UPDATE: Not good news at the bigdog residence. AH tech came by and found that at some point we must have contacted the ground with the AH exhaust pipe. The muffler clamp is bent and the exhaust pipe is shoved backwards. The impact ruptured the tank. So we in fact did lose all the burner fluid over time and the burner and electric element kept trying to heat nothing. Everything is fried badly. So we are left with a heck of an issue. AH doesn't rebuild these old models. And here we sit 1,500 miles from home with no hot water or ability to shower.
Suggestions from the brain trust is appreciated. Do we look for an old AH? buy a new one and have the required relay bridges built to adapt it? Or just walk away and sell the coach as a BIG project?
Our first move will be to call our insurance to start a claim for the impact damage. Although that might be problematic making a $20K new AH claim given the retail value of this old coach might be $35-$40K.
One good note. Our genset does not have a bad stator and just needs a new voltage regulator. Voltage was swinging from 158V to 11V.
Well Jerry, one of the things that will stop both heat sources is low coolant in the heater tank for your model of heater. Get into the basement, access the heater, remove the radiator cap located on top of the tank. The fluid level should always be lipping full. If not fill with 50/50 engine coolant or just distilled water in a pinch. Check radiator cap, if needed, replace with 13 lb from auto parts store. Check the overflow line at the radiator cap. Must be supple with no splits and have a hose clamp. If split, remove, cut off an inch or so and reattach.
Now, the low coolant has allowed the reason of no heat to be the two high limit thermostats to open. They are located behind a cover just above the burner. If being popped is the reason of the no heat, they must be replaced. They do not have a reset button.
If this checks out, call me after 8 am central. Please have a Volt Ohm meter with one lead grounded and we will see if we can sort it out.
Again, after 8 am CENTRAL. I am willing to help from 8 to 8. Got a call last night at 6:30 pm Pacific, 8:30 Central. I just will not answer outside of 8 to 8 unless we have discussed your need to talk beyond those times earlier.
I have helped a person that called at 4 pm pacific to share he would be home at 6:30 pm pacific. Could I help him then to which I agreed.
All the best as you get going again.
Coolant is fine. So like you said Rudy. Likely one of the limiters has gone away and shut down everything. Fortunately it is warm (84F) here in Tucson, so the heat strips easily take away the AM chill. Just no showers right now.
I have a mobile AH guy coming on Tuesday.
I'll post up what the tech finds.
Personally, if I found one of the thermostats bad, I'd temporarily bypass it to see if the AH would work. If it did start working, I'd let it heat for a while, take a shower and disconnect it again. Check with Rudy to see if that's ok.
I asked the tech question here looking for any quick fix things to look for while we waited the short time till the tech arrives. (He is also fixing our genset) if the tech were not just a couple of days out, I would def be diving deeper under the AH hood and messing around with the great info Rudy and the forum graciously provides.
Our friends at the park have offered up their coaches showers.
Posted our issue in the tech forum. But it has moved to being a ruined AH and where to go from here.
To recap. From the bent exhaust clamp and said exhaust being pushed back which ruptured the tank. It is clear that the pipe hit the ground/pavement. So all the fluid leaked out (over flow tank shows full) and the burner as well as the electric element kept on try to heat. Needless to say. Everything was massively hot and much was literally fried. We are lucky it didn't start a fire.
So our choices have come down to: Starting a claim (which we will do) with our insurance to see if we are covered for this type of road accident. And if we are covered, Will it be a total loss because of the retail value of this coach compared with a new AH?
Find an old used AHE-100-02S unit to install?
Or just walk away and sell the coach as a project/parts for someone more monied than we are who has a coach barn/tools to take on such a project.
Have read that a new unit adapted to an old coach is a massively expensive thing to do ($20K)
As always. Any suggestions from the forum are welcome and much appreciated.
That sucks.
My #1 suggestion would be to review the situation with Rudy.
Perhaps Copart in Kentucky has one?
When looking at replacement options in January, I found a tested used unit at Visone RV...it was under $7K shipped. Right now they only have 01S and 04S units but they get a lot of turnover. Don't know the differences between the -02S but Rudy probably does.
https://rvappliances.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/f/rvfurnaces.pl?
That sucks big time Jerry! Michelle is spot on with getting Rudy's help on this.
First Rudy..!!
Talked to Rudy on the phone. Looks like a trip to Houston might be in order to have a new unit from John Carrillo installed.
Not too keen on big cities, But you have to do what needs doing.
Queston for Rudy:
In a case like this, is it better in any way to install a new Oasis instead of a Aquahot?
Loss/gain? $$$??
Dan, the Oasis is a good heater. But the change over will take time to install. A reman from Carrillo is plug and play, one day deal. All wires are replaced in the same location as are pipes and fuel lines. Nothing needs to be rerouted or abandoned due to 2 zone pumps instead of 3.
I believe a reman will be less money, less hassle and provide fine service and longevity. Now, a new Oasis vs a new Aqua Hot 600D, price and hassle gets to be nearly the same.
My choice is always a reman from Carrillo over new anything. One year warranty on the entire heater.
If your coming from the east you get to Rudy before Houston
Keith
No such luck. We are in Tucson headed to Walla Walla Wa. Via Rudy's in Houston. Adds 2,000 miles to the 1,300 mile trip home. But what ya gonna do with a ride that needs major fixing?
After coming from the west and all the nightmare traffic- Rudy's place is an oasis
Look at this as a positive.
You will get to meet the famous Rudy.
On the way to Houston you can stop at Buc-ee's between San Antonio and Houston.
While in Houston you can visit Nasa and Galveston.
While here, Nacogdoches is only about 180 miles north east and you could check out FOT, MOT, and go by and meet Keith.
If you drive through at around 4 AM during the week, traffic isn't bad.
Remove it and fix it.. Its not hard just getting it out and putting it back in. Rebuild it while you are in it. Tank can be welded and the parts are not too bad overal to update wrap with new copper.
Search the forum and you will find a couple people who have done it.
I'm thinking of getting an autographed 8X10 from Rudy :))
As for traffic. We will simply put on the extra miles to go well around all the naughty bits. We have a cousin in Flatonia (between San Antonio and Houston) So a family stop will be nice.
Already met the MOT folks a few years ago (2018) when they checked on our bulkheads and installed new airbags and Koni's.
Also got our genset regulator ordered. (mo money) It was not an easy process with Powertech. The data plate for my Genset is missing. So powertech was ZERO help. And a prior owner had GLUED the current regulator to the electric box :facepalm: So I had to attack it with a prybar to remove it and find I have a Basler 63-4.
Makes me want to prefer propane furnace and propane hot water tank equipped coaches. AH is great for heating coach interior and water, but have unique expensive issues, especially for older coaches. How about keeping coach, using electric space heaters, roof heat pumps, electric blanket, and electric hot water heaters. Some have installed add on diesel-powered heaters.
Having had both, we much prefer hydronic heat and hot water, and will never have another coach that has propane.
This failure was not the fault of the Aqua-Hot unit. This issue lay at the feet of Foretravel itself. How? one might ask. Well, in the goal to maximize bay storage. Foretravel hung a water pipe exhaust that sits about 2"-3" below the belly skin smack in the middle under an already low riding coach with very soft suspension. It then runs feet towards the front then crosses over to the drivers side. All it took was a bump that bottomed the suspension or a steep transition between roads and parking lots to shove that pipe back and tear the weld where that pipe enters the boiler tank.
If your coming from the east you get to Rudy before Houston
Keith
There is a bucees about 2 miles from Rudy also in Baytown .....
Keith
Almost every coach maker does this routing of the AH exhaust since that's where AH put the exhaust nipple. Unless the AH is mounted to the side, that exhaust routing is not avoidable IMHO. Just watch what you're driving over and avoid the boulders.
However, my PO had the AH rebuilt and either freight company or the tech who did the R&R cracked a boiler/exhaust pass through weld some how.
RV'ing sure is fun.
RV'ing is fun. Despite some of the issues we RV'rs face.
I just object to a rubbish design and I'm not afraid to say so. Guess I'm odd that way.
Jerry I dont see why we couldnt have a flexible section that would screw into the bottom of the aqua hot and transition to the cross tube. Also getting away from plumbing pipe for exhaust to light exhaust tubing would also crush easily. Would be noisier. If you reinstall the old exhaust you will be back were you started. Downside is it wont take any abuse. Rudy had advised me to go to two inch tubing and delete muffler when I repaired mine. It is a little noisier but not an issue were be boondock. Looks like 18 gauge steel or stainless is available. .0478 Thick. Also some 20 gauge stainless 2" x 20 Ga Straight Tubing 321 (https://profabrication.com/2-x-20-ga-straight-tubing-321/)
As Rudy is ramrodding my installation at his place just over a week from now. That might be a thing to do. The area that hit was at the muffler U-clamp and that very thick plumbing 90 degree (see picture) I have done an insurance claim at Progressive. But I have to have Mr. Carrillo at heat my RV do a post mortom cause of death report.
Finally got our new Aqua-Hot installed.
Boy did John Carillo make some well thought out updates to this old AHE-100 model. Such as a zero pressure boiler tank. hot water lines that are immersed in the boiler fluid instead of wrapped on the outside. Elbows in the copper lines are now supported. The tempering valve is in the open instead of under the burner-motor.
Working around Rudy was a pleasure and Rudy's wife Caroline is fun to be around. She has a great sense of humor. Over the last 4 days Rudy & Caroline have taken us to some local eateries that served up some great food.
Keith (HDFF on the forum) rode his hog over from his place to say hi. That was cool of him to do that.
And our cat Kimmie provided some entertainment with her antics chasing bugs and running around the turf field.
Now for the delayed by a month 2100 mile slog home.
I assume it uses the different boiler fluid like the newer units.
In case anyone's wondering why, with the hot water lines in direct contact with the boiler fluid, the fluid has to be the potable (non-toxic) type.
Can you share the cost of this huge improvement/upgrade?
TOO DANG MUCH. Our old AH (which was running superbly) did a Chernobyl on us from hitting the exhaust pipe on a road transition coming out of an RV park and causing a tank weld to break and the fluid to leak out. Which In the end massively overheated everything.
The new unit, fluid and R&R was around $10K. Plus the drive from Tucson to Rudy's.
But Rudy is the man, is 100% trustworthy and brimming with AH knowledge. It was worth every cent to have him in charge of my AH replacement.
I'm a little confused. Did you get a whole new Aquahot unit or did they completely re-engineer the one you had within the old AHE-100 cabinet? Any pictures?
George, he got a reman Aqua Hot that is plug and play replacement. Some parts are secured better than the original part. His old heater was shipped back as a core. So total replacement. One year warranty on everything in the heater, too.
And just to be clear and fair to Aqua-Hot. The issue with my old AH going up in smoke
WAS NOT the fault of the AH. A lip entering a highway in Nevada hit the exhaust. We have a comprehensive claim with our insurer.
I have seen ah units that say on the outside 100RM. Are these the new remanufactured units or another type?
Pic
RM100 is a reman heater
and Rudy, That is the type that was installed in Bigdogs unit? or was this someting different.
I use reman from a Aqua Hot guru. RM100 from AH is same heater but takes a month to month and a half turnaround. Mine is done in one day and I like the mounting of items better.
Brand new 600D in your coach requires extensive modifications to install
Rudy
Thanks for the explanation
We seem to have air in zone one and getting steam bubbles backing out from the boiler into the overflow tank. Mr. Carrillo said it's a common issue when installing the new style zero pressure Aqua-Hots as they are super sensitive to air in the system. So Carrillo will redo the air purge process.
UPDATE: It was indeed air in the line that created a vapor lock and backed up the fluid into the expansion tank. Lost about 1.5 gallons.
Mr. Carrillo gave me a full tour of his operations and even told me about a new modification he will be using soon. Also got a detailed comparison of the old style Aqua-Hots to the reman mods he uses. Super nice guy. As was the entire crew.
As you all know. We went through an Aqua-Hot failure this season.
But what I found out after John Carrillo tore down the old unit was that it doesn't look like it failed from bumping the exhaust entering that highway in Nevada. It seems to have failed from the tank leaking on the side. Which means it looks as if it rusted through. Which seems odd as it was rebuilt by Aqua-Hot in 2017. Which cost us $8K. 6 years of use for a $8K (rebuild) plus the yearly service is some very expensive hot water. Yep! $1,600 per year for hot water and heat is pretty steep.
So I guess that when Aqua-Hot says it "REBUILDS" one of their units. It actually means only repairing what failed and nothing further. Which of course IS NOT A REBUILD. That is called a repair. So apparently the tank had rust in it or was damaged removing the mastic/water coils and they threw it back together and called it good.
Thankfully Aqua-Hot does not rebuild these old units anymore. So at least they can't bilk anyone anymore for their shoddy business practices.
We are very fortunate to have someone (John Carrillo heatmyrv) that does what Aqua-Hot should have done. Do an actual rebuild and even more importantly, think of ways to improve the unit.
bigdog,
I merged your AquaHot replacement threads into the original topic. It's best to keep all information in one topic for future searches.
Thanks Michelle, I was (am) pretty pissed at Aqua-Hot and wasn't thinking.