Foretravel Owners' Forum

Hello,

I am new to this forum, and honestly new to motorhomes. I'm looking to buy a motorhome for full-time living that will be a mix of back and forth between Maryland and Florida, with significant periods of being parked in between. I am contemplating the purchase of my first motorhome, and I've come across a 1996 U320 40' with no slides. I have done an initial inspection on my own and have had the owner take me on a short test drive on back roads and highway. The coach is very nice and in great shape for the age, with everything in working order (minus some minor things of which I am currently aware), has custom paint that is in great shape, and new tires. I have some things to note here, and I wanted to get some feedback and help from those of you who own these coaches. To me, it seems they are fantastic quality all around and if well taken care of (this has been stored indoors since its original purchase) would be fine even now, 26 years later.

Here are some things to touch on at the moment:
1) Appliances are all original and in working order. Is this something to cause alarm, being so old?
2) Has 200k miles on it, split between two owners. I know both, and they both seem to have cared for and maintained it well. I realize 200k is nothing for a diesel coach, but is there anything major in my future?
3) Steering knuckle has been replaced in recent years.
4) Alternator has recently been replaced, but I don't see any other noticeable engine component replacements.
5) Generator seems to have a minor oil leak, but runs fine.
6) Windshield has minor leak(s). The owner says there is a "trickle" inside with hard rain, and he has never been able to get it to stop, even after a few windshield replacements. He said he didn't care about it that much since the front is fiberglass and therefor will lead to no rust. But, of course the dashboard is full of things that should not be wet.
7) Owner says the brakes all around are original. 200k miles seems excessive for original brakes, but he says he has used the retarder extensively over the years to minimize use of the actual brakes.
8.) Dash air does not work, and he does not know the reason.
9) Some minor cosmetic damage here and there on the exterior, but nothing serious or even noticeable.

As I said, I have only done an initial 1 hour or so personal inspection with the owner, and he was very transparent and nice about walking me through everything. He is asking $60k, and I feel this is a fair price. I have read through the post "50 Things to Check Before You Buy Your Used Foretravel" on this forum (50 things to check before you buy your used foretravel (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10866.0)), and I have seen a number of coaches (not Foretravel) and done a fair amount of research and reading. But I am no expert, and I value opinions and suggestions from people with experience.

I plan to hire a mobile inspector to check over everything. Does anyone have a recommendation for this? Maybe Premiere RV Inspections?

I really would just like for some of you to comment on this potential coach and if anything I have said is alarming, just easy fixes, etc.. I'm not reluctant to buy it, I just want to know if there is anything I should be aware of before doing so, and if there is anything specific I should look for during the process.

Thank you all in advance.

mm1313,

Welcome to the ForeForum.

Where is the coach located.  That will allow us to help you with recommendations for an inspector.

You really want someone familiar with Foretravels.  For example, most "general RV" inspectors would have no idea what the "bulkhead issue" is or how to check for it.

wolfe10, thanks for the reply and the welcome. It looks like this forum is a wealth of knowledge. The coach is located in Salisbury Maryland. I've done some searching for inspectors and there are only a few that show up. Some NRVIA certified, but like you said they will be "general". I have access to both of the owners, original and current. But, of course, you can't take the owner's word for everything. Thanks.

Getting an inspector is a good idea!

Nothing on your list seems outrageous. Our 1998 has the original appliances, and they all work well.

I wonder if 200K suggests a close look at suspension components.  Probably time for air bag replacement if they have not been done.

We have lots of original brakes at 160K-ish miles.

The windshield leak could just be finding the right spot to apply a dab of sealant.

Engine likely does not need component replacements.  When we were shopping, I found a forum thread where owners were angry over injector failures on their M-11 engines.  I read on, and it typically happened at 600k to 700k miles!

This forum will be big help when we have more details.  I am not an inspector, but if you are around Tucson, I will be glad to come over and talk about stuff.

Also, do stuff that Brett says.  He has helped me several times.  His advice turned an engine failure into simply adding a few gallons of fuel!

You can go to the member map (Log in (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=GoogleMap)).

Click on any owners near you and you can see if they are knowledgeable of things Foretravel OR know someone in your area that is. 

Matt, thanks for the reply. Good to hear you have a similar coach and you're not worried about these things.

I know the airbags may cost $700ish or something, if needed. They do not appear worn or weathered at all. They look very nice with no cracks or wear. But I understand that could be in the future.

The brakes surprise me, but again if you're saying that's not unrealistic then OK.

The windshield leak worries me a bit, especially since he says he has been unable to locate the problem area. But I think it's not the end of the world.

I appreciate the offer to take a look. Maryland, so nowhere near Tucson. But if you know any owners within a reasonable distance from Baltimore MD or the MD eastern shore that would be great. Obviously I would pay someone for their time.

Brett, thanks. I will check that.


Thanks

While the brake pads CAN last that long, they still need to be serviced (slide pins inspected, lubed, helper springs installed if not already there).

The coach does look nice but 60k seems to be a premium price it should be almost perfect. With that I don't like the front windshield leak, says changed glass twice. Something else must be leaking, could be simple?  Or hmm? If the brakes are original, it has to be ready for brakes on the back those wear sooner than the fronts. You definitely need someone to check out the aquahot those can be costly. Turn it on with diesel let it run through until it turns off and turns on again (cycles) a few times. Make sure the leveling key pad will turn on with key off. Check the leveling is adjustable on all 4 corners, little compressor should kick on when air on dash drops to low. Compressor is used for HWH only.

Noticed a good size dent on the under side, drivers side with the big Joey bed. Need to examine the structure and integrity of the lower belly pan, water could get in. Also educate yourself about "bulkhead separation" need to look very closely.

Lastly, I'm always nervous about a Northeast coach, look for corrosion. If the threads of bolts and fittings are not clean, (rust ate away) it is always a nightmare when working on.

Definitely get someone to help you look at this coach, typically you could probably find similar coaches in the 40-50k range that's why I say it better be perfect, and I don't see it. Just my opinion. Welcome to the group

John,

Thanks for this. I've done a good amount of reading about the prices, and it seems the general consensus on here is "there aren't a ton of them out there, the price is more what you're willing to pay and what you expect to need to fix, etc." I was a bit hesitant about the price, but after meeting the owner and seeing it in person I think it is justifiable and reasonable. Others I see listed online currently are around the same price, or less miles higher cost, slide higher cost, etc.. Knowing it has been stored indoors for 26 years when it wasn't being driven is nice, and it seems as close to "perfect" as I would expect for something so old and regularly used. I was pessimistic until I saw it. But again, I'm no expert.

The windshield leak is a concern. I searched this forum for that issue and didn't come across anything...

The owner said he had the aquahot serviced recently from a local certified service place, and he has records. But yes, of course I will need to check it. Thank you for the suggestion.

The leveling pad did work, but I didn't notice if the key was on at that time. And we were on a level surface so we didn't actually check the function. Something else I will certainly have checked.

The dent I did inspect. That is the only noticeable exterior damage. I looked underneath and it seems OK, but was deformed slightly. Not terrible. The owner says he ran over a driveshaft on the interstate years ago and this was the result, having also seriously damaged the car he was towing. I see no other undercarriage damage.

I need to research the bulkhead separation, yes.

Regarding corrosion, this was minimal. It is very clean and seems like he has been very meticulous about washing and cleaning it. And, stored inside when not using. Again, I will look closer but it seems very clean underneath.

If you think $40-50k is more realistic do think I should consider offering less once my inspection is complete? I have been comparing this to others (Foretravel and others) I have seen in-person and identified online and it seemed that factors like new tires, custom paint in great shape, and even my location play a role in the price...

If you know anyone near me I could ask to take a look please suggest. I have messaged a local owner already.

Thanks for the help.

Sometimes sealing a windshield to fix a leak doesn't stop the leak because it is coming from a clearance light above the windshield.

I was going to suggest the same thing.

Hello and welcome!

It appears this is the ad for the coach you are looking at. 1996 U320 For Sale (https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1996-Foretravel-U-320-5023752135) It looks like a pretty nice coach but the pics are kind of low quality. The damage to the bulkhead under the storage would be a large discount on price for me. I am sure that door does not seal and close properly and fixing it could be a lot of work. The miles are higher than most of that era. The one I bought was in worse condition than yours but I love it. I don't think you will go wrong, it just comes down to how much you want to invest.

Things I would consider: If buying this at $60k puts you at or close to your max budget I would pass. If you can afford to buy this and plan to put another 10-20k into it then go for it! Best case you buy it and use it as is with only small repairs. Worse case you planned for and budgeted to put some major coach bucks into it and you are still happy. I think it comes down to that.

Always stored inside is huge on my list.  We've had both and there was a lot of difference in those coaches that were kept inside. 

I would also take a close look at the clearance lights. Probably take them off and then reseal. That will probably stop the leak.

Agree.  IF (yes, IF) the windshield fits properly in the FG.  If not, FG to dash structure may be compromised.

I agree with replacing and resealing the clearance and mall identification lights. I replaced mine with TruckLite 18090Y LED lights and sealed them with 3M 4000UV sealant. Very pleased with the results!

Also the front cap seam can leak . The water runs down the headliner. Or into the cabinets.

Thanks to everyone who has commented since I last checked. I didn't think about resealing the clearance lights. Good suggestion. That may hopefully be the issue.

nbluesky, I understand. The damage isn't that bad, honestly. But I need to take a better look in more detail. It could be worse than it appears. Yes, the photos are bad quality but the coach is very nice in person. How much do you think you would suggest as a fair price if you were to lower based on that damage? $60k is not breaking the bank for me, but I also certainly do not plan to put $20k more into it. I hope to maintain and do some minor upgrades inside. No major overhaul or renovations. I originally didn't want to spend this much to begin with, but I have found very few coaches of even comparable quality for the same price.

Does anyone have an inspector to recommend?

Also, does anyone have any insight on resale later down the road? If I decided to sell this in a few years, while having maintained and cared for it properly, do they hold their value after this long?

Thanks

Fly Keith Risch (936-462-3764) in to do the inspection. I flew him to Albany NY to do an inspection. You wont regret it. Money well spent.

Do a search for Keith on the forum.

Michael

Thanks. I called Keith and left a voicemail.

I know this is not something that you asked about, but since you are planning on living in this motorhome full time and have no previous experience, are you confident you will be happy in a unit with no slides? We live full time in ours and cannot imagine living in one without a living room slide. We recently spent several months without the slide working while waiting on a part, and that confirmed for us that we would not want to be without one. I know others have a different opinion on this, and I don't want to start a back and forth over the issue. All I am saying is you should spend some time in the coach, imagine what it would be like living in it, and be sure you are comfortable long term.

Dave;  I have owned both a non slide and one slide coach now and both are very livable.  We full timed in our '98 non slide for 6 years and would have liked to have had it back.  We are now going on our 4th year in our 2000 one slide and we like it just as much, but really don't see the difference.  Just my most humble opinion on this!  Wish the buyer great success in finding their awesome coach!

I don't think I am the most qualified or experienced person on here to quote pricing. That being said I think if you are going into this and planning on having all the maint. and repairs fixed by other poeple $20k buffer would be a min. I was just reading another post where someone put $8k into just general repairs. Yearly maint costs alone will be several thousand if paying someone else to do it.  Now if you are handy and can do most the work yourself that buffer budget can be cut in half.  From everything I have read on here if you can get Keith to look at it you will have the most comprehensive data set to make a decision.

Don't want to scare you off, just want you to be realistic. Owning these is NOT an investment. They continually suck your wallet but ohh the joy that comes with it :) We love it! 

Now if we could get Dotties opinion it would be useful. We owned our coach for a year before using the slide. DW said we didnt need till we started using it. DWMYH.  15% a year loss calculates correctly for my coach since new
Scott

Thank you to everyone who commented on this. I appreciate the insight and willingness to help. I decided to go forward with the purchase, so I now own the coach. Overall, I am confident in my decision.

The bulkhead issue was fixed years ago, and I have the records for this. However, there is a leak that appears to come from the exterior utility faucet, and this worries me. I read on here that some others have experienced similar issues. I'm not sure how bad this has been or could be. I assume I will need to remove the fiberglass underbelly under the basement floor to inspect and repair any rust and/or wet insulation. Brett Wolfe, do you have a suggestion on how to investigate this leak and see how bad it may be? I see no exterior visible signs of any rust or damage underneath, and no soft spots anywhere aside from some rusty areas immediately around the bay floor just underneath the faucet where it has been dripping for who knows how long. I am handy and can do repairs myself, no problem. If it is a matter of removing the panels around the faucet and replacing the faucet that is no problem. I am much more concerned with how I can evaluate the extent of any damage from this that cannot be immediately seen.

See photos here:
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Everyone has been very helpful so far.

Thanks

To get the full answer, you will need to peel the white FG "bottom" that forms the "underbelly" of the center of the coach until you find good, clean box beam.

But, a good indicator would be to determine how far forward of the wet bay you see RUST JACKING that has "pushed down" the white FG bottom, making the imprint of the box beams more noticeable than further forward.

Said another way, irrespective of that "repair" was performed in the past, you need to dig into the rear bulkhead area.

Brett,

Thanks for the very fast reply. Just so I understand you correctly, you're saying I should first attack this from the inside of the utility bay, correct? Peel up the floor of the utility bay from above, not from underneath the coach? I will need to remove the panel behind the faucet, and it looks like this is rather straightforward. When you say I should look for the rust jacking that has pushed down the white fiberglass bottom I assume you're referring to the curved FB that wraps around from the side and under, stopping once it meets the underbelly. I do not see any deformation of the FB beyond a few inches around the area in the photos. I looked very carefully around the entire perimeter of the coach and this is the only area that seems to have any issue like this.

Thanks

NO.

You need to look from the bottom/under the coach. Yes, you will be laying on the ground on your back looking UP.

Be sure you have safety stands in place before crawling under.

Brett,

OK, thanks for clarifying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is why I wanted to ask. I appreciate your help. I'm sure there will be more questions. Do you think judging from the photos that this could be minimal or is there no real way to be sure one way or another based on this? I know others have had this issue.

Thanks

Like Brett said, the only real way to see what you have going on is to remove the FG sheeting that's on the bottom of the coach. Starting from the back where the angle iron is and go forward till you see good rust free metal.
 Might help if you use the "search" function in the upper right hand corner of the home page and type in "bulkhead issues"

Richard,

Thanks. Yes, I read a lot on the forum about bulkhead issues before committing to purchase, and now more. I know there is a lot of info here already. Obviously, I am not an expert, but the symptoms of issues are not present aside from this area, which is why I felt it was OK to proceed. What is the best way to remove the fiberglass to do the inspection? Is there a particular tool or strategy for doing this? Should I try to focus only on that area and peel only what is needed? I don't know how flexible it is, which is why I ask. What is the best way to reattach the FB to the structure once this inspection and/or repairs have been completed?

Thanks

Brett will reply soon,but you will need some good paint,I have used them all and for me Rust Bullet is the best by far,check their site,they have primers and top coat,I would bet that the rust extends much farther then you can see,a couple of owners have
redone the whole basement bottom themselves,you can search as they have some pictures.

A couple of good reads that will give you good pictures of the structure and also how others have made repairs:

Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31694.msg280564#msg280564)

Rear Bulkhead Repair (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30114.0)

Before, During, After (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16653.0)

Don starts buttoning her up (split from Re: What did you do to your coach) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=17450.0)

Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT - Page 2 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14530.25)

Brett,

Thanks for the reply. I have already read all of those posts/links, and I imagine I will be revisiting them. Thanks for referencing them. My question at the moment is really how to begin with the fiberglass. What is the best way to remove the fiberglass to do the inspection? Is there a particular tool or strategy for doing this? Should I try to focus only on that area and peel only what is needed? I don't know how flexible it is. What is the best way to reattach the FB to the structure once this inspection and/or repairs have been completed? I didn't really see those who have done the repairs mentioning how they did this specifically. Maybe I missed it when reading those posts. If there is a specific adhesive product I should use to reattach it that would be nice to know.

Thanks

A look at how far forward the rust jacking has occurred will tell you whether you will be able to just "peel down from the back" or will have to remove sections of the FG.

Certainly, from the photos, you will have to go at least to the front of the wet bay.

You might also tell us where you are located-- there may be someone with first hand experience near you who could take a look for you.

Brett,

OK, I will take some photos tomorrow and post them here. I expect I will have to go at least to the front of the wet bay, as you say. Thanks

I will jump in here with a strong suggestion  that once this repair is done you have to rebuild the drop down cover to make overlap underneath at least 1. 1/5 inches either side to help seal road water from getting thrown up into that area. I even made a simple deflector to put next to it on the leading edge.
Good luck, and just keep looking at every way water can get into the framework and you should not have any future problems.
Johnh

When only a "partial" repair is needed, what is the process to prevent future corrosion? I assume folks don't drop the entire frame to paint it, so how do you prevent it from happening all over?

Keep water OUT!

If kept dry, the basement structure will well outlast all of us.

This aluminum piece was attached originally with a few philips screws in the top lip and on the bottom.  Carefully try to remove the screws if possible or drill them out and then the aluminum piece should pull off.  That should allow you a starting point to peel down the fiberglass.

John44, thanks. I will look into Rust Bullet. It seems like it is intended to paint actual rusted metal the paint bonds with the rust to stop it and seal. Is this the case? I don't intend to just straight-up paint that awful rust, but it seems if there is some minor rust here and there inside that does not need replacing it can be cleaned and treated with Rust Bullet. Please confirm for me how you used this.

John Haygarth, yes the dropdown cover seems a point of concern. Definitely susceptible to letting in water. I agree with you that it should be redone and have a deflector and overlap.

Dave Larsen, thanks for that. I will do this and feedback here.

Can anyone recommend an adhesive and/or securing method for putting the fiberglass underbelly back in place after peeling it away for inspection and repair? Elliott, I see you did this (Bulkhead Skin Adhesive (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44238.msg447590#msg447590)) to yours. In here I see a lot of talk about adhesives. Has there been more talk about this since then?


Thanks

Have used it on a similar project on the coach and on a 01 ford excursion roof,after sanding to the metal.

It looks like your blue water pressure tank is leaking. It's on the picture in the bay that has the water pump.

Jeff and Sandy,

I'm not sure how you saw that photo since I never uploaded it. Odd. Yes, the accumulator tank has a very small leak. I already have a new one and will replace it tomorrow. Where did you see that photo? Am I forgetting I posted that? Strange.

Thanks

The link of the unit for sale has the picture of the blue accumulator tank.

When I through bolted my front and rear bulkheads I used a small grinder to cut the fiberglass panels away. I found where the closest  pieces of the frame were by tapping around and then cut to the next frame member leaving 1/2 of the cross beam to glue to. This gave me about a foot of space to work/drill/bolt.
The original fiberglass I cut away was trashed. I replaced it with FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Panel) available at Menards,HD, Loews, in 4x8ft sheets.
I cut it to size and used 3M 4000 adhesive to glue the FRP to the frames with  a FEW Stainless screws ( each screw hole needs to be sealed with the 4000 adhesive) . Like installing drywall to a ceiling. The fiberglass and foam board has no structural value to the bottom of the coach.

I know your asking about the steel substructure around the sewage hose outlet, not the bulk heads. The steel around your sewage hose exit looks badly corroded.  You mention that the bulkheads were already fixed, what were you told about how, and what, was fixed? If the bulkheads are as corroded as the sewage hose area I would want to have a good look at both the front and rear bulkheads to confirm the complete repair. If it was repaired with just a few bolts driven into rusted steel it is NOT repaired.

Dealing with the fiberglass under belly is not as involved as it my seem. Raise the coach so you have enough room to comfortably crawl underneath. Install some 10" 4x4 wood or steel blocks between the frame rails as shown in other threads and a sticky on top of this forum page. ALWAYS block up the coach when working under it. If the coach drops while under it and there are no blocks (two at each wheel) you will not have to worry about the coach anymore!
 The fiberglass underbelly is only about a 3/16" thick, easy to cut with a saw or grinder. It will be glued to the substructure at the steel  box beams, so you will have to break it off and chisel off the remaining glue and busted fiberglass. You will also encounter the insulation board, just chisel it away.
 I used carburetor cleaner spray, just spray the carb cleaner on the insulation board and it will melt away ( make sure your not under the melting insulation board and there is nothing flammable around the fumes).
 
Its like an autopsy, you need to get everything out of the way and make a good analysis of what you see and where you might have to expand the search to, or stop.

Lon and Cheryl,

Thanks for the detail. That is great. I will be getting into this in the coming months. For now, I am just doing some minor exploration and I'll repair it as soon as possible. I will make sure to monitor water and be sure there are no leaks whatsoever from now on. You have eased my mind a bit about exploring via cutting the fiberglass.

Bob_B, ah. I thought I was going nuts. I have replaced the tank.

Thanks

Next time somebody builds a new bottom frame I wonder if he can build 2 ,one extra for the forum.

When I was doing DOT work building bumper reinforcements and door beams, I first made a jig so once the saw cut the tubes to length and angles, I just laid the pieces in the jig and snapped the welding clamps shut. The same could easily be done for the FT sub-frame with extensions for the 40 footer and mods for the 34. I cut the pieces ahead of time so the process went quickly and since the welding clamps were welded on to the jig, each item was finished in assembly line speed. With the sub-frame parts cut, it could be welded up in no more than 2 hours. Tabs could be welded on so a multi section belly pan could be fitted allowing easy access instead of the big pan we have today. I had a couple of retired shipyard welders working but I started with only myself.

The sub-frame could be sent out for galvanizing or primed and then painted so the problem would be gone forever.

Most everything I have today is thanks to a Miller wire feed, HF 64 1/2" saw, HF drill press with Jacobs chuck and a few assorted tools. Just put a new power switch on the Miller, the only repair to it in 50 years.

The only problem would be transportation as the width and length would require a small trailer to ship. I filled a horse trailer with PA antiques back in the '70s and had no space for a player piano but found a big rig deadheading back to Los Angeles that loaded and delivered it to a dock for less than $100.

Pierce