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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: ViewRVs on March 04, 2024, 09:06:54 pm

Title: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 04, 2024, 09:06:54 pm
We're pretty frustrated with our Aquahot. The water starts off very hot and tapers off before going luke warm. I was pretty sure that it was the tempering valve. I did order the Watts version. When I went to replace it, it appears I had the Watts one in there already (see photo). The thing is, the adjustment knob does not fit due to space. The knob on the old one was missing. When I replaced just the guts, I had to take the knob off to put the new one in.  (see other photo)

We have the AHE-100-02S model in our 1996 U320.


I am thinking the only thing left is to flush the lines with vinegar (descale) to see if there is blockage in the hot lines. We did the descale process back when we bought it in 2017.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: red tractor on March 04, 2024, 09:21:24 pm
Yes sounds like it might have a lime buildup causing reduced flow.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: rbark on March 04, 2024, 10:29:58 pm
Also the shower valve could be getting fouled too.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Peter on March 04, 2024, 11:14:37 pm
Viewrvs
Be careful with the vinegar flush.
I have a 98 that upon purchase required ALOT of maintenance. Did the electrical wiring, thermostats, Motor , tempering valve etc etc.....to the tune of about 6 grand. (cdn)  Then I decided to flush the system with vinegar like I had heard and because of the EXTENSIVE lime etc in the system, I could not get any hot water. Tried air and everything to solve it but in the end it cost me 9 grand to get new copper tubing put in including labour etc. This was due tot he lime in the system, which had NOT been taken care of regularly.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Rudy on March 05, 2024, 08:40:04 am
Fred,  The black knob fit in the beginning and can fit now.  The rubber fuel lines can be moved.  If the knob hits the pan, gently lever the body of the valve up till the copper pipes go back to where they were before someone bent them down.  Will not take much movement.

Test the water temp at kitchen sink.  Flow the cold water and then flow the hot water.  Flow rate should be nearly the same amount.  Set the temp of the water with the black know to between 115 and 120 degrees F.  Righty righty is cooler.

If all of this is correct and hot water cools off, get a one gallon container.  Turn the water on at the flow rate you have been using and with a timer in hand put the container in the flow for 45 seconds.  If the container overflows before 45 seconds, you are testing at a flow rate higher than 1.5 gallons per minute.  Slow the flow rate and test temp again.

If water temp continues to cool off, your hot water coils have come loose from the heat transfer mastic.  To replace the mastic is a lot of work.  One of the members has done this when he replaced his fresh water coil.  If this is your case, call me.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 06, 2024, 06:04:26 pm
Fred,  The black knob fit in the beginning and can fit now.  The rubber fuel lines can be moved.  If the knob hits the pan, gently lever the body of the valve up till the copper pipes go back to where they were before someone bent them down.  Will not take much movement.

Is it possible to put something under the copper pipes like a plastic shim or PEX tube to hold it up so the knob isn't holding the weight?
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 06, 2024, 06:09:59 pm
I will measure the flow of the hot and cold.  I do know that the cold is much stronger at each location (kitchen faucet, bath faucet, and the bath/shower). 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 06, 2024, 06:11:26 pm
Viewrvs
Be careful with the vinegar flush.

Peter,
I'm not sure that I understand your post. Did the vinegar flush cause damage to your copper lines? 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Peter on March 06, 2024, 07:00:48 pm
Sent you a pm
Peter
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Rudy on March 06, 2024, 08:40:26 pm
Any solution to giving the knob room is fine.  The copper pipe is twisted forcing the knob down.  Gently levering the body up may restore the position of the body.

Lower hot water flow than cold water flow is a restriction in fresh water coil
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on April 20, 2024, 09:32:46 pm
I hate my Aquahot.  There.  I said it.  >:( 

During my troubleshooting, of the temp fading off and descaling the unit, it appears gunk got in my Microphor toiulet and it is now acting up and not filling with much water. 

In addition, now the AC breaker is popping for the electric element.  Keep in mind that this happened last summer while at FOT and they replaced the breaker and the electric element.  Now it is doing the same thing.  Argh! What causes the AC breaker to pop?

I did check my fluid levels and it is not at the top of the tank. Looks to be 3-4" inches from the fill port.  I could not touch any boiler fluid (turned off so it was cool) with my fingers but saw some there with a mirror. There is no fluid in the overflow tank. 

The hot lines (tub, kitchen, and bath) all still have less water volume than the cold after descaling.  The descaling started off with dark green fluid and specs of stuff but tapered off to a light green vinegar solution at the end.   
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Woody & Sitka on April 21, 2024, 01:38:14 pm
Fred, sorry about your issues but they all seem to be previously experienced by a lot of us. 

The AH tank MUST be topped off at all times.  The overflow is not an indicator of a full tank.  Sounds like you may have a leak in the tank to the burner if no coolant in the AH case.  I did.  Fixed it with stop leak.

If the tank is low the electric element may be exposed and will overheat and hopefully the breaker will trip before it boils off the H2O or fries the thermostat disk...it did on mine.

What does the aquahot have to do with the toilet?  Your Microphor water level is adjustable with the controller dashpot....very small changes.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Peter on April 21, 2024, 02:13:33 pm
As was recommended by woody I used the stop and seal recommended to stop a leak. I was a little apprehensive at first about the product but tried it and it works exceptionally.
As stated, so important to keep the main tank up and then monitor via the overflow tank
I had major issues with my Aqua hot after buying my used coach but after some time , and a lot of money, am happy with its performance. I just did my first ever service on it this year. (Outsourced it previously) A bit of a challenge but got it done and am happy with the results and knowing I can do it my self!
Peter
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: OldManSax on April 22, 2024, 07:31:28 am
My Aqua Hot had frozen and burst before I bought the coach. I removed the unit and refurbished it, removing the domestic hot water coil completely. I installed a 10 gallon electric marine water heater with the auxiliary engine coolant heating option.  I added an additional heat loop from the Aqua Hot to the water heater. The loop has its own pump and thermostat. Now I can heat water using 110V electricity, (powered on either shore or generator)  or from the Aqua Hot, or both. The only problem I have had is I used a solar panel pump since it was small enough to fit into the AH case. I have had to replace it after 1 1/2 years use. It is just not robust enough for the application. My plan is to replace it with the same pump the AH uses the next time it fails. I will have to mount the bigger pump outside the case.

TOM
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Geodmann on April 22, 2024, 08:23:31 am
What marine water heater did you use?  Did you connect the aquahot in lieu of the engine loop or in addition to?
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: OldManSax on April 22, 2024, 08:38:15 pm
What marine water heater did you use?  Did you connect the aquahot in lieu of the engine loop or in addition to?
I used this one:
11 gallon Water Heater, 120 volt | Kuuma 11841 (https://marinepartssource.com/11-gallon-water-heater-120-volt-kuuma-11841?gad_source=1)

I added an additional loop to the AH with a pump and a back flow preventer valve. I also added an adjustable t-stat on the heater to control the pump. I wired the pump into the existing switched AH supply (with fuse and relay) so the pump does not come on unless the AH is on.  It all works very nicely if you have enough extra room in the bay for the heater.

TOM
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on April 26, 2024, 12:20:39 am
What does the aquahot have to do with the toilet?  Your Microphor water level is adjustable with the controller dashpot....very small changes.

The Microphor was working fine before I started adding vinegar to descale the Aquahot. I'm just thinking some minerals broke loose and clogged the Microphor water supply.  The toilet was flushed while the vinegar was in the system.   
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on April 26, 2024, 12:27:05 am
Fred, sorry about your issues but they all seem to be previously experienced by a lot of us. 

The AH tank MUST be topped off at all times.  The overflow is not an indicator of a full tank.  Sounds like you may have a leak in the tank to the burner if no coolant in the AH case.  I did.  Fixed it with stop leak.

If the tank is low the electric element may be exposed and will overheat and hopefully the breaker will trip before it boils off the H2O or fries the thermostat disk...it did on mine.

The tank wasn't topped off.  I don't think it was lower than 3" from the top since I could see boiler fluid with a mirror.  I also don't know if it just wasn't topped off at FOT when they replaced the electric element and breaker. I should have checked their work!

We replaced the boiler fluid ourselves with the YELLOW fluid.  FOT and MOT only stock the PINK.  Lesson learned.  Only use the PINK boiler fluid going forward!

So is the electric element toast?  I can top off the boiler fluid but is it already too late for that? Should topping off the fluid be my next step?
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Rudy on April 26, 2024, 08:37:05 am
Fred, remove the small cover over the electric element located below to the left of the burner.  With the electric element turned off inside, remove one of the two wires on the element..  Set your VOM meter to Ohms resistance, the horse shoe symbol and check the resistance of the element by placing the leads of the meter on each connection.  It should read 9 ohms.  OL or very high resistance is bad element.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on April 26, 2024, 10:08:03 pm
Thank you very much, Rudy.  I will go get that checked and report back. 

I have the unit off right now. I'll hold off on topping off the tank until I check it.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on May 04, 2024, 04:21:01 pm
I did purchase a new electric element (on the assumption that the existing one is bad).  The new one arrived today and the ohms reading on the new one is 9.0. Yeah! I then checked the existing one IN the unit and it reads 7.4.  What would cause a nearly new heating element (replaced in 2023) to go bad so quickly?

Also, while laying in the compartment, what appears to be drops on the roof of the bay.  When I wiped it, it has a yellow/green tint like the boiler fluid.  Nothing on the floor of the bay and nothing on the contents on the joey bed. Could the unit have overheated and that be steam from the unit? That might also explain some missing fluid. 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Rudy on May 04, 2024, 06:30:07 pm
Would be nice to know the current draw of electric element with 7 ohms.  Could be up from 13 to 17 amps.

You might look at coolant lines along the wall in the inside for a leak
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on May 04, 2024, 09:24:57 pm
Rudy,

Thanks.  How do I get the current draw?  I do have a clamp meter (but really never used it).  Is the 7.4 ohms causing a current draw that exceeds the capacity of the 15 amp breaker?  The breaker pops as soon as I turn on the electric element. 

Does that ohms rating indicate that the element needs to be replaced? 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Rudy on May 04, 2024, 09:33:59 pm
Call me tomorrow after 8 am.  Have the volt ohm meter handy, cover off of the burner area. and cover off of the thermostat area too.  And cover off the the electric element area also.  7 one 3. 8 one 8 3234
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: TGordon on May 05, 2024, 02:25:24 pm
Rudy,

Thanks.  How do I get the current draw?  I do have a clamp meter (but really never used it).  Is the 7.4 ohms causing a current draw that exceeds the capacity of the 15 amp breaker?  The breaker pops as soon as I turn on the electric element. 

Does that ohms rating indicate that the element needs to be replaced?
Element replacement? Maybe.
@ 120v you are @ 15.4 amps.
Measure the resistance of the element. If the resistance is lower than the stated value the amperage will be higher.
Your breaker may be bad.
The breaker may be popping below the rated amperage.
Try to get an amperage reading as the breaker pops.

Volts divided by resistance = Amps.
110v / 7.8 = 14.1 amps
120v / 7.8 = 15.4 amps

14.1 to 15.4 amps is expected range when you measure..

Tim
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on May 05, 2024, 10:08:48 pm
With much help and guidance from Rudy, we did get the element replaced today and the electric element is working.  ONE problem solved. Yeah!  Topped off with boiler fluid and filled the overflow to the proper level.

The diesel burner is on but does smoke more than it used to.  We are also seeing some leaking of boiler fluid where the exhaust exits below the coach and goes into the muffler. We will check on it Monday evening. 

We are also hunting down a low water pressure issue.  Our hunch is that the shore water pressure value behind the wet bay wall has failed/clogged AND the hot side of the faucets are clogged debris from the descaling. Both sinks and the shower have low pressure on the hot sides. 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Peter on May 06, 2024, 02:39:29 pm
Fred,
See reply 12 for the leaking by exhaust solution that was suggested, and tried, successfully.

Amazon.com: Silver King SBSL 1 Quart SAFE LIQUID BOILER STOP LEAK With... (https://www.amazon.com/Silver-King-LIQUID-Anti-Foam-Silicone/dp/B0714HLLLK)
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on May 07, 2024, 08:57:24 pm
We checked last night and there is no more boiler fluid dripping at the exhaust. Rudy did suggest that it might be excess boiler fluid from the drain and fill process. I am assuming (dangerous) that if it was leaking boiler fluid into the burner that it would be dripping even when it's not running.   

We did run the unit on diesel and we're getting white/gray exhaust from the exhaust pipe as well as from under the coach. No dripping of fluid. I guess we have two more issues now, a leaking exhaust pipe under the coach and the white/gray smoke from the exhaust. Anyone one of a good source for the exhaust pipe assembly?  Even if we had a local shop do it, it is probably unique to a Foretravel. 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on May 07, 2024, 09:24:57 pm
I think the answer to the exhaust pipe question is here.  8)
Topic: Aquahot Exhaust Is Gone (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22971.msg176980#msg176980)
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Chris m lang on May 08, 2024, 02:13:18 pm
Fred, I took my los pipe to a muffler shop and they made ma a new one
Chris
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 07, 2025, 08:48:10 pm
Also, while laying in the compartment, what appears to be drops on the roof of the bay.  When I wiped it, it has a yellow/green tint like the boiler fluid.  Nothing on the floor of the bay and nothing on the contents on the joey bed. Could the unit have overheated and that be steam from the unit? That might also explain some missing fluid.

Fred,
See reply 12 for the leaking by exhaust solution that was suggested, and tried, successfully.

Amazon.com: Silver King SBSL 1 Quart SAFE LIQUID BOILER STOP LEAK With... (https://www.amazon.com/Silver-King-LIQUID-Anti-Foam-Silicone/dp/B0714HLLLK)

You might look at coolant lines along the wall in the inside for a leak

I do think we are losing some boiler fluid somewhere. The overflow tank was empty (added one gallon) and I did see some fluid residue on the ceiling in the compartment. It is not on anything stored in the compartment or on the floor, just the ceiling.  If it overheats, would it release steam in the compartment? I turned on all three zones and looked for any leaks in the tubing above and could not see anything.

I am in the process of the annual service to reduce/eliminate the smoke and will be adding back the tempering value knob. I don't have the Electrode Adjustment Gauge so I just ordered one. It was not screwed on to the side of the unit.  :( 
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: ViewRVs on March 13, 2025, 07:30:12 pm
3/13/2025 Update:


I am concerned that it seemed to run a long time without shutting off.  We let it run for a while and it never shut off. We ended up turning it off. We had it on electric prior to performing the service. I am just wondering if one or more of the control thermostats are not working properly and causing that steam/pressure relief of fluid on my basement ceiling.

Question: Has anyone used a radiator cap with a built in temp gauge to monitor the boiler fluid temperature? If so, what model radiator cap does it take?  (I have the AHE-100-02S.)
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: steve on March 13, 2025, 08:54:10 pm
Question: Has anyone used a radiator cap with a built in temp gauge to monitor the boiler fluid temperature? If so, what model radiator cap does it take?  (I have the AHE-100-02S.)
Have not used a temperature cap, last cap I used was a standard 13psi cap ... Amazon.com: Stant Radiator Cap : Automotive (https://amzn.to/4bOMDvY)  @Rudy would know.

Also FWIW, ours runs for a bit as well, but it has ~16 Gallons of fluid to heat, so it takes some time on first heat-up but lasts a long time.
Title: Re: Aquahot hot water tapers off to cold
Post by: Geodmann on March 14, 2025, 05:42:22 pm
I have a remote read digital thermometer with the display installed in the bathroom and the sensor taped with some foil tape to the metal shell of the Aquahot tank in the location where the thermostats are installed.  It took some effort to route the wire but I like knowing exactly what the temperature of the boiler fluid is.  Also easy to confirm that temperature is rising when the burner or the electric element is on and I know exactly what temperature they shut off as well.