As many of you in the lower 48 are seeing in the weather forecasts, next week is going to bring a big cold front south. I am parked and plugged in at an RV park in Austin, Texas. Our forecast is saying three nights of lows of 27 degrees with highs back up to the low 40s.
I don't THINK I need to go through a complete winterization process with pink anti freeze and the works (with the furnace, heat strips and water heater turned on while I am plugged in the 50 amps), but I'd like to hear any real life stories from you experienced Foretravel owners. How low can temps get and you would start to get worried?
1999 U270 Forty foot, no slides. (New to me this year)
No aqua hot, just a regular water heater.
Mid 20s here in New Mexico, but we have an Aqua Hot. No shore power.
On our previous coaches, we put a small heater in the water bay and were fine in the mid to low 20s.
A space heater might be too aggressive, maybe a heat panel, electric blanket, etc.
I have spent longer in colder weather in a Grand Designs 5th wheel. You'll be fine. Even without an AH, you're in a far superior rig than that POS.
If anything, I would be more concerned about rodent proofing your rig... all those little critters are going to be looking for a warm place to hunker down.
Going on 9 years owning our coach - never went through the "winterization" pink stuff routine. In the winter months our coach is parked right outside our house in the driveway, no cover or barn, but always plugged into 50A. My standard winter setup is as follows:
1. Two small 110V thermostatically controlled electric heaters, one at each end of the wet bay. I set them to come on at about 60 degrees so they get ahead of the curve when the temps start to drop.
2. Four small 110V thermostatically controlled electric heaters inside the coach. One in the bathroom, one under the table in the kitchen, one on the floor in front of the driver seat (keeps the Allison ECU warm), and one on the dash blowing toward the windshield (reduces condensation on glass). They are all set to maintain about 60 degrees.
3. We have the two factory propane heaters in our coach - one in the bedroom and one in the living room. I leave them turned on all winter with the thermostats turned down as low as possible (about 50 degrees). These are my backup heaters in case the interior electric heaters are not keeping up, and also in case grid power fails. (The electric heaters in the wet bay are not powered by the inverter).
4. I leave the water heater (110V electric element) turned on all the time. It adds a little heat to the wet bay. I also keep the fresh water tank about half full. The water gets warm during mild weather, and during cold spells it acts like a big passive heat radiator to help maintain the warmth in the wet bay.
This setup has worked just fine for Texas winters, even during the Big Freeze of 2021 when grid power to our house was down for several days. We moved into the coach, ran the generator as necessary, and were perfectly comfortable in the near-zero temps. I have a thermometer inside the coach with remote sensors in both ends of the wet bay and in the big central storage bay. With outside temps in the low teens our wet bay stays around 60 degrees.
This works for us! Others will have different routines according to how they use their coaches.
I read these posts and am jealous of you good folks in the south.
In Alberta Canada this Tuesday forecast -32f low and -18f high!!!
Not a problem. If your propane tank is full, you have nothing to worry about. Your Foretravel will handle nighttime temps in the mid 20s with ease.
We and many others use Lasko MyHeat Personal 200-watt Space Heaters to keep bay areas from reaching freezing temps in some out of the way spaces.
Also, good to have these heaters for backup in AquaHot coaches. Propane furnaces can not be counted on to heat all places where water lines are located in bay areas. Also furnace only heats bays when it is running to heat inside of coach. Without remote wireless thermometers, life is running blind and have no idea how cold bay areas are.
200-watt heaters are desirable for minimal 120v amp usage, small size, and they do not get hot enough to burn any nearby material.
We used 4 Lasko's in our bay areas, each with a large pieced of Reflectix foil insulation and wireless thermometer just inside door. Never a problem over 20-years traveling the US & Canada, where never winterized coach.
Spent a few below zero temps in Yellowstone and survived. No issues! Did disconnect the water hose from outside faucet and coach. Aqua Hot kept it nice and comfy at any temps we wanted in coach. Happy wife, happy life!
-7 F is the coldest that I've been in my coach and I'm sure it would handle it a lot colder.
I was dry camping.
Coldest I've been was 10 degrees in ElPaso . Propane furnace and heater in the bay no problem. I'm sure aqua hot is fine but I've never had any issue with propane as it blows in the bay as well.
If you're concerned about the wet days get a remote Bluetooth thermometer. Put one on each side and you'll have a good idea from inside the coach what the temps are like down there. It just has to be above freezing it doesn't have to be very warm. Make it too warm and it will make for a warm place for the local rodent population. I think the coldest I've been and now has probably been between 5 and 8 degrees Fahrenheit. The aquahot handles it fantastically but of course always wondering what would happen if the aquahot gives out. I have no propane in the coach anymore so it would have to go with electrically operated things in which case I would just put a 60 or 70 watt incandescent light bulb in each side of the Wet bay plugged in in a couple small electric heaters inside the coach.
My air conditioners don't have heat strips in them but are heat pumps but after things get below 43 degrees Fahrenheit it doesn't work too well. So you can't rely on those. But in the five years or so of ownership I've never had to winterize since I'm living in it. If I was not going to be living in it I would winterize it. Why take the chance? Repairing broken PEX lines that are in places that are hard to access will be no fun. Replacing a manoblock, or even worse yet having to replace a water tank better to winterize if you're not absolutely sure. At least that's my recommendation.
Best winterization method I found is going south.
I'm looking at 14 this coming morning here in Albuquerque. Lasco 200 watt in water heater bay and wet bay on well pump thermostat. Propane furnace running. Lithium batteries have a holding tank heating pad. Remote temperature sensors in all critical areas. This will be one of my coldest nights. More to come while visiting our son and grandchildren.
You need to use the furnace and make sure the thermostat is turned up in the manifold compartment if you have one. My 270 was a long time ago now. The 320s handle with the Aquahot really well. If it gets really cold I sometimes run a small heater in the water bay.
We live year round in a U225. 27F for a few hours is nothing, just leave both furnaces running. In ours, the bedroom furnace heats the wet bay. If it helps you sleep better a small electric heater in the wet bay gives you belt and suspenders confidence.
There is a dividing line between the haves and the have nots. The U320 have a full home style diesel fuel'd hydronic heating system, that use forced hot water through toe kick heaters and individual heating zones, and as such the U320s have a thermostat controlled heater in the wet bay. The rest of us use propane fuel'd forced hot air furnaces and a bathroom door, with a duct to feed heat to the wet bay, so the warmer you are, the warmer are the tanks.
Thoroughly tongue i cheek this morning,
Art
If staying in a RV park with 50A hookup (as stated by the TurboXK in first post) it makes more sense (IMO) to utilize electric space heaters rather than the factory installed propane heaters. Why burn expensive propane when you are already paying for the electricity as part of your campground fee? Plus, electric heaters are MUCH less noisy and provide more even coverage of the whole coach interior. If your bed partner likes the sleeping area to be cool (or cold), the last thing you need is the bedroom propane heater cycling (on and off, on and off, on and off.......) all night long just to protect the wet bay from freezing.
At least that's how I see it...
Warm air will stratify up near the ceiling and cold air down by the floor.
We have found that we are so much more comfortable if we have a small 4" or 6" 12V fan hung up near the ceiling and blowing towards the back of the coach. We don't run the bedroom furnace and even if we just have a very small electric heater up front the DW will comment that the bedroom is "kinda" warm. So I have to either close a door partway or redirect the fan.
Either way, if you are not using the coach heating system, open all your lower cabinets and compartments where something could freeze. Especially under your sinks and shower.
The lower cabinets (usually) have your water lines in the back of the cabinets, right against outside walls.
In our case we've made our home base in a $100/month trailer park and we pay for the electricity. That being said, here in south eastern Georgia the outside air temperature is forecast to dip into the mid 20s briefly next week. I'm looking forward to watching the locals panic over the big freeze, remembering New England homes where certain doors need be open, others closed, and a fan blowing air under the kitchen sink, through open doors because someone had the bright idea to place the plumbing on the north wall of the house.
I'll throw a bucket over the outside tap for the night.
I forgot something.
If it is going to freeze and stay cold for more than overnight I recommend disconnecting your water hose--if you leave it hooked up to the coach AND a faucet supply. Also let the supply faucet drip--slowly--while it is cold out.
In Texas, the water lines are buried real shallow so freezing is likely to happen with a prolonged cold spell below 32*
Living in a coach takes planning. I have been living and camping in RVs since the 60s and the
coldest was -30F in a camper and it was comfortable. In the 70s I bought a small class C and
some of the things I did to winterize it, Vanguard saw what I had done when I went in for warrantee
work and put them in the next years winter package. Find the weak places for insulation. One of
foretravel weakness is the wet bay hatches. The right side is really easy and because of the hinge
mechanism is harder for the left side. Having the wet bay heat coming from the bedroom would
not work for me as I keep the bedroom cold. Another thing is driving, a big wind chill factor. When
I had the Monaco I had three heaters running off the engine. One in the wet bay and 2 in the coach.
Don't go thinking we don't get cold snaps down here in Dixie, last year we had 24 in of snow in 36 hrs and after the sky cleared got down to -5 . True it was 65 the next week but during the few days your toy's better be inside or something done.
Most likely you don't need to do anything. We are just up the road from you, near Temple, where we have stayed the last couple winters. I have had nights when it got down to 27-28 but I didn't expect it to get that cold, so I didn't do anything. The coach has been fine. Normally I run small heaters in the wet bay just to be safe. Two years ago it got down as low as 5 and all I had was the little heaters in the wet bays and two electric heaters inside, except when the power went out and I switched temporarily to propane. Everything was fine.
I just drain all lines with pressurized air and add antifreeze to the drain lines.
Question to you Grand Villa owners regarding outside weather beating hardware. My unit has bold-rope track along the roof to wall seam the length of the exterior both passenger and driver sides. Is this for installing an awning or roof covering for rain/snow?
TY
ML
I'm not clear what it is you are asking about. Can you describe in more detail, or post a photo?
AFAIK all GV models have a drip rail (rain gutter) that runs the length of the coach along the edge of the roof on both sides, but it sounds like you may be asking about something different?
During the 2021 freeze we were in Nac, it was COLD!
A 60 watt bulb (incandescent, rough service type) in the wet bay, remote temp sensor never went below 38.
'93 GV - no Aqua Hot.
We have been on the road dry camping in our U240 at least a night or 2 when it got below 0*F. We were in Kanab, UT at an RV park a couple of years ago and it didn't get above freezing during the day. No problems at all. The furnaces kept everything warm. The front furnace had a duct to the wet bay and the rear furnace had a duct down on the other end of the tanks.
Frank & Connie, Before we found 200-watt Lasko heater, we started with several incandescent bulbs, then found cages to go around these bulbs. Bulbs are very dangerous in that they get very hot and any combustible material that finds it way to touching bulb could cause a fire. One can never be sure that things don't move around and there is no guarantee the bulb will keep away from things.
We consider incandescent bulbs dangerous. 200-watt heater do not get hot enough to be dangerous.
Good safety measures for sure!
I use a small ceramic heater in conjunction with a thermostatic outlet for my wet bay. The heater has tip-over protection so if you forget about it and take off, you've got a bit of protection.
Heater: Amazon.com: Amazon Basics 500-Watt Ceramic Small Space Personal Mini Heater... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MX8VN5)
Thermostatic outlet: Amazon.com : Feekoon Cold Weather Thermostatically Controlled Outlet On at... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09KMWTBLS)
When parked at home I use the Aqua-hot on electric to heat the wet bay and one electric
heater to keep the motor home set on the low setting. That's good down to 14F
Went out a check the coach and the electric part of the Aqua-hot is not working so for now it is
on diesel. It is 19F right now and it will remain cold for a couple more days and then it will get
back to normal which is rain. I will trouble shoot it when it's warmer. When it's freezing out I
like to check the coach every day.
Peter
I did not know you could heat the wet bays ONLY with the electric side on only. This means I could turn off all heating IN the coach and it would still just heat the bays right?
Not Peter but,
Yes you can turn the inside thermostat off and still have the basement thermostat turned to a decent temp. and the A/H running on the electric element will heat the 2 basement radiators. NOW the electric element is only about 1650 or so watts in your age A/H. This will limit the amount of heat you will have available for use. So in bitter cold you could also turn on the diesel to make sure you don't run out of stored energy.
Mike
I used to keep the bathroom and the wet bay heated with the electric Aqua-hot but this
year I'm just using it for the wet bay. I think 1650 watts should be more than enough but
checking on it every day is a good idea as I don't winterize as I use the coach all winter.
Peter's AH issue is why 3 or 4 Lasco 200-watt heaters are a life saver in cold weather. Having freeze protection is important as a frozen pipe or Aqua Hot boiler could cost much more than the cost of 4 Lasco heaters.
Good thread, I have learned that 2 people are within an hour of me in ATX!
As I read through this, it is really 2 threads ongoing-
1- How do you handle cold weather on a coach that is parked/stored
2- How do you handle cold weather when the coach is actively used, either at a park or driving.
The first has been covered a considerable amount on here from my searching and time on this forum, so I won't address that.
The second I have not seen as much, and I would like to know more about this. If you are driving in a cold area, either passing thru or perhaps you are living FT and in a park, if you keep the coach warm enough for the occupants inside by whatever means (electric heater, gennie running, propane, AH), will that be enough to keep the basement area warm? I know the propane has vents to the basement and assume the AH has the same? (IDK since I have never seen how the AH works/vents, so someone can chime in as I am curious about that). But if you use electric heater, either the standalone Lasko types or the roof HVAC, will the warm air in the living quarters be enough to keep the underside from freezing? I think it is realistic to assume people will be at a RV park with an electric connection would not use their propane/diesel, unless the electric methods could not keep the basement warm. Specific concerns are all of the tanks/plumbing.
I supposed some wireless temp sensors underneath would be helpful to monitor. I have 2 and been waiting for some time before giving a review on both. Of course, YMMV.
1- Amazon.com: ORIA Indoor Outdoor Thermometer, Digital Hygrometer Thermometer,... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HVLXXXF) On recommendations of others, I got this last year. It works but the range is not as long as I would like. It struggles to go through numerous walls at 40 feet (coach>outside of house>2 inner walls). I have had to get up and go to the window of the house closest to the FT and wait for it connect. Not ideal at 3AM and takes several tries. I would not recommend this unless you will be in the coach with it.
2- I recently got this from Ambient, it works great, much longer range than the above. No issues as all. It also has an audible alarm when it reaches a certain temp that you set, mine is set to 36F. As you may know, Ambient is a leader in weather stations and it says it can do 100 feet. My only (minor) gripe is the monitor is not backlit, so in the dark it needs light. I just use my phone for a second in the middle of the night. Robot or human? (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ambient-Weather-WS-10-Wireless-Indoor-Outdoor-8-Channel-Thermo-Hygrometer-with-Three-Remote-Sensors/508259181)
The only time I'm plugged in is at home, so if it is freezing I normally have the Aqua-hot on electric
and a electric heater or two inside. The Aqua-hot heats with hot water and in the wet bay there are
heaters that run off a thermostat that is on the passengers side of the wet bay. When on the road
I set the bedroom thermostat at 55 degrees and I keep that door closed except driving. The bathroom
I keep at 70 degrees all the time and when I'm out or sleeping I keep the main area at 55 degrees and
when I'm in the coach I have it comfortable. The Aqua-hot gets heated by the engine.
When I had a Monaco I put in 3 heaters that ran off engine heat. On in the wet bay and 2 in the coach
and that kept everything warm. With out that I would have kept the propane heat around 70 degrees
so things wouldn't freeze up. When driving you have wind chill factor to worry about. I do a lot of extra
insulation to help from freezing.
Jason,
1. Yes except if you use space heaters inside as there is no real way to circulate heat in the basement.
2. No the A/H has at lesst 2 radiators and fans in the basement to heat it seperatly from the inside.
3. I doubt it, refer to #1 as there is no real air circulation to the basement except through the coaches with propane heaters.
Mike
Found the problem with electric of the Aqua-hot. The terminal going on the thermistor is burnt off.