Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 08:56:31 am
Title: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 08:56:31 am
Talking to Keith Reich yesterday and he said he thought there was a discussion here on the forum about a new fuel system to replace the King Control other than installing an air throttle. I said I don't think so but will double check. My question is have I missed something and is there another option besides air throttle?
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: craneman on July 01, 2023, 09:07:38 am
Start here,
Air throttle installation to replace King Controls (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44666.msg452693#msg452693)
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: oldmattb on July 01, 2023, 09:09:16 am
Air throttle installation to replace King Controls (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44666.msg452693#msg452693)
Beat me to it. Bless the people that cut the new trails AND leave instructions for the rest of us!
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 09:12:55 am
I'm aware of the air throttle system Chuck but Kieth thought there was a system being discussed besides Air and I'm checking to see if I missed it .
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: John44 on July 01, 2023, 09:15:36 am
Read the above air throttle posts,(all of them),that is exactly what Dub does not want.To answer your question Dub,I do not remember seeing what your asking,maybe on another brand forum.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 09:17:04 am
I should have captialized OTHER than.Thanks still because I'm going to need help with the air if nothing else exist. In contact with JOR now.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 09:33:53 am
The reason I'm asking is the air throttle parts alone are going to probably surpass 2k and I expect to have to hire the labor and that will be no telling what for cost. Looking for possible options that I don't think exist. I think what Kieth heard about IS the air throttle but wanted to double check.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 09:41:24 am
I could probably find a USED King box but used electronics is a big crap shoot and usually not returnable. I rode that horse on used ECM years ago.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: John44 on July 01, 2023, 09:58:33 am
Dub,any luck on the throttle sensor?
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 10:27:49 am
Not really David. Of course my old sensor is obsolete so I bought a new pedal and updated sensor from Williams controlsThey are the manufacturer that built the original and their rep and one of their engineers has tried to help me. The new pedal would plug into my harness without any adapting but it won't throttle the engine. I told him the old sensor failed an ohm test and the engineer replied that ohms is not the way to test the obsolete sensor, if it has adequate voltage it will work. Things are pointing to the king box. Williams told the vendor to refund the purchase price and I appreciated that because ANYTHING electronic is usually yours when you take possession. I'm reluctant to throw any more money at the issue and am likely to change over to air since it seems to be all that is available for options.I am going to check the voltage as the engineer explained but I'm skeptical of that being the issue. I don't feel lucky concerning this issue because of knowing the King Controls history.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Doug W. on July 01, 2023, 11:19:52 am
Other than air some have installed a hydraulic throttle system maybe this is what Keith was referring to.
King Controls KC 2600 Problem............and Solution (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=41448.msg413110#msg413110)
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Chuck Pearson on July 01, 2023, 07:41:39 pm
Dub, there are several options. Note, however that all of them require you to also purchase and install a throttle position sensor for the transmission to shift correctly. This device is integrated into the King control, very unusual setup. This device is in the 4-500 dollar range and usually requires an allison tech to calibrate it after install. In addition you will need to replace or adapt existing foot pedal.
Probably the most popular is the air throttle. Not especially simple to set up as it requires tapping into existing air lines and custom bracketry for the connection of air cylinder to engine at far end. Ft member JOR documented his install very well on the forum.
There is a hydraulic system that uses mineral oil which looked pretty straightforward last time I checked. Unfortunately I don't remember the brand, though they occasionally pop up on ebay.
The third, and definitely the least expensive is using a high quality marine throttle/shift cable. Now, before anyone casts aspersions on this idea, let me assure you I have routed high quality marine cables, long ones, through many bends and they are unbelievably efficient. You can easily push and pull them with your pinky finger and they last for many years in a saltwater environment. Plus, routing one in a foretravel will require far fewer bends than the usual marine application. It will require sourcing the end fittings separately and some ingenuity in connecting but seems quite straightforward. Depending on how much cable travel a foot pedal provides you may or may not have to construct a linkage at engine end to allow full throttle....just haven't looked into it enough to say.
Sorry you're in this predicament. Let me know if I can help, brainstorming, parts sourcing etc.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 01, 2023, 08:09:51 pm
I'm surprised some clever tech hasn't come up with a 12 volt electronic throttle system. Transducer pedal assembly up front, one long multi-conductor cable to the rear, and a slave solenoid on the engine to pull the throttle lever. Lots of vehicles are "drive by wire" these days, with no mechanical connection between accelerator pedal and engine. Just need somebody to come up with the appropriate parts and box them in a kit.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: craneman on July 01, 2023, 09:07:32 pm
Dub, there are several options. Note, however that all of them require you to also purchase and install a throttle position sensor for the transmission to shift correctly. This device is integrated into the King control, very unusual setup. This device is in the 4-500 dollar range and usually requires an allison tech to calibrate it after install. In addition you will need to replace or adapt existing foot pedal.
Probably the most popular is the air throttle. Not especially simple to set up as it requires tapping into existing air lines and custom bracketry for the connection of air cylinder to engine at far end. Ft member JOR documented his install very well on the forum.
There is a hydraulic system that uses mineral oil which looked pretty straightforward last time I checked. Unfortunately I don't remember the brand, though they occasionally pop up on ebay.
The third, and definitely the least expensive is using a high quality marine throttle/shift cable. Now, before anyone casts aspersions on this idea, let me assure you I have routed high quality marine cables, long ones, through many bends and they are unbelievably efficient. You can easily push and pull them with your pinky finger and they last for many years in a saltwater environment. Plus, routing one in a foretravel will require far fewer bends than the usual marine application. It will require sourcing the end fittings separately and some ingenuity in connecting but seems quite straightforward. Depending on how much cable travel a foot pedal provides you may or may not have to construct a linkage at engine end to allow full throttle....just haven't looked into it enough to say.
Sorry you're in this predicament. Let me know if I can help, brainstorming, parts sourcing etc.
My '81 40' Fortravel uses such a cable from the factory, for the throttle and the shifter. I believe they are Morse cables but would have to check. It is a rear engine diesel pusher and long cables.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Dub on July 01, 2023, 09:12:06 pm
Dub, there are several options. Note, however that all of them require you to also purchase and install a throttle position sensor for the transmission to shift correctly. This device is integrated into the King control, very unusual setup. This device is in the 4-500 dollar range and usually requires an allison tech to calibrate it after install. In addition you will need to replace or adapt existing foot pedal.
Probably the most popular is the air throttle. Not especially simple to set up as it requires tapping into existing air lines and custom bracketry for the connection of air cylinder to engine at far end. Ft member JOR documented his install very well on the forum.
There is a hydraulic system that uses mineral oil which looked pretty straightforward last time I checked. Unfortunately I don't remember the brand, though they occasionally pop up on ebay.
The third, and definitely the least expensive is using a high quality marine throttle/shift cable. Now, before anyone casts aspersions on this idea, let me assure you I have routed high quality marine cables, long ones, through many bends and they are unbelievably efficient. You can easily push and pull them with your pinky finger and they last for many years in a saltwater environment. Plus, routing one in a foretravel will require far fewer bends than the usual marine application. It will require sourcing the end fittings separately and some ingenuity in connecting but seems quite straightforward. Depending on how much cable travel a foot pedal provides you may or may not have to construct a linkage at engine end to allow full throttle....just haven't looked into it enough to say.
Sorry you're in this predicament. Let me know if I can help, brainstorming, parts sourcing etc..... Quote Thanks Chuck... John ORiely.... JOR that used to be with us sent me extensive drawings today via email. I was busy all afternoon plus it is very hot in my shop where my big monitor is that will help me get a broad view of the drawings so I can study closely, I will do that in the morning when it cools a little...Also another forum member contacted me this morning with some ideas and a couple of vendors names from the auto racing industry that I plan to follow up on..There are some possibilities there that could work and be less expensive at the same time. The parts alone for the air throttle system will likely be between $2,000.00 and $2500.00. I will likely farm out the labor because I just don't believe I can satisfy myself with my own work even though I have a shop. I do quiet a bit of my own work but this makes my head spin. I will be the one to gather the parts and will likely need help with that so I appreciate your offer. Like Chuck from midland/ Odessa says, a guy who would come up with an alternative and less expensive replacement for throttle replacement could sell it with a little marketing. We know of one customer he would have Monday morning.. Like you said, it is a long way from the helm to the engine room on a 40ft boat so there are applications there that could be used in a bus if a guy just sat down, figured it out and built it. Again unfortunately that is above my pay grade.
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: Chuck Pearson on July 01, 2023, 09:43:12 pm
Dub check your private messages
Title: Re: Throttle System for 8.3
Post by: KCFultz on July 02, 2023, 05:57:13 am
This company has mechanical foot pedals and electric foot pedals. They have cables too.
Kongsberg CT Series Mechanical Foot Pedal – Hindle Controls (https://www.hindlecontrols.com/product/ct-series-mechanical-foot-pedal/)
My King system working fine but know that could change any day.