We got a new to us 94 U300 last fall. We have taken it out on a few trips successfully. On our most recent trip about 100 miles in the engine shut off on the freeway, it started again after pulling over but didn't have any oil pressure and the do not shift light was blinking on the transmission controls. The engine would turn itself off after briefly running. There is oil all over the engine and back of coach. We had it towed to a mechanic who just called and said because of all the auxiliary systems they can't figure out what the problem is. Does anyone know of a mechanic who will work on our coach in the Tri-Cities Washington area?
Any suggestion as to what the problem might be to help guide the mechanic?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Also, is it possible sell a non-functional RV?
First off it would help us if we knew what kind of a engine it is. How much oil on the
dipstick. The only way I know how to find a leak is too clean up the engine and run the
engine to see where the oil is coming from. Don't restart engine till oil level is up on dipstick
Check to see if the oil is black or red. If black add engine oil and start to see what is leaking. Same with the trans if the fluid is red. I don't think the hyd. oil would shut off the engine. As far as selling a coach without making it drivable not an economically good idea.
Also a leak could be an easy fix. Had one last winter, had a hole in the oil filter.
A new filter 4 gallons of oil and I was good to go.
to soon to tell if it needs to be sold without proper diagnosis.. I would see what the oil level is now and if low add some to get it full. Block the wheels and start it and look around. If you have an oil cooler I would check the hoses and if not I would look around and see if a gasket had popped... Did it get hot at all? If no pressure could mean it has no way of building pressure as its getting out somewhere.
Engine is a DD6V92TA. I am no longer near the coach to physically check things, but what I'm hearing so far is basic troubleshooting to find a leak is what's needed.
Engine was not hot during the shutdown. Everything seemed to be running perfectly until it wasn't.
I'm over in Walla Walla. Sent you a PM. Give me a shout and we will help as we can. Like a place to stay while you start the process of repair so you can be near(ish)
That engine will shut down from low oil pressure. Do not run it until you find the problem. Just a suggestion if you cannot find a Detroit Diesel facility that works on truck engine you could possibly find a Marine Diesel Mechanic. That engine was used extensively in large yachts, and is still in use today. Detroit Diesel Dealer, Repair & Service Provider | W.W. Williams (https://www.wwwilliams.com/detroit-diesel/)
The mechanic who can't figure out where the oil is leaking from is not the guy you want.
Mobile Mechanic Services (Experienced) (Kennewick, Pasco, Richland and surrounding areas)
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Check your hydraulic lines to the fans/hyd motor. Our were touching each other and got a huge leak.
Pierce
Maybe a bad oil filter. I would strongly suggest that you be with your coach and have a look at it and as has been suggested check the oil dipstick to see if it is low. Probably will be not showing anything on it. You will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it like it is.
"Everything seemed to be running perfectly until it wasn't." Describes a normal day in my life.
Best thing to do when something like this happens, is to make a pot of coffee, set up a chair in front of the coach, and enjoy your coffee while watching the traffic go by. I mean it. Sudden engine failure, whether you recognize it or not is a great trigger for a brain freeze and you need time to process before you do anything. But that's all in the past now.
Your current mechanic didn't wash the engine? Run.
As others have said, you can't do anything until the oil pan is full. If it refuses to fill you probably lost the oil drain plug.
From the way you described the oil spray, if you're lucky, it's an oil hose. Others can tell you better than I, but is the oil return line from your turbo a hose?
As much as I eschew automation, that computer saved your engine for you.
Start with the obvious, simple, stuff first.
An easy check is the engine oil level. If it's full, the problem is elsewhere. Broken hydraulic line should not cause the DDEC to go into shutdown for at least a couple of minutes until the water temperature goes up. I could be coolant you are seeing and once the level goes down below the sensor in the black tank, the engine will shut down. Transmission hose may have let go. With a little poking around, you should be able to see where it's coming from. Is the oil very black or lighter color. Not green is it?
Steel pan on the Detroit and unless it plug was not tightened, it won't come loose. Very hard to over torque. The engine maxes at about 60 psi oil pressure so should not have blown out the filter gasket.
Have you had any work done on the engine/trans lately? Oil change.
Pierce
The fluid was black. Have driven a few hundred miles since we had the oil changed and filters replaced. I will say the engine has been a pretty steady 80psi while driving.
You haven't said where the oil is on the dipstick. When there is an oil pressure issue that is
the first thing to check.
The OP may not be speaking precisely, so let's take it on faith that he checked the oil, found it to be black in color and at the full mark. My first move would be to drain the oil, watching how it comes out, and then pull the oil pan for cleaning. While the oil pan is off I'd inspect the oil pick up tube and screen. Pierce can tell us where the oil pump is located.
BUT. The back of the coach is soaked in oil, so from whence it came? A professional mechanic would pressure wash the engine, disconnect the fuel shut off and crank the engine to "build oil pressure" then look to see where the drip is and follow it back to the source.
Sounds like your changing the oil anyway, pull filters to inspect for a split filter. Cut open filters to inspect contents. Look for big holes in pan and refill. Search for failed oil line
Scott
I've never heard of a Detroit with a failed oil pump. These engines are bullet proof. To look at the location of the pump behind the front cover, go to the great Wanderlodge site and download all the descriptions, diagrams, etc. at: https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/DETROIT%2092%20SERIES%20ENGINE%20SERVICE%20MANUAL/Sect%204%20-%20Lubrication%20System.pdf
The biggest reason the pump didn't fail is there is oil on the outside of the engine and no one has said if the crankcase is low or even what kind of oil or coolant it may be. So, just wild guesses until the owner enlightens us. How many times has this happened before?
I mean that if your engine would not start, you had oil on ground and in the engine compartment, wouldn't you take a good look to see where it was coming from, check the dipstick as the first thing on the list? Is it even engine oil?
Pierce
I am not near the coach any longer. I did not check the dipstick following the issue ( I now know to do this), and I was assuming I would be able to have a mechanic handle all this. I was scrambling to get the coach towed off the road and family a safe place to sleep.
When I was trying to find a place to get the coach towed the Detroit Diesel shop in the area declined to perform service because their cutoff model year date was 1995 and mine is a 94. Have any of you heard of this before?
Thank you all for the feedback and advice, it has been invaluable as I try to formulate a plan to move forward. I've been a bit thrown by the fact that the shop that said they could work on it is unable to. As I'm sure you towing a coach is not a cheap endeavor so I want to be completely certain before I make a next move.
My current thought is to have a mobile mechanic come take a look and if that fails to bring the coach back to life have it towed to a shop in my home area at great expense as I am unable to find a shop that will work on it in the area it broke down.
A general mobile mechanic is a good choice. He does not have to be an expert to see where the oil is coming from. Nice if he has big rig experience.
Pierce
It sounds like you may have been leaking oil for those few 100 miles. Hopefully it's as simple as one of the old filter's O-rings didn't come off and a new filter was installed over it. That could explain your problem.
Once you get the mechanic out to your coach, raise the dash top and put something in place to keep it open. If you look at the back wall inside the dash top, you will find two switches. One will be for the engine and one for the transmission. With the key on, push the engine switch to the on position and count the sequence of flashes the little bulb (you will see it when it flashes) and compare it to the chart here. Table 2-16. DDEC II System Fault Index (https://constructiontractors.tpub.com/TM-9-2320-364-20-1/0726280212.htm) or Detroit Diesel Engines Fault Codes List online | Truckmanualshub.com (https://truckmanualshub.com/detriot-desiel-engines-fault-codes-list/) If the low oil pressure code comes up, you know you have a leak and the DDEC saved you $30,000.
If you have not had the dash top up before, it may take some effort so good to have someone on both sides. It won't break, just lift.
Pierce
I put a call into the truck shop I use as per their willingness to work on the V6. should that be needed (hopefully not) I'll post up their reply.
Just a suggestion for the future. Call Coach-net and spend the $200 on a towing policy.
If the DDEC shut the engine down, a warning light came on but because of the poor design, the steering wheel rim is right in the way of the row of lights including the warning light. I'm 5' 10" and never have been able to adjust the steering wheel to where I'm happy with it. Both times the hydraulic belt failed right after we bought it and on our way home across the U.S. I didn't see it and the first warning was the DDEC going into half power for 30 seconds before it shut completely down.
Pierce
"driven a few hundred miles since we had the oil changed and filters replaced"
Did you happen to look to see if the oil filter was still there? I have seen numerous times where people have lost their oil filters on the highway not long after oil changes.
Whatever you do, follow up and don't let this incident sour you on the coach. It may be something minor and just a bump in the road.
Agree with Pierce on reply 18,this may be an easy fix.
I will call! I have AAA and Progressive but both only cover a small fraction of the towing expense.
how far do you need to tow it?
That depends on where I can find a mechanic.
With all the timber industry in that area you should be able to find a road man that is familiar with a 6V92.
Mike
Here is what the mechanic said:
Oil leak coming from unknown component. Seems to be oil pump or possible driving force for alternator. Leak is coming from seal connecting to intake manifold.
Link to picture (https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ey3xJcY9NbA2jngQ9)
Can anyone identify the unknown component?
What is the difficulty level of the fix?
What should I reasonably expect to pay for a fix? and does it need to go to a shop or can a mobile mechanic fix?
The current shop said they could fix it but don't want to because it will take months.
Thanks!
Someone with your engine will soon answer,but if the "shop" can actually fix your problem but somehow will take "months" I would
run like hell and find another place.
Youtube Fixing Oil Leaks on Our 6v92 Engine in our MCI MC9 Bus RV Conversion
https://youtu.be/9VRQAliT2Dk
1) You're talking to the wrong guy. DD 6V engines are not rare or exotic, the guy you want can tell you what he's seeing.
2) Pierce?
3) Ewwww. That's difficult. Unskilled labor can do much damage if heavy handed. Or a patient guy with a parts manual will get the job done eventually.
4) Skip.
5) The current shop knows nothing about Detroit Diesels and doesn't want to learn working in the back of an RV.
Sam's Marine forum has a thread on 6V92 oil leaks...
Chasing DD 6v92 oil leak (https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?27200-Chasing-DD-6v92-oil-leak)
Not sure on Detroit's but it looks like a power steering pump. See what Bigdog comes up with for a reputable shop, and there's also JD Truck repair in Pasco, near the river.
Presuming the 6v92 shut down because of low oil, I'd add oil and drive it if I could.
Didn't get a call back from the shop. It's just a few miles away, So I'll go over in the AM and ask and show them that photo.
Shop labor at mountain-hi is $135.
Appears to be a leak from the tube that feeds your blower.
Ours cracked, leaked quite a bit (dinner plate size when we'd park).
Completely broken or gone maybe?
Oil Lub System Link; https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/DETROIT%2092%20SERIES%20ENGINE%20SERVICE%20MANUAL/Sect%204%20-%20Lubrication%20System.pdf
Looking down at the photo, this is the back (toward the front of the coach) of the engine with the alternator with it's two V belts top right easily seen. A little below that is the power steering pump, internally driven and below that and a little to the right is the air compressor with the fins, also internally driven. Also visible is the little cap on the air governor where the air pressure for the brakes may be adjusted. There is a small very short hose that can leak. Ours did but not a huge amount and not enough to lose a lot of oil. That area should be cleaned and then checked for a leak. Ours does not use any oil to speak of and only burned 2.5 quarts in a coast to coast and back trip but some do. You do have to check the dip stick frequently as well as the other tanks and air cleaner gauge. Since the owner has only now learned about checking the oil, it may have gotten low enough that the DDEC started the shut down procedure. If a gallon or so of oil can be added and the engine starts, it then should be checked for leaks and if none are serious, it may be driven home with the dip stick/oil level frequently checked. To the owner, your Detroit needs a special low ash oil, best with Delo 100 #40 (not 400) or Shell Rotella #40. The capacity is 5.5 U.S. gallons with filter. Using any other and especially a multi grade is asking for engine damage, with stuck rings high oil consumption and poor starting the result. When checking ANY diesel's oil level, the dip stick should be smelled for signs that diesel is getting into the crankcase from a fuel pump or injector leak. This dilutes the oil and will also cause premature wear. Unless an owner has a unlimited credit card or does not care, it's very important to know where all the critical fluid levels are located so they can be checked and also the belt condition. Spare belts, filters, especially fuel, oil, coolant should be carried.. Foretravels have been parked in a garage where the coolant level went below the sensor and the coach would not start. Since the coaches engine compartment was against the back of the garage, coolant could not be easily added. As I remember a very helpful member traveled to the coach and helped get it started.
If I remember in the morning, I will take a photo of the potential leak spot and post it.
Pierce
Perhaps a faulty oil filter. I would strongly advise you to go over it with your coach and, as previously suggested, check the oil dipstick to see if it is low. It will most likely not display anything. If you try to sell it as is, you'll get pennies on the dollar.
I would do what Dakota Slim said. Once the oil is full and if oil isn't pouring out it can
be driven. Looking at the picture I can't see a big oil leak there is looks to me like there
is a tiny oil leak and it took along awhile to accumulate. Talk to my friend who has rebuilt
lots of Detroit's and he said to make sure the crankcase breather tube is clear as if they
get plugged the pressure in the crankcase will blow all the oil out.
My shop said they have no issue with working on a DDtwo stroke. But as they are the main shop that the local farmers and wineries use for their equipment. They are always 2-3 weeks out.
My shop said to give North West equipment a call. They just opened a new shop just outside of Pasco in Burbank, Wa.
North West Equipment Sales (https://www.nwesales.com/default.htm)
(509) 302-2600
Thank you for taking the time to reach out to your shop!
NW Equipment was actually my first call while on the side of the road and they said they couldn't service the coach. I think I'm going to have it towed to Fat Boys fleet services.
Best of luck and let's all pray it's something easy and cheap to fix. Be sure and update us when the fault is found.
I think you may find the leak is at that pump or to do with the Blower for your motor which is the big squarish looking intake behind that pump. Blowers do need new seals from time to time. What is the mileage on your engine? As previously mentioned only straight weight 40 grade motor oil. Less than 1% ash content. Rotella 40 or Delo 100 40 but not Delo 400 40 don't mix them up. Also since it was ran so low on oil and if the mileage is up around 100,000 I would be tempted to have them pull the oil pan off and inspect the rod and main bearings just for peace of mind. You can thank that DDEC computer on a mechanical 6V you would probably have a large paper weight by now. I would inspect all oil lines for integrity and strength. You need a good two stroke guy.
Update: The supercharger has to be taken off to find the leak. I'm told 10-20 hours of work and the leak is significant.
Seems like 10 minutes would find the leak on our Detroit or any other engine. I mean, how many places can a leak be coming from? Cheap gasket on the back of the PS pump or hoses, air compressor gaskets, etc, etc? Sounds as if your shop has found a golden goose aka the danger of owning an RV and taking it to a repair facility. $30,000 can disappear in a hurry as "they can't guarantee the repair without replacing the reflex valve, optimizer, rotary valves, etc"
If the leak is significant, where is it coming from? What does significant mean???
Pierce
From Hatteras Owners Forum & Gallery
Re: Chasing DD 6v92 oil leak
This is usually what I do any time I'm chasing down an oil leak. I expose the area that seems to be the suspect area. Then clean it up real well with carb or brake cleaner. Keep the area well ventilated. This stuff works great. Cleans EVERYTHING. Once everything is clean, I'll tighten every bolt in sight start her up and go from there.
Chasing DD 6v92 oil leak - Page 2 (https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?27200-Chasing-DD-6v92-oil-leak/page2)
Like Dakota Slim says above, it's not that hard to tell where the oil is coming from. OK, did you stick the oil lever after the engine shut down and what was the level? If down, did you add oil and try to start it? What happened, did it start? Did you look under the dash top to read the codes as was suggested? If so, what codes were shown? There are a lot of experienced coach owners on this forum and can help you diagnose and solve most any problem but we need you to follow through with some of the basics suggested to be able to help. Otherwise, we are just helpless bystanders and can only watch with regret as the shop costs add up. We WANT you to avoid any needless shop costs if at all possible. It's as frustrating for us as for you. Please provide as many details as you can.
Pierce
Hopefully scrouch can get his coach back on the road. It's not a pleasant experience to break down anywhere, let alone on a highway miles from home. Those of us who have followed this want to see a successful solution. In the future, others can learn from this dilemma
Agree with Pierce again,Scrouch seems to be answering most of the questions and giving us updates,Pierce is right,it's frustrating
for us too,too many times Iv'e asked questions so I can help and the question is never answered or after the first post you never
hear again.
Supercharger? You mean turbo?
Finding the leak can be easy or hard. After ensuring the engine has oil, get some brake cleaner and blue shop towels and start cleaning. Oh and some tooth brushes. You may possibly need degreaser if it's caked on. Scrub it clean, then start the engine and see where it comes from. More than likely, it is a gasket or seal or a hole in a hose. Gaskets/seals are normally pretty inexpensive. Some hoses cane be pricey, think hydraulic hoses for example.
There's a lot of knowledge on here as stated, and are here to help. Heck, perhaps someone who knows this engine would even FaceTime you and help you some.
Keep us posted
The 2-stroke Detroit diesels can have both but must have a roots type blower for charge air. Whereas a 4-stoke engine goes suck squeeze boom blow, the two stroke goes boom blow, boom blow.
This type of 2 cycle has to have positive pressure on the cylinders to fire, unlike a motorcycle or chainsaw two cycle. The term supercharger is actually correct in that is provides positive pressure as used in MW Dictionary: :
over and above : higher in quantity, quality, or degree than : more than. So, instead of using a specially designed exhaust system to maximize power in a narrow band at high RPM, it allows engines to produce lots of torque at low RPM. This is much like the famous Deuce, GM's railroad 2-71 generator producing electricity at 1200 RPM. This is also why big ships usually have 2 cycle engines as they produce a lot of power at low RPM and are the only diesels to even come closes to 50% efficiency (51%). The extra 10% or so advantage over a 4 cycle is gained by eliminating the roots style blower and replacing it with electric forced induction much like the later EMD diesels on the railroad locomotives with turbos spooled up electrically to start. A turbocharger supplies the "free" additional air once the diesel is producing power.
But the term "blower" is the most common term used for the Roots form of pressure induction with supercharge left to the drag strip where the supercharger/blower is turned at high rpm (for a Roots blower) to produce lots of pressure and horsepower.
So, our Detroit 6V-92TA has both a blower and a turbocharger with the intercooler/CAC now sandwiched under the Roots blower to cool the incoming air. Since it is after the blower and turbocharger, it is now called an "aftercooler." Detroits may be ordered with the conventional intercooler or the aftercooler type. The aftercooler is liquid cooled and more efficient but costs more. It also means that there are no exterior plumbing or air radiator devices and since the Detroit 2 cycle has no injection pump but rater unit injectors, there is not much on the outside of the engine which gives it the clean appearance. In bus duty, all the drive belts are also eliminated with accessories driven off gears inside the engine. Turbochargers are also available in liquid cooled versions but not normally found in OTR diesels.
The turbo and the blower can be pulled off the Detroit in less than an hour, not the 10-20 hours quoted.
Pierce
Stewart and Stevenson works on Detroit's. If one near you give them a call.
Update: They think they have found the link and a blower installation gasket kit has been ordered to (hopefully) fix it.