Cruise started working intermittently the last couple trips and now not working it all. Replaced the speed sensor and still not working.
Video link below for more info
Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2Fagvh846vmVqGJ_qI0UA)
On my coach
1-with the cruise control "off" you can adjust your engine idle speed with the resume and set buttons.
2-with the cruise control "on" your high idle will engage when you hit the resume button
Ok, seems like what mine was doing...except the high idle with cruise on isn't working which makes sense since it's not working while driving either.
Did you do a search?
Others have mentioned cleaning contacts on steering wheel.
Retarder is off/all the way forward?
Yes, I did a search but so far nothing that helps me out.
Cleaning the contacts is my next task, though I feel like that's not the issue since the smart wheel box clicks when I push all the buttons on the steering wheel.
....and yes sir, retarder off.
So on the 2001 you have a smart steering wheel controller with no contacts or brushes. They use two springs for conductors and if your horn and wipers work they are fine, its a multiplex system. Later models used four springs and the second two were for background lighting. I do know on my 2001 coach that it works much better with the economy mode selected on the transmission control panel
Scott
On, set, resume will make it idle high, I use this a lot right after starting so air pressure can build. Off takes it back to normal. Does it do this?
Any codes being thrown?
Contacts, good idea to clean as others have said. You could also replace the relay, those are cheap and good for a spare, if it works. Hopefully someone will weigh in on the clicking.
The speed sensor that was replaced, is it a reputable brand? Did you bench test the resistance? How was the wiring? Did it have any areas that look sus?
I read that on another post about economy mode but doesn't work in either mode. My wipers work fine so far. So you're saying that on our coach there's no contacts to clean on the steering wheel?
Make sure your brake lights are not coming on with the clicking. Also move the retarder stick back and forth and back to off. The actual cruise control will not work with you parked there is a minimum speed that has to be reached.
Nope, speed sensor was a $28 dollar Amazon special, but I was in a hurry to get it so that's why I didn't try to track down OEM. I didn't seem to have any extra issues when I installed it though, everything is fine except the cruise. The connector and wire to the sensor were in good shape.
I'm assuming the relay is in the compartment in front of the passenger seat, or are they near the black smart steering wheel box I showed in the video?
Forgot to answer these...
I checked for any tranny codes and there are none...and no, when trying to use cruise for high idle it doesn't work. It does idle up and down some if I just press resume and set with cruise off...I showed this in the video.
Yes, but the high idle should work while parked and it doesn't. So if the brake lights are coming on does it think the retarder is engaged? I'll have to check if the brake lights are coming on when pushing the cruise buttons.
So your saying that maybe the connections on the retarder are a possible cause? If that were the case wouldn't the retarder also not work intermittently? (Referring to moving the retarder stick back and forth)
If the cruise thinks the retarder is on is doesn't engage. The retarder would still function as normal. Brake lights on also override the cruise. The back and forth was just to make sure the switch is off on the retarder.
Yes there is a breaker hid in there you will be looking for.
I don't recall the exact breaker number this A/M. I do know it doesn't share a breaker with anything else that could be shorting out. It is rare to have one of those self rest breakers to fail but they do sometimes. I just got the video to load and it seems like you are dealing with 3 things. (the cruse not engaging,, the high idle, and the clicking) Now for the 10k questions to get more info to see if we can help get this figured out.
On the high idle you said at 600 "it kills" what does it kill? The engine or what? Or does it just stop dropping the RPM? If I understand what you said you can move the idle between 600 to 800RPM. Is that correct?
The cruse not working and the clicking could be a short somewhere. If you find the breaker tripping and resetting then you need to find the short. If this is the case pull the control module and turn it over to see if you have one that has the PC board exposed. Check it out to see if you can see anything that appears to have let the smoke out. If this looks good then the hunt gets a lot harder.
Mike
Yes, it just stops lowering at 600 rpm and tops out at 800. Mind you this is with the cruise off.
Refer to post #1 from LT403, it seems there is 2 different modes for cruise idling. One with cruise on and one with cruise off. Cruise off function seems to work, but cruise on doesn't, which makes sense because the cruise doesn't "turn on" while driving either. Curious why there's 2 different idle functions.
I pulled the smart box out and the pc board wasn't exposed but I was able to take the box apart and access the board. It doesn't have any obvious signs of damage. The 3 amp fuse wasn't blown but pretty scuzzy so I replaced it. There was a lot of fuzz and dust in there so I blew it clean and tried again with no luck. I think the clicking is normal because when I operate the the 2 headlight buttons and the wiper buttons it clicks also and they're working fine.
I guess the next task is to find the breaker, need to track down my wiring schematic. I was gonna figure out how to tear down the steering wheel and clean some contacts but DSD mentioned our coach doesn't have contacts...and the fact that when I push the cruise control buttons the box clicks I'm assuming the buttons are working at the steering wheel...but who knows.
Appreciate you and everyone else helping me out on this, i absolutely want cruise working. If I space out for a sec this thing is up to 70-75 in a flash.
I have two idle speeds. I push the cruise on button and the set button will take is up to around
900 RPM or if I push the reset button it revs up to over 1100 RPM. If I want to go from one to the
other I push the brake or the cruise off button then push the other button.
Just to follow up, the brake lights are not coming on when I press the cruise control buttons 👍
I shot another video about what the cruise buttons are doing.
I do want to clarify that when the cruise was working, I was able to utilize the high idle function after turning the cruise ON...but now that the cruise control doesn't work while driving, the high idle function doesn't work either....which makes sense...just need to figure out where to start trouble shooting from this point.
Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2Fagvkak8yS85yu0b5ZKw)
Trying to track down where this Cruise on/off wire heads off too. This schematic (A-6277 1st picture) shows the wires leaving the smart box and dumping into these E28 & E31 boxes...then labeled B14 & B23
2nd picture
Then in drawing (A-5346) which shows a B23 WH heading over to Deutsch 50 Pin connector. (Which I don't know where that is on the coach)
Basically I'm trying to trace where this goes and hopefully find a fuse or breaker...or bad wire.
It's kinda hard reading these, I'm used to big wire...12 or 24 kv lines 😁
What I don't know (it's hard for me to tell in these schematics) is, could it be the retarder or a brake switch that's keeping the cruise from coming on but I'll have to just keep tracking down the wires and testing
If you take it to Cummins they can hook up a computer and it should tell you what the problem is,as the cruise control goes through the icm.
More video, might be a bad smartwheel board but only the one connection for the cruise on/off 🤷.
Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2FagvkmH9GSMtXVeGhyyg)
Anyone have a contact or company who knows how these boards work? Probably don't make them anymore.
Found a trouble shooting guide for the smart wheel board...it's not the board.
Got my wire tracer today and was able to trace that number 8 cruise on/off wire back to the wiring harness into the engine. Couldn't get the plastic cover off to see under there but probably wouldn't do any good anyways.
I'm stuck at this point, unless someone has any suggestions.
So the parking brake engaged would have to enable fast idle function and isolate activate cruise control off. Then swap function to enable cruise with parking brake released. The brake Light disconnect both. Retarder sets brake light with activated retarder. You figure out your fast idle and I think the cruise will participate. Verify power and keep going toward ECM with proper grounds and power. Also the brake switch has two pressure switches probably for DOT redundancy. Either will set lights.
Scott
Thanks sir,
So having a hard time finding the pressure switches, from most post I've seen they are in the generator fan compartment up front drivers side. I've looked all around that area and even under and can't find them. Where are they on yours since we have the same year and model.
Forward of the parking brake valve and a little to the coach left. You'll see them when you look
So far no luck tracking down this problem, was wondering about what physically operates the throttle body. Could this be mechanical and not electrical?
Completely electronic on your coach.
I am pretty sure that you need to have Cummins hook up a computer to it and that will tell you what the problem is.
I called Cummins and he said all they can do is tell me if cruise has been activated or not if I bring it in, but can't trouble shoot any issues... but maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. 🤷♂️
If you haven't had Cummins flash the firmware in the ECU with latest update, I recommend you get it done. A Cummins Coach Care location can do it in a couple hours...takes several cycles if it's never been done. Cost me $150 if I recall. It will change the cruise control prediction curve and a cool feature is that it allows recall of last speed even after shut down and restart. The engine just seemed more responsive after the flash. W.
Still slowly trying to trouble shoot cruise...shot another video showing what's going on in Bluefire app.
I havent taken it to Cummins yet because I keep getting told that the problem is with the OEM side and all Cummins can tell me is if cruise is activated or not in the ECM, which I know it is 🤷
Video:
Microsoft services (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApiXgan5g2FagvtF2JKZ3W4LLxLqdg)
Is your cruise still not functioning?
Curious what the resolution may have been...
Need to check where you have the retard set at. If the retard is on when the coach starts to coast it will shut off the cruise..
Not sure but I think it was the steering wheel contacts...it still acts up once in awhile but not as often as when it first happened. I had cleaned the steering wheel contacts early on but it didn't help, then after many months of trouble shooting cleaned them again and it seemed to help, though that may have been coincidental. The gold disc plates that the contacts touch on the steering wheel seem to be heavily worn so I wonder if that's the culprit....and how hard it would be to replace them if they are available. Have pictures.
I recently posted my challenge in finding parts for my smart wheel.
Smart Wheel Issues (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=47488.0)
Several functions had "died", most related to cruise and after replacing the control module I searched and found a NOS complete wheel on eBay. I was convinced that my problem was related to the button modules but the seller of the NOS wheel also sent the Douglas Autotec HB2P service kit which had the collar, springs, ring and contacts. I replaced everything...the button modules, the collar, spring and contacts and everything now works perfectly.
At the time another seller had the parts you're looking for:
Douglas Autotech Horn Brush Kit DUG HB2 B115x16 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115809376403?itmmeta=01HWRPSPFEZ41FSHVG08KE5BS7&hash=item1af6c6d893:g:eu8AAOSwDX9kaAl4&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4Lz2foe95LXg5njPHsNkpXeXiOuSkBpMs7M8OS7974REnYyVKtaYIj2Vb91gks6MJDTuX2gyfxVUMZhwWoE58QvOqQ3bvI65ZoqHpJ3MIr%2FGMQ95Vp0GVfl4vZJm44kR8wGsssKVUnR7MXNwVou9iaXeSsbBVJHQw4x8MTPixZ7GTPB%2BvhM4KTk6DPtvGw9wLyRjM4%2BHIXDkG2g%2Fq%2BL1M8hOL7rSuvrkflR0oeHH87rWrWn0bubc%2FEnpAw%2FPuAJIb3fHgBi7r9t6Pf1NjPK0o2g0QXYJsB%2B%2FniJ9DxEhXlLM%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-Ln5pbmYw)
You might try contacting him to see if he has more or to find out where he got them.
Douglas Autotec was acquired byJ TEKT Column Systems North America Corporation effective April 1st, 2023. They're still located in Bronson, MI and their phone number is Ph: (517) 369-2315.
This also might work???
NEW Douglas Autotech Horn Brush Kit DUG HB01 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/276351891149?itmmeta=01HWRPSPFEARY4FFETBZFAGRE7&hash=item4057db36cd:g:dcEAAOSwoHtl2m6e&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwDfckOLu%2FvDUFFXQu4fwdzXxh17mzb8fjC%2Bn3vEzLZN5amTKzmfEyqCtilg1Uy8EfeM%2BnRL23Z3kdF93dPfoKpaljB0t6xbX%2FIB7Zz5o1U875%2FT%2BgU9LgvOp3E2fy0HhfywsECcaF7hsjne%2BumY2P0FF2GZSRgpld6R9z7SBh60IRpzo3W1cj2cJcw8I1fJxVkihEb%2Bu0L7ed%2Bdfm6kl3aLNdBAQvkQWX8ai0NBO12UktsD8GtE9O9BDdLwCJTvjMw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-Ln5pbmYw)
Entire steering columns also show up on Ebay so keep your eyes peeled.
I encourage everyone who has these model coaches to look for parts NOW as they're going to be increasing hard to find.
I did replace the module at one point but it didn't fix the problem so I sent it back. If I were to source one of the horn brush kits, do I have to remove the whole steering column to replace?
No. Paul Yasbeck did our work but from my understanding it's accessible after wheel is taken off. Others here can probably confirm.
Be worth a call to FOT and MOT as well on the chances they have one.
I'm short on time so I haven't re read all the post to see if this has been mentioned. On my coach there are two brake light electric valves in the first bay drivers side and one of those being bad caused my cruise issues. My coach is manual as in no ecm so obviously there are differences.
Wanted to follow up on my cruise control issue. I think I may have finally fixed it. I'm going to post this resolution in 2 posts since there was discussion about this in both.
I had previously ruled out the steering wheel "clock spring" thingy, though technically mine is not a clock spring, it's a "dual contact horn brush".
During my trouble shooting I cleaned the brass rings with contact cleaner with little success but had noticed that some of the ring was wore down to a different color. I assumed that since the two contact pins were still contacting the rings that this wasn't the problem, along with the fact that the intermittent problem didn't seam to coincide with turning the steering wheel (tilt and telescoping also). Well was I sadly mistaken.
I was going to change out my brake switches but felt like that wasn't the problem so I tackled the task of tracking down the horn brush. Foretravel didn't have the correct part number so I eventually found it from Jtekt. I think they bought out the original manufacturer of these (Autotec), but not sure. There are 2 part numbers (the part# for mine is 1900041) and the only difference is the length of the "gap hider", the round piece that's below the steering wheel. Luckily I talked to a knowledgeable man at Jtekt and he confirmed the correct part number for my application. (I just had to measure the 'gap hider') I actually had to call Foretravel and give them the correct part number so they could order it because I couldn't order direct from Jtekt. It was $250 with shipping but well worth my cruise control working.
I'm on 2 trips with not one mishap with the CC so hopefully I didn't jinx myself by celebrating too early. We'll find out Thursday when we head to Fort Bragg.
Hopefully if someone in the future has similar symptoms they will see this post and it will save them hours of pain and anguish tracking this down.
I attached the installation instructions I recieved with the part, not a very hard job just need to follow a few key operations.
After reading through this post again I should have listened to Floridarandy sooner. He mentioned tracking down the Horn Brush...it's just that the cruise not working was so random and intermittent I didn't think it was that was the problem. 🤷♂️🤦♂️