Foretravel Owners' Forum

I see where Mike has posted part numbers for helper springs and slide pins for disc brakes on a 320 and 295, are the kit numbers the same for a 270?

I would imagine the manual doesn't specify other than those.

I Imagine the same Bruce but if it can go wrong!!! I don't have anything sticking but thinking of pm.

Dub,

Yes those will work on the 270 also.  Those springs fit all ADB-1560 brakes on Foretravels that have disc brakes.

Mike

Thanks Brother.

If you get the slide puller from Harbor Freight the rod on the puller is the same thread as the slide pin.

3/8-16 thread. I helped recently on a coach that had lower seized brake pins. Ended up buying 3/8-16 grade 8 allthread and making a slide hammer. Probably five pounds  slide. (Big) was quite a battle using propane torch never exceeding 450 degrees, Kroil to quench with to draw in and freeze spray to shrink pin. Couple days later while drive our coach I found myself complaining of my right hand hurting. Slide hammer probably bruised it internally. Was fine couple weeks later. Took many heat and quench cycles to finally free both pins and remove. Annual slide pin preventive maintenance would prevent this and corrosion pitting on the pins were exposed. Dub stop by the house and I'll give you a hand. Just dont plan to do in one day.
Scott

Generous offer Scott but I think I will give it a go here before our Jan trip to Quartzite. I can't handle the 1 in air yet because of shoulder still healing with a 2 lb limit lift but I have a man that I can get to come by the shop and handle the heavy. This will be a first for me beyond lubing and brake adj on a meritor but my gut is telling me to get this done. Sure hope we don't run into the seized pin issue but I wont be suprised. We should get it done during December.

Start spraying the pins now.

CAREFUL.  Don't get lube or penetrating oil on the pads or disks if you are reusing them.

Only need to spray lower pins anyway. Upper pins are protected from the road spray better.

My coach does not have helper springs,nor do I think they were ever on it. Do I require them and do they actually offer some benefits??

The more you drive and use the brakes, the less you need them.  They do exactly what they were designed to do-- assist the "lazy side" brake pad to retract from the brake disk.

If your brakes are not dragging, you might wait until your next brake/slide pin inspection.

In other words, I feel they are a worthwhile upgrade.

Peter,
1. No, BUT
2. Yes they help to move the caliper back to center after brake is released.  Doing this can help extend pad life.

Mike

Peter, for me, I would not have my coach without helper springs, period.

My coach, my choice.  Do what is best for you.

As I have mentioned before on this subject, I felt the same as those above comments, until I spoke with Paul Yasbeck the FT tech in Leesburg Fl.

I had Paul do a complete brake job on ours two years ago. He replaced all the pads and turned/resurfaced all the rotors. New slide pins were needed and replaced all wheel bearings and seals. I asked him to install the helper springs while doing this and he didn't recommend it and preferred not to unless I insisted. I relied on his knowledge and went with his suggestion.

Just mentioned this to let you know that there are some knowledgeable techs who don't recommend using them. I believe Brett made a good point, if the coach is driven often the springs arent really needed. They do help the "lazy side" move away from the rotor but do just the opposite for the other side according to Paul Y.

He is available to call and can explain his opinion on this much better than I can.

Paul Yasbeck
 (813) 382-0869

Justin, the weight of the caliper, pads and brake can hang off the two pins. Its not balanced or unloaded. The more they are exercised the better. With the road vibrations helping to retract while under way. I see no down side to the springs. I do see advantages IMO. Any time a manufacturer can save some money they will. The springs as I recall are way over priced ($12.50 each) and cost of production is literally pennies. Brake pads crazy expensive ($90 each) but if maintained will last a very long time. Filling the area were the pins do not move in the mount with anti seize will promote better removal during preventative maintenance and cleaning. But this will also reduce future pad and disc replacement reducing profits. Worth the investment IMO for the springs. The caliper with the spring cans weigh even more and live almost there entire life locked against the disc with the parking brake set. (Helper springs collapsed) Get occasionally released for a few miles and reset. DWMYH
Scott

Paul's opinion on it was, is, that while pushing one side away from the rotor it pulls the other side to the rotor thus causing the other side to drag.  ( this is the way that I understood his description anyway and would prefer that he explain it ) he felt if kept properly maintained and clean that the normal movement and vibration while underway was the best option. He didn't feel the "cost" of the springs was significant enough to not be used by the OEM.
He felt they caused more wear on the opposite side.

All that being said.... I don't know, not a air brake expert by any means. Some of y'all have extensive experience with air disc brakes and I don't doubt your expertise. Just wanted to express that there must be pros and cons to using them other than cost.

One more reason for my choice is the springs are a Meritor product for Meritor brakes.  Again my choice as I am aware of many coaches operating with no springs.  All the best.

There should be a few coaches out there that have had brake jobs done with existing helper springs installed.    Maybe they'll chime in on the condition of pads, rotors, calipers and springs and how many miles. 

  I know that we had brake work done after the springs were installed but that  was before I had installed the Allison joy stick. 
  I really struggled with braking in the mountains before.      But now I really try to use and abuse the meritor brakes on the flat and in the city.


    I would imagine just going SLOWER down the mountain would have prevented previous brake issues.    But, live n learn.  Few coach bucks later.

25 years, 150,000+ miles driven, all brake pads are original. One day, when in MOT shop where we could hang out with tech, saw one side brake pad looked worn and asked pads to be replaced.

Parts department sent out new pads and I had the surprise to note that one side of the new pads had less thickness than the other and that both the original worn pads and the new pads measured about the same. So, the new pads went back to Parts and we did not change brake pads.

Probably with cleaning, replacing few pitted brake slide pins, lubing slide pins with Corrosion X, then wiping it dry, and using transmission retarder kept the brake pads from wearing very much. Regular proper lubrication & purging caliper helps, and rotors are also looking good and original. We always had a thin black cable tie around each of the brake zerk grease fitting to help that they are never accidently greased by any tech that may be greasing front suspension.

We later added brake springs.

Barry you can see the difference in the thickness in the photo I posted. The previous owner had the dragging brakes. The replacement new pads other than the worn out one were the same thickness as the replacement. Thin on inside thick on outside. There is a vibration dampener on the outside of the pads and mine were all damaged when I replaced the other three also. I carry the one good pad incase someone on the road needs it. Would easily get you home. The outside pads are both thicker and smaller in area of the pad. I'm sure you could also cut down the pad on the mill for other emergency spares

"Probably with cleaning, replacing few pitted brake slide pins, lubing slide pins with Corrosion X, then wiping it dry, and using transmission retarder kept the brake pads from wearing very much. Regular proper lubrication & purging caliper helps, and rotors are also looking good and original. We always had a thin black cable tie around each of the brake zerk grease fitting to help that they are never accidently greased by any tech that may be greasing front suspension."

I wish there was a video of this. Maybe we can make one, I'll do the work, stop by and show me how :-)

If the corrosion X seeps in where you can't see the pin,great but why wipe it off,we have been using the dry teflon spray for years,no problems,and if you grease the coach yourself you don't need the ties.

I hope it's not to late to respond to this but I would like to be more clear on this zerk that doesn't need greased. Are you saying it's a zerk for the slide pins and needs a different grease? Is the grease Corrosion X? Or are you lubing the pins with dry Teflon spray ?

MM,

1. No. The that is being talked about is for the area in the caliper that has the gears that moves the caliper.
2. either will work for the pins
In the media section there are a couple of copies of the 4m brake book that has a better explanation with diagrams. I will post a link later (Unless as someone beats me to it) as I have to run.

Mike

Here you go,

Lubing the pins with the dry slide,to me the x will collect dust etc.,the zerk on the caliper is for the clay based grease,as said
before if your lubing yourself why put a zip tie on it?

FT parts stocks them. Get them

Springs can be bought for half the price some places in Texas charge. I bought mine thru Freightliner truck parts for exactly 1/2 the price.