Last Christmas our friends brother who is a OTR trucker got talking about engines, motorhomes and trucks. He has a Volvo and rebuilt his engine with over a million miles on it and is now replacing his engine after nearly one and a half million miles on it. It was pre DEF and he said he has only ever used Lucas additive which stops the injectors and the valves failing, and increases power and mpg.
I know everyone has their favorite additive and I have tried a good few of the additives that have been suggested here, (I always have additive in my fuel) .
Based on his comments I tried Lucas Fuel Treatment on our 1500 mile trip this month.
Our Silver Leaf has always had us averaging 8.5 mpg and 8.3 mpg if there are mountains. This trip doing a constant Speed of 65/67 mph we averaged 9 mpg for the first time since we got the coach 5 years ago. I feel that there was more power on the mountains between NC and Tennessee and we made a fuel savings which more than paid for the treatment.
Fuel Treatment – Lucas Oil Products, Inc. – Keep That Engine Alive! (https://www.lucasoil.com/product/fuel-treatments/)
Amazon.com: Lucas Oil 10013 Fuel Treatment - 1 Gallon : Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/LUCAS-LUC10013-Gallon-Ounces-Treatment/dp/B000FW7V50/ref=asc_df_B000FW7V50/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312147482150&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1613591425352859192&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015856&hvtargid=pla-382138166806&psc=1&mcid=471e55c642c93dd187e37c8e83ef3e23&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=65039680554&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312147482150&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1613591425352859192&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015856&hvtargid=pla-382138166806&gclid=CjwKCAiArfauBhApEiwAeoB7qC5BuR_pZOKgCS3jhPOnwzyFx85Xag3bJqG8k5UGJrye70TZubDjhxoCSGEQAvD_BwE)
I've run the Lucas in the every diesel I've owned. Hard to measure, but it certainly can't hurt.
I use POWER SERVICE DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT Endorsed By Cummins - I use this supplement to remove any water condensation in the fuel.a mechanic at a dealer told me that water was the worst enemy for an injector pump that this stuff would remove water or condensation from fuel standing in the fuel tank. that water condensation buildup from fuel temperature changes in tank. that water can ruin an injector pump so I use it on a regular basis I believe it also helps lubricate the system . At the price of an injector pump and labour and injectors easy at $10,000 jobs it is worth the added cost of the fuel supplement. I have also in the past use Lucas additive's and oil products but since this one is endorsed by Cummings, I have been using it which the dealership was selling. I haven't see a fuel mileage increase using additives that I can say wow but I do believe it's a maintenance help. The diesel fuel with ethanol I question the lubrication in the fuel, I use it because a Cummins dealer was selling it and recommending it.
OK. My flame proof suit is on. :))
The B50 life of the M11 celect plus is north of 500,000 miles. Which means that one can expect to do what is called an in-frame rebuild. I.E. New rings and bearings with no boring of cylinders or crank or rod bearings. And this mileage rating is while pulling an 80,000lb load.
Even 250,000 miles is exceedingly rare in coaches. But to get to the B50 point is Unicorn rare in a coach. The biggest issues our engines face is old fuel with algae build up from lots of sitting still in a shed, lack of oil changes and improper driver technique. Improper driving means drivers who 'think' you have to lug at low rpm's and full throttle up hills. Which makes for super high EGT and oil temps. No additive can make up for that kind of abuse.
Bottom line. Under the light duty and low mileage conditions our motors face. Additives (other than algae killers) are more a personal pref than a necessity for a long engine life in a coach application. I increased my fuel mileage by .75 MPG by returning to my trucking days where I shifted gears. The Allison is rubbish in the hills as it wants to keep the engine at 1100 RPM on a hill. And this is in the 'sport' mode. It's even worse in 'econ' mode.
We drive our coach 10 months every year and when it does sit for the other two months, we are living in it in Arizona. Haven't even put algae killer in it in years as we move a lot of fuel through it.
To add to Jerry's post the dreaded b-20 that most fuel stops now have adds back some of the lubricity that the low sulfur took away.
I think we are on different subject here .Irish is talking about Fuel mileage using Fuel additives I'm talking about the fuel system, protecting injector pump, Fuel injectors from water and condensation in the fuel by using additives and yes there is fuel additives for fuel Algee I use it every time I store my coach for the winter, We are not talking about oil additives to add engine life I don't expect to ever have to do a motor job on my coach don't put enough mileage on it at 10,000 miles a year just protect water from getting in the fuel system.and Keeping fuel system lubricated with the new diesel fuel that is coming on the market . The oil system is serviced regularly and the air filter most important. and is probably neglected the most as me and dad (Dave) have found out .
I also drove truck most of my life and I was told to operate the engine in operation range at the lower end of the gear you are cruising the lower the RPMs the less fuel you were burning The Allison Transmission computer knows when to shift at its lowest RPM into a lower gear again the lower the RPM the less Fuel you are burning we are not talking about a standard transmission , we are talking about a automatic Allison transmission with a computer brain. A Cummins engine you have to operate it in range if it falls out of the lower range you loose your torque a Cat you can lug it right down it keeps its torque at the lower rpm the torque hangs on. The lower the rpm the less fuel you are burning that's why we have gears the higher, the gear the faster you go, would less RPM But for power, the Lower the gear, and the higher the RPMs, the more fuel you are burning. Standard transmission you have to know your gear for your driving condition they would teach us progressive shifting how to ease our way up though the gears for fuel mileage where as an automatic is doing it for you
This is my thought of thinking I have been proven wrong before.
Interesting subject torque and HP and transmissions and hill climbing. It is of course complicated. But HP and torque work together. One can be at the very beginning of peak torque and be low enough in the HP curve that you can't maintain the RPM to keep it at peak torque. HP does work over time.
I posted a graph of a high HP/torque Cummins engine. While it's not an M11. It shows that you certainly wouldn't want to pull a hill at 1850lbs torque@1100RPM with 'only' 385HP helping out. Better to be at 1850Lbs torque@1400-1500RPM with 'oh boy' 500HP helping out.
Our M11's have a very wide torque curve. So if you run in the higher HP RPM area while still in the high torque curve RPM area. You will not need to be at max throttle throwing more fuel to the fire to climb a grade. The higher HP will assist the torque to climb.
And of course spinning the engine a bit faster assists in coolant circulation to dissipate heat.
Hello all... when I purchased my coach, 99' 295 w/8.3, last October , the PO had a bottle of Biocide algae inhibitor that he used in the fuel. I recently just used up the last of it, just putting a couple ounces in on fill ups. The coach was purchased from a high heat, high humidity area, Texas, and was stored most of the time. So the product may have been needed. Don't, know...My question is, now that the coach is living in Phoenix area, and is not stored more than a month at a time, do I need any additives added when filling up? If so what does everyone use? Thanks....
As far as what to use, Biobar JF is a common one.
My rule is, if storing fuel more than 3 months in winter or 2 months in summer, I add it. The only other time is if algae is seen in the clear bowl of the fuel filter.
I do not add it every fill up.
My opinion would be use Diesel Kleen at every fill-up,is good for the engine,have used the algae treatment but from what I
remember you have to use the whole bottle for one fillup,and use it when the coach sits,the algae won't form with use,don't think the 2 ounces will do much except give you peace of mind.
My 2 cents...
Engines and fuel systems are expensive to fix when unnecessarily damaged. That's why during our ownership we are religious on oil changes and all filter replacement at least annually regardless of mileage.
We've stuck to the same philosophy with fuel additives. Diesel clean is added every fillup. And, we've chosen to add Biobar algaecide at every fillip as well. In this manner we never have to keep track of what's been added or when. We're on our 3rd bottle of Biobar in 7 years and 40,000 miles since we're only adding the maintenance level. The cost of these additives, for us, is inconsequential....preventable engine or fuel system repairs ARE consequential.
I use Diesel Kleen every other fill up. 185,000 mi.
I use Biobor to control algae and OptiLube to improve lubricity.
[Merged into most recent previous discussion on fuel additives. Topic comes up every 6-12 months]
Thanks guys, I ordered a case of Diesel Kleen. Before I posted this, I tried to use the archives, but must have been putting it in wrong. Nothing was coming up, which I found hard to believe. Thanks again for all your help....
Stanadyne and Biobor. Off the jungle website.
Very few stores have it but you can get Diesel Kleen in a bottle that will treat 1000 gallons,what size was in your case?
Amazon sells it in 12oz., 26oz., 32oz., and 64oz.,...either individual or cases. Also shows a 55 gallon drum. I bought the 32oz., as it says it treats 100 gallons. I think it was about $100 for 12 bottles, case price. Will arrive in 5-7 days supposedly....
Support the Forum and buy on Amazon. If you can't I've always seen it at Walmart.
Tractor Supply carries the 1 gallon concentrate that treats 1000 gallons of fuel. I saw it just the other day: 89.99
I use a dispenser pump on mine,you can figure so many ounces for x amount of pumps,got mine on the Amsoil site.
I got the gallon container but it is impossible for me to pour it into the tank so I bought
a quart container and that works to empty it into the tank.
This was kind of my thinking process in ordering the case of 32oz. bottles. Easier size to empty into fuel tank, less measuring as each bottle treats 100 gallons, and transport only a few bottles at a time, as needed. Also, with 12 bottles I can theoretically treat 1200 gallons for $105 dollars...basically the same price as buying the gallon jugs for $89, which treats 1000 gallons.. anyway, it keeps it simple in my simple mind...
I have found this to be a great product, use it with every fill.
Amazon.com: Hot Shot's Secret - HSSEDT01G Everyday Diesel Treatment - EDT 1... (https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Shots-Secret-HSSEDT01G-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B07H9FMB9X?ref_=ast_sto_dp)
The additives are octane boosters also. My engine idles smoother and quieter as does the generators izusu motor. Maybe mental but the Cummins seems to have a bit more power?
Ummm.... do you mean
cetane booster (which not all additives are)?
Me? Howe's..................since 1969. 8)
jk