. The axle came right out without any issues. Once you remove the eight nuts that hold it in place. There's a nut, a lock washer and then a cone shaped device that is about half inch long. Maybe I'll post a picture of it tomorrow. If I remember. I don't have the gasket for the end of the axle but I went to O'Reilly's and bought some gasket making material as the one that I have in the coach is for high temperature with metal sandwiched in between and cutting it up was not fun and it was cutting my hands so that ain't going to work.
Once the exit was out I was presented with a dilemma that I forgot about. The two nuts that hold everything in, that the bearing rests against. I did not have the proper tool for that. I've seen on the internet where people took them off with a chisel. We tried that and that was no bueno. Next thing was to try to find the proper size tool which was interesting because while it looked like it measured 3 and 7/8 in it was an actually a 4-in socket. Nobody had them in stock around here. The RV repair guy down the road did not have one but a neighbor told us about a truck guy down the road. So off we went. James was his name and he looked at me square in the eye and says I do not lend my tools out. I said yes sir. I understand. Meanwhile, David took him in the back and they were talking about this Fleetwood 40 ft RV that he's working on replacing the entire engine. That's a different story for another day, and the next thing I know David's got two of these in his hands. One three and seven eighths and one 4 in. Really high quality ones too. Back to the shop. We got the nut off and it was on pretty tight. I needed to use an impact driver and when I looked up the torque rating for it it said 300 ft lb. So now I know why it was on so tight. That nut backs up against a piece of metal that locks that nut in place and then behind. That is another spacer ring that has holes through it That mates with the first nut. We haven't put those on yet. We'll do it tomorrow. David put all the nuts that we took off the back of the studs in a acid bath and they came out looking almost like new and he put those on and those get torqued at 100 ft lb. So to sum it up the caliper is rebuilt and waiting to be installed tomorrow, the new rotor is on and the bearing is back in and the preload is set, or I have to do is make a new gasket for the axle end. Put it back on and we could load the caliper back on with the new pins and brake shoes tomorrow. Hopefully. The temperature is been better today so things were a lot smoother.
Bob
Raining all day pretty much and I feel a little tired. Did manage to get the axle in. Didn't have the gasket for the end so I made one.
I must have read something incorrectly . The 2 axle bearing lock nuts are very low torque on most Timkin style tapered wet bearings. The first nut sets the endplay and the lock ring and keeper nut set the inner nut solid. I set my endplay for these by the book at just a little, Maybe 002- 005 thou.
The fronts get snugged to zero plus and tiny backed off. About zero .
The only time that the lock nut gets set tight , is when a spacer is between the hub inner races, preventing damaging the bearings by over torquing .
Please verify your assembly per manual before you move the bus, if you set the bearings tight. And if you did, remove the outer bearing and peak at the rollers and cone ,making sure that you have not flat spotted anything.
Bob installed the inner nut and spacer plate to where it was by the turns,we torqued the outer nut to 300 ft lbs. and it ended up in the same position where it was when we started,Bob got all the specs from Meritor.
The outer 4in nut? with the fold over lock tabs? 300 Sounds like a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa48Ed_ikB0
250 -300 looks right on this video. I set my endplay the same but have never set the skinny nut that tight .
David and I just got back from taking the 4-in socket back to James the truck guy that lent it to us. Awesome dude. We were talking about just this thing. Sometimes he says there's a sleeve between the inner and outer bearings, and then you do torque the inter nut tight. But on ours it was no sleeve. Per the meritor manual, torque the first nut down to 200 foot pounds then back it off to set the bearing while rotating the hub then then I forget what else it said... But for craneman and I believe that this is right because it wound up in the exact same place as the nut was when I took it off, Mark where it is, take it off counting the revolutions of how many turns it took to remove which was 11 . I did that. The nut wound up to be in the exact same spot as I was previously. I did still twerk it to 200 lb and then backed it off to the same place while turning the hub. When we put the spacer on that locks that nut in and then the tabbed spacer before finally torquing that last nut in, wound up in the exact same spot that it was originally. So I'm pretty confident that it's on properly. James, the mechanic confirmed that.
A retired Canadian GM rear end specialist took me to school on setting up rear ends. The sleeve is a crush sleeve and torque on new bearings is more than if you are reinstalling the same bearings. The preload on the bearings was more than I expected but when everything is up to temp, it's fine. He would then use a brush to put a lead paste on the ring and pinon, use a wrench to rotate back and forth to see the pattern on the gears. They never made a sound after he was done.
For more precise torquing, they make crush sleeve eliminators available here: https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/differential-pinion-bearing-spacers-and-sleeves/product-line/yukon-gear-axle-crush-sleeve-eliminator-kits Not sure what Meritor uses.
We would pick up a new car at the factory in Sindelfingen with the delivery office telling us that we could max out the speed on the way to the ship in Bremen or Emden but we should stop a couple of times so the rear end (third member) could cool a little.
Pierce
Slow progress but progress nonetheless. Just was going to replace the pads and the pins on the driver's rear but after pulling everything it wasn't moving freely. That's the piston I mean. So took off the caliper rebuilt it, since I had the parts anyway, and today. Hopefully if the rain cooperates I will put it back on and button the whole thing up after topping off the gear oil in the transaxle and looping the brakes and chassis. This has been a rough job, not for the faint of heart. Nor could I have done it by myself. Maybe if I had one inch air impact tools I could have. But, the hardest part so far really has been breaking the lug nuts that the previous mechanic over torqued with an air gun. But we may be old guys. Guys but we're smart guys, at least in getting the lug nuts off.
Once again the little tool I made out of a harbor freight tool for compressing a car disc brake shown through. For some reason we had to modify the little bit to work on the second caliper, but still it did the job. It's always a satisfying feeling when you accomplish something like that, even if it's something little like bending a little piece of metal.
Recommendations for anyone wanting to try this. First of all, make sure you get your part numbers correct.
Second, make sure you have the tool to take off the preload and jam nut in the axle.
Third, make sure you have the tool that compresses the piston in order to get the snap ring out.
Fourth is a special tool for installing the dust boot around the piston. We used a piece of wood in a small hammer that worked.
Four, make sure you have the correct, grease. And lots of cans of brake cleaner, rags and things to clean. All the grease off. Doesn't look like anybody ever wiped the spill off over the years so there was years of caked on Grease on both the slack adapter and the end of the cam.
Other than that give yourself plenty of time. It will take a lot longer, As it usually does.
Fifth call a friend. There will be times when you'll be scratching. Your head and another person's input will be welcome.
Some lessons learned was don't lose the bead on the tire like we did. To say it was difficult was an understatement. But in the end it was actually really easy. We tried straps around the tire and holding it in place, etc. What finally fixed it was. I lifted the jack another quarter inch to a half inch and even though we thought the tire was completely off the ground, it was still hitting something. Once it was completely free of the ground, my forehead on the top of the tire in my hands on the bottom and it sealed. Actually called my progressive roadside assistance to see if they come help out on that one cuz we're getting pretty frustrated. They never really got back to me with the ETA after 20 minutes so I decided to do it again myself in. Voila! It worked.
Have plenty of water on hand. I think I've lost 5 or 10 lb. Just some water weight.
Make sure you have the right Jack, mine is 20 tons as well as jack stands that will hold 20 to 25 tons. And of course don't work under the vehicle with just a jack.
Maybe David could chime in and fill in things that I can't really remember... But that seems to be about the gist of it right now.
WE put the 600lb. torque wrench on the lug nuts,nothing but a click,had to use 2 long pipes and a breaker bar.
Curious on why the tire got deflated? Looks like your working thru it. 👍👍
He has the Crossfire system sharing air on the rear tires,did'nt know it would deflate,you have to take the lug nuts off and then
disconnect the crossfire,the outer tire has to partially come off to get to the inner tire to remove the braided hose,then you don't lose air.
Thought that was one of the safety features that you could disconnect one tire and not have the other one go flat. Good to know
If you have a come-along you can wrap it around the middle of the tire and when tightening it
will help the bead seal.
We did that.
Actually laughing out loud. On the last of five tires. It's the spare I probably will never use and will have to block and tackle to mount back on tire mount. Actually think they may be the worst tires I've ever tried to mount. I feel your pain. And no A come along Doesn't seem to help spread them I tried several times. Got a project for today but got to be done. 40 inch race tires needing to spread bead 4 inches to seal. Another couple inches to set bead
Beads blaster is the way to go when you can't get the tire bead to seat. We used these in all of my truck shops and considered it a must have tool. Several brands but this an example.
Ironton 5-Gallon Tire Bead Seater — 90 to 120 PSI | Northern Tool (https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200673910_200673910)
Fire has always worked for me but must be done correctly and carefully
So when I mounted the first four had my low boy trailer and adjusted to hold rim against inside tire and shot with 3gallom blaster. Had to get the tire angle just right to allow heavy sidewall to flex out while applying external air to stem. I think I averaged about one in six attempts if the stars aligned. Have to move trailer out to reattempt. Tired getting whooped on by big tires today from a couple days ago.
All my either is bang proof. Need to go get some hairspray
What works better than the come-along is a bandit machine but none of us would have one
at home. I've heard of a bead blaster but never have seen one.
So one used to be able to use a shot of ether inside the tire, ignite it and it would for a moment expand enough to add air and inflate. Also used to use aqua net extra strength hair spray. All my new Ether and the new aqua net does not go pop. It just burns. Safer world we live in. Neighbor came over and balanced tire and rim and we were able to use the air can (bead blaster) and get it to expand enough to inflate. Tire is done
Yes I watched videos on that fire method and thought no. Thanks. Not for me. Really. I just got lucky but I'll take luck.
Got the caliper on the lower bosses and as I went to push it up the pads were hitting the rotor by just a little. We got it aligned and it went in halfway and then stopped. Course. You cannot compress the piston because it's attached to the cam and the nut and those things are incompressible except for maybe javelin missile. Not sure exactly what was going on but since the break components that meritor sent me some things were out of whack. Why not the brake shoes too? For one thing, I had to take a few thousands of an inch off the end of the Outer brake pad, cuz it wouldn't fit in the slot. For those that you have not changed brake pads on these beasts, the pads fit in a slot on the caliper and then you push them either inboard or outboard. There's an anti-rattle spring that fits inside the caliper. So the actual pad was a little too long to fit past even with the spring compressed, but the springs were a little too short and they wanted to keep trying to go on the outside of the caliper. The trick is is you fitted in the slot, you push down on one side and you slide it either inboard or outboard. The pads are different thicknesses depending on your coach and rotor. They came from the exact same box as the other pads which fit on the new rotor just fine. But on the old rotor they would not go in easily. I did not want to take the caliper apart again because I'm pretty sure that I built it properly, so at that point I decided to hammer it on. We sprayed a little WD-40 on the brake pads and used a large hammer on the back side of the caliper to get it in place. Where I then put the new pin in with the helper spring. Then I put the slack adjuster on which was also difficult because it didn't want to line up properly with the can with the new brake shoes. But I got that eventually after hitting my head multiple times on the shock absorber mount and the transmission... Next I got the lower pin in no problem. I used corrosion x as a lubricant and of course new slide pins and hardware. So it's all on. Tomorrow. I'll put the tires back on fill the axle back up. And finish lubricating the slack adjuster. I'm also going to lube the drive shaft while I'm at it and anything else. It looks like it has a grease zerk on it.
And after that I'm just going to back it up and forward and back it up and forward until some of that material comes off the brake pads. Really don't have any other idea what to do on it. I do have extra pads for the front and but I don't think it would be easy to get that caliper off again without damaging the pads that I have on there. Luckily hammering it on did not damage the pads.
So originally they quoted me $8,000 to do this work but that was to replace the driver side caliper with a new rotor on the passenger side and new brake pads. I'm not sure what they would have charged me to rebuild both calipers and do what we just did but I suspect maybe more than 8,000? I don't know. What I do know is if my wheel doesn't fall off when I'm driving down the road and the coach continues to stop when I tell it to then it'll all be worth it.
No pictures today My phone was in Coach as it was raining.... And I think I cracked my screen or my screensaver haven't looked yet to be sure on my pixel 6 pro getting underneath there and having it in my pocket. So no pictures.
Are you sure you didnt get the pads backwards.. and what did you put wd40 on?
Pads are the same number as the old ones and only go in one way.
Can you turn that wheel by hand? If you can't then that rotor and pads are going to get very hot. You should not have to pound that back together. I hate to see you burn up that rotor and also damage the caliper. I would definitely take that caliper back off find out why the piston will not retract enough to let it slip on the rotor. I think as it is it will get very costly to try and drive it to loosen up the pads against the rotor.
) I replaced the pads on mine a couple of years ago, I had to file 2 of the pads to get them to slide in the caliper. Only slightly to remove punch burrs. But you shouldn't need a hammer to get things back together.
We are using the Meritor ADB maintenance manual 4M,looking for a way to retrack the caliper to it's widest point so it fits over the
rotor.
That would be the purging of the excess grease from the slack adjuster section of the manual.
Cant you remove the zert fitting then back it off with a C clamp? ... When I worked on mine I think the pads were very tight but fit. It was last year and had help so I watched a little more than helped
Tried that,no good.
Did you adjust the 5/16 square. Drive to the full loose position with the adjuster ratchet release clip installed? I actually purchased a eight point socket just for future work. Makes it much easier
Scott
Remove the sla ck adjuster set screw completely. back the slack screw until the lever moves at least an inch. Try retracting the caliper . You may find that some vacuum wil aid its' retraction.
Just tried that,the slack adjuster did move about an inch,going to pull the caliper off and check the operation of it and go over the
rebuild job.
Pretty sure we found the problem,will let Bob explain.
So I will take full responsibility for this snafu although part of the problem was meritor. Poor quality control out of the factory means that the camshaft was out of spec. The camshaft drives a nut that's as big as my hand. Almost That pushes the piston into the brake pad to stop the coach. On the camshaft there is a thrust ring. I guess it's just there to keep it in place and to keep it from wobbling maybe... Anyway, since the new camshaft couldn't be used, I reused the old camshaft. These are left and right hand threaded so you cannot interchange the right side caliper with the left side caliper. So I had to use the old left-sided camshaft with the new nut and the new thrust ring... Yeah on top of the old thrust ring which was covered in Grease and I didn't see it. Taking the caliper off today was actually pretty easy with a small two ton bottle. Jack. I have another set of brake pads for the front so I could use them but the other ones look okay too. Just a matter of putting the caliper back on in the morning after putting the brake pads back in.
One or two millimeters is all it took to not go over the rotor properly which was a good thing.
I really just wanted to put the thing back together and drive it and see how things went. But enough people thought that was a bad idea including David and myself after. I really thought about it with a good night. Sleep to pull caliper again. So lesson learned. If something doesn't look right it isn't.
Scott, when you lift up the Pawl to adjust a slack adjuster, All it does is move the slack adjuster back and forth but doesn't do anything on the cam shaft. If you try to move it without lifting the paw it says it can damage it. That was the first thing we tried this morning.
Last picture was of me being frustrated and we're out with trying to figure out what the heck was going on... Plus I banged my head more than a few times on hard knobbly things...
So if loose you can rotate the square drive, but you cant back it up without releasing paw. Manual covered it well enough for me to follow last time. Glad you sorted it out. Dont forget to remove what ever you put under the head to release it. Wont automatically advance anymore. Bob it's s always fun learning new stuff or figuring out what they intended.👍👍 dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to earn a living doing brakes but still has to be done.
Scott
Yeah you're right. There. Actually feel really good about the work David and I did. I've got some cuts that are going to take a little bit to heal on my right hand, but I think I probably lost 10 lb in water weight too. But the experience was worth it. Never could have done it myself though. I couldn't even have gotten the lug nuts off myself. They're were on to tight... And the thought of getting out from under the coach to find something that I forgot to bring with me would have been miserable as well. It's always better to have a partner that can hand you tools and things when you're stuck underneath that beast. And David did plenty of his share of getting up underneath the coach, although I did more of sweating than he did...
David and I finished up. The wheels are all on and torqued, even the decorative hubs and decorative lugs are on. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to fire this baby up because with all the rain the driveway still kind of wet and I don't want to cause any damage to David's driveway. And then we'll back it up and brake and see if the slack adjusters automatically adjust.
For those of you that are interested, I'm going to attach some photos of the camshaft and nut and the housing that it fits in. The last photo is of the thrust washer.
Hopefully none of you will have to do this but if you do this thread should help.
You don't have to move the coach to check the automatic adjusters. That was the old drum brake method. With discs just apply and release, the pads don't move back and forth.
The square socket is 5/16 eight point socket.
Soap and water followed by Neosporin and an adhesive strip for the first night.
What you and probably the book call a cam, I'd call a lead screw and nut. What grease does that stuff get?
I'd probably call it a Saginaw shaft. The grease is the clay based called for by Meritor.
Bob will pull out in a couple of days,who's next?
How often does Meritor want you to purge that grease for fresh?
NOTE: Lubricate brake-actuating components inside the caliper
two to four times during the life of the lining, or every six months.
Much less involved than the drum-wedge brakes.
I wouldn't know what to do if my brakes didn't fade on a hard stop.
Between the all wheel disc brakes and the retarder I am always impressed how well a 17ton vehicle will stop. Foretravel didn't skimp in later years in regards to brake size and capacity. Sorry your coach doesn't share this
Scott
Same opinion as Scott. The hotter they get the better they stop.
When we leave on a trip, I have to go down our driveway in neutral as first gear will push it way too fast. Once the brakes are warm, I can lock up all six with max pedal pressure.
Pierce
Strangely enough, the drum brakes on the U225 need a little heat to do their best. Modern brake lining material is wonderful. I'm not interested in exploring brake fade in my 11 ton truck. On the other hand, while Lynn was over in Savannah I went to visit every other day and managed a couple of "full effort" stops from 80 MPH in the Studebaker*, and I wouldn't want to do that twice in a row.
I whole heartedly agree modern disk brakes are great but I fear they give a false sense of security for those who have no appreciation for the physics at work in stopping a moving body. A little brake fade is a heads up that there are limits. Just as rising transmission oil temperatures indicates the limits of a hydraulic retarder.
Art
*Highway construction ultimately determined that cruising at 60 MPH on secondary roads was the path of choice.
Our jeep came with ceramic brake pads--does anyone know if they are being used on bug trucks and or motorhomes
They seem to work very well on the jeep and when I checked pads at 55k there was still over half the pad left.
Chris
Don't know the answer but, I have over 130k and the factory linings aren't 25% worn yet. At this rate they will go over 500K long after I could use the coach.
Actually I left today around noon. I'm now in Hoover. Alabama. Had a sports complex that has a RV park next to it for 40 bucks a night minus vet 10% discount. The brakes were a little grabby at first but they seem to settle down just fine. No issues with the brakes.
On the other hand, I now have a crack in my windshield right where it bends around on the driver's side. Side. Wasn't there this morning. Nothing hit my windshield that I know of. It was pretty hot and then all of a sudden it started raining and I put the windshield wipers on for a little bit and when I looked up again I could see the crack. Luckily I have zero deductible on windshield glass. I'll give them a call in a couple days. I arrived tomorrow outside fort Benning, Georgia but I'll be in Alabama across the border. I plan on being there for 1 to 2 months so plenty of time to get the windshield fixed. I guess that could qualify for a new thread... But it does say new tires and other surprises. So I guess I could just add that to the list of other surprises.
Couple thoughts on the brake jobs that David and I did. Some people at the beginning said just put new pads on it and don't worry about it. That would not have worked for me and I think that's a terrible idea. Course you do you but I would not do that. The other thing is is that while I probably could have gotten away with just changing the pins and pads and the new rotor, I didn't know it at the time and I couldn't know it until I pulled everything apart and I wasn't willing to stick around and wait a week to get the parts delivered. So I went with the full Monty and I'm not unhappy with that. They quoted $8,500 if they could get a caliper for the driver's side. That was for new pads, a new rotor and the new caliber. What I got instead for $2,500 in parts roughly was rebuild calipers on the rear, a new rotor on the rear, new brake pads on both sides, new slide pins, etc. Etc. I also have new brake pads for the front when I get around to doing that, although I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to replace the slide pins too. This coach has been in Mexico multiple times from multiple owners so maybe that's the reason? But there was some these pitting in the stainless steel pins. So much so that I would not have been comfortable just cleaning them and putting them back on. I think a lot of the corrosion comes from the spring that holds the pins in place. It's actually a bolt with a half moon shape cut out and the pins slide past that. That bolt has a pin and a washer. I found a fair amount of rust in that area and if I had been keeping up with the maintenance on the pins and the brakes then probably it wouldn't have been an issue. But I confess that I really ignored that part of the coach. Not again though... At least every 6 months. I think I will get in there and spray it with corrosion x for the pins as well as add a little bit more than meritor grease.
Anyway, I'm very grateful for David aka John 44, his wife, his son, his son's wife and especially the granddaughter who made me feel very much at home. Chief and I really enjoyed our stay there and I wish I could have stayed longer but no place to dump tanks. And I have things to do anyway.
Anybody have any specific questions about it, PM me.
I think this closes the thread pretty much.
Bob
FYI,the slide hammer from Harbor Freight screws directly into a slide pin,works good.
You and John44 must have put in many hours. That $6,000 "savings" works out to what hourly rate for the two of you? More? Or less than a case of beer?
Art
FWIW I book my time at $25/hour at the speed I get things done to help decide if I do the work or the garage gets it.