No Shore Power (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=39509.msg481347;topicseen#new)
I am experiencing the exact same issue as Dan, identical to how he described it four years ago. We needed to rearrange some items in our garage, providing a good excuse to take the coach out for a short run. About an hour later, I put it back in the garage and connected it to the same 50-amp outlet with the progressive EMS as usual. However, all of a sudden there is no shore power.
No lights on the factory line monitor from shore power, everything is identical to what Dan did, so there is power coming in, but the relay is not clicking to allow power through. I messed around with the hi/lo settings on that orange box (inside the Maverick ATS), but that did not yield the same result—still no shore power to the coach.
Considering T-Man's experience, should I proceed to order that orange voltage monitoring device, or are there other things I should be looking at beforehand?
Thanks,
Al
Dan, Thank you for your replay ( I moved it here thinking it would be best, since yours at the top has "solved"
" Have you read voltage on input side of the ATS and output side of the ATS (white box in reply 15 above)? What voltage?
With your progressive EMS, is it on the shore outlet before the power cord, or hardwired inside after the Maverick system? If the ems is external does it show voltage displays?
If your coach ATS white box in reply 15 has acceptable voltage power on input but none at all on output, I would try marking both orange boxes with current setting, then try adjusting both the hi and low pots (once again).
Does a light rap on the ATS have any affect? In other words, could the ATS itself be sticking with nothing to do with the 2 orange boxes.
All wiring on ATS and orange boxes tight and well connected?
As you know, when working with live power use insulated tools, no rings on, and careful placement of hands/tools.
Your progressive ems and the 2 orange boxes have the same task of only letting acceptable voltage into the coach so are redundant. (With the progressive also having other capabilities beyond just voltage)."
So yes, there is power on the input side and reads same (122-124) and/or 1 or 2 volt lower than what the external plugged Progressive EMS.
You wrote "So power was on the input side, but ATS relay was not clicking to let power through. The reason the relay would not engage was the orange hi/low voltage relay in the picture attached. A slight adjustment on the high voltage pot (right side of the orange module) allowed the ATS relay to engage." I wonder how low and high I can set it, as low as 110 and as high as 170-180 and see what happens (with nothing on in the coach / no demand)?
The external progressive ems will protect the coach. You can adjust the 2 orange pots quite a bit since they are redundant.
However I would mark the pots adjustment first, then try a wide range. If no effect, I would return them to original setting.
If the orange pot adjustment has no effect, then I would suspect the large white shore power ATS as well as the orange device.
Have you tried disconnecting shore power, then try a gen run to see if power makes it into the coach?
While you do have the Progressive unit to protect the coach for shore power, it does not protect if there's a voltage issue with the generator and should you ever have an issue with the Progressive EMS and need to put it into bypass mode, you'll need to rely on the transfer switch limits. Those Maverick transfer switch pots can be safely adjusted to no less than 108 on the low and 132 on the high, which is the 120VAC +/- 10% that's safe for things like your air conditioners and microwave. Going outside that range is not recommended even with the Progressive unit in place for those 2 reasons (protection for generator power issues and Progressive bypass mode).
ETA - another reason not to adjust those pots too far out with the external Progressive is that when you go in for service and they plug the coach in, they're not going to be using the external surge protector.
The hardwired Progressive EMS 50 amp is so much nicer as the monitor shows error codes when it does not let power in. The voltage parameters on it are shut off below 104 volts, and above 132 volts.
For anyone wondering what devices are being discussed, this in basement bay behind a panel.
If it turns out you need the relay, it's not cheap these days (up about $60 since I've been watching them over the last 3 years). My coach has had a few times where it would not take power from the shore power and in some cases just pushing in on the white center part of the adjuster would get it to turn on. Sometimes it took a few thumps and other times I had to rotate the knobs, then coming back to the original setting.
ATC Diversified Electronics - VBA-120-ALA - Votlage Monitoring Relay,... (https://us.rs-online.com/product/atc-diversified-electronics/vba-120-ala/70225630/?keyword=70225630)
Al - does the coach have power when you run the generator? I didn't see it mentioned.
On a 2003, the primary/priority power source is generator, so the relay that passes power to the coach will need to be "pulled/energized" by power on shore input. As Dan suggests (tapping), one of the relays could be sticking or may have failed.
Shore power also goes through the Intermatic surge protection device.
YES :-) Got power as normal when Generator run. Intermatic Surge Protection lights came on too with power from Generator.
OK, so it's probably not the orange hi/low pots.
Seems like one of the Siemens relays/contactors might be the issue. That would be what Dan suggested tapping. It could be the generator not releasing or the shore not pulling closed. Or it could be debris/corrosion/etching on the contacts in the shore power contactor (relay).
Maverick transfer switch, need Siemens Sirius contactor part number (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21248.msg157631#msg157631)
transfer switch will not engage on shore power (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=38632.0)
SIEMENS Shore side inside ATS will not engage and when forced manually will not stay latched (https://youtube.com/shorts/cXHmWdWX4GI?si=8_2Wr9LEM8l3cidz)
Looks like I need to get a 3RT1045-1A?
First, with all power removed, no gen no shore, I would check all wiring contact points for tightness and corrosion. You "could" even switch the incoming shore power lines and gen power lines on the two white ATS boxes. If the problem moves (shore gets through, gen does not) then you know for sure it is the ATS white box.
Make real sure no power on either set of lines if you try the swap test. Take photos in advance of the wiring scheme and perhaps mark each wire with tape/pen.
And the link Michelle posted has things to look at: transfer switch will not engage on shore power (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=38632.0)
Just watched your you tube video. Looks like you found the defective part.
If it were me, I would still try switching incoming power between the two of them to be 100 percent sure. Plus, if that is it, that way you can be on shore power via the gen labled device until parts show up.
Tom Lang said: "It appears the 3RT1045-1A was only made with a 120 volt coil. I could only find one on eBay, and it was used.
It is now made with a number of coil voltages, the 120 volt version being 3RT1045-1AK60"
Maverick transfer switch, need Siemens Sirius contactor part number (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21248.msg157631#msg157631)
If it all works on the generator, then perhaps the priority relay is not switching. You have power to the input of the ATS, and you know the voltage is within range and the range relay works with the generator. I had to replace mine. Here's the link to one vendor: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-potter-brumfield-relays/T92P11A22-120/365926
Thank you Keith. When I push and hold down the 4/black things (don't know what they are called, I posted a video in my replay #11) works, however magnet is not holding it down. I found a video ATS Magnetic Contactor Teardown & clean (https://youtu.be/Fq5GC5zCOiw?si=UdqYx9OgTkARUAc-) I plan on taking it apart today and see how it goes.
On the contact there are two terminals for the coil. When the coil gets power it pulls the contacts in. If you have power on these terminals and contacts are not pulled in you have a bad coil. They use to be able to buy new coil and install. Not sure that can still be done.
Basically you are manually actuating the ATS to connect the contacts from the input to the output.
I don't have my manual here, but if you have yours, look at the wiring schematic. There is a wire from the priority selection relay that tells the shore power ATS not to connect if the Gen input has power. As a test, WITHOUT your generator running, you could swap these. This would now give priority to the shore power instead of the generator. Since that is the default, if the relay is bad, now the shore power will work and the generator will not.
Now you are telling me this :-) I just took the whole thing out and on the bench (See pictures). I am going to clean it tomorrow and maybe put it back in the coach, or I may just test it without completely installing it in its place (I have 6AWG and 4 AWG wire I can create sort of jumper cable — trust me, I can pass as an electrician on a good day.
Questions:
If I decide to chuck the Maverick ATS box and convert to a manual switching system, what would I have to get? I don't know what to shop for.
If I do that, what will need to happen to the Maverick box that is under the bed (see picture with yellow "under the bed")?
Thank you,
Al
For resale, I would recommend repair or replace of an automatic transfer switch, not a manual set of switches. Once you start deviating from expected, you limit your potential buyer pool (and make it more difficult for service techs who expect a "normal" transfer switch.) And remember, you don't want the generator backfeeding into shore power, so you need to make sure manual ones lock out that possibility.
The second transfer switch under the bed is for shore/inverter input to the inverted circuits. It happens to be the same "brand", but isn't directly affected.
Thank you Michelle. I am no longer overly concerned about resale value of anything I have ;) I try to make things better than how I found it while making it easier and long lasting for my own use. I am hoping I can fix the Maverick ATS but if I could not, what are my options, Maverick is no longer in business. Thank you, Al
!
After a good night's sleep: The Maverick ATS is simply the box, designed and fitted quite well, and easy to work on. All the parts inside are still relatively available. As I prefer to maintain all things as original as possible, I hope to get some more service out of the Maverick ATS.
Progress
Well, I cleaned, checked, and reassembled it. Then, I installed it back in the coach, but unfortunately, there is still no shore power. Before I resort to replacing parts, could you please review the pictures of the Relay (T92P11A22-120) and inform me of the potential consequences if I swap the Red (Shoreline) and White and Black (Generator) wires for testing? I believe this component controls the priority order.
Thank you,
Al
This is just the priority relay, so as long as the gen is not running while you are also trying to get shore power to go through, I don't think there is anything you can hurt.
well no good :-(
I replace the priority (black) relay then the coil too, still not working :-(
The next part I will order is the orange voltage monitor, but since it works when generator run, then voltage monitor should be good, no?
The orange Voltage Monitor performs for Shore and Gen power, correct? So since mine is working with Generator, then the Orange Voltage Monitor probably is good or it is good for Gen pins and not good for shore pins?
I talk to FT today, I may end up replacing the Maverick ATS with South wire 40350-rvc
It should. Check the schematics on the cover of the Maverick ATS. We did replace the one in ours sometime around 2010.
If you replace the entire transfer switch, I strongly recommend you install a hardwired Progressive EMS at the same time, especially if the new transfer switch doesn't have over/under and surge protection.
I'm not familiar with Southwire. ETA - I just Googled and see they make the SurgeGuard models. I do know a number of SOB owners had issues several years ago with SurgeGuard's transfer switches - connections working loose more often than usual, wires overheating. That may be different now since it seems Southwire is fairly ubiquitous in the RV industry.
Just got of the phone with FT. While they believe the Maverick ATS is/was superior, they are replacing them with Southwire. Best I understood that if I had taken it to them, they would not troubleshoot and/or replace the parts inside the Maverick box, but replace it with southwire. The Southwire appears to be widely used by Class A/B/C/Super-C makers now, hence I think it will be available for sometime. Eventually I may get the Southwire ATS, but I am going to go ahead and order the Orange Voltage Monitor and see what happens. From FT Technical Support help, I understood that since the shore power is used more times than Gen side, the Voltage Monitor replacement could solve the issue. And back in 2010 it did fix your too, so I am hopeful :-) Besides I can remove and reinstall the Maverick with with my eyes close now :-) , but I don't have to take the entire box out to replace the Voltage monitor ;) Wish me luck :-)
The voltage monitor relay is there as a safety, to keep your ATS from connecting your coach to low or high voltage. If you are in a location where you know the power is correct and consistent, bypass the voltage limiting relay to ensure the rest of the stuff works with it out of the way. If it all works, then the relay is the issue. If not, it's one more variable out of the way until you find the actual issue.
How do I bypass it? just unplug small white & red wires coming from the relays?
I'm going from memory here, not looking at mine or the schematic so someone can check or correct me, but there is power in to the relay and power out of the relay plus a ground (for it to reference the voltage against). If the voltage is too low or too high, the relay doesn't let close and send voltage out, so tying the input and output together will bypass it.
Resolved! The issue was with the Orange Voltage Monitor; it turned out to be the faulty part. :-)
Glad you got it figured out and repaired. Just bypassed, or new one?
Me too! :-) Thank you, I got a new voltage monitor.
Along the way, the first thing I learned is that the Maverick ATS is still superior to what's currently available new, for the most part. Therefore, it was well worth my time to restore it. Now, I also have spare parts for it, and I was able to save some money.
If it happens again while we are on the road, I now also know how to deal with it, except I don't know how to test/bypass the voltage monitor; I will work on learning that.
Without removing all three wires (from shore, generator, and to the coach breaker box) from the ATS box and completely removing the ATS box from its location, one cannot remove the Siemens switches. However, you can replace the orange voltage monitor and the priority relay without removing the wires and the box.
Removing the wires and the box is not a big deal (it was not for me due to its easy access location in my FT).
Persistence paid off. We all learned something from your ordeal. Now on to the next thing.