How to gravity fill freshwater tank and never use city water to pressurize plumbing &
faucets.
Fresh water tank gravity fill (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30403.msg263162#gallery_263162-1)
Fresh water tank gravity fill (https://bityl.co/FeAa)
We connect city water hose to the white looped hose on the left side of the photo to fill he tank, after opening the red PVC valve in the photo. This is our configuration from almost day one of our over 20-year full time living and traveling in our 1997 U270.
We remove the PVC cap and screw in the short hose that is laying on top of the PVC tee. Then pour in the contents of a quart bottle that contains 1-oz of unscented laundry bleach and the rest water. We do this before every fill for over 20 years of full time living to keep water in tank chlorinated. Never could count on consistent city/well water chlorination from all of the hundreds of campgrounds over these years.
We never counted on freshwater tank gauges, so we used the paper computer printed strip on the left side of the translucent tank to know quantity. Using the florescent lamp on the top of the tank to illuminate the tank water level.
Also never used city water pressure on plumbing pipes. 100% of water faucet pressure was from motorhome water pump. For over 20 years, we filled fresh water and dumped holding tanks once a week. With 150 gallons of holding tanks holding less than 100 gallons of fresh water, we did not need to measure holding tank levels either.
The freshwater filler connection on the left side of the photo was always capped off and never used. We also added a male hose fitting on the output of the hot/cold water fixture so we could connect a hose to get hot water.
We run a 50' ½" garden water hose in the kitchen window so the person inside can have unlimited water flow to clean toilet, flush all three drains while draining holding tanks. The intercom on the basket is used to communicate inside to outside so we know when to turn inside water hose on & off. The inside end of the hose is cut off to keep the hose from getting caught inside toilet & drains and to prevent scratching fixtures, but the only way to emergency cut off water flow is by folding hose, hence the need for the intercom.
Our holding tank drain hose has larger ends that did not fit in OEM storage on bottom right bay wall, so we closed that hole off. We rolled up drain hose in front of freshwater tank when traveling and temporary stored drain hose in engine compartment when in a campground for more than a few days. We always dump and fill before getting on the road to better handle a potential breakdown or unplanned stop where there are no hookups.
Barry
Am interested in adding the fill system on the top of the fresh water tank. Do you have pictures, installation instruction/suggestions and part numbers for the fill valve at the top of the fresh water tank?
Peter
Barry,
I have complete instructions with photos on our direct fill installation on our water tank in a post four or five years ago. Quick connect with filter canister makes it much faster to fill the water tank or add chemicals. We NEVER use city water pressure on our coach water system. The tank also has a level line toward the top to show the maximum fill level without spilling. We don't use any electronic gauge for water level.
Pierce
I've heard many others also use this practice of not using city water pressure and have used it myself quite a bit. However, when parking long term in a spot, I find it annoying having the pump running all the time and wonder how long before I'm replacing the pump. How many times have you "pumpers" had to replace a water pump?
Also, it is even more annoying when taking a shower and the pump causes the water to surge between warm and hot. Do you guys have that issue in your rigs? Also the pressure surge is not ideal. Is there a better water pump / pressure tank system that I need to switch to? I find that my pump kicks on after about a cup of water has come out of the faucet.
Thanks,
Kevin
My wife hates using the pump too. I've been brainstorming a solenoid valve system that can go between my hose and water hookup. That would allow us to have city water while also being able to easily shut it off when we're gone.
Pierce
I am having trouble narrowing down where your post is discussing your water fill installation (you have sooo many posts!
Peter
The shower on my rig is a steady flow and I only use the pump.
Peter,
Here are the photos. I can't find my old post. Less than $50 for all the parts in the photos.
You could T off after the filter to add a little bleach to the tank. PM with questions.
The shower is steady, no temp variation except for the first 5 seconds. >:D
Pierce
May look at what the pressure/PSI is for yours and adjust?
Thanks Pierce
Exactly what I was looking for. I will explore the filter options online to obtain the best one. I bet I will have to be careful drilling the hole so the plug does not fall into the tank!
Peter
Usually using a holesaw the inner piece stays in the saw. Using a vacuum can pic up most of the
cuttings.
As I recall, I drilled slowly, pulling the tool out ever few seconds to let the plastic shavings clear our. The piece did stay in the saw tool when I finished as I remember.
I mounted everything first so I had the clearance, mounted the filter and bracket and then sighted along the pipe in the photo and drilled a hole in the center where the hole was to go. Not good to drill the hole before you know where the other parts are going. 8) Your choice of 2.5 X 10 inch elements to go in the filter housing.
No leaks ever.
Pierce
Two showers every day, Shurflo 4008 & 4048 water pump with small Shurflo plastic accumulator. No water surge. To conserve shower water, we have always used in shower a kitchen hand sprayer hose / handle where when you take your hand off handle valve, water stops flowing. No fancy shower head in coach, where all resources are limited. We use less than 100 gallons of fresh water each week.
Our Moen shower valve does not have a water valve to slow water flow, so we put in a ball valve on kitchen sprayer hose.
I just had to replace the pump and remove the factory original accumulator, most likely due to poor winterization practices by the PO. Installed a new Shurflo 4008 and found I didn't even need to add the small plastic Shurflo accumulator. The pump is quiet (I did add flex hose on both inlet and outlet on the pump to reduce noise on the pipes). The pump is also effective. It easily handles the .33 gallon per minute flow rate needed by the new Furion On Demand water heater. And no surging that I can detect. Just a constant flow of endless hot water (or at least until the fresh tank is emptied). No pain, all joy, at least now...during the install there was a bit of pain; it's tight quarters in that part of the bay that holds the water heater, what with the welded in water heater support brace in the 1995 U295. That wrenched my back with the contortionist moves required to reach back in there to get the pump lines in.
Bill
Great to know guys. I'll have to add a new pump to the never ending list of things I need to get done!!
Kevin
I like the pumps that make a small noise each time they operate. We never leave the coach without turning off the pump and if we happen to go to bed forgetting to turn it off, the occasional click is a reminder to get up and switch it off. I do have to say that it would be nice to get rid of the big blue accumulator tank.
Pierce
U270 coach has a deep, not tall compartment under hot water tank to house water pump. This is much different than other Foretravel models with water pump in shallow space with little room around pump.
FYI, We did not mount our water pump, but it does sit in a foam cradle that we added. In & out hoses are long, allowing us to pull pump out of the bay while still working. Also saves pain of working in close quarters.
Also added ball valves on input & output ½" water hoses to allow changing water pump without having to empty fresh water tank & drain water manifold.
We also carry a spare water pump and put old water pump in service to transfer water from pails to tank, like at Quartzsite. Old broken Shurflo variable speed pump is a great transfer pump when bypassing the bottom circuit board by bring 12v power directly to motor.
Shurflo no longer makes a variable speed pump. New models are variable-spring water bypass with a constant speed pump, and they work great (4008 & 4048).
Pierce, we had the same concern about not knowing when water pump turns on. Years ago, we had a noisy water pump and when it was replaced with a quiet model, we then realized we missed the running sound.
To remedy this, we ran a single wire to a little switch under the kitchen sink that with a local ground connection connected the wires to Piezo sounder (like a buzzer) located under sink. The business end of the new wire is connected to the little pressure switch on the front of the water pump. When pump motor runs, piezo sounds off.
One of the major benefits of always using water pump for faucet pressure is when pump is turned off, there cannot be any water leaks like the ones that destroy coaches. We always turn off water pump every time we leave the coach. When home, we will hear piezo sounder if a pipe fails. To remind us to turn off water pump, we ran a couple of water pump relay wires to a lighted momentary switch located at the front door. A quick glance to be sure water pump relay light is off helps as we walk out and lock up.
On Pierce's accumulator comment: These large accumulators could hold unsafe stagnant water that does not get flushed out. Also the internal bladder can leak keeping water on the air side of bladder.
Most new pumps like Shurflo 4008 & 4048 and other variable speed pumps do not need an accumulator. A small Shurflo black plastic accumulator Amazon.com: SHURflo 182-200 Pre-Pressurized Accumulator Tank,Black, 9.1" x... (http://amz.run/68JE) un-mounted, hose connected anywhere on the pressure side of water pump can damper any pulses, if desired. No more OEM old, corroded metal accumulator that may not even be doing much and taking up space.
I like hearing the pump run and my pump is not supposed to be used with a accumulator.
Berry,
Good point about the tank holding water, possibly for months at a time.
I've got a couple of the old belt driven pumps I may try to see hoe I like them. The came out of an old SOB. They cost a lot new today.
Pierce
Sorry, don't understand the concern. An accumulator cycles every time you turn on the water. When it empties (actually lowers PSI in the system) the pump turns on and refills the accumulator.
Stagnant water???
Yes, but the water in the accumulator remains in there over the off season if the water pump is not used. Really a small concern with the only possibility is brushing your teeth with the old accumulator water the first time you use the faucet since the accumulator is only a couple of feet away from the bathroom in our coach. The accumulator does not completely empty. Just enough so the pressure switch comes on for the pump.
What do you think of the Jabsco/PAR belt drive water pump? I have a couple from older RVs. Lots of these on boats.Pi
Pierce
I purchased the parts as pierce outlined and looked at the area for the Uniseal to be installed ( the tank has an cover over the edge which I removed) the edge of the tank is slightly angled, a flat surface yes, but with the Uniseal in and the pipe installed it would slant slightly down. Is everyone's tank this way? Does it make a difference in the seal if you slightly move the pipe when installed so it is level? Seems to me, you would want the pvc pipe to be level...
You guys are overthinking this bit about stagnate water in the accumulator tank. On well water at the farm, I had an 80 gallon accumulator tank and kept it at 50 lbs of water pressure. I sure did not want to run that 2.5 hp well pump every time I needed to get a sip of that wonderful well water. Think about this, if you have 100' of 3/4" pipe coming into your home from the city main at the street, you have 2.3 gallons of city water in that pipe. Think about how long you would have run your faucet to get fresh water. Same as with the 2.5 gallon accumulator on the RV. A couple of showers every day keeps that water in the pipe or the accumulator fresh enough. By the way, the accumulator tanks have a bladder that stretches as it is filled, so no rusted metal for the water to be exposed to. I like filling my tank up with city water as it has chlorine in it and I feel it helpskeep the water in my tank potable. I use the sink filter for ice and drinking water. Every so often, I shock the tank water with chlorine Bleach and run it out and refill. The city water I get from Providence Water co. at Escapees is good treated well water. The city water at Port Isabel had 765 ppm of dissolved solids in it, with 800 being considered toxic. I would not even let my dog drink that water. We bought bottled water down there until I put in reverse osmosis and plumbed it to my ice makers and drinking water taps. Thanks, I am enjoying the discussion on water and tanks.
FYI, I've installed fresh water tank supply line to the pump, and output side of the pump in-line shut off valves.
Now when replacing a water pump, I don't need to first drain the water tank. With practice, my spare pump can be installed in just a few minutes.
I switched from the solenoid fill my tank from the bottom to top fill it back in 2020 before I took off full time. I also changed out my pump to the shore flow 4048. It's a good move and I always run off tanks never off City water. It's great when the pressure is fairly high because it fills the tank quicker but not so great when you're hooked up to it. Yeah I know you can have a pressure regulator and I have one of those but don't use it anymore. What I did in addition to the top fill was to run a PVC line across the top of the tank to the pump side of the wet Bay. I put in three 10-in big blue knock off filters. One is sediment filter two is a kdh or carbon block type filter and the third one is a ceramic filter from England. The water gets filtered going into the tank as well as coming back out or at least that's how I designed it to do it. The ceramic filter you clean with a brush or a green scrubby. The other ones get changed as needed. But even with that I still have water issues because as the original poster mentioned you just can't ever be sure what kind of water you're putting in your tank. I recently cleaned my water system with ozone supplied by Scott and Boulder City and I'm still getting chunks out of places that that stuff dislodged. But I fear the last Phil I got some contaminated water because it now smells like rotten eggs and my dog and I have a having some diarrhea even though I don't drink from the tank. Once I move further north I'm going to get a product off of Amazon that I've used before to sanitize again but in the meantime I'm wanting to put some bleach in there and I'm guessing I have 50 gallons of water in my tank. If you're doing a 1 to 13 bleach ratio that would be 3 gallons. I've never put that kind of bleach through my system. Are my numbers correct?
I like how Barry uses the hose to flush out the s traps in the shower in the sinks as well as the toilet. It's a good idea and I wish I can do it as a single person have to make a system to accomplish that. I think a simple shut off valve connected to another short piece of hose so nothing scratches the tank or the sinks would work.
The other cause of the rotten egg smell could just be high mineral content hard water. I bought a water softener when I was staying at Scott's place I have yet to use it. Maybe the next fill I should run the water through that first. The only other choice would be a RO system and UV in my opinion. I thought about that as well but haven't done it yet.
Bob, I am still on the city fill, but then use the tank. On the city fill the water goes through a stand alone filter, then the On The Go Water Softener and then to the tank. I also have a filter under the sink and have never had any issues with the water, knock on wood! The On The Go is a wonderful product and glad I purchased it. I have the double one! I have never put that much bleach in my tank to sanitize it. I have a small bottle like system, sold on Amazon that holds a small amount of clorox and this hooks up to the fresh water hose and as you are filling the tank, it puts the chlorine in as well. Just enough not to flush the system out after! Hope you get your issues with the water fixed. So that was the issue with Chief?
Bob,
Here is the info direct from Clorox about sanitizing and/or cleaning water tanks. It doesn't tale much.....
If you have a tank with clear water that you simply want to make sure is safe to drink or use for human contact (hand washing, laundry, etc.), then you can follow the protocol for emergency disinfection of drinking water. In that case, the correct ratio of bleach is 1 teaspoon Clorox® Disinfecting Bleach per 7 gallons of water (or for a smaller size container, 4 drops per quart). Stir the bleach into the water and let stand 30 minutes. Properly treated water should have a slight chlorine odor—if not, repeat the dosage and let stand an additional 15 minutes.
To clean out a water tank, thoroughly flush the tank using a bleach solution made with 1/3 cup Clorox® Disinfecting Bleach per 3 gallons water (a 500ppm bleach solution). I'm not sure of the size of your tank or how much bleach solution you will need to clean the tank, but here's one example: to make approximately 9 gallons of bleach solution, then you would start with 9 gallons of water, and then add 1 cup bleach. After flushing the tank with the 500ppm bleach solution for 5 minutes, then rinse with a 10ppm bleach solution (1 teaspoon bleach per 10 gallons of water)
Personally we would use KMn04 ( Potassium permanganate) to sanitize the water system as if some is not flushed out of the system your body can handle this and not Cl. If you continue to be at a spot that has egg smell water you need to check into a green filter element.
Mike
As noted earlier, for 2-decades, just before every once-week fresh water fill, is to add 1-oz of un-scented laundry bleach to a 2 quart bottle to partly dilute it and pour it into our gravity fill with an add on 1.5" diameter hose that reaches up outside compartment above top of tank level.
The 1-ounce is for a planned 50 gallon fill, increasing to 2-oz for about 100 gallon fill. 1.5" hose has a PVC screw on fitting, and hose is removed and a PVC cap closes the opening before using a garden hose to fill from city water.
I like the single person water hose with ball valve mod and cut-off hose end for clearing shower and sink traps and cleaning toilet. Nothing like lots of water to clear out drains.
Adding an in-hose bottle to add bleach sound practical. One could also be home-made with PVC parts.
We did make a short portable PVC manifold with ball valves, that is used when we are a long distance from city water shutoff. Run long hose to side of coach, connect to manifold, and then add hoses for fill, inside cleaning, etc.
We only use 1/2" white potable water hoses as they take up less space when coiled up.