My House Batteries are boiling over when plugged in to shore power I have disconnected the batteries and performed a battery load test they showed OK is there a problem with the converter and is there away to adjust the volt from the converter and what volt should I have at the batteries while plug in. on the wall meter it shows 14 volts. with the engine run on the alternator the silver leaf shows 14.1 on engine battery. and on dash monitor house batteries are charging at 13.9 the problem seems to be with charging batteries from shore power any one had this problem the top of the batteries are always wet and the water turns in to an acid powder batteries are not over filled is well below the top and are covering the plates . At first I figured I had over fill them but the water is half way from battery plates and top of battery I've also cleaned the top of the batteries with baking soda and soap and water so no discharge a cross the top of the battery from post to post.batteries are 4 years old and hold a good charge dry camping.
Let us know what exact charger and inverter you have and what batterys and what amp hours
They are and we will go from there.
What is the voltage at the battery. If you are boiling over the batteries are been over charged.
I haven't checked voltage at the battery with a voltage meter just going by meter on the inside wall 14 volts I'll check tomorrow and get back to you I'm just reaching out think I have a problem and what I should be looking for the inside wall meter is below 15 volt so I didn't think it was a problem till I opened the compartment tonight and the batteries top are wet again after cleaning and serviced then yesterday and I don't have my voltmeter with me tonight I don't think there's any adjustment on the converter or a voltage regulator like an alternator. The meter on the wall goes from 14 volts to 15 volts it's at 14 but that's not accurate enough .
A full charge is about 12.7 volts with the converter/charger continuing to charge at a float voltage of 13.2 volts. Our converter/charger was not stable so I bought a new Progressive Dynamics charger. It's been great and keeping our float voltage right at 13.2V. This is one of the reasons I have twin digital voltmeters on the dash where I can instantly see them at home or on the road.
What kind of batteries do you have? Conventional, AGM or conventional mainatenance free? Taking the covers off a maintenance free battery will void any warranty in most cases.
Pierce
What John asked for would be a good idea and I googled float voltage for lead acid and it is
13.5
They are conventional maintenance batteries Group 19 I believe I'll take a voltage reading tomorrow with the batteries standing over night with out shore power and then I'll plug it in and take a reading with my voltage meter. on the the Gage on the dash that gives you the reading like water, black water, Grey water, propane, it also give the voltage on the house batteries it reads 13.2 volts I presume that this is the house batteries the engine is off but tomorrow I'll put my voltage meter at the battery post and get back to use all.and the type of converter
Rick, on my coach I had the same problem, I fried all 6 batteries here in the S/W. I have a Prosine 2.5 and one of the dip switches was wrong. I'm not sure witch switch it was but in the prosine manual it was very clear how to set it up. Now its fine.
So the topic and concerns bring a question to mind. My two cigarette inputs at the front dash area have volt meters plugged into them. The top one is for house battery charge numbers and the lower one is for start batteries (at least that is what I have read on the posts) I am plugged into shore power 15 amp and have a BatteryMINDer® Model 128CEC2: 12V 2/4/8 AMP Charger on the start batteries. Both meters on the dash read a constant 13.9 volts. Is that too much or I am good with those numbers??? Both house and start batteries are AGM type batteries
For AGM batteries google said 13.2 to 13.8. float charge and 14.2 to 15 volts for absorption charge.
As you have having problems I would drop your float charge. By putting on the voltmeter right on
the battery you can check to see how your other voltmeters around the coach are comparing. On
my coach the voltage on the Silverleaf and my dash gages are .6 of a volt less than my battery voltage.
The cigarette lighter ports are really close.
Peter,
Quote: AGM Batteries
Popular usage includes high performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar and storage batteries. For this type of battery the typical absorption voltage range 14.4 to 15.0 volts; typical float voltage range 13.2 to 13.8 volts
Our AGMs are working well at about 14 years with 13.2V as the float voltage. Using a digital voltmeter, check the voltage at the battery banks themselves rather than depending on an exact reading from the lighter plugs.
Pierce
After careful reading from various sources, applying a particularly sharp eye to information from the battery manufacturers themselves, I settle on the online Battery University as best information, realizing that their main business is commercial battery chargers.
The numbers I've been using full time since 2011 are as follows:
13.2V Float. This is just enough electromotive force to prevent self discharge through chemical reactions.
13.6V Absorption. This is the trickle charge. If applied continuously there will be some electrolyte loss.
14.4V Bulk. This is the rapid charge rate. There is another calculation involved here to determine the maximum current flow that should be allowed. I balance my power converter size against total current need house and battery combined relying on flooded cell lead acid battery construction and the limited amount of time the battery will be drawing maximum current from the power converter before becoming satiated. Usually about 20 minutes at whoopee as evidenced by charging voltage rise toward that 14.4V regulated voltage.
Cape Bretoner: Unless you've always had an issue, or you haven't made a change in the settings of your power converter or inverter-charger, and this problem has only now occurred your best hope is that the voltage sense wire has become open.
Otherwise: Amazon!
PS If you don't know what EMF is: Google it.
We need to know exactly what inverter/charger you have and whether it has a battery temperature probe.
Could be something as simple as unplugging and/or re-programming the inverter/charger.
To do the re-programming you will need to know:
Battery technology (wet cell, gel or AGM)
Total battery size in amp-hours
Ambient temperature OR if you have a battery temperature probe.
And, if wet cell, buy a cheap (under $10) battery hydrometer and test each cell.
^ This is key ^
Before anything else, is this a new problem that has just started?
If it is, has anything recently changed with regards to batteries or charging system?
Equalization setting would cause electrolyte evaporation.
An alternator that is overcharging the battery can cause boil over. The alternator in a vehicle continuously charges the battery while you drive.
Overheating battery even at correct charge voltage could cause evaporation.
Since the late 90's all Foretravels have had inverter/chargers that adjust their charging and float volts by battery temperature.
In winter the volts are higher on generator and shore power. Summer lower.
Foretravels original Leece-Neville alternators had adjustable voltage regulators on them so as to not overcharge the battery banks mostly in hot weather.
So they set the charging to be at 13.6 volts into a charged battery bank through the isolator.
This was into red top optima engine batteries and to mk(east penn) gel house batteries.
My 97 u320 came with a freedom 25 heart inverter/charger. It's serial number was below 100,000 so it had no battery temp Input
It was not a full sine wave unit either. 70% effecient.
Replaced with a magnum energy 2812 full sine wave unit with battery temp inputs.
I changed the alternator to a new LN without an adjustable voltage output. Now charges at 13.9 until full then drops back to 13.6 or so.
I added a medium sized solar system and added a magnum pt-100 solar controller.
Now both the solar system and shore or gen power to the battery banks are temp controlled.
Start the motor and in not cold weather the batteries show charging at higher volts for a while as like I said the alternator is not temp controlled.
I added a blue sea battery combiner so if either battery bank is getting charged both banks are hooked together automatically and if either bank is being discharged for a short period of time the combiner separates the banks automatically.
Looks like your charger is set incorrectly or the batteries themselves or the cabling might be at fault.
The unicoaches house batteries are in a mostly closed compartment. Boiling over means you are generating hydrogen gas.
Extremely dangerous to install non sealed batteries in a unicoach.
Unihomes had a battery tray with a fiberglass cover over the batteries with a vent tube to the rear axle area to route the gases generated safely out of the compartment.
Unicoaches have no such system as no unicoaches were fit with non sealed batteries.
The inverter charger is in an adjoining compartment and the cabling from the charger goes through the compartment wall into the battery area. Any spark generated could cause a fire.
Foretravel did not use fire retardant marine cabling as they did not fit vented batteries to any unicoach.
Please replace the vented batteries as the compartment is not vented.
House batteries are boiling top of batteries are wet,with acid I have powder acid forming around battery steel rack around the leg from acid running over the side acid build up this occurs when plugged into shore power over time
I have two Gr 8D Commercial 1400CCA batteries maintenance I can add water. they are 4 years old I DID A LOAD test they test OK the alternator and isolator was replaced three years ago this boiling has been going on that I've noticed for a year or so I've had the coach for 3 years the converter is a Freedom model 25 it's looks to be the original 1999.
This morning I did the following test
-standing over NIGTH NOT PLUGGED IN TO SHORE POWER BATTERIES 12.9 VOLTS
-PLUG IN TO SHORE POWER Charging 13.9 VOLTS
-OFF SHORE POWER RUNNING ENGINE (ALTERNATOR) CHARGING 14.1 VOLTS
-RUNNING ENGINE AND Generator TOGETHER CHARGING 14.0 VOLTS
-GENERATOR ONLY CHARGING 13.9 VOTES
I can not get it to over charge by the meter but the batteries are boiling over it's the second time I have to remove them and clean everything up from the powder and paint the battery rack I believe below 15 volts is OK can the batteries boil on there own
I think your problem is plugged in as they are getting charged at 13.9 24/7 and that is too high.
Maybe someone can tell you how to lower your float voltage. You get away with the higher alternator
voltage as it isn't constant. Maybe 4 hours at the most. I changed the regulator to a Balmar Regulator
so I have a Bulk setting, a absorb setting and a float setting.
Thank oldguy I look it up it's been plugged in since November 1 and I took a good look at the batteries and at the rack this week been working on other things.
Two important questions:
Do you have the remote battery temp sensor?
Have you verified inverter/charger programming? Set it to summer temps if no remote temp sensor. Disconnect sensor at inverter/charger if there is one.
Recheck voltage after more than one hour on shore power (so it goes to float mode).
Brent I don't know if I have a temp sensors and where to find this summer temps is there a place I can read up on it so I can check tomorrow I have to dig up the manual if there something there I have the manual that came with the coach but this is all new to me I will try to do some research on the net tonight about it the coach is in a heat garage about five miles from here I keep heat at about 40 degrees it may have this sensor there is two very small wires connected too the positive and negative post that goes through the compartment wall and comes back out and then goes through the compartments ceiling into the living area and I been wondering what it could be for? It looks like Old telephone wire I'll try to trace it .
I was going to ask you if you had a temperature sensor but it looks like there is on on the back battery negative
post, a better picture would help. I see a wire running from what I think is the temperature sensor but I see it runs
to the middle of the front battery which looks like it is broken off from something.
Is this better
That one wire that goes the the front middle battery looks like it needs to be hooked up
somewhere. The battery temperature sensor has two wires that it needs to complete the
circuit.
There is two wires the one on the positive is hard to see in the picture it in the back you just see the top of the clip tomorrow I will try to trace them
Depending on which remote panel you have you can program it for the correct type and amp hours of the battery bank. If the remote has red lights on it to show status, there are dip switches on the back to set it up. If it has the green lights, then it can be set it up on the front. You should be able to find the manuals online on how to program.
Red tractor I just read the manual and starting to understand what Brent is talking about on my panel the indicator lights are red there's no green lights on it. tomorrow I shell look at the settings on the back #2 and #3 what they are set at and try this equalizer the batteries where change at the time I purchased this motor home by the dealer, and maybe this has been my problem all a long
Go to the inverter/charger itself. If you have a battery temp probe, there will be a telephone-like jack/connection.
Just unplug it.
See that voltage are compared with it plugged in.
Will do first thing in morning I believe that I seen it there when I was in that compartment
Good morning Brentt this morning I followed the wire From the batteries to a temperature control module in the electrical panel in the compartment from there it goes to the inverter (Freedom 25) and plugs in with a telephone wire then there another telephone wire goes from the inverter to a silver box on the roof of the compartment marked HWH corporation I think this is the leveling system
Do you think this red light on the temperature control is a warning light that there is a problem I read the manual and trying to understand it but I don't see any thing about this temperature control
Here are pictures if you can make sense of this problem or point me in the direction I need to go
Last night I left the coach unplugged from shore power this morning it read 12.3 volts I plugged it in to shore power it climbed to 14.4 volt then after ten minutes it settled back down to 13.8 volts everything works perfectly just the batteries boil you don't smell them or see them boiling just the top of the batteries are wet with water bad enough that it runs down the side. Here a picture of the batteries this is the only information I can find on them they are not marked deep cell the battery compartment is very will vent someone was asking about this which has nothing to do with over charging but it is safety it looks like I'm the only one that has had a problem like this?
I don't know anything about Freedom inverter but I think you should get the float voltage below
13.5.
Yup. Interested to see what voltage is after verifying programming and disconnecting the battery temperature sense wire.
The only manual I was able to easily find is the manual for the model 458. The voltage chart is disturbing to me because the voltages are too high for continuous day in, day out, use.
14.4V should be limited to four hours or so before switching down to 13.6V The 13.6 volts can continue for the next twenty-four hours or so before switching down to 13.2V. The 13.2V is the Float voltage and is used to keep the battery from self discharging through internal chemical reactions.
But, a defective signal from the battery temp sensor can easily cause over-charging. Absolutely, if the inverter/charger receives a signal from the battery temp sensor that it is below freezing, it will cause these exact symptoms.
That is why disconnect it, reverify programming perimeters and see what it does.
And, when looking at the programing (with remote temp sensor disconnected) program it for hot/warm temps. That will lower voltage as compared with cold temp programming.
According to the manual for the Freedom 458-20 merely disconnecting the temperature sensor will cause the inverter-charger to revert to the 70s.
Update on my boiling problem
I removed the Remote Control Panel from the wall to check the settings on the Dip switches it was set wrong they where set for Cool Gel cell below 80 Fahrenheit I have wet cell Batteries so I changed the settings to wet cell above 80 Fahrenheit and the battery voltage went from 13.9 volts to 13.7 volts
Next I disconnected the Temperature control sensor. the battery voltage went from 13.7 volts to 13.1 so I found that low so I change Dip switch setting to wet cell below 80 Fahrenheit and the voltage went from 13.1 volts to 13.5 volts which I believe it's normal
I am wondering the garage that the coach is in is only heated to about 45 degrees so maybe the temperature control sensor is working correctly and that the voltage of 13.7 volts is correct for that temperature or is it OK to operate the inverter with out this sensor hook up the voltage is dead on.
Go back to the setting that gave you 13.2V for the time being and see if your batteries become discharged.
You won't hurt the Freedom 25 by running with the temperature sensor disconnected.
Art
So took the advice of the forum and took out a volt meter and checked the battery voltage at the batteries. Start batteries 13.9 and the house batteries 13.6. The magnum says they are in float with 0a usage...
Is there an adjustment that I am missing on my magnum 2812 that requires setting??
What is ambient temperature? If cold, that is fine, if warm that is too high.
Assume you have gone through the programming of your inverter/charger.
Room temperature is at 40 degrees that what I keep the building at I went over the Dip switch program I only set the Battery Type wet cell cool
1st setting is Equalize OFF
2nd setting is battery cool wet cell OFF
3rd setting is battery cool wet cell OFF
4th setting is Auto Charge enable:charge on when AC connected OFF
5th setting is Idle sensitivity OFF
6th setting is Idle sensitivity OFF
7th setting is power sharing OFF
8th setting is power sharing on
The only setting on position is the 8th setting below is a picture of the Dip switch program please advise if any of these settings should be change I believe these are factory settings can see someone playing around with then since you have to remove the control panel from the wall I only change the battery settings
Room temperature is at 40 degrees that what I keep the building at I went over the Dip switch program I only set the Battery Type wet cell cool
1st setting is Equalize OFF
2nd setting is battery cool wet cell OFF
3rd setting is battery cool wet cell OFF
4th setting is Auto Charge enable:charge on when AC connected OFF
5th setting is Idle sensitivity OFF
6th setting is Idle sensitivity OFF
7th setting is power sharing OFF
8th setting is power sharing on
The only setting on position is the 8th setting below is a picture of the Dip switch program please advise if any of these settings should be change I believe these are factory settings can see someone playing around with then since you have to remove the control panel from the wall I only change the battery settings
Peter the Magnum can be adjusted to what ever you want. The tech guys are really helpful and
here is the number 1 800 553 6418. Why is your start batteries higher, do you have a separate charger
for your start batteries. I have been having trouble getting my float to 13.8 as it has been too high
and they have been working with me and the last guy said it may need to reboot it. Luckily for me
my batteries can handle the higher voltage
interesting topic came out of the house the other day, all I could smell was rotton eggs, my older AGM battery was boiling, not sure why it had been operating with no real issues, hopefully get the lithium batteries in sooner than later, replaced the AGM with a cheap NAPA battery just to get by
The temps during the voltage test was 5 degrees f
Oldguy
Yes I have a battery minder charger on the start batteries. I have not had any issues(smells, boiling or the batteries have not been hot to touch) so I presume everything is ok. I am going to give the tech a call just to check..
To lower charge voltage, set temperature higher.
If plugged into anything but a 50 amp outlet, use power share to limit amps of 120 VAC to be used for charging to 5. That still provides around 50 amps to the batteries, and leaves you amps to use for other things.
The only time you really need power share off/high setting is if you are running the generator to recharge the batteries. Under those conditions, max charge rate is a benefit.
Still scary having vented battery's in a closed compartment. You are endangering yourself
With the proper applied voltages there will be minimal to no out-gassing.
I prefer to save the fear for things that are truly scary.
Wait. I lied.
I plan for the worst and rely on training to react properly. So far it's worked.
Cape Bretoner? Set your DIP switches for the Warm Wet Battery and leave the temperature probe unplugged.
FWIW Can you, from the control panel manually select 14.4V aka Rapid or Bulk charging? If the answer is yes and you want to warm the batteries when the temperature is -30C to, I don't know, turn your main engine for starting? That'll do the job.