I haven't started my coach for about 4 months. I was going to take it somewhere today and it wouldn't start.
It was at first very slow in turning the engine then the starter just clicked. The battery reads 13.5 on my meter. But could it
still be bad.
I checked the voltage on the starter (the large starter wire) and it was 13.5. I tried to get a reading on the smaller wire as someone was trying to start it, but it read 3. 2.. That doesn't sound right. Shouldn't either be zero or the same as the larger wire.
I know there is a relay on the firewall but I'm not sure which one.
I started the generator with no problem as I was trying to get a little more juice for the battery.
I think there is a relay in the front also in front of the passenger seat but I'm not sure which one.
Is a relay either good or bad (It seems as though there is a current or no current). Not a partial current.
Attached is a picture of the relays on the firewall. Does anyone know which one goes to the starter.
Thanks
Classic symptoms of low cranking voltage (weak batteries) or inadequate starting current (loose or corroded battery cable connections).
Did you try turning on the BOOST switch with your generator running and your inverter/battery charger turned ON?
On my coach the starter relay is a solenoid that looks the same as the boost solenoid.
What Chuck said.
Clean the start battery cables at the battery and starter.
I took the little cable off of the starter and cleaned it (it had a blue corrosive color to it). But that didn't help (although it seemed like it tried to turn over better. The larger cables seemed good.
I think I will take one battery off and take it to an auto parts store. I think they can do a load test. The battery terminals
look good with no acid residue.
I will let you know.
Thanks,
Rick
How cold is it where you are?
We are in Florida. It has been a little chilly at night. Maybe high 60's at night.
I had the aqua hot on in the AM to get the engine warm.
I recommend load testing individually each of the start batteries. It is a pain in the neck but you can get fooled by multiple start batteries. Mine showed good voltage but one of two utterly failed the load test.
When starting the engine bad batteries, a bad starter or poor cables or connections can cause
a huge voltage drop. Also did you try the boost like Chuck suggested.
18360, try cranking then immediately go put your hand on your battery cable connections, both h +and -. Including the starter connections. If you find one warm that's a sign of poor connections or cable. Quick field check.
I bought a battery load tester from Harbor Freight. Was not that expensive and way easier then taking batteries out and having to reinstall if they check out good.
This is the one I got. It works good on 12V batteries but found out it does not work on 6v batteries.
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-automotive-battery-analyzer-66892.html
They also have cheaper ones that will do both 6V & 12V
Measure voltage on AUX Start solenoid located on isolator panel. The small connector gets 12v when ignition switch is turned to 'start' position. One large terminal gets 12v from start battery, other large terminal sends 12v to small terminal on starter mounted solenoid when the AUX Start solenoid small terminal has 12v.
To crank engine, you could put 12v on small AUX Start solenoid to bypass the ignition switch and neutral-start relay mounted on front dash 12 panel. You could also touch a jumper between large terminals on AUX Start solenoid.
If you hear a click but no turn over- battery ground is loose.
Too many unknowns. Your second sentence wold indicate a discharged battery, but the voltage reading tells us otherwise: But is there some sort of battery maintainer running providing electricity? "I" would start by taking a battery terminal brush to the battery posts and connectors bringing back that fresh lead shine.
Regarding "the small wire," I believe that your describing the wire to the starter solenoid, the 3.2V measurement indicates a bad connection between where you measured the voltage and the negative terminal on the battery. The coil in the starter solenoid doesn't take much current so the resistance may not be very much. There's math.
The voltage readings that will mean something is the voltage at the starter terminal, the big connection on the starter itself, while the engine is being cranked. Then a measurement from that connection to ground, again while cranking the engine.
Well, I took one battery up to the auto store. It was fully charged but it was dead. I got 3 Optima Red Top Batteries. On my coach it is really easy to take the old ones out and install the new ones. I read the literature. It said to attach the positive on the first battery first then attach the negative on the last battery. So that is what I did, and it worked out fine.
After installing the batteries, the coach started right up. The batteries that were in there apparently, were just regular car batteries.
They were 7 years old.
Nothing like the sound of a purring diesel engine. (And the aqua hot for that matter).
Thanks
When checking voltage is with the starter turning is what gives the answer how the batteries
are.
STILL.. clean the terminals at the batteries. Even though there is no visible corrosion they need to be shined lead. I do that every year for regular terminal and cable maintenance.
7 years on three car batteries is pretty phenomenal I guess you could say. When my optima batteries died I went with Odyssey AGM batteries instead. Instead of three batteries I only needed two. I had to reconfigure the battery box a little bit and well should have had it welded, I didn't have access to one at the time and I went with bolting it together works great. I have never worried since then about my coach not starting.
Until of course it doesn't.
I think pretty much without putting a voltmeter on just cranking and hearing that sound tells you pretty much one of two things. The batteries aren't able to provide any type of load or the connections are bad. If you try to jump it from the battery terminals and the same thing happens now you know that it's your connections to the starter.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a panel when you opened your engine compartment that gave you access to measuring all those kinds of things? I'm sure somebody a lot smarter than me can come up with something like that.
Now make sure you have some kind of trickle charger to keep your batteries from discharging while sitting again. Protect your investment.
You should add a trick-L-Charge for the start batteries to keep the voltage up, engine batteries are only charged when the engine is running and the engine computer is constantly using power when the engine is off,
Three months is a long time for the batteries to remain charged
Having a similar starting problem,went to start before the zero degree hit us,heard a brief click sound then nothing,when I turn the key now I get nothing and the trans keypad does not light up,hooked to shore power and all batteries charged,will do more checks
in a couple of days,trying to get thru the zero degrees,when I tried to start it was in the 40's,wonder if a solenoid went bad,will get
the diagrams out and look,any ideas?
First guess: Check the ignition solenoid (located IIRC on your coach behind the removable panel in front of passenger seat).
See first post in thread linked below:
Need dash solenoid I'd please (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32183)
Yup, anytime the chassis battery is 12+ VDC and turning the key elicits none of the normal responses (Allison shift pad doesn't illuminate, gauges don't come up, dash HVAC fan doesn't work) the IGNITION SOLENOID is high on the suspect list.
Giving it a sharp, light rap may temporarily put it back among the living.
And, the work-around is super simple-- merely remove the wires from one large lug and ADD THEM to the other large lug. Disconnect to turn off ignition!
Heck, I used to use "percussion persuasion" way back in the late 50s on starter solenoids. Still a good emergency option today.
Will check that today,then give feedback.
Ignition solenoid is on the isolator panel,tested and both big lug terminals have voltage,diconnected cables from start batteries
and am in the process of cleaning the ends,have a new cole hearse solenoid in hand.
Are you sure you are looking at the IGNITION solenoid? In most coaches, the ignition solenoid is located up at the front of the coach, either in the dash area in front of driver or behind the removable panel in front of passenger seat.
On the isolator panel, the big solenoids are usually either the AUX START solenoid, or the BOOST solenoid.
The BOOST solenoid has voltage on both big lug terminals all the time. One side is start battery voltage - the other side is coach battery voltage.
Will pull the drawings out tomorrow and double check,maybe the one I checked with both voltagese was the boost solenoid,
will look harder up front for a solenoid,thanks.We have our specific schematic from when we attended the driving school.
Sad to say, Trik-L-Start and Amp-L-Start are no longer in production.
LSL Products / LSLProducts.com - Problem-Solving Gear & Gadgets (https://www.lslproducts.net/)
When you find the starter solenoid David, tell where it is because I don't see one in the front of the coach. Kick cover and under the raise up portion of the dash. I have 2 on the isolator panel at rear of the coach like you. I thought one of those 2 would be the starter solenoid. For others, David and I have the same year and make coach. 96... 270.
Dub,
In reply #20 I posted a link to a thread with photos of the ignition solenoid in a 1997 U270. I would think your '96 U270 models would be similar...
Repeating - See first post in thread linked below:
Need dash solenoid I'd please (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32183)
Instead of the single solenoid shown in photo, there might be two black plastic relays mounted in the same place. If so, they perform the same function, but the ignition powered circuits are divided between them.
Will look again in morning,but we don't have a solenoid in that area.
If you don't find the single round metal IGNITION solenoid shown in the photo I linked to up above, then the alternative setup is
two black plastic Bosch HD relays. These two relays are pictured in the first post in the thread linked below. AFAIK the transition from a single ignition solenoid to the dual relays happened around the 1998-99 model year. I have never heard of any other type of setup.
Ignition solenoid on a u320 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34272)
Will check for those and give some feedback.
Just checked,have the same exact ones as in post 31,will get some ordered.
While you wait for replacements, it should be easy to check those relays with a multimeter. Looking at the photo in Reply #31:
On each relay, there is one large terminal with red cables connected. This terminal should be hot (12V) all the time.
There is another large terminal with black wire connected. This terminal should only be hot when the ignition switch is ON.
NOTE: I might have the two large terminals backwards. The black wire might be hot all the time, and the red wire hot only with ignition switch ON. Should be obvious which way it works once you start checking with multimeter.
The third (smaller) terminal has a white wire connected. This terminal should only be hot when the ignition switch is ON.
Hard to see in the photo, but there is probably a 4th (smaller) terminal with a green wire connected. This is the ground wire.
With multimeter, check the terminals (on each relay) with the ignition switch OFF, then turn ignition switch ON and check again.
If both relays function as described above, then they are OK, and your starting problem lies elsewhere.
I think this is the appropriate wiring diagram for those Bosch relays. If so, then I did have the two big terminals reversed. The black wire (terminal 30) should be hot all the time. The red wire (terminal 87) should be hot only with ignition ON. 86 is the white wire, and 85 is the green wire.
Finished cleaning start battery terminals and started checking relays,they checked good so tried to start,started right up,could have been banging on the relay when taking off the wall but think it was probably the ground terminals,found the relays at
Texas industrial electric,in San Antonio,the part number on the old relay is,0 332 002 150 which supercedes to 0 332 002 168,
price is 64.50,only difference I can see is the new one has a resistor,will order 2 for spares,thanks for the help especially Chuck,
owe you some engine work,and yes the black wire is the hot one.
Percussion persuasion, Dave, percussion persuasion!! (like I said) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Good information from Chuck, since we have you cornered maybe you can say what the 2 silver solenoids near the isolator are, i'm assuming one is the isolator solenoid so that leaves one that for me is unidentified. Again, 96 270. I can't find the answer on Beam alarm but it's probably there somewhere.
I think the two solenoids on the isolator panel are for the boost and the remote start.
One is the boost solenoid for sure,larger wires on both ends and both always hot.
Makes sense Doug.
Dub,
I don't know what you mean by "isolator solenoid" ??
On older coaches, if there is two silver solenoids on the isolator panel then one is the BOOST solenoid and the other is the AUX START solenoid.
John44 has positively identified one of his solenoids as being the BOOST solenoid. That leaves the other one to identify. If it is in fact the AUX START solenoid, then the test is to check the two large terminal posts with a multimeter. With ignition switch OFF one large terminal should be hot and the other large terminal should
not be hot. Leaving the test lead on the
not hot terminal, have someone turn the ignition key to the START position, and look for 12V on the terminal. If you do see 12V (and the engine cranks over) then you have identified the AUX START solenoid.
However, the wiring diagram linked below seems to indicate that on the model years being discussed here, the factory installed a Bosch relay to perform the AUX START function (in place of the round steel solenoid). You can see this relay on the diagram excerpt below in the top left corner of the area marked by the dotted line.
So if you guys have two round steel solenoids on your isolator panels, I guess for some reason they are set up like the older coaches. Either way works fine!
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=3297
Thanks Chuck. I've not had solenoid issues YET but while the subject was open it's a good time for pre school and bookmark for when it happens.