M11 won't start. I believe it's electrical as I'm not getting any data from the engine ECU
but the transmission is giving me data on the Silverleaf. Any ideas and anybody got a wiring
drawing for the ECU
I found a problem. A wire was off the relay that feeds the ECU so I now have data on the Silverleaf
but I can't reset the problem with the Silverleaf.
I finally got the the fault cleared and it still won't start. Changed the fuel filter still no go.
Any suggestions would be helpfull.
Just to be clear the starter is turning the engine over but it won't fire and run.
Mike
Do you have the self priming fuel filter set-up? I changed the fuel filter a week ago and had to prime it twice to get it to start same thing 4 days later. I am hoping that when I drive it all the air will get purged out.
Took me some time to find this old post but this might be worth a check.
Cummins M11 ECM Fuses (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24498.msg191899#msg191899)
Mike
The engine is turning over fine Mike and I have the Fass system Chuck so it is primed fine and
I've checked the fuses Mike. Thanks for the suggestions. I've stopped for the night and hopefully
something will come up.
Just a thought
Have you checked the plug on the cam sensor? If the sensor is oily you might try changing that out.
Mike
Cam position sensor should have an associated code.
Have you tried to start with silverleaf disconnected ?
I have 2 15 amp ECM fuses at the start battery.
Went out this morning and tried again and this fault showed up on the Silverleaf
Engine SID 251 52 power supply Low voltage
So I have a low voltage somewhere?
Tim I see two 5 amp fuses but can't find them.
Ok I forget about the fuses Tim. I have two wires off the battery, one has a one amp fuse and
the other is not hooked up to anything. So I guess I need to find were those two wires are.
Here is a pic of the fuse holders, they both connect to the positive batt terminal.
These are the 15 amp fuses shown in the schematic.
The schematic is for a ISM CM570 ECM
Check your engine battery ground.
My top clamp was worn so bad it would not establish good ground.
I went out and check the two wires from the battery and one is for the voltage regulator and
the other is a wire put in by previous owner which I removed as it isn't hooked up.
The Silverleaf now shows no faults.
Could I have a bad ecm
The low voltage condition has been corrected? See Erniee above.
What about fuel?
The fuel pump outlet line attaches to the top of the fuel pump. If you crack the fitting open while cranking you should find a robust fuel leak.
If not:
To the right of that line is the fuel shutoff valve. It has a wire attached to it. With the key on, remove the wire. Measure for 10.5v min. to ground with the key on.
Assuming the voltage is good, touch the wire to the valve's lug. You should be able to hear, and or feel the valve actuate.
If not replace the valve.
Good luck
I talked to Cummins today and ECM King and they both said the battery in the ECM
is dead.
I was told at one time such a battery existed then later was told it is only a myth. Mine ended up being a platform failure. To this day I dont know about the battery idea. I would think that if there was a battery they would be able to quote a price to replace, but no one does it. I look forward to what you find out.
I did reach out to these people and they said that this ECM could be programmed for our coach.
Programmed Fits Cummins ECM Engine Computer Module 3408501 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/313603893458)
It used to be a NEW ECM cummins Made in CHINA but under the cummins name and branded. It now is unbranded CHINESE Been real interested in it but cautious. For what it's worth my replacement overhauled ECM came with A life time warranty and has works flawlessly but also has like 950K miles on it. I dont believe they overhaul as I know of being overhauled and has always been on the back of my mind. They probably do clear and reflash, but I think that all they do, others will disagree with what I have said.
Scott
RE-READ CURRENT AD. NOT CUMMINS BRANDED ANYLONGER
Who overhauled you ECM
I originally spoke with KING but they required a core and I knew my was junk. Was during COVID and the single only one I could find was threw GOECM
GoECM | Automotive Control Module Repair and Remanufacturing Services (https://goecm.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA-vOsBhAAEiwAIWR0TZuOXiezYlGeNUvA9hFLWf_yY8hr6OvDOxWSveUTHGuduZUH94kyfRoCgiEQAvD_BwE)
Cummins ISM ECM 3681405 – GoECM (https://goecm.com/products/cummins-ism-ecm-3681405)
In stock with 500$ core
Price went down $25
What was the price of the ECM
Having a lot of trouble getting the connectors of the EMC. They are frozen on and don't budge.
Any body have this problem and what was the solution.
Not on ECM's but other frozen connectors Kroil or 50-50 trans fluid acetone mix has helped on other connectors. It penetrates.
I think Rudy had some ECM work done at a well know place in Santa Fe Texas , I think it was this place...Maybe Rudy will chime in.
ECM King - Heavy Duty Truck ECM Rebuilders & Remanufacturers (https://www.ecmking.com/)
Keith
Still working on getting the connectors off the ECM.
EMC king said to use dish soap and I finally go one connector of so two to go.
What size is the allen wrench for the screw holding the connectors together?
No Allen wrench on mine. 7mm hex head bolt.
Still working on removing the connectors. It's been a bitch and I hope I can get them off and
get the ECM back so we can go to Q
Finally got the connectors off and have shipped the EMC off. The last thing I used was salt and
water.
When I saw "Won't start (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=47358.msg480687#new) by oldguy" I didn't notice the "by" and thought for a minute (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=3182)that it said "won"t start old guy." I'm an old guy and I sometimes have a hard time getting started.
Sorry if some of this looks like a link.
The ECM is fine so I will get it back tomorrow or Saturday. So I'm still in the dark.
Have you looked at the fuel system as a possible source of the problem? I had a similar issue with my ISL 8.9, and I originally spent a lot of time checking for electrical issues but the problem turned out to be the fuel pump. While your fuel system is different from mine, I imagine you could still have a problem with fuel delivery.
I have the Fass System and I had good volume to the secondary filter and changed it and the
fuel that I dumped out of the old filter was really clean. The problem first started with the wire
going to the ECU had come off the relay so no power to the ECU.
Do you think you're getting adequate rotational speed? Are you seeing any fuel vapors coming out of the tailpipe? Are you getting power to the fuel solenoid on the pump?
While you have the ECM disconnected, have you checked the voltage at the power pins on the harness? Pin 39 is the ECM logic power, without that the ECM doesn't do anything. I think the wire you first addressed fixed this since it started communicating with the Silverleaf again. The other 4 pin connector is the main power that it uses to fire injectors and actually do things. I'd check that you have good voltage there. The ECM isn't part of the start circuit, so it will crank over even with the ECM missing. It just won't start without the ECM.
That's a great drawing but I don't think it is for my engine. Before when trying to start the engine
I used a separate battery for the ECM to try and start it. I wander how many amps the ECU use as
I could but an ammeter on and check it.
It's a generic drawing for that ECM. Not all sensors and connections are used in all applications, but the power pins are right.
My connections only go to 20 pins in all 3 connectors.
What does your ECM look like the illustration in kgrover's PDF?
That schematic is for an ISB engine. I think your engine is a ISM.
Yes I believe the ISM is a M11
Yes early was M11 later was ISM. Nothing to do with ISB, ISC, ISL completely different engine
Try this one.
Can you post a pic of your ECM?
When it gets back.
This is a schematic for the ISM that is in my U320, the fuel system is a CM570.
The fuel solenoid works. I'm not getting power to it with the key on. Is the fuel solenoid wired through
the ECM or direct wired.
Make sure the engine shutoff button at the rear isn't shorted out.
Check the rear stop button and it seems to be working fine and went its pushed it opens the relay
that feeds the ECU and I checked with a Tone Tracer and it looks like the ECU feeds the fuel solenoid.
It looks like I won't get the ECU until Tuesday. UPS flight problems. It was supposed to be in Point
Roberts today and I guess they don't work on weekend and the place I was to pick it up is closed
Mondays.
Looks like the fuel supply solenoid could be powered off connector C pin 16 on the ECM. So without the ECM, it wouldn't have power. That is if the second schematic I posted matches your engine.
Post 45 is the same as mine. I missed it when I tried to find it the other day. I will start looking at
it. Thanks
I think the M11's and ISM's need to see oil pressure before they will turn on the fuel.
I put in a preluber so I have oil pressure before I turn the engine over.
Also looking for rotational speed as I recall. Do you see any RPM to the silverleaf while cranking?
Curious if anything was said about the internal ECM battery?
Cummins ISM ECM 3681405 – GoECM (https://goecm.com/products/cummins-ism-ecm-3681405)
Ah,, I didn't know there is/was one!
Where is it?
Mine is a CUMMINS CELECT PLUS ECM 3408300
When I open the engine door it is right at the top near the start button and oil light.
The relay that the wire was off has nothing to do with the ECM. I have keyed power to the ECM. According
to the drawing I'm to have 4 wires call unswitched battery 12 v pin 20, 21, 22, 23. Anyone know where the
power comes from.
Directly from the battery?
Not on my coach. The only thing on my battery is from the voltage regulator. I have been trying
to use a tone tracer but so far I haven't had any luck.
What do the two fuses feed that are behind the engine. One has full voltage and the other won't
light up a test light. If I use a voltmeter I get nine volts and and if I use an LED test light it goes down
to 3 volts. I know the engine will not start with those fuses gone.
The ECU unswitch leads give out 4 volts and with LED test light nothing. Out of the 4 connectors
they are paired with two common circuits. I think I have a very bad connection somewhere.
I now have power to the fuse behind the engine and at the unswitch connectors for the ECM.
There is a connector just below the fuse holders and I was trying to get it apart and then thought
I would check fuse again and found power. I haven't gotten the connector apart yet but I bet its
all corroded inside. Just after I got the coach it wouldn't start and the fuse holder was corroded.
We now know that the two fuse holders connects with two pairs of unswitched connectors in the EMC
^.^d
I've now got power to the EMC connector. Got the connector apart saw a little corrosion inside but
when I started to replace it the 2 hot wires fell out of the connector. All there was green corrosion.
kgrover thanks for the drawing it made a huge difference for trouble shooting. I don't know if I
would have found the problem with out it.
I figured out last night that the the 2 fuses behind the engine feed two pairs of the connectors in the
ECM. The 4 unswitched connectors in the ECM are paired so two the connectors goes to one fuse
and the other two go to the other fuse. The power andthe ground comes from the two posts that are
on the frame right off the battery and they are #8 wire. The ECM uses a lot of current. I clean up #65
post to state this.
There was also problems with one of my fuse holder so I replace both with 30 amp holders using 15
amp fuses.
Were you able to confirm a start?
I will pick up the ECM today and we are all packed to leave tomorrow morning hopefully.
I will post when I have it running.
It started right up and the coach is out on the street with the toad hitch up and ready to head to
Q. We will leave at 6:30 AM. Knowing what I know now It would have taken me an hour to figure out
what was the matter and I would have gotten 4 days of skiing in.
ECM King were really good to work with. The engine got us down to Q today.