Ok folks I have a rant followed by a question. I have been searching for a U320 for about 8 months now. I have seen plenty and know what I want, I am having a problem with pricing. I understand and recognize the quality, craftsmanship and longevity of these coaches, I truly do. It seems that most every coach I come acrross is 50%-75% above nada. I find a coach listed for 120k, nada says 75k. Find one for 100k Nada says 60k...Even after listing all options and features. I understand nada can be manipulated but not by that margin. If the value of these coaches are truly that great that why is in not reflected in pricing history? Am I foolish and should look for another brand coach or is it just a reflection if the times and inflated economy we are existing in currently? I don't have a problem paying top dollar for a coach, I just don't want to end up on the wrong side of even. Thanks for letting me bend your ears!
Don't even look at nada,edmonds or any other pricing guide,Foretravels are too few to matter,the guides are useless except
for getting you to rant.
The only thing NADA is good for when referring to a Foretravel it helps the insurance companies screw you if you have a major claim.
Mike
Checking prices at dealers, RV Trader and the forum classifieds should give you a good idea of current value. To me, the real value of any coach is simply what you are willing to pay for it. If its exactly what you want, might be worth more than one that needs upgrades or repair.
One has to pay for excitement in life!
Nowadays most toys or luxuries in life rarely sell for what some services say they might.....Especially if they are of high end quality. Foretravel RV's fall into these categories. I looked for over 2 years, mainly looking to only settle for certain features. Ultimately this lead me into the arena of only what are considered Premier coaches. Much less can still be had for much less, the question is are you willing to settle for less than what you desire. The still HOT travel market is really not helping this situation either.
While your searching, and have a budget.....dont overlook, if you are shopping in and around the 20 year old market, prepare to spend about another 15 - 20+% of that to update all of the aged stuff that it will take to make it 100% reliable for any travels. We bought a very nice 2001 in excellent shape. But it was still 20 years old and MANY things needed to be refreshed. With me doing 100% of the labor I have easily spent that %. My spending did include a structure in which to store it out of the elements. Also self built.
Your not taking it with you when you leave this realm, though my wife claims she will write me a check for all my values and place it in the carboard box with me as I depart!!
Out of curiosity I looked up our 2003 U320. The average retail was $107k. Ours is darn near perfect which might add a little. That's probably within 10k of what I'd take for it if we needed to sell. That said there was a lot more sales activity for those than the later models.
If financing is a concern go to a credit union.
There's you first mistake. This sort of thing is not an investment. Buy an RV is an expense. You will never "get your money out" of an RV.
Emmett,
Bill has nailed it on the head. Classic economic theory: In any
unregulated sale transaction the price satisfies both the buyer and the seller, matching supply with demand. There will be, at any given time, a limited number of used Foretravel coaches on the market. Of those for sale, only a few might meet
your particular expectations or requirements. If you find the "perfect" coach being offered by a seller, you have a choice: pay the asking price, or walk away. If you pay the price, then by definition you are a "satisfied" buyer, and the coach was priced fairly. It doesn't matter what other buyers have paid for other coaches at other times in other places, because each transaction is unique. A Foretravel coach is not a everyday commodity - it is a luxury. If you want a particular unit bad enough, you will pay the asking price. If YOU feel the price being asked in the current market is too high, then you should seek an alternative unit that seems, to you, more fairly priced.
To me as a private owner ,not a dealer owner, there is a love issue involved. We love our coaches, so when it comes time to sell voluntarily or involuntarily it reflects that emotion in the price. The more you have your heart invested in something the higher the price when it comes to sell time. Plus you have a lot of good memories with the coach, it's almost part of the family. Then the potential buyer comes along trying to get the price down by pointing out all the defects. Also you know what you have put into the coach, repair and maintenance wise. Then comes the dance between buyer and seller, who knows more about the coach? I remember when I was young and watched how my father sold his Porsche. He was very easy going and laid back. He was friendly and low stress when he interacted with the buyers. He wanted to sell but his life didn't depend on it so he could afford to be low stress. The buyer of course was motivated and excited about looking to buy a Porsche. The more my father made the potential buyer feel good the easier it was to sell the car. Then when the buyer agreed to the price and the sale he asked my father, okay now that I've bought the car and paid you what is wrong with the car. My father then walked him around the car and pointed out the few defects. The buyer then offered my father a job selling cars for him. My dad declined as he already had a job in the aviation industry. I don't know if this helps you Emmett, maybe it just gives you a few ideas concerning this subject. Best of luck to you in your quest for Foretravel ownership.
If you think Foretravel's are priced too high, go buy a coach that matches NADA, you will feel better. Then in a few years or less you might be coming back on here telling us you wish you had bought a Foretravel.
Supply and demand at play along with you limiting your selection to just the U320's
But probably only until you start using it...
Having sold coaches is the past for a dealer, I have always believed in don't get caught up in all the bling, look at the substance and build quality of an RV you are interested in. Price is long forgotten if you are a happy buyer. Period. The Foretravel is a quality, no bling coach with the best the RV industry has to offer. Newell, Prevost, Country Coach and Foretravel. You won't go wrong on any of those!
I know this is a very passionate group and I am by no means trying to step on any toes. I can tell that some feathers have been ruffled. I have posted several coaches on this forum that I have been looking to get a feel for value. My PM box has been flooded with members telling me the coaches were overpriced, keep looking. That is the first part of my quandary. I have looked at coaches that had substantial body damage, torn and damaged upholstery I have looked at coaches that have been untouched for 20 years With masive bulkhead problems and the sellers have all said the same thing "it's a foretravel so the price is firm" I am looking for a true pride of ownership coach, so my search is challenged by sorting out the good coaches from the bad and I am venting. Thank you all for your input
I have a 98 u320 36ft no slides.
99 is a better unit with 10k pull and larger main door opening.
It is the perfect unit for the two of use and 3 animals.
No need for anything else.
I am assuming tne well cared for 99 or 98 36ft u320, no slides may go up in price?
Nothing else like it in my books
I totaly agree with your ballpark on pricing. And would pay a little extra for a near perfect coach
No feathers ruffled here
When I went to sell my old FT coach I had gotten a call from a Foretravel owner that told me I had my coach price listed too high. The first day I had 4 calls from people that wanted to see the coach. I sold it that day for close what I was asking for it. If the coach's price is too high and no one want to pay that, it will sit. You have two options, wait for the seller to reduce the price if it does not sell or look at different coaches.
Just remember we only have so much time to enjoy, tomorrow may be too late.
Emmett -hang in there, you'll find the right one. I would prioritize condition over price.
Foretravels are like dogs... the purchase price is quickly dwarfed by total cost of ownership. And the free ones are often the most expensive, though you do get lucky once in a while.
By choosing to look at Foretravels you have done some research. Not mentioned in NADA is safety and drivability. Yes if its 20 years old it is more difficult to get a real value. IMO real value is what you sell it for not what you buy it for. I too attempted to not overspend and followed what the insurance companies say is actual value, except it cant be found anywhere in there opinion. I found Foretravel because of there product history and my personal needs. Nothing I could afford compares. I also looked for years and had given up basically when I was told of my current coach. Glad I stayed resolved and happy with were I am, others would of wisely ran away. So my question to you would be exactly what are you looking for and why? Find what you must have and disregard what doesn't meet your needs. See if you can find within your price range. At this point you should be able to recognize what is a fair price and offer less. Economy is slowing down and fuel is going up. My goal was not to have to repeat the process twice because I had chosen cheaply or wrong. Few owners expect to make money on there purchase unless you deduct the cost of having a great time from the calculation. To me there is value to that. Always cheaper to rent SOB. (Some other brand) The value of everything is above what I think the real actual value is. Go to McDonald's and buy lunch to prove my point.
Scott
No one feathers are ruffled.
Everyone commenting, myself included has been through this exact process.
The keys is success in my opinion are knowledge, patience and the ability to strike immediately when you find the right coach. I lurked for a year on this forum once I narrowed focus. I read everything I could, asked dumb questions and learned a lot.
FT owners here on this forum uniquely have a wealth of knowledge and are incredibly generous sharing their time and expertise.
You are in the right place. Just be patient. When you find the right coach you will know it. Be ready to strike immediately. Well sorted coaches for sale don't last long.
Our coach has gone virtually unused this past year. We got it out of the garage to take it to a hospital parking lot in OKC (they have a few hookups) for a friend to occasionally escape to while her daughter is on life support.
She has been amazed at how comfortable it has been and grateful for the much needed rest she has gotten.
I guess any RV would have been welcomed but the quiet Aquahot and the sturdiness of the coach in the Oklahoma wind have been wonderful for her.
We paid more than NADA when we bought this one but it has been well with every penny.
Funny this subject about FT worth and pricing would come up now as I have recently, and in the past also, had this discussion with others. I have also had the discussion with myself over the last year.
I bought a 2008 Nimbus 338 CCE rare mid-entry almost exactly a year ago. I found it sitting on a the back lot of a consignment lot here in AZ with a inoperable Living room slide and a couple other minor issues. Turns out the owner of the coach and the lot were at odds with the repairs as supposedly it all worked when the owner left it there. After seeing the coach in person, I immediately fell for it. I had never even heard of Foretravel prior to seeing this coach. I dove into gathering as much information on the brand and coach as possible. I got on the forum and asked numerous questions to help with my decision. The coach had 80k miles on it when purchased, and I could tell someone had taken excellent care of it, inside and out. We had been looking at other used coaches and I was very disappointed in what I could get for my money. The other brands were just absolute garbage compared to this coach. I could just tell walking around in it that the cabinets and interior fittings were well above others. It drove like floating on a cloud and had lots of available power. I got the lot and owner to drop the price significantly, throw in all the parts they had ordered from HWH for the slide repairs and we bought it. I immediately replaced all the tires, had all fluids changed, got generator and Oasis serviced, and drove it back to FOT and had all repairs made. Slide repair was only $600 bucks as we had the parts. We have been happy since. Now did I overpay for the coach(140k)? Probably in most peoples eyes. But compared to the Berkshires, and Allegros and others in that class of coach that we had looked at, absolutely not IMO. Some of those wanted 200k plus for coaches in much worse shape and nowhere near the quality of build.
Now have we had some minor issues in the last year, yes. I expect it with a coach of this age. But the bones are good and it is all fixable. We are and will remain proud Foretravelers for as long as our health allows us to participate in this lifestyle.
We may have overpaid for our coach but i got the features that i wanted and the DW wanted a green one. Also once she saw the Foretravel quality she would except nothing less, i tried.
Good luck finding a Casita, Scamp, Escape, Phoenix Cruiser, Coach House, LazyDaze, Westfalia, Sportsmobile, Roadtrek, Pleasureway, Leisure Time or Born Free for NADA. Nada is generally purchase price on a depreciation scale, not market. Low volume, high quality RVs are a thing unto themselves. Diesel prices, however, are your friend right now as a prospective buyer of diesel pushers.
I hear you can get them for cheap 1600 miles away in a barn and owned by a lawyer of sorts. and dealing with the local sheriff is no problem. Always heard that can be a piece of cake purchase..... couldn't help myself for inside poke.
Don't let perfect get in the way of done.*
Art Joly, Retired Toolmaker.
*I've never finished anything, as I abandon most projects when they're good enough to do the job. And start on the next.
Actually laughed out loud. If your going to be dumb you got to be tough. But look at all the great stories and memories. Was just thinking, nothing worked, but it still worked out for me/us. We will have to spend a couple hours talking about it around the fire pit someday.good stuff 👍👍
Roadrunners are going to run the road, crap a bunch of us have the affliction but we want no cure. Will be waiting on that sit down. 👍
Interesting discussion. Several years ago, right after the in-frame overhaul, we were at MOT to get the first oil change. While we were there I asked them what our coach was worth. The answer surprised me. They said they would list it for just under what we had just paid for the engine overhaul, and then they would take a large portion of that for their efforts.
Last spring I was contacted by a "serious buyer" who really wanted our coach. He eventually showed up (spring time in Wyoming, only a couple of hours notice, no electricity at the coach) and drove the coach. I've never heard another word from him. Was the price too high? Something wrong that he didn't want to deal with? Who knows?
Later this month we'll be at MOT for annual service, and of course we'll look over what they have for sale. It will be interesting to see what they think our coach is worth when I talk to them about trading for something on their lot.
We have the option of trying to convince the owner that the price is too high, though that rarely works.
Our previous coach, I watched his Craigslist ad. One day, I happened to look at it just minutes after he dropped the price by 1/3. I was polite but insistent and talked my way into being the first there and I paid his price.
Our FT... We were so excited to find it that we kept giggling like little kids and talking about how nice it was. When it came to price, I just told him I was taking it and asked if he had any small mercy on the price.
He told me that my (asking price) offer was not acceptable, and that I had better get back out there, find the faults in the coach, and make him an offer under asking price! And that I had better be able to justify my deductions.
I did as asked and made an offer a few thousand under the asking price. He looked at me with a stern face, thought a minute (probably theater). He asked my wife "Your husband deducted for a can of touch up paint... Will he REALLY go buy the paint and touch it up?!" Kelly said "I know my husband - he will."
We shook hands and the deal was done. There was a pint of touch up paint hidden away in the coach.
I recently listed our CRV towd on Craigslist at a fair price. Within five minutes I had a serious caller. In ten minutes, he said he wanted it. In fifteen I had a $500 deposit via Paypal. All without him seeing the car.
I have never minded leaving a bit of money on the table. I have also learned that asking "Is there anything else that goes with it?" can do magic if everyone is smiling.
We bought our 1999 40' 295 in 2006 from a dealer. I have the original sales paperwork 435k, we paid 86k. We are the 2nd owners. Along the way all things that age out airbags, fuel lines, steering box, brakes, along with all other issues, as well as the upgrades inside floors, new W/D stack, TVs new furniture. They don't necessarily add a bunch of value, they just have to be done to keep the coach in good shape. The point of all of this is value the books don't add. Additionally book value on 20+ year old Motorhomes just don't work. If you find a well maintained/ upgraded coach that checks your boxes go for it. As others have said these things are not a investment, they are for your enjoyment. Happy hunting.
Actually a darn good way to get a coach if one has skills and motivation.Can end up with a nice rig with more sweat equity involved that unreasonably high labor rates. A guy could make a buck and I don't know of many way's to do that with ANY RV.
We just got lucky. It was filled with many obstacles and now seems like a long hard, hot uphill pull. We have made it to the top and have been rolling down the other side. Yes there will be more issues to resolve but the last 5K was without issue. Honestly I never would of purchased at full price and
doubt I would of been happy with less. Without the forum/members literally it never would of happened for us. Im sure there are coaches in storage forgotten about for years like ours was. Literally everything that would of been changed if they were actively in use will need to be addressed and more.
Scott
Many years back we used to go to the baseball card shows and sell,buy,trade,saw it many times,your card that you sold the
"dealer" as a 3 was magicly transformed into a 10 as soon as he got it.
Scott truly made silk out of a sow's ear..... this was a find that you had to assume needed everything.
NADA aside, a Foretravel is a quality motorhome. Whether you buy a new one off the showroom floor or buy an older one that was sitting in (or outside) a barn, it's the USE of it that matters. If what you buy meets your needs and fits your budget, then it's a good deal.
You can do a lot of upgrading and repair work for what it costs to drive a new Foretravel off the showroom floor, especially if you do that work yourself. If you are lucky, you can find a pre-owned coach that is fully operational, has been properly maintained and needs nothing.
I agree with everything that everybody said.
One these are depreciating liabilities not assets.
2 nada does not reflect the true value of the coach or the selling prices.
3 it's fairly easy I think to evaluate over time what the particular year make and model coach that you want should sell for. By looking at the classifieds on this forum, by looking at motorhomes of Texas and other large dealers that will tend to sell newells country coaches and foretravels.
4 any other thing too would be to ask current owners what their opinion of an asking price is.... somebody mentioned about how they loved their coaches. I would say that just because you love your coach doesn't mean that you should ask the moon for it. Eventually they all sell. Well you could get a coach that was not taken care of cheap, would you want that,? Never buy a coach unseen. Always have it inspected by somebody that knows these coaches. There's nothing wrong with negotiating a price. You have every right to say I would give you this amount for it. And of course the seller has every right to say no. When I bought my coach 5 years ago maybe? The seller had what I considered to be a reasonable price considering all the upgrades that had been done to it. Looking back on it I don't think I would have changed that. Although I did give him extra for some add-on stuff that in the end I had to replace a lot of it anyway
Good luck in your search.
I have noticed that up here in Northern Wisconsin resort areas that a lot of "FOR SALE" signs go out in front of places for sale.
Prices are usually quite high but, if the property doesn't sell this year the sign goes down for the winter and goes back up the next spring. And this seems to go on and on until either it sells or the seller agrees to a drop in price.
One has to determine themselves what they are willing to pay for what they want and what it is worth to them.
NADA looks at sales of a vehicle and makes a determination of what they are worth. It includes those coaches that have sat in a back yard uncared for and not maintained.
NADA does not differentiate between a 99 in running order and never updated and a 99 that has been rebuilt, remodeled, refurbished.
The NADA priced coaches are out there, MOT has no real desire to sell them, they are at "beaters".
The difference between the beater and the beauty will probably be $35,000 asking price and $55,000 spent by the seller.
Forget NADA it's useless because not enough coaches are sold to get a good average, buy a decent coach and insure it for its true value, an agreed value, you agree that's what it's worth and your insurance company agrees to write a check for that amount.
None of us are going to sell our fully functional coaches for a NADA price, so it is not a fair appraisal of what a $300,000 coach is worth 20 years old and looking like it just left the factory.
Happy hunting!