Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Moby on October 10, 2023, 04:20:52 pm

Title: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Moby on October 10, 2023, 04:20:52 pm
 Can someone help settle a "debate" between myself and my engineer son.
 Said son claims rv antifreeze will freeze at about 7° F and provided attached graph.
 I find it hard to swollow.

  What say you?
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Rich Bowman on October 10, 2023, 04:48:01 pm
My understanding is that it does freeze but does not expand so there is no damage to the plumbing.

Rich
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: AC7880 on October 10, 2023, 09:13:20 pm
Can someone help settle a "debate" between myself and my engineer son.
 Said son claims rv antifreeze will freeze at about 7° F and provided attached graph.
 I find it hard to swollow.

  What say you?
Put some in your freezer and test it
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Moby on October 10, 2023, 09:30:45 pm
Put some in your freezer and test it

 Don't have any.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Geodmann on October 10, 2023, 10:26:39 pm

Put some in your freezer and test it
[/quote]

I've done that and it does freeze at lower temperatures than you would expect however it freezes into a slush with minimal expansion.  I still use the lowest rated anti freeze that I can buy.  I also use the propylene glycol and not the ethylene glycol.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Geodmann on October 11, 2023, 10:31:28 am
I should have said that it freezes at higher temperatures than you would expect.  Consistent with the chart in the original post.  My bad.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Moby on October 11, 2023, 10:33:02 am
I should have said that it freezes at higher temperatures than you would expect.  Consistent with the chart in the original post.  My bad.
I think we all understood.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Old Toolmaker on October 12, 2023, 08:15:56 am
Can someone help settle a "debate" between myself and my engineer son.
 Said son claims rv antifreeze will freeze at about 7° F and provided attached graph.
 I find it hard to swollow.

  What say you?
The joy of a 50% mixture of water and ethylene or propylene glycol is that it turns into a slush first.
The science of the whole thing is that water's densest point is 4° above the freezing point.  This coincides with the point of greatest expansion after that as water cools it keeps shrinking.

From the internet via Mr. Google:

"Water freezes at 0°C (32°F) and pure ethylene freezes at -13°C (8.6°F), but mixtures of the two freeze at lower temperatures. For example, a 50/50 mixture by weight of ethylene glycol and water freezes at -36°C (-33°F)."

"Pure water freezes at 32° F, but a 60% solution of DOWFROST propylene glycol pushes the freezing point down to -60° F. While the freezing point of pure glycol is only -39° F, the synergy between glycol and water results in a much lower freezing point."

Fun fact: Once water reaching freezing temperature, it still has to give up four more degrees of heat before it freezes.  The same goes for warming ice, once ice warms to the melting point it sits there and keep soaking up heat for four more degrees before turning back into water.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: Olde English on October 12, 2023, 12:02:41 pm
Something about "latent heat" comes to mind from physics class and naphtha, I do remember that halt in temperature drop or rise.
Title: Re: RV Antifreeze
Post by: rbark on October 12, 2023, 12:40:49 pm
Yes, latent heat of fusion, know it well from freezing Tuna fish when I was a chief engineer on the tuna boats worked on.