Am I missing something here.
I have the shore power unplugged. I want to power my fridge off the coach batteries so I have my magnum2812 inverter on
Went to the two plugs at back of fridge (upper one is brown, lower one is white) and I have no power at either
What am I missing?
Is there a breaker I should be looking at?
Check the second breaker box (the one for things on the inverter) - likely has 4 breakers in it. See if there's one for "icemaker".
That breaker seems to be on...
Is anything else like the microwave working on the inverter?
Try flipping them off and back on again. A breaker can be tripped without appearing to be.
And check the GFI button in the bathroom.
Although that won't reset unless on shore power. It won't reset on generator.
As you can see from the photos several things including ice maker are on breaker 1. I did turn it on(it does not show that in the picture) and still nothing. I have included other photos of the other panels on the foot of the bed for reference in case someone sees something I am missing
A smart "GFCI" plug. That's interesting. How does it differentiate AC coming from shore power, generator power or AC coming from the inverter
Generator and inverter doesn't have true "earth ground". That's needed to reset a GFCI.
Yep - shut inverting off if you're hooking shorepower up to a GFCI circuit. Learned that one finally.
How are you determining no power? Voltmeter ? Electric appliance proven to work elsewhere like a drill?
yes I have plugged in a trouble lamp in several places as well as a receptacle tester.
Most inverters have breakers on them. Check that as well.
yes did that already as well.
Giving up for this evening but will start"over" tomorrow...
Peter, From what I can tell from your pictures it looks like #8 is off, #10 is tripped, #1 below main and #2 are off. I would make sure all breakers are on. Some times they can be reconfigured and not marked. I would also remove front panels and check each breaker with a volt meter carefully. Jim.
I think that you will find that running a gas electric refrigerator on electric from the inverter will drain your batteries very quickly.
Ron, I think Peter has switched to a residential fridge Replacing fridge (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=47649.msg483167#msg483167)
Sorry I missed that.
I wasn't aware of that, thanks for that info. And it brings up an interesting question. If you were boondocking and triped the GFCI. Could you drive a ground rod into the ground and attach it to the frame to create the needed earth ground for a reset? Sorry for the thread creep.
So I now am back to the drawing board...
-Reset all the breakers (even the ones that did not resetting) at the foot of the bed.
-On shore power, reset the gfi plug in bathroom
-unplugged shore power and the battery minder charging the start batteries
-checked the voltage at the two northstar 8D batteries which were both at 13.3 volt
-turned on inverter side of magnum 2812 at the inside panel
- inverter light was flashing 2 times every four seconds which,in the manual says
" inverter has detected battery voltage greater than the High Battery Cut Out set point (>16.0 V on 12-volt ME/RD models, >16.9V on 12-volt MS models, >32.0V on 24-volt ME/RD models, >33.8V on 24-volt MS models, >67.6V on 48V models) 1. Check battery wiring to make sure it is properly wired for the inverter (12V/24V/48V nominal)."
WIRING is correct!
- reset the magnum with a soft reset
- still no power on inverter at fridge plugs or any of the inside plugs
Oh and one more thing. All the overhead lights work in side. Except the dimmer controlled light over the dining table.
Help!!!
Are you sure the inverter is putting out AC power. I would start from the inverter.It may have gone bad. If everything is powered on shore power I would be highly suspicious the inverter is not operating.
Have you checked both transfer switches. One is for the inverter.
so...how do you check a transfer switch?
I agree - start trouble shooting at the source.
The dimmer controlled light is not a DC powered light - it is powered by AC. It requires shore power, generator or inverter to work.
Is your Magnum MS2812 inverter original equipment in your coach, or did it replace the OEM inverter? If it is replacement, who did the installation? I ask because, either way, it is
possible that you do not have a "inverter transfer switch". On our old '93 model coach, we had the OEM inverter replaced with a MS2812. Installation was done at AM Solar in Oregon. They said the OEM inverter transfer switch was not needed with the 2812 because it handles that function internally, so the transfer switch was bypassed (rendered non-functional). If we are plugged into shore power, or using our generator, AC power flows straight through the 2812 to the coach loads, the 2812 inverter section is in "standby" mode, and the 2812 battery charger section supplies 12V power to coach batteries. If the AC power source is disconnected or lost for any reason, the 2812
automatically switches to "inverter" mode and supplies AC power to the coach. This changeover is so quick that usually nothing in the coach even registers the switch. Since our coach is always plugged into 50A shore power at our house, I leave our MS2812 inverter and battery charger turned ON all the time (using the remote control panel). If the inverter is turned OFF at the remote panel and AC power to our coach fails or is disconnected, the inverter mode will NOT activate automatically (AC power to inverter circuits
will be lost). See the MS2812 Owners Manual for further guidance:
https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/64-0007%20Rev%20D%20%28MS_Series%29.pdf
I don't know if your MS2812 is installed like ours (without an external separate transfer switch) but I'm just trying to explain one possible way it might be wired.
IF your coach has no separate transfer switch, then the "route" of inverter supplied power goes like this: coach batteries to inverter to inverter breaker sub-panel to inverter powered outlets and loads. I would start at the inverter and check for good 12V input power from batteries. If it is good, then check (at inverter) for good AC power output. Check to be sure the circuit breakers on the left side of case are not popped out. If inverter is putting out good AC power, then check for good AC power
input at the inverter sub-panel. If that is good, check each circuit breaker in the panel for proper function. If they are good, the problem is in the wiring between the panel and the loads.
Logical trouble shooting is always preferable to guessing games. Good luck!
I have the the MS2812 also. If you have 2 transfer switches your inverter is probably wired through
the transfer switch like mine. Chuck has a good point that the inverter transfer switch could be
eliminated. I think the top transfer switch is for the inverter. Take the top off in the inverter and use
a volt meter. I will check mine this afternoon.
While you all are discussing transfer switches, please remember the switches life time is extended by turning OFF all large current draw devices when changing from shore power to gen power or the reverse. Air conditioners, Aqua Hot electric element, toaster oven, microwave and similar devices draw enough current to cause the contacts to arc as they open and close. they will sooner than later say I give up under that abuse.
I originally had the heart inverter which I presume was the original. I wanted to upgrade to a pure sine inverter to protect my new tv's and electronics, hence the Magnum2812. I wired it for 30 amp single in single out (see magnum info attached).
I would presume with what you stated that with this wiring everything should still work normally and somewhere, either by the inverter, or the transfer switch, should or use a bypass. I will look this afternoon but I believe there are 2 transfer boxes
My 2 transfer boxes are stacked on top of each other. There were posts in the past explaining why not going through the inverter using the transfer switch was a good thing. I left mine with my Xantrex SW 3012.
I have discovered I have two transfer switches (ats100) as well as a ems lchw50 surge protector that I did not know I had
I have never boondocked or ran off the inverter as the original fridge was run on propane when driving,and I am now installing a residential fridge which will have to be run off batteries/inverter via the inverter plug at the rear of the fridge when driving.
The new inverter was wired 30 amp in and out ( see previous post above pic) as per instructions
Was there something I should have done with the setup to accommodate the two transfer switches??
I did reset the inverter via the ac reset and nothing happened
That is where I am now...now further ahead
Pic of the hard wired surge protector
Sorry I was wrong it's the bottom transfer switch is for the inverter. The set of points in my transfer
switch that are facing the front of the coach are for the inverter. I took a picture with the lid off the
transfer switch but for some reason it won't load up.
Did you check this?
Yes, one of the first things I did. I actualy turned the setting to off so it does not require the 5 watts (default) to activate.
I just had my better half do a test with the system .While i was plugged into shore power I went into the coach to listen and watch. When she unplugged the shore immediately there was a thump at the transfer switch and the power watch went from 115 to 0. I waited a minute (listening to if anything else turned off or on, or if there was a hum (no) and then asked her to plug the shore power back in. Within 10 seconds there was a thump and the power watch came alive.
Question: I s there supposed o be an immediatley thump whwen unplugging shore power? and if so, is that the shore power transfer making that sound? Is ther supposed to be another thump when the inverter one turns on?
Peter, do you have pics of your transfer switches and the inverter one?
If I take the cover off, what am I looking for as far as problem areas?
This is beyond fustrating..
Pic number one is the connections I made (single in single out 30 A)
SHOULD I have done the second pic setup with single in single out 60A configuration
Based on my pics I believe I have a 50 amp breaker required to AC input????
Peter I can't upload the picture to the forum. Email your me at 70morin@gmail.com and
I will send you the picture of the opened transfer switch and we can talk on the phone and
I will walk you through trouble shooting. 604 434 9511
As Chuck's reply 24 talking about the transfer switch removable I think I thought about it but
as the transfer switch handles 50 amps with #8 wire and the wire going to and back from the
inverter is #12 wire using the inverter transfer switch I would be limited to 20 amps on the
second panel.
That may be one of the reasons the earlier posts recommended leaving the second transfer switch.
When AM Solar removed our OEM Taytronics modified sine wave inverter and installed our Magnum MS2812 they mounted it in a different location - closer to the coach batteries. They also ran new 000 cables between the coach batteries and the inverter. I guess that is why they were able to eliminate the OEM inverter transfer switch...which, in the case of our '93 model, was a manual transfer switch. MTS?
See photo below of our old OEM inverter control panel (now long gone):
On our 97 270 with the magnum 2812 when the inverter is providing power the power watch doesn't show any lights or voltage, so I don't think the inverter supplies any power to that circuit.
I updated the topic title to indicate that it's not just the fridge outlets, but that the inverter does not seem to be powering anything.
Michelle
Red tractor
I presume you have two transfer switches in your coach as well as the one in the magnum On mine as soon as I disconnect the ac power and the inverter light at the remote stays solid green the power watch in mine drops to zero as well.
Peter ( old guy) has offered to step me through everything by phone tomorrow and I hope we may come up with a cause. I still have not seen a post remarking if those with two transfer switches in there coaches at the foot of the bed( one for inverter and one for gen/ac) still just let the magnum run thru the inverter as well. Comments would be appreciated. The more I delve into this the more I think the inverter ats 100 is faulty. Will find out tomorrow with Peter
I talked with Peter and the inverter magnetic switch won't pull down. Had him turn the light over
the table and when he manually pushed the switch down the light comes on. So some how current
isn't getting through the coil that pulls the point together and I don't know how to trouble shoot
that. He is looking at getting a new transfer switch.
Thanks again Peter!!
Now I know what the issue is. I so now I am replacing the transfer switch for the inverter. Is the progressive dynamics PD 52V a direct plug and play replacement for the magnetik ATS-100? I require replacing the inverter transfer switch and this seems to be the most recent. I want to be able to just swap wires
Anyone done this swap?
I received the PD52v today to replace my inverter transfer switch which with Peter's (old guy) help was able to diagnose. The new pd52 is smaller than the original magnetek but will fit nicely.
I did notice the other difference is the arrangement of the blocks. They are reversed in the new one which is no big deal
The other difference (see schematics) is the new one labels inputs as hot 1and hot 2 whereas the old magnetek just labeled each as hot.
I am going to presume I use the same hot input( which is hot 1 on the new schematic)as the original
Is there really a difference?
Also the old magnetek had a "relay" block with several wires out and attaching to the block. The new one has a relay "board" which I guess,is their improvement
Any comment in the above findings would be appreciated
I will be disconnecting shore power and turning off the inverter prior to the change out (that's all I am required for safety??)
Peter
Just to update everyone, the install of the PD52V went fairly smoothly and really, the only extra thing I had to do was cut to length a couple of the wires as they were installed longer in the original. It looks much cleaner with the shortened wiring.
The inverter works well now on battery power and the fridge outlet, as well as all the others inside are operating normally on inverter power. Problem Solved!
It does take about 20 seconds for the transfer switch to cut in for the inverter...but that is minor.
There is a bit of the "hum" that everyone has mentioned with the transfer box, but really, it is not that noticable. It could be "softened" considerably bu adding some dynamat on the remocable lid and the side surfaces if the noise bothers anyone to much.
Thanks to Peter (old guy) again for the tudering, as electrical is really not my bag!
I read somewhere that the delay is built into the ATS intentionally. That same ATS model is also used to switch between shore power and generator power. In that application, the delay allows the generator voltage to stabilize before transfer occurs. When used as a
inverter ATS, this delay is not desirable, because it causes a "break" in power flow to all connected devices. Depending on what you have plugged into the inverter powered outlets, this may or may not be troublesome.
I believe there is a way to "disable" the time delay function, if it becomes a problem. See the Operation Guide linked below:
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/PD52-PD52DCSD-PD53-Manual-english.pdf
I see that instruction in the PD manual. BUT I do not know what a .100" jumper is, nor do I know how to instal it.
Suggestions?
I don't understand this comment, actually have never heard of or experienced this situation. A GFCI will operate with or without a third "ground" wire, it operates when it measures a difference in current between the hot and neutral conductors. It should trip and reset with or without a grounding conductor. I will research this further because I would like to know why some of you have experienced this "not resetting on generator power" condition.
Just looking at the somewhat blurry photo in the above linked manual, I would guess that they want you to take a short piece of single conductor wire, strip the insulation off both ends, and stick the bare wire ends in the the two holes on the black connector J1. The wire will complete a circuit, thus disabling the time delay. In electrical terminology, this is called a "shunt". Definition below:
"An electrical conductor joining two points of a circuit, through which more or less of a current may be diverted."
The model I have is newer than the manual is showing for that.
When I pulled the card it says
"To bypass the delay short H1 or H2. How do I do that. I have attached a photo for reference
Another pic
Guessing drop a blob of solder to join the two solder connection contacts on h2???
It's normally done with a removable shunt/jumper header component (rectangular component that slips over the 2 pins and shorts them). You just need to double-check the pin pitch (center-to-center spacing), although most breadboard connectors are standardized.
Amazon sells kits. Here's one Amazon.com: 620Pcs Jumper Wire Cable Pin Header Connector Housing Kit Male &... (https://www.amazon.com/Yosoo-620Pcs-Connector-Housing-Terminal/dp/B01MSABPR8)
Here's a 2.54mm pitch 2-pin jumper (well, 100 of them) Amazon.com: 2P 2-Pin 2.54mm Pitch Jumper for straight header - Blue - Pack... (https://www.amazon.com/2-Pin-2-54mm-Jumper-straight-header/dp/B015IPLY9C)
This one's 2.0mm pitch Amazon.com: 2P 2-Pin 2.0mm Pitch Jumper for straight header - Pack of 100 :... (https://www.amazon.com/2-Pin-2-0mm-Jumper-straight-header/dp/B01DVYE9EY)
To order them up would take some time Michelle and I don't think I would ever put it back to normal. Would the blob of solder joining the two solder points on H2 work?
Anything that shorts them together would work, so yes, a blob of solder should work okay. Be careful with heat around the board (and excess solder) if you're not familiar with hand reworking PCB boards. I only suggested the jumpers/shunts because I prefer changes that are easily reversible if you decide you don't like the result.
It states "short H1 or H2, it appears that H2 already has a jumper plug installed. You could move it to H1 and see what happens. More information on this board would be helpful.
EDIT;
your second photo is much clearer, I couldn't tell what the white plug was on H2, it appears that is where the jumper should be, H1 doesn't look like it was meant to be jumpered by the user. Normally you don't have to get out a soldering iron to jump pins for selecting an option meant for the end user.
I really did not have the time to wait for an Amazon order for the jumper and have no intentions of reversing it (if the shore/generator transfer switch fails I will purchase another PD 52) so I dropped a blob of solder on the H2 area and it worked!
Project finished. Inverter and plugs etc work great!
The Edit comment is spot on.
Just for completeness for anyone following along:
H1 was not populated. H2 is populated with a "jumperable" connector. You can't move the device from H2 to H1 without reflowing the solder pads beneath it (they will be identical to the "no-pop" 2 pads you see in the H1 location). Reflowing surface mount solder pads is not for the typical user.
Most times when there is user-selectable function, a manufacturer will install a jumper on a "jumperable" connector, but only slide it onto one pin (the other side will be hanging off into the air, essentially). That gives the user a jumper they can reposition if the manufacturer intended the customer to be able to change selections this way (customer typically being the OEM who contracted for the board to be built, not the "everyday retail person").
Michelle (printed circuit boards and assemblies are part of my past life)
Agreed
If I had intentions of ever having a delay I would split the solder. I also would have waited for a delivery of the jumper.