Well I'll have to put the AC on hold for now. I'm sitting on the side of interstate 25 just north of Raton. Something on the driveline broke right as a I crested the climb. Luckily I was able to coast to a halfway decent spot on the highway to pull over. Sitting here now waiting on a tow truck to haul me to Denver. I'm holding my breath on how many coach bucks this is gonna cost. 😭
If it is just a U joint/drive shift issue, you certainly don't need to go all the way back to Denver. Truck shops in Raton or Trinidad should certainly be able to take care of you.
Transmission or engine-- you would need to check.
Russ Miller had a U-joint break and he lost the whole drive shaft. Took about a week to get a new drive shaft built as he couldn't find the broken one. Mark Crick put a lot of time and effort into getting the specs together so the shop could build the new shaft.
As a side note it was found that a certain factory repair shop where Russ always had his service done never lubed that slip joint and U-joints over a period of years because he never specifically asked them to! Just changed the oil, filters and lubed the chassis.
So sad.
Here is a short summary. Crested the above mentioned climb. Noticed the engine revved and let off the throttle. It was in 3rd gear. Looked down and the transmission indicator, showed 6 over 1. 6 available currently in 1st. Speedometer showed 10mph. I was doing about 30 when all this happened. Coasted down to the first available place to pull off the highway. Heard a thump thump thump from the rear of the coach until I stopped. Engine temp 195. Trans temp 200. No lights on the dash. No warnings on the vmc spec. I let it cool for 5 minutes and shut it down. Went back and checked for leaks. Nothing. Checked the oil. Normal. Cranked it backed up to check transmission fluid level. Normal. Put it in gear and felt nothing. But the speedometer was showing about 5mph. Put it back into neutral and walked back and looked under the coach and the driveshaft is slowly rotating. Something obviously broke. If it was a U-Joint I don't think the driveshaft would rotate like it did. I thought these big truck differentials were pretty much bullet proof. Maybe not. We sat for 12 hours waiting on coach-net to find a tow and a shop that would work on it. It's in Denver now. I'll report on what they find. I've been staying close to home. This was our first big adventure. We are planning on full timing for a while next year when I retire. I'm hoping it's not always going to be this exciting and expensive. 😂
If you broke a pinyon in that rear end would sure be rare but it could happen. Most likely if something in the differential broke it was from a bad casting or heat treating as it is unlikely you would be able to thrash that rear end like some in oil field equipment that get broke. You may have just broke an axle at the spline which is more common. If that happens getting the broke end out is always a challenge.
Mike
Brett, how about breaking the coach drivetrain failure into a new thread and get it out of the AC thread. I will be interesting to see what the failure really was and would help in the future with someone searching.
Both axles need to be pulled especially if there is damage in the rear end. One axle out and the spider gears are going to be spinning. If towing MH's is his specialty he needs to get another job. He is just being lazy.
Echo Craneman. Both axles NEED to be pulled. Don't let the tow truck driver argue with you!
For those sitting at home or in the coach reading this, crawl under the coach (when stands have been put in place) and check the U joints. Grease if they have not been done lately and check for red dust around the U joint caps. A sure sign of dry U joints.
Pierce
Me three on pulling both axles. I have 2 plastic caps to be put over the openings while axles are out.
Well, since that didn't happen. It was towed from Raton to Denver with one axle still in place. What should I ask the repair shop to look for in case any damage was done while being towed improperly? I've been trying to get a call into Foretravel technical to ask the same question, but it just goes to voicemail and no one ever returns my call. That tech line is pretty much useless.
That was supposedly all done last year when I purchased the coach at MOT. A full lube job and differential service was part of the $3000 plus fluid service package.
Pretty easy to tell if they have been lubed recently when they disassemble the U joints.
OK for short tow at low speed. The diff has to turn at double speed with one axle in place. Loaded on the wrong side of the gears and probably low on oil . Bad idea.
Unfortunately it wasn't a short tow. About 4 hours.
The spider gears also have only plain bearings (bushings), not ball or roller. Normally, they are only in used in turns.
Pierce
Well. Still don't know what failed. All I know at this point was a lot of metal was found in the differential housing and I'm looking at a $9600 total rebuild of the differential. I'll post pictures when I have them and have asked for the mechanics opinion on what may have caused the failure. The tech at Foretravel said he wanted to hear as well as he has never heard of this happening before. I joke about the "Stout" luck occasionally. It bit me again. 😂
4 hrs spinning the diff could ruin it for sure . IMHO
This thread has me thinking we might benefit from a "Mandatory Reading For New Owners" sticky thread where we aggregate the important things like pulling both axles, never letting your AH freeze, etc..
Okay. It's been a while. Three months in the shop to be exact. Here's what the driveline issue turned out to be. The drivers side axle twisted into two pieces. I'll attach some pictures. And for bonus points while it was in the shop someone didn't set the parking brake and it coasted backwards across the parking lot into another vehicle.
WHAT!! Was it a defected shaft?
Could be but more than likely combination of torque/HP and the shift point when he topped the pass. A broke drive shaft is common around here where someone has an oilfield rig out on a muddy oilfield road and misses a shift.
Mike
That is a BIG A/C compressor shaft!
Failed hub bearing, lack of oil, spinning tire onto grippy surface , .
You may want to consider action against the tow company. If they had pulled both axles, the differential would not have turned at all during the 4 hour trip, thereby limiting the damage to a broken axle. Because the tow driver did not remove both axles, not only the the diff turn, some of the internal gears turned at double speed, and the spider gears, which are designed to only turn slowly while negotiating a corner, spun rapidly for 4 hours, possibly with no lubrication. And don't let them say you didn't insist on removing both axles. The driver is supposed to know that. That's what you pay for.
TOM
Since the shaft that was not removed was broken, it is possible the gears did not spin. If they did spin good chance gears are history
Shaft sheared at road speed when the diff seized up. I wouldnt put money towards repair. Find another rear end and swap it it.
What a preventable shame. (Guessing sight unseen)Sorry to see this happen.
True back in the day, I went through several axles on a C Gas Dragster. The shortened axles that I tried to have welded and machined did not have the temper for the torque applied during runs. Machining new ones had marginally better results. Re tempering seemed to be the key. Not available to me at the time. Bottom line do not repair, replace you will have better results. How do we change the subject on this thread?
Are all the grindings in the axel tube or did they come out when the oil was drained?
When towing with the broken axel you might be lucky and all the turning could be
the broken ends turning. What a shame the broken axel wasn't pulled. The broken axel
could have been replaced on the side of the road and as Mike had said getting the old
axel out might be hard but a chinese finger wire puller should do the trick, clean the
axel tube get a new axel and away you go.
Again would be nice to know the sequence of events. Broken axle may of happened 3.5 hours into tow?
I agree about going after tow company. If both axles would have been pulled when picked up for tow, we would know if broxen axle was cause of breakdown or not If gears were the cause, way more damage was caused with only 1 axle removed
The spider gears would tell us what broke first. If the spider gears aren't seized, the axle let go first and that's why drive was lost.
FWIW, if the repair quote is $9,600 then that's the number to beat. In 2008 did the new owners of Foretravel still furnish a binder with all of the truck parts listed? The OP already owned a used rear axle, another used rear axle would be, in my opinion, a step up over rebuilding what he already owns.
Sorry but how many times have I posted that you have to remove both axles when you tow? I didn't guess about this, I called Dana Spicer and went to the engineering dept. The axle covers are cheap and easy to install.
Pierce
The tow operator can be intimidating to those who don't remember that it's their nickel on the table and their machinery at risk.
But in the long run, having the drive shaft spin and the rear wheels not means that either the two-speed is between gears or something broke. Does Foretravel use vacuum shift or electric two speed rear axles?
I got into an argument with a late forum member about the axles having to be pulled which resulted in me calling Spicer. The spider gears normally just sit there doing almost nothing if going straight down the road. They don't even have needle/roller bearing but just plain bronze bearings. When one axle is pulled and the tow is started the spider gears spin very rapidly and the faster the tow is, the faster they spin. They can't get enough lubrication this way and overheat, causing a big failure.
Some tow truck drivers like the ones we see on YouTube are sharp guys but many are not and the only training they get is the word of mouth alternative facts they get from others. When it comes down to it, the person to blame is the one in the mirror.
That's one of the reasons I took the big hub covers off as they took a lot of time to remove before I could get to the axle nuts on the hub.
Pierce
I'm not above being intimidated myself. Recently I purchased a Beseler M(N) 45 enlarger nicely equipped from a camera store in Atlanta. It was bigger and better equipped than I thought and between my telephone call and arrival the price went down. I came equipped and ready to break this beast down into manageable sections but the seller insisted on loading it into my car. Because I didn't put my foot down and risk insulting the man infront of his helper, I now need to either straighten the lower negative stage or purchase a new one. My fault for wanting to stay on the better side of one of the few remaining film camera stores.
The same goes with tow truck drivers except I know there's plenty of those guys around and they're on my turf.
Okay a short update. The problem with the driveline was the drivers side axle twisted into two pieces as per the picture. I suspect the metal found, which wasn't much. Was from the two pieces of the axle rubbing on the tow to Denver. That was also the slow thumping noise coasting down that I heard. The service managers best guess was. A-The axle came from the factory with a defect. Or B-The PO got into a wheel spin situation and that wheel suddenly regained traction and stressed the axle and it took a while to fail. They pulled the passenger side axle and noted no apparent damage. Flushed the differential twice. My concern was any damage from the tow. Like wheel bearings. They took it on a long test drive and noted no abnormalities. I just returned to Dallas with the coach yesterday. No problems from the rear end that I could tell. Hopefully that's the end of that story.
You should be fine as with the drivers side axle broken right at the drive plate it is like having the axle out. If that axle had not been broken you may have had a major o sheet even if the passengers side was removed.
Mike
And as a caveat. The bill ended up being a coach buck. Not 10. That was like Christmas all over again. Now maybe I can afford new tires. 😂
Another Denver thread. 🤦🏻♂️😏
Things always happen in three's for me. Sorry to see this.
And what is the status of the rolling away incident at the shop?
I had to quit reading this thread because it was giving me so much heartburn. Very happy to hear about this positive ending to the saga.
It was repaired at the expense of the shop. They did a nice job on the repair. No complaints about that. But the story doesn't end there. 🤦🏻♂️
The coach was towed there the last week of September. I just now picked it up 3 months later. So while it was there and body work was being done I was watching the weather in Denver. As soon as I saw cold weather coming I called the service manager and told him the coach was not winterized and couldn't be exposed to freezing weather. I was told don't worry it's in a heated shop and it will be winterized before leaving. When I picked it up the Oasis would start. Fuel or electric. So I assumed that maybe it was because of the water being drained. But I thought the coach heat should still work. Anyway, we went on down the road and I thought when we pull in for the night I'll just hook up to water and pressure everything up and see if the Oasis will start. So we pulled in for the night hooked up to city water, and I walked inside turned on the faucet nothing. Walked back outside, and water is running from behind the cover in the wet bay where the tanks at. So apparently they blew out the lines that are inside the coach. But didn't drain all the water from the waterlines that are in the wet bay. So next week it's going down to MOT and find out what needs to be repaired. I also noticed the water pump wasn't working. This has been somewhat of a frustrating experience to say the least. Welcome to RV ownership I guess this is my first one. 😂😢
Just be glad you're reading it and not living it. 😂
I hope they did not blow lines etc at full air pressure because if so the water tank may be history. It has to be closed off from air when doing that and approx 30 to 40 lbs max pressure. Hope you dried up all water.
Johnh
I don't have a clew about what they did and how they did it. I just know they told me they blew out the lines. By the time I got home I had been in above freezing temps for a couple of days. When I opened the tank drain water came out for about 10 minutes. So I don't think any lines in the wet bay were drained. On a positive note. After a 700 mile drive I'm pretty sure that wet bay was throughly dried. So far the service manager has been good to deal with. We'll see when I send them the bill for this.
So sad to read of your ordeal. Sadly still, it continues. You can't simply drain and blow out the fresh water lines in the Oasis/Aquahot as there will be some water that always remains in the lower sections of the heat exchange spiral, which will freeze and burst. Water must be purged with anti-freeze to winterize properly. The shop that "winterized" your coach just cost themselves or your insurance $10-20CB for a new Oasis. You'll probably find pex fittings that froze and cracked for years to come. That's my diagnosis from the interwebs anyhow. W.
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Genuinely sorry to hear all this. Good to hear you are taking it down south. Get the tutorial on how to winterize by them before you leave. Hopefully the aqua hot has been spared. It is well insulated and in the center of the coach on mine. Please post what they find. IMO we all should have a plan to winterize on the side of the road in the winter. Not something we would plan for, but I guess broken axles happen. Accidents also.
Good luck
Scott
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