This is a pretty good 3/4 days work to get the fuel lines replaces for to old fellows.
Mike
Yes, sir, it sure was. I am so glad the tank is out now.
Is your fuel tank stamped anywhere with the gal. capacity?
If you put a tape measure on the tank it measures slightly more.
Does this diagram match the tank?
It looks like it to me. Mike?
Chuck,
Yes that is it.
Mike
Project Du Jour: getting head start for testing coils, replacing "O" rings, and plungers by 2nd year apprentice Zack. (anyone that can help me pull a fuel tank out of one of these coaches is more than a 1st year apprentice) This is the worse place I have ever seen a 6 pack mounted on a coach. It is hid next to the wet tank up behind the differential with no way to access it if broke down on the road unless you are thinner than the distance from the ground to the bottom of the axle housing.
Mike
That is crazy Mike. I wonder why that was done that way. I hope I never have to work on it on the road, I am pretty sure I would not be able to get up in there to access it. Thank you very much for all the help sir.
Had some free time this A/M so I stripped this 6 pack down to it's underpants getting it ready to clean and freshen up.
1st pic is testing coils.
2. The 2nd pic you will see the 6 shinney seating surfaces. DON"T go polishing them up with emery cloth/sandpaper as this is where the "O" rings seat off.
3. This is what all the parts look like all laid out ready for cleaning.
4. If you read of a little spring that will vanish here is what it looks like and you won't find a replacement at any hardware store.
5. This is how you keep it from escaping.
Mike
Nice, you have been hard at it. Do you see any signs of a failure so far? Why the rear drops down in travel mode only?
That indicates a problem with the rear ride height control valves, most likely. That's outside of the responsibility of the six pack. Nothing Mike doesn't already know though.
Hi Elliott.
Correct, we are starting with the six-packs since they are pretty aged and if that does not solve the issue, we will change out the RHCV's. Probably going to change them anyway just to be safe. My plan is to replace everything I can before I put this thing on the road to hopefully help my odds of not having a failure down the road. Also, having the use of Mike's pit is a tremendous help so I want get everything I can done underneath now while his pit is available. So, far things are progressing pretty good I'd say thanks to Mike's endless bank of knowledge.
I agree with your plan of preemptively replacing the rhcvs. Easy to do (even the front if you have access to a pit) and something that'll strand you while waiting on parts if they fail on the road. I'd have killed for access to a pit while doing all this on my U320.
As of this writing it seems like the blown out diaphragms on both the front and rear tank protection/isolation valves are leaking more air than the compressor can make up. With this big leak it seems like there isn't enough air to make up when the ride height calls for air as you travel down the road. With 2 ride height valve in the rear you have a tendency to use twice as much air as the front. We will check both ride height valves after we stop some of the air leaks and replace them if need be.
Mike
I hear ya. I cannot imagine doing some of this work on the flat ground. It would be brutal for me to do all this that Mike has done without a pit. I know I will never prevent failures but I am sure going to try to sway the odds in my favor as much as I can at this point. Even so, I will always have spares for most of the common parts traveling with me everywhere I go just in case. With most of the parts coming from Ch*na now days, I just don't have the comfort level I would like to.
Mike,
I ordered the isolation / protect valves, I will check to see when they will arrive. The new air dyer will be here tomorrow.
Several have ask in the past what there is to taking apart a Pure Air Plus so with this coach there is no rush like some that I work on. By no means is this a complete how to but it shows what is inside and what needs to be replaced when rebuilding.
1. The first pic is just what the unit looks like when removed from the coach.
2. Some people think that if you remove the desiccant canister (the orange one in this pic) along with the coalescing filter (DQ6036) you have rebuilt the air dryer. But not so as you need to freshen up the lower end also.
3. This is the isolation valve that has been removed. If your coach has one you need to take it off and clean it before you reinstall it. If you decide to just get a new dryer assembly from the parts store you still need to keep this part as it don't come with a new dryer. If you have to return the old dryer for a core and don't remove this you will need to buy a replacement. (KN23500)
4. Here is what is inside the isolation valve
5. It is hard to see but you will find gung down behind the piston
6. This is the internal discharge check valve. (RN60G) You will need to remove the 90 if you are buying a replacement dryer.
7. This disk has a rubber side and has to face to the dryer and not the 90. The rubber side is hard to see in this picture.
8. From left to right is the
turbo valve (DQ6031)
purge valve (DA33115)
snap ring
9. This is how/where the purge valve goes in the housing.
10. A close up of the turbo valve and seat mentioned in #8 It is hidden internally.
11. the parts you need to save from the old dryer if you are going with a store rebuilt unit.
If you are going to rebuild yourself you will most likely find if you buy a DQ6020 and a DQ6026 they are cheaper than buying a la carte and have all the parts listed.
There will be 2 post to get all the pics
Mike
Here is the rest
Lon,
Our '99 was labeled as 201 gallons on ours when pulled.
No pics.. but we pulled one of the hydraulic fan motors so we can reseal it. Once cleaned up and on the shop bench we may have a show and tell.
Mike
Mike, I've been following your and Zack's work here.
I'm just curious........by chance are there any houses in your neighborhood for sale? ;)
Would love to be your neighbor!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark,
Funny you should ask as this is a shot from my front porch. Not only do you see the recycle bin but that is a for sale sign too.
Didn't do much today as had other obligations all morning. I did get all the parts cleaned and checked over for the rear 6pack rebuild.
Mike
You could buy it as an investment and rent it to Foreforums members making the pilgrimage to seek your expertise and assistance ;)
Something tells me that Mike probably wouldn't be getting much rest. Plus wonder what the neighbors would think of the constant stream of FT's ? :D :D
Well we spent most of the day pulling fuel lines and are 2 give out dudes. I said I wasn't going to do fuel lines any more and that was a couple of coaches back. For those that may stumble across this post in the future we used:
~25' of 5/8" for the engine supply
~35' of 3/8" for the return line
~15' of 3/8" for the supply to generator
~15' of 3/8" for the return from the generator
This is a 36' WTBI U270
This coach had no1/2" fuel line for the return. No they were not replaced in the past as they had OEM stickers and ty wraps.
These are Trident A-1 marine grade fuel line
We did use some extra hose so it will make hooking up the fuel lines to the tank much easier to reach as you slide in the tank.
Mike
Took time to reassemble the rear 6pack with a kit from member Tom McCloud.
1. This is what you get when you open the package 6 each of 3 different size O rings, 6 springs, 6 plungers, 1 wrench instruction sheet
2. This is a pic of the check valve O ring that our manifold has that did not come with his kit. It is 1/4" id 3/8" od you will need 2
3. The brass plug also has an O ring that was not included. This one is 3/8 id 9/16" od. you will need 2 one for each side.
Now not all manifolds have this valve and plug so you may have to source these O rings. They are common size so most any O ring kit will have them included.
4. Back together ready for the coils.
5. Coils installed ready to go to the test bench (yes I ain't going install this without testing first) then to the coach. No parts left over on the table so this is good.
Mike
Looks great Mike.
To back up Mike's comments about the two small O-rings that are
not included in the rebuild kits, I provided the exact part numbers in my old rebuild thread (linked below).
The check valve uses AS568-010.
The brass plug uses AS568-013.
Working On My Six Pack (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27491.msg225369#msg225369)
I am going to answer a couple of PM's here as others may be thinking the same thing.
After I get finished with this coach's tinker jobs I plan on starting job specific threads so they might be able to be found easier. Like one each for fuel lines, dryer, fan motor and beyond.
If/when I get another project coach I guess I will do a thread about it's updating as several has ask. A couple have said they learned something. Thanks for the kind words.
No I will not do a thread or video on brakes, You can read the 4m Book as good as I can. If you want to swing by and do brake work we will be reading the 4M book before we start. If you don't think that you need to read/study that book don't worry about swinging by. If you get off track I will be glad to show you what you need to do to correct the problem.
I did have time to install the rear 6 pack and a new/rebuilt Pure Air Plus dryer this afternoon.
Thanks Chuck as I hunted those numbers for those O rings and couldn't find them.
Mike
Well today was a stellar day for resealing one of the radiator fan motors and getting it reinstalled. Here are pics. of the day
1. As it looks when it gets to the shop floor
2. Fan blades and hub removed. The hub is tapered with a key so you may need a puller to get it off the shaft. I looked all over the fan blades, hub, and backing plates for a part number or manufacture number but there isn't any info so for now Ernie's fan find will have to do if you need a new fan blade.
3. You have to remove this snap ring to get to the seal that is hid underneath
4. Old seal out new ready to go in. The old seal came out the old school way where you drill a 1/16" hole in the back of the seal. I dip the drill in grease before I start so chips will stick to the drill bit. Once you have a hole just run in a screw into said hole. Get a pry bar and pry the seal loose. Now the pitfalls are getting chips down in the area behind the seal or scoring the shaft where the seal runs so take care. They do make a seal puller and it seems like someone has posted about one of these tools. (could be craneman)
5. All back together ready to go back to the coach.
Mike
Good writeup and pictures Mike! Thanks.
I have a puller similar to this but didn't use it as I disassembled the pumps and replaced inner seals and O-rings.
Amazon.com: USSKYBOY 58430 Shaft Type Seal Puller Universal Seal Puller for... (https://www.amazon.com/USSKYBOY-58430-Puller-Universal-Motorcycles/dp/B0BRCJGQML?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1EN9HXXRHFEC4&nis=6)
Mike I've found that the seal metal is real soft and I have had great luck with driving a prick punch threw then following with a drywall screw just started in hole. I have a home made slide hammer that slids over the head to pull. If it pulls out just go next to that hole and make another. No chips.
A while back Chuck did a great write up on replacing the pressure protection valves so I won't try to compete. It sure seems like they could have made up this piping with less than 12 air lines. Now this don't include the "T"s and 90*s that are used to assemble this mess. The only good thing about this job is that when you get to the front/rear tanks where these valves are located you can just set there on the ground and get after it. Both of these valves diaphragms were shot and leaking like an open line no wonder the compressor was having trouble keeping up.
Mike
Mike,
Do you have any suggestions on a reliable regulator to use there. (shown in your picture) I believe is it used to regulate the pressure to raise the front end to keep it somewhat in sync with the rear, but I may be wrong.
I have replaced it a few times in the last 5 years. I have been using the ones sold at Lowes and Home Depot, but they just don't seem to last for me.
In case anyone is interested, link below:
Air Tank Valves R&R (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27638)
Mark,
The short answer is No. I have tried those listed along with Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply, Rural King, and Northern Tool. The last ones from Northern have held up better than others. Now your results may be different as I might have just got lucky. I can't keep the one for the step and step cover from leaking so I have several that I carry.
Mike
@ Chuck,
I can always count on you when my IT head is not available. Thanks for posting that thread.
Well the beast came to life this afternoon after a terrible time in getting the fuel system primed up. When we brought this coach home it had a bad shake/vibration that we couldn't put our finger on during the trip. Once we finally got the engine running we let it idle for quite a while doing several checks on various things we worked on. During this idle time the engine ran smother than anytime during the trip. Engine must have been pulling air in due to all the cracks in the suction line causing the rough running. Hope everything from here is downhill as those fuel lines have whipped us.
Mike
Yes after a couple of weeks it was nice to hear the engine come to life. Now to figure out why the HWH is stuck in travel mode which keeps us from being able to manually raise or dump.
Mike
When that happened to mine, the plug had fallen out of the back of the dash controller.
When you are messing with the HWH panel, after you push the AIR button one time, what panel lights are turned on?
Since you say it is stuck in travel mode, I assume the TRAVEL light is showing, but are any other lights on?
This subject is covered in Part 3 of REPAIR STEPS in the HWH 600 SERIES SERVICE MANUAL linked below:
https://hwhcorp.com/ml11148.pdf
Chuck
The only light that comes on and stays on is the travel mode green light. No other lights are on. No buttons are working at all. Cannot raise. level or dump. Even with the #11 fuse pulled, the green travel light is still on. This is odd because the trip home, HWH controls seemed to work as it should. The only things we've done since the tri[p home was pull the tank, change fuel lines, Mike rebuilt the rear six-pack, change the Pure Air Plus, both isolation valves, replaced one of the hydraulic fan motor seals. Everything we fixed all works fine now but now the HWH has decided to start acting up for some reason.
Wouldn't hurt to try Chuck's (craneman) suggestion - disconnect the plug on the back of the HWH touch pad panel, check for corroded or bent pins in the plug. If everything looks good, reconnect the plug making sure it is firmly seated.
Thanks, we'll give that a try. I know Mike is working hard trying to figure this out so hopefully, the solution will be right around the corner.
Me 2
Mike
The com cord on the back of the pad is the next thing on my list, then out comes the troubleshooting book.
Mike
Tried calling HWH this morning, no dice. They said their techs are backed up 2 weeks and would not allow me to break in line and speak to one. So, I'm completely of no use on this issue. She said all they can do is have me send in my control panel and board for repair & return but we don't know if my panel & board are actually defective yet so I don't know. I'm still searching online for anyone else with an issue like this but nothing so far.
craneman
Provided the plug has fallen off the back of mine, would the green travel still be lit up?
Yes, the green light only tells you that you have enough air pressure to travel, nothing to do with having the correct ride height.
Well I have been cooking all morning getting ready for turkey day. It takes a while to assemble a #3 wash tub full of dressing. Yes as if the dressing has time for the flavors to marry it makes all the difference just like using stale cornbread. With this not being the cooking section let me give an update.
Pam (the HWH operator) went out and checked the com cable for good connection. On a side bar yes Pam parks the coach at a campground. I look the site over and put my foot down were I want the rear tire and she does the rest. So she found the cable had fallen off before at some point in time as it was ty wrap holding it in place. SO it still could be a bad com cable or bad control pad but more testing will be needed.
Mike
Sounds good Mike. Just let me know what I need to do and I will get it done. Thanks
Zack,
It is quite a standard procedure for HWH not to allow you to talk to a tech on the phone and to delay email responses for weeks. So their response to you is typical. Sending a board to them may take a couple of weeks to receive your board back. This is SOP for them.
Possibly you might get faster service if you make an appointment with Ashli to just go there. The HWH 800 phone answering person will send an internal email to Ashli in service and pretty quickly she will call you back for a service date. Often service dates are a few weeks out.
However, their service is excellent, and prices are quite fair. Folks who have gone there are usually quite happy. They truly are the main source for their product repairs.
Jim
On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 11:29 AM Zack & Ginny via ForeForums noreply@foreforums.com> wrote:
Doubtful
On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 11:33 AM Zack & Ginny via ForeForums noreply@foreforums.com> wrote:
Hi Jim
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I cannot make a trip to Iowa at this time. The coach is sitting on jack stands in Mike's driveway and is not able to drive anywhere until we get this issue fixed. The bags are empty and the control panel will not activate to fill the bags to raise enough to get off the stands.
You could use a jumper wire to put 12 volt power to the travel valves. You would need to unplug the travel valve harness from the board in the control panel. Is the salesman switch on. Also have you checked both 12 volt sources to the control box. There is one from the chassis battery controlled by the ignition and another from the house batteries that is a constant 12 volt.
You might try pinging azpete (Paul Maddox) on iRV2. He's an HWH tech. He doesn't operate as an independent contractor, only factory, but he might be able to help diagnose. If you view his posts, you'll find his phone number.
iRV2 Forums - View Profile: azpete (https://www.irv2.com/forums/members/azpete-13211.html)
Well we are back in business. After I crawled up in the belly of the beast with a meter and done some checking behind the kick plate it was determined that the system sure needs12VDC to even turn on. Breaker fixed system is functioning. Now we need to turn the coach around and put the front end over the pit so I can check the exhaust ports on the 6 pack for dirt daubers as the front won't lower. Even manually jumping the coils open no air coming out the exhaust port.
It's always the simple stuff that makes me loose my hair.
Mike
Yes, dirt daubers can certainly plug up the exhaust ports, AND I found out (the hard way) about
another critter that can be equally troublesome.
See link below for the intriguing tale of my encounter with
MASON BEES! Mason Bee Plugs in 6-Pack Exhaust Ports (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=39887.0)
Does any body know the amp rating for the preheat relay for an 8.3 mechanical engine. '98 model in this 270
Parts place has 20 amp rating to about 500 amp.
Mike
Here is a couple of pics as to what we need.
Update: Just got the part number from a Forum member and was confirmed through Quick Serve.
Thanks to all