UPDATE: Found no leak under the shower floor nor along the pipe running to the junction for the bathroom sink by the toilet. Couldn't get my bore scope into a position to see under that section.
UPDATE 2: well I found a good and bad thing.
Good thing is that that leak wasn't what I thought it was.
Bad thing is that I'm a dumbass.
I got up today and was able to remove the bottom shelf behind the toilet and had great access to that shower drain pipe. Not a drop of water to be found (👍😁)
the dumbass part is that I looked at our fresh tank level and it was FULL. Yet we arrived with less than 1/4. Apparently when I hooked up to the parks cable and looped the excess over the faucet. I must have accidentally hit the tank fill momentarily on then off. The valve certainly wasn't filling at full flow. It was very very slowly filling. And why it looked like a leak than the tank overflow.
In the end it was a reminder to get back to my old habit of always turning off the park spigot at night and when we leave the park for the day.
[Topic title updated to reflect discovered issue - Michelle]
It's quite possible that the leak isn't from the pipes themselves but from the drain area of the shower.
Check the access panel, which is probably hard to reach, but usually from the bedroom. You should be able to see under the base pan from there. If the leak is from the drain area leaking, you can use one of these.
WingTite Pro-Series Shower Drain, Builders Model for New Construction,... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L8N3SDS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1)
They install entirely from the top, and will save you a lot of hours trying to get access from below.
If you have a cracked pipe, you may have to create an access from the wheel well or remove the shower entirely. Both have been done by others on the forum, a good search should find those examples.
Jerry
I am not sure from your description just where the leak you see is. When you say 'high up' do you mean at the shower head or somewhere else. Your description didn't sound like it was a drain.
Jerre
So this could be a potable water leak?
Sorry. When i was outside the coach at the rear axle. The water was coming from an area above the fresh tank over flow. I suspect it could be the drain. The carpet in the bedroom is dry as is the subfloor under the toilet. Have no idea of how to access it.
See if you get the same leak when you are not on city water. Kiwitex has a very similar coach to yours and he probably has more ideas.
I had that issue and my drain line had worked loose.
if you are lucky it might be at the shower drain.
Might want to try one of these:
WingTite Pro-Series Shower Drain, Builders Model for New Construction,... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DHNV2V/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_8?smid=A2CV0N5IMDJCIN&th=1)
"INSTALLS IN MINUTES - Fits 2" ABS pipe and 2" PVC pipe - No below access needed"
Thank kwikitex. Removed that panel in the bedroom as well as under the toilet. Used the bore scope i forgot about and zero water under the shower pan, nor from the pex lines running up to the mixer. Also zero water under the toilet area. Nor along the shower drain pipe. I was unable to get the scope pointed down where the shower pipe links in the sink drain pipe. Color me confused.
Also, the water that is on the ground did not have the grey tank stink.
I would try putting the borescope down the drain as the next step, see if you can find something that way.
If there's no obvious source then try the installing the wingtite drain cap, see if that solves the problem. It's cheap enough that if it does nothing you haven't lost much. Also while you are doing that, you will be better able to see under the shower pan for water signs.
I had this same problem last year and it turned out to be the drain cap. I was
so relieved that I didn't have to pull the whole shower!
It took me about an hour to install it, but my old one was a bit of a problem to remove.
Final conclusion. In the end, it ended up being a leaky fill valve. It happened again when I hooked up to city water. I made dang sure i never touched the fill button.
And what do you know. The next morning the nearly empty tank wasn't empty any longer. The overflow had a very small but constant dribble. So a valve rebuild or replacement is on the docket when we land in Tucson next week.
I have the same issue right now with the fill valve slowly passing water in the the fresh tank with fill switch off. For now I am running the water pump with shore off every other day, then shore water the opposite days.
Valve disassemble and cleaning on my list. Hope to get to it this coming week - possibly tomorrow.
Jerry have you been using a pressure regulator. Leaks will happen without one my pressure is quite hi
Yep! set at 45-50 psi.
I imagine that our fill valve is old and crusted up with hard water deposits. We spend most of our time in fairly dry places that have very hard water. We do use a softener, But that isn't a cure for all the years prior.
We have owned this coach since 2015 and who knows if the fill valve was ever rebuilt or replaced prior to our time. As water 'leaks" go. This is of course quite minor and has an easy work around till we land at Justin's on Dec 10th.
I took our water fill apart today. No rebuild parts needed on ours.
When first taking it apart I saw no apparent debris, but when I swished all non electric parts around in the sink full of water I filled before turning the water off, multiple small/tiny pieces discovered. Note direction of water flow and take a pic of it mounted before removing and it's a fairly easy job.
I'll know tomorrow if the seepage slowly filling the tank is resolved (Edit: leak through to fresh water tank continued after cleaning).
I would feel better if I had a spare valve "just in case" or even a manual ball valve.
I'm no ludite. But the bane of most coaches are the "I'm too lazy to get out of the recliner" automatic or remote control stuff.
Carol said it best a few years ago about the fancy toilets. "I don't want a turbo turd 2000 electric toilet"
The fill valves are pretty much standard irrigation valves. The tough thing is that the assembly is a 12V solenoid model and most irrigation valves are now 24V solenoid ones so a drop-in replacement can be challenging to source.
Also, 199x-2001-ish era coaches have a different fill valve than 2002 and later.
That one is floorplan-dependent. If the toilet isn't directly over the black tank, the solution at the time was a VacuFlush. Nowadays, manufacturers are installing macerator toilets (which have their own issues) instead if the toilet isn't in a "go and drop" location.
Jerry I took mine apart cleaned out the calcium and reassembled without issue. Been working fine for years
Still seeping with water fill valve. I found a older post by Michelle with great photos that shows complete disassembly of the valve. I didn't tear down that far, but probably will today.
FIXED - low water flow inside coach - both shore and water pump 2003 U320 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=39137.msg383885#msg383885)
And, of course there is always the KISS solution of replace it with a manual ball valve!
I was thinking that would be the way to go if my valve was totally shot and needed replacing.
I'd be looking carefully at the solenoid plunger seat and spring. Or (less likely) perhaps the solenoid coil.
If you haven't replaced it, that fill valve is around 12 years old...
Might need a change of subject line for this thread, or perhaps a breakout to a new thread?
After complete disassembly of all parts of the fill valve, thorough cleaning, it is still seeping past into the fresh water tank. I will be looking for a replacement with the same overall length (to fit the PEX pipe threads on the valve). Or a trip to the hardware store for pipe fittings to achieve the overall length.
I see lot's of 12 volt irrigation valves on Amazon. I should have measured the inlet and outlet while I had it out of the bay today. 1"? 3/4"?
If unable to source a 12 volt fill valve how about using a 12 volt to 24 volt step up converter to use a 24 volt fill valve? .
2nd edit: found this that Michelle posted around 3 years ago:
Spartan Scientific
PN 4600-01-8212
3/4" NPT / 2-2NC
25MM / 150PSI
12VDC / 10Watts
NITRILE
What is the thread size/type from the pex to the water fill valve?
On the pex end, 1/2" FPT? 1/2" FNPT? 1/2" NPSM?
On connecting in from the fill valve, 1/2" MPT, MNPT, NPSM?
I spent a lot of time on Amazon looking at solenoid valves. Most are not rated constant duty, which I want even though I don't plan to leave it energized long periods of time.
Travelin' Man sent me a link that looks like what I want.
Stainless Steel: 3/4" Inch 12V DC Stainless Steel Solenoid Valve - SS 12 Volts DC (https://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/3-4-inch-ss-12-volt-dc-stainless-steel-electric-solenoid-valve/)
Brass: 3/4'' 12V DC Electric Brass Solenoid Valve 24-Volts (https://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/3-4-12v-dc-electric-brass-solenoid-valve/)
One way flow so won't back feed to water pump.
Duty Cycle
100% but not indefinitely
2.65" length, versus now approx 4.5 to 4.75. Trip to hardware store would make the length up with additional piping.
I just replaced mine with a ball valve and left the panel hiding it off. Now I can see the tank level and it's on door side of coach. I like it (KISS) and haven't changed back.
Dan,
Check the spare parts we gave you. Steve thinks he might have left you the old (original) fill valve after he cleaned it. (I just mentioned your recent repairs to him)
Thanks! The box of parts is buried deep in a storage compartment, but I will take a look
Pulled the box out. Lot's of goodies in there, but no fill valve.
I screwed down the manual cut off and still seeping through, couple of gallons per hour.
I'll plan on replacing. I have a email into Spartan inquiring with them. Edit: no response from Spartan.
Solution on my coach to water fill valve in closed position slowly filling tank.
First, on the old fill valve, cranking down the manual shut off valve a bit more firmly than previously did stop the leak through.
Ordered this valve at recommendaton of Travlin' Man: 3/4'' 12V DC Electric Brass Solenoid Valve 24-Volts (https://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/3-4-12v-dc-electric-brass-solenoid-valve/)
In pics, you can see I had to add 2" to the length of the new valve to reach the PEX fittings.
The 2 fittings equalled 2" once threaded down.
Ace Hardware: 4017491 Hex Nipple 1/2" brass, 4017339 Coupler 1/2" FPT brass
Looks good Dan! Sure hope you left at least two threads free of the Teflon tape on the male threads! If not, bad things can happen.
More like one thread away from the end. I was more careful on the input side than the exit side, being aware I wanted no tape threads into the valve.
The two 3/4 inch fittings threaded into the water fill valve (closest to the actual valve) have a drop of water appearing about one per 5 minutes on the input side and one per 2 minutes on the output side (only when filling the tank on the output side).
I had at least 2 - 3 layers of teflon tape about 3 threads down from the ends, and wrenched the fittings very tight.
I don't want to keep pulling it for re-work as the female input side of the 1/2" attached to the PEX keeps wanting to cross thread when starting it (no teflon tape on those connections). Takes multiple careful tries to get it correctly threaded and avoid cross threading.
I'll pull it one more time, remove the teflon tape from those two fittings, and use plumbers "dope" thread sealer instead. Anyone advise that is correct or advise otherwise?
Many moons ago, I was taught that teflon tape should not be wrapped more than a bit of overlap, not multiple wraps. Granted, we were dealing with vacuum and purified gas systems, not water, but I believe the same guidance applies.
I agree with Michelle. Pipe dope is also a good option.
Pipe dope and don't over tighten the fittings as it's very easy to split brass.
Update on solving the fresh water tank slowly filling when not selected (when connected to shore water):
First, the old fill valve was indeed defective, even after complete disassembly and cleaning. I can blow air through it when it is supposedly closed. I already posted the solution for that above.
Second, the water pump was ALSO back feeding into the fesh water tank when on shore water. I have the Pentair Shurflo 4008-101-E85. The 4008-101-A85 is identical but sold to RV builders, while E model sold to consumers.
I dissasembled the upper housing which looks like this: Amazon.com: SHURFLO 94-800-00 Model 4008 Complete Upper Housing : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SQ4F4V2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1#customerReviews)
8 screws removed, then the 3 screws on the lower left. Pay close attention when taking the cover(s) off of what goes where. I expected some debris or corrosion with the check valve, but none found. Cleaned anyway, re-assembled and now no water pass though to fresh tank (so far)
I plan to get a spare check valve, either inside the pump, or inline on the water line (suction or pressure side).
The 4008 pump check valve has changed over the years. Ordering only the check valve will not work unles your pump is build date newer than approx 2020 according to many reviews. So it will not work for me. Check valve: Amazon.com: SHURFLO 94-800-03 Model 4008 Repair Parts - Check Valve : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-94-800-03-Model-Repair-Parts-Check/dp/B00XKZ31VC/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1AXRU777TNFIF&keywords=4008+check+valve&qid=1702855349&sprefix=4008+check+valve%2Caps%2C266&sr=8-3)
Instead, the complete upper housing must be purchsaed, and it includes the new design check valve, and includes the pressure switch. Amazon.com: SHURFLO 94-800-00 Model 4008 Complete Upper Housing : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SQ4F4V2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1#customerReviews)
Shurflo sells a inline check valve, but it is plastic and several reviewers say it failed and spewed water. Amazon.com: SHURFLO 340-001 in-Line Check Valve : Tools & Home Improvement (https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-340-001-in-Line-Check-Valve/dp/B000BGJWF2/ref=sr_1_2?crid=S3TVAY487SGL&keywords=shurflo+check+valve&qid=1702855475&s=automotive&sprefix=shurflo+check+valve%2Cautomotive%2C223&sr=1-2)
If I go the external check valve route I will buy a metal one way check valve, 1/2" barbs, with clamps.
Other option, buy entire new 4008 pump, approx $65 - $75 on line by shopping around, then keep old one for spare parts. A new one "should" have the new design check valve.
So far the probelm is solved, but I expect the water pump check valve to hang up again in the future.