Was changing the fuel filter and thought I would check the radiator mounts. I think they are OK but this is what the radiator looks like. Is this normal or do I need to replace the radiator? No leaks... A least not yet. I have been trying to go through this thing so we can take extended trips. If it was a car I would replace it, but this would be a pretty big job in the driveway. Unless it is simpler than I think.
On a side note I did not realize it had that little pre filter (found p/n 300200 thank you forum members). So have to find one and order it before I finish the fuel filter replacements.
Looks like salt corrosion.
Was the coach from up north OR did it spend a lot time an a beach near the ocean?
Yes, you will either need to replace it or have it recored. Check with radiator repair shops near you.
Unfortunately, it is not (simpler). It is actually probably a bigger job than you imagine. Search on the Forum for "radiator replacement" to get some idea of what's involved. For instance:
Radiator replacement (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44118).
Radiator replacement (photos) (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30643.msg266868#msg266868)
For now I would lightly wash and then paint.
Yes it is a northern coach. Although not sure how much driven in winter months
The bad fins just effect the cooling and if you aren't having any problem with engine cooling
you could probably get away with it for a while.
In the 70's and 80's, when most radiators were copper, the sulphur in the air in AZ's copper mining towns, over time, would do a radiator in.
That radiator is bad you don't need more trouble if that rad let's go on a trip it will be a big experience and will a shop have time to look at it. it took a month too send my rad to a rad shop and receive it back and if you over heat the engine you may end up with bigger trouble. Right now your radiator is not cooling your engine properly in that shape look up cape bretoner on the the forum I have put pictures of my rad job and plus my Air exchanger in front of the rad was cracked and the hydraulic cool and fuel cool where rotted out too with the Road Salt from up north like my coach you probably have more rot than what you see
It's been in a corrosive environment. Air conditioner condensers do the same thing on the gulf coast. The very thin fins start to corrode away and this decreases efficiency somewhat but I have seen them with 90% of the fins dissolved into dust but still functional, albeit at reduced efficiency, and some of these are running over 600 psi in heating mode.
I'd have it pressure tested, if it passes then gently and thoroughly wash it (Not pressure wash!)with soap and water followed by a rinse with a product like salt away. While I have never painted a radiator, John 44, a guy with vast experience with diesel engines in corrosive environments, offshore drilling platforms, recommends it so I'd paint it.
If it's not overheating and not leaking, I'd do this and run it,. Yes, in a perfect world immediate replacement would be the proper thing to do but it's unlikely the rest of your coach is in perfect shape. I noted another poster recently stated that Atlas Radiator, the mfg of these custom units, is a year out on production so the option to purchase a replacement is limited.
To do this properly wouldn't I have to remove the radiator anyway? Not much of it exposed when in the coach. Maybe could get some washing done. Never had any leaks to this point.
Look at the radiator tanks they are bolted to the rad core if you see dried up pink antifreeze around the bolts or tubes your rad is leaking it does not have to be dripping on the ground . The tubs at the end of the rad core, crack with the vibration and your fins are rotted out. This will let the tubes vibrate more If this starts to leak OR over heat the air passes through the fins to cool the core tubes with your fins that are rotten and missing this it put stress where the tubes connect to the tank depending where you are at it may be an expensive tow job, which the money could've been put towards replacing the rad Any heavy duty trucks rad shop can repair this but they have to order the rad core if they don't have it in stock which probably not that's what takes the time getting parts. all most a month for me I was at home no big panic.if you are mechanically inclined this is not a big job but it's a heavy job I did it my self with a table jack from harbour freight. Or if you had a. Motorcycle jack After the antifreeze is drain and fuel lines, hydraulic line, disconnected I had it out and on the ground its about a mornings work by my self and the rad is about $2500.00 or more plus antifreeze and you should replace all hoses on my job I had to replace all cooler, and radiator hose clamps and theses clamps and all these parts have been in the Salt in all parts about $9000.00 for my job with out my labour I had one rad shop just give it a quick look and price me $15,000 to do the job if they had to replace rad and coolers and I did have to replace all three coolers and rad . Parts and at $150.00 dollars an hour it goes fast I did it myself and it cost me about half give yourself time to shop around not on the side of the road at someone else's mercy it's call preventive maintenance. But do what makes you comfortable I'm just giving you the heads up. I was not expecting the other coolers to also be cracked and rotted out. If it had happens on the road I would have be at someone else's mercy my coach was driven back-and-forth from Canada to Florida by the previous owner each year for ten years in winter conditions it done horrible things under there. There a big difference between a coach driven in the south all its life and one that's been in the north.and what is your travelling plans I just got back from a 9000 mile trip across country and the last thing i would need was a rad problem just giving a few points of my pass experience and please do an air test on the air to air cooler
After I posted, I thought about the recommendation for pressure testing. If you have not been losing coolant, then no need for pressure test. But to answer your question, no need to remove radiator to pressure test the cooling system.
That said, Cape Bretoner and others make a good case for inspection and possible replacement. Its the one sure way to eliminate this possible issue. It's all up to your tolerance level for costs vs risk. There are many potential failure points in older vehicles, and newer ones as well. You can perhaps moderate risk by driving appropriately for vehicle age and condition. i.e., no wide full open towing heavy up Rocky mtn. passes.
I was looking through PO receipts and it looks like this was a re-core that was done in 2007. I left a message with ForeTravel Parts just to see if I could even get one. Waiting to hear back.
Jeff,
Mine looked a lot like yours. I'm currently having mine recored. Currently 1 week into the job. New core on order. Quote is about $4200 for the radiator repair. The shop next door to the radiator repair place is doing the R&R at $100 hr. I'm down near Dayton.
Rich
Your 99 might not be exactly the same, but this will give you an idea of the job: Radiator replacement (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44118)
Thanks Keith. I already had that one bookmarked. Thanks for posting. I will do the same when I do get to replacing it.
Rich is the 4K quote for the entire job or just the recore?
Thank
The manufacturer is Atlas in Texas and I had them direct ship me a radiator one time and in three coaches I had to replace two of them. It's a big job and heavy. I helped on the first one but let MOT do the second one.
This place is worth a try,Huffman Radiator,Sinton tx,361-364-1903,just as good as Atlas,if not better,used them for 30 years
in the oilfield,they could get the prints from atlas.
I had the same thing on my 92 u 300 5 years ago , that's fin rot and it's not going away.
Like others have done I had mine recored at a big radiator shop in billings Mt.
I removed it and they fixed it. I had 14 hours of labor in it. Fun job lol
The $4K is just the recore. The shop next door is doing the R&R at $100/hr.
Rich
I just ordered a complete radiator from altas radiator in corpus cristi tx. Quote was just under $3500 plus shipping. He said it would be spring before I get it but I am okay with that. Talked with him for a while. He was familiar with the mounting issues that have been discussed here on the forum and suggested reinforcing the radiator mounting including the trans cooler.
U320 Radiator oil cooler support (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=43849.0)
I copied Scotts radiator support and built a trans cooler brackets and booth worked out well. the cooler
weighs 60 lbs. so it is a good idea to remove it from the rad, the fans are more than enough weight
hanging from the rad.
Has anyone tryed to upgrade to an aluminum radiator? I have looked at northern radiator at one that looks like it will work with some modification for $ 1700.
Larry at Atlas mentioned about the aluminum radiator. He said these radiators are very dense and that they could not make an aluminum radiator with the same density or something to that effect. I would talk with him before you make that decision.
Just as a follow up finally got the new radiator about a month ago. Plan on doing the replacement after the coach has been winterized. It is a beast of a radiator for sure.
IF you don't mind sharing, what did that end up costing?
$5400 shipped and about a year wait.
Is that for just the rad or the rad and CAC? I paid $4500 shipped for just a rad from FT back in '22.
Just as you see it. The complete package. I think he quoted me just the radiator at about 4K without shipping. So about the same price as you paid with shipping.
Good price I'd say. $1400ish for the CAC seems cheap.
I would much prefer to do myself at home rather than paying someone to change a 1000 miles away from home.
Radiator is out!! No big road blocks. I plan to get a few things done.
Hopefully rebuilding fans if I can find the rebuilt kits. Going to call Berendsen Fluid Power (800) 722-4975 for the seal kit 221.20.034.0K. I do not see this available anywhere online so I hope they have it. If anyone has sourced this part lately let me know where.
Also want to use the idea to support the Trans cooler by the frame using oldguys method (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=43849.50).
Clean up everything and paint it with chassis saver or POR15 whichever I have laying around from car projects.
Replace hoses and clamps.
Welcome any other suggestions as well.
Forum has been a giant wealth of information for this project. Thank you all
Jeff,
All that number that you have is for the shaft seal, no need to buy a Danfoss seal that the sourced from someone. That seal number is a 20/30/7 mm. The CR # is 7905 There is a couple of post as to how to DIY the seal.
Mike
My understanding is that P/N is a complete kit of all the seals and O rings. Like this one on eBay which I hope is way over priced.
DANFOSS 221.20.034.0K /#X K00S 8289 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/176513670394)
Maybe all I have to do is replace the shaft seal??
All you need is the shaft seal which is common seal which Mike gave you the size.
I bought one of the seal kits to get the size of the seal back before the size was known. Members before me had been replacing the motors. I then used just the seal only for the second motor.
Working on it as time permits. All the holes for the brackets were not in the new radiator. Drilled and tapped all the holes and test fit everything. Got the support brackets for the fans in place then Loctite all the bolts then painted everything with Por-15.
Next steps will be to finish the frame mounts for the trans cooler before I move on to installing the radiator.
Made major progress today. All the major parts are in. Have to finish plumbing and then it will be ready for testing. After all this back breaking work it may be a little while before I am motivated again. lol
Finished up today and got it running. Everything was good with the radiator. Saw a drip when I got back from test drive by the trans cooler. Seems like no good luck, it looks like it is a pin hole by where the hose connects. Sheesh I thought I had this done. I think I am going to start another thread on what options I have to fix the next big thing on the list. Discouraging for sure. I think I will wait a while before I can even look at it.
Seeing that depressed me and its not my coach, I'd still be laying on the ground muttering. Of course it has to be at one of the low points of the system, ensuring you would have to drain the entire system to do a full repair.
Curious when you changed everything out, did you also do a Restore flush? Just asking in case there was some Bars Leaks that had masked the problem that got flushed out.
I assume its the same cooler that we have, Rocore 3-1279B which has the BTU rating Allison wants for the "R" retarder series of the 4000. It would have been nice if it was the 5 series (5-7027B) which has the replaceable end caps (bonnets) as you could get those caps fairly cheap.
I've attached a Rocore catalog and BTU data for you, keep a watch on Ebay should you decide to replace the unit. Also a good read Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=38996.0)
Finally had time to get everything back together. I added some chicken wire to the back of the vents for the radiator to help keep debris out. Made sure I had a good seal around it and put all the panels back on. Now on to the next project which is mostly maintenance items.
Jeff,
Next time you have that louvered cover off you might think about using 1/4" hardware cloth rather that chicken wire. You will achieve what you are trying to do better. I just can't help it, you will have verry few chickens get sucked up in there.
Mike
Agree on hardware cloth wire tied to inside of louvers.
Drill out rivets holding louver, replace with removable fasteners.
Driving next to loose grass, etc., cooling fans can act like a vacuum cleaner depositing trash between cooler and radiator.
Everyone should make this preventative modification.
LOL. Never know when you will run into a flock of chickens.
It is what I had laying around. I just wanted to avoid larger debris getting in there. When I removed it was loaded with larger items like leaves and paper. Anything that can get through the chicken wire can easily be washed out. I figured anything is an improvement while I had it apart.