Title: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 09, 2024, 10:44:42 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 09, 2024, 10:44:42 pm
Hi All,
Couple of years ago we bought a 1997 U270 34' custom shortie. We are the third owners, and the previous travelers were diligent about maintenance, quick with the upgrades and were fastidious record keepers.
Fritz is a handsome fella and a wonderful host.
We've been on the road full time in Fritz for just about three years and not once have we regretted the decision. We've had our fair share of mishaps, but nothing too serious. As I understand it, anyone with the time, patience and aptitude can keep these lovelies on the road indefinitely. Doesn't hurt that my big brother, Mike is a diesel mechanic. Hard core. Like Christmas morning when the Snap-On truck rolls in...lol.
So here's the issue. What started as a clogged kitchen sink has turned into a stinky mess in the shower. I've been devouring the info on these forums for a couple of days, and have done pretty much everything suggested. I've removed and cleaned every single accessible pipe, p-trap and vent I could get my hands on. Even tried snaking the vent up top the bus and there's no blockage.
I've also snaked the two drains in the kitchen and the bathroom sink. We've used vinegar and baking soda, green gobbler and copious amounts of hot water. It would seem that the shower pan (corner style, drivers side) sits above the tires so I can't get reasonable access to the p-trap in the shower. Because of the weird angle of the shower drain, snaking isn't possible. I've tried one of the black plastic grabbie type snakes, it wont penetrate more than six inches.
It's been two days of dumping drain cleaners, waiting an hour-or two-or overnight and then vigorous plunging. What doesn't creep down the drain has been siphoned up with an industrial strength turkey baster, and subsequently dumped via the toilet into the black tank.
The grey tank has been closed to the sewer dump line, and it has been open as well. I've taped off the air exhaust things and plunged like a fiend, and I've left them as they should be and plunged as well.
My best guess is that there's something really unexpected trapped in the 1 1/2 black pipe that begins under the kitchen sink, travels toward the back of the bus, where it meets up with the bathroom sink drain and then scoots toward the shower where it meets up with the shower drain..?
I'm getting all sorts of interesting crud coming up the drain, black sludge, red sand from the southwest.. that stuff gets everywhere. It's why we don't take the backest of back roads anymore. I'm still finding it in crevices and corners from last winters adventures. Back to the mystery....it's just terrible to see and worse to smell.
This is the one and only home I have ever owned, and I am absolutely fastidious about keeping stuff out of the drains. I feel like I've done everything right.. but here we are :-X
I can disassemble the cubbie at the foot of the bed where I suspect the air exhaust is hidden. I'm sorry that I'm not using technical jargon, I'm well beyond my capacity to think at this point. At least for today.
My plan tomorrow is to run a hose from the city water spigot, thru the kitchen window and into the shower where I'll try to blast the beezor out. That, or I'll use my brand new spot carpet cleaner (Bissell Pet Pro Heated..blah, blah) to attempt to suction whatever may have decided to make it's home in the drainage system between the shower, bathroom sink and the grey tank below.
The dump system is pretty basic- gated valves operated manually so I don't think there's any mystery there... but that's exactly why I'm here now. To see if any other Foretravelers have had a similar problem.
We also have an air compressor- I was thinking I'd go get a decent length of pex pipe or more likely aquarium tubing to affix to the compressor and see if I can force the disgusting mass into the tank with compressed air.
We adore Fritz. He is our forever home. We hope to wander the planet until our dying day with Fritz by our side.
Neither my partner James or I work presently.. You can make a pretty decent play at life as a volunteer with State Parks and Federal Lands (USDA). Occasionally we get a daily stipend for our time, and that and social security seem adequate for the time being...
I digress. My apologies. If anyone has ideas or experiences that they deem useful, helpful or entertaining, I am all ears.
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my rambling post....
Cheers!
Julie
Edit: James had just filled the fresh water tank- please tell me that there's some magic bypass we tripped. I'm beginning to feel as if we're just scouring the pipes the hard way. I've bailed out at least 24 gallons from various orifice's.
Lemme know if you need the build number... I'll try and add it to our profile just as soon as I can regain some semblance of motivation. lol.
Couple of years ago we bought a 1997 U270 34' custom shortie. We are the third owners, and the previous travelers were diligent about maintenance, quick with the upgrades and were fastidious record keepers.
Fritz is a handsome fella and a wonderful host.
We've been on the road full time in Fritz for just about three years and not once have we regretted the decision. We've had our fair share of mishaps, but nothing too serious. As I understand it, anyone with the time, patience and aptitude can keep these lovelies on the road indefinitely. Doesn't hurt that my big brother, Mike is a diesel mechanic. Hard core. Like Christmas morning when the Snap-On truck rolls in...lol.
So here's the issue. What started as a clogged kitchen sink has turned into a stinky mess in the shower. I've been devouring the info on these forums for a couple of days, and have done pretty much everything suggested. I've removed and cleaned every single accessible pipe, p-trap and vent I could get my hands on. Even tried snaking the vent up top the bus and there's no blockage.
I've also snaked the two drains in the kitchen and the bathroom sink. We've used vinegar and baking soda, green gobbler and copious amounts of hot water. It would seem that the shower pan (corner style, drivers side) sits above the tires so I can't get reasonable access to the p-trap in the shower. Because of the weird angle of the shower drain, snaking isn't possible. I've tried one of the black plastic grabbie type snakes, it wont penetrate more than six inches.
It's been two days of dumping drain cleaners, waiting an hour-or two-or overnight and then vigorous plunging. What doesn't creep down the drain has been siphoned up with an industrial strength turkey baster, and subsequently dumped via the toilet into the black tank.
The grey tank has been closed to the sewer dump line, and it has been open as well. I've taped off the air exhaust things and plunged like a fiend, and I've left them as they should be and plunged as well.
My best guess is that there's something really unexpected trapped in the 1 1/2 black pipe that begins under the kitchen sink, travels toward the back of the bus, where it meets up with the bathroom sink drain and then scoots toward the shower where it meets up with the shower drain..?
I'm getting all sorts of interesting crud coming up the drain, black sludge, red sand from the southwest.. that stuff gets everywhere. It's why we don't take the backest of back roads anymore. I'm still finding it in crevices and corners from last winters adventures. Back to the mystery....it's just terrible to see and worse to smell.
This is the one and only home I have ever owned, and I am absolutely fastidious about keeping stuff out of the drains. I feel like I've done everything right.. but here we are :-X
I can disassemble the cubbie at the foot of the bed where I suspect the air exhaust is hidden. I'm sorry that I'm not using technical jargon, I'm well beyond my capacity to think at this point. At least for today.
My plan tomorrow is to run a hose from the city water spigot, thru the kitchen window and into the shower where I'll try to blast the beezor out. That, or I'll use my brand new spot carpet cleaner (Bissell Pet Pro Heated..blah, blah) to attempt to suction whatever may have decided to make it's home in the drainage system between the shower, bathroom sink and the grey tank below.
The dump system is pretty basic- gated valves operated manually so I don't think there's any mystery there... but that's exactly why I'm here now. To see if any other Foretravelers have had a similar problem.
We also have an air compressor- I was thinking I'd go get a decent length of pex pipe or more likely aquarium tubing to affix to the compressor and see if I can force the disgusting mass into the tank with compressed air.
We adore Fritz. He is our forever home. We hope to wander the planet until our dying day with Fritz by our side.
Neither my partner James or I work presently.. You can make a pretty decent play at life as a volunteer with State Parks and Federal Lands (USDA). Occasionally we get a daily stipend for our time, and that and social security seem adequate for the time being...
I digress. My apologies. If anyone has ideas or experiences that they deem useful, helpful or entertaining, I am all ears.
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my rambling post....
Cheers!
Julie
Edit: James had just filled the fresh water tank- please tell me that there's some magic bypass we tripped. I'm beginning to feel as if we're just scouring the pipes the hard way. I've bailed out at least 24 gallons from various orifice's.
Lemme know if you need the build number... I'll try and add it to our profile just as soon as I can regain some semblance of motivation. lol.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: bbeane on June 10, 2024, 08:05:14 am
Post by: bbeane on June 10, 2024, 08:05:14 am
You might try a shop vac with the hose on the blow side. Remove the shower drain cover using a rag to seal around the shop vac hose at the shower drain CAREFULLY apply pressure to the drain to help move any obstructions on down the line. I wouldn't use an air compressor, might be a bit much.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Kiwitex on June 10, 2024, 12:48:10 pm
Post by: Kiwitex on June 10, 2024, 12:48:10 pm
If you started with removing and cleaning the P-trap under the sinks, then snaking both sinks you should have eliminated the worst of the challenge.
Black sludge is often a bacteria issue, but my suggestion would be to keep on using drain cleaner soaking, use a metal snake to loosen whatever you can, then buy a cheap wet/dry vac to suck it out with until you get the obstruction out.
I don't think the air compressor would be a good idea, might be a bit too much.
Sooner or later you will suck the problem out, or melt it down enough to pass thru.
Very interested to hear how this is resolved, best of luck.
Black sludge is often a bacteria issue, but my suggestion would be to keep on using drain cleaner soaking, use a metal snake to loosen whatever you can, then buy a cheap wet/dry vac to suck it out with until you get the obstruction out.
I don't think the air compressor would be a good idea, might be a bit too much.
Sooner or later you will suck the problem out, or melt it down enough to pass thru.
Very interested to hear how this is resolved, best of luck.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 01:18:21 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 01:18:21 pm
Thanks guys. Boy- don't I know that I made the problem far worse than it needed to be!
Foolishly, we had not prepared for this..
Had I not been so lazy on day one, gone to the store and bought a plunger and a snake...I would have enjoyed the beautiful PNW weather and not made myself sick inhaling green gobbler fumes.
No exaggeration here, I actually vomited pretty violently at the end of day one since I had not taken necessary precautions to protect myself against accidental exposure to the gobbler. Cross contamination.
I appreciate the info- bacterial sludge.. interesting.
Looks like I'm gonna get a shop vac today.
I'm grateful for the reassurance, that it'll likely eventually break down and end up in the grey tank as it should.
I will keep you posted.
I'm of the mind that in any given situation, it isn't a mistake so much as a steep learning curve.
Using this philosophy, I would have to say that I have gotten pretty damn smart over the years 🤣
Cheers!
Julie
An addendum: bacterial sludge vs hydrogen peroxide sounds promising. That stuff is cytotoxic and unless there's a serious drawback to using it in the pipes I'm going to add it to the arsenal. In fact I could swing by the beauty supply store and grab some 20, 30 or 40 volume peroxide instead of using the 3% from the drugstore.
Thoughts?
As an aside here's a tip- hydrogen peroxide is genius at removing stains on the carpet. Especially organic ones.
Foolishly, we had not prepared for this..
Had I not been so lazy on day one, gone to the store and bought a plunger and a snake...I would have enjoyed the beautiful PNW weather and not made myself sick inhaling green gobbler fumes.
No exaggeration here, I actually vomited pretty violently at the end of day one since I had not taken necessary precautions to protect myself against accidental exposure to the gobbler. Cross contamination.
I appreciate the info- bacterial sludge.. interesting.
Looks like I'm gonna get a shop vac today.
I'm grateful for the reassurance, that it'll likely eventually break down and end up in the grey tank as it should.
I will keep you posted.
I'm of the mind that in any given situation, it isn't a mistake so much as a steep learning curve.
Using this philosophy, I would have to say that I have gotten pretty damn smart over the years 🤣
Cheers!
Julie
An addendum: bacterial sludge vs hydrogen peroxide sounds promising. That stuff is cytotoxic and unless there's a serious drawback to using it in the pipes I'm going to add it to the arsenal. In fact I could swing by the beauty supply store and grab some 20, 30 or 40 volume peroxide instead of using the 3% from the drugstore.
Thoughts?
As an aside here's a tip- hydrogen peroxide is genius at removing stains on the carpet. Especially organic ones.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 10, 2024, 01:56:30 pm
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 10, 2024, 01:56:30 pm
I cannot help with the drain problem, but wanted to share that for 20 years we have done the following to keep drain pipes clean: On each weekly dump, use a dedicated ½" 50' water hose with exit end fitting cut off, to keep it from scratching or getting stuck in drain or toilet. One of us inside directing the outside person with intercom or 2-way radio to control city water faucet, especially important as the only way to stop water flow from the inside is to fold hose over on itself. We use lots of water with tank valves open or closed. Hose is fed into coach through a window. 2-way radios without push to talk are the best as each talks on different frequency for simultaneous conversing. We also use these radios while biking for safety and conversation.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 04:04:10 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 04:04:10 pm
Thanks for the tip.
We were just thinking that we might need to do this to flush the black tank since I've been dumping water from the shower drain into the toilet.
The gray tank is empty so it seems the smartest way to flush the hose.
It might have been info I gleaned from another post on the forum, I believe that you were the contributor.
Smart. Smart. I appreciate the input!
We were just thinking that we might need to do this to flush the black tank since I've been dumping water from the shower drain into the toilet.
The gray tank is empty so it seems the smartest way to flush the hose.
It might have been info I gleaned from another post on the forum, I believe that you were the contributor.
Smart. Smart. I appreciate the input!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: craneman on June 10, 2024, 04:13:40 pm
Post by: craneman on June 10, 2024, 04:13:40 pm
Before you blow with the shop vac, suck. I have cleared many drains by sucking up the blockage as it is blocked going down not up.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 10, 2024, 04:24:41 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 10, 2024, 04:24:41 pm
Have you been able to locate all the air admittance valves for the drains? There should be one for each sink, one for the shower, and one for the toilet. (And another one if you have a washer/dryer hookup, even if you don't have a washer/dryer). Location for the shower one is going to be floorplan-dependent and it might even be across the bath from the shower location.
Usually, AAV's fail open/leaky - that's when you get the "stinky coach syndrome" issue. If an AAV fails/is stuck closed, however, it will cause a very slow drain issue. That might allow things to "back up" to other fixtures or for gunk to build up in the plumbing.
Usually, AAV's fail open/leaky - that's when you get the "stinky coach syndrome" issue. If an AAV fails/is stuck closed, however, it will cause a very slow drain issue. That might allow things to "back up" to other fixtures or for gunk to build up in the plumbing.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 10, 2024, 07:12:04 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 10, 2024, 07:12:04 pm
An addendum: bacterial sludge vs hydrogen peroxide sounds promising. That stuff is cytotoxic and unless there's a serious drawback to using it in the pipes I'm going to add it to the arsenal. In fact I could swing by the beauty supply store and grab some 20, 30 or 40 volume peroxide instead of using the 3% from the drugstore.
Thoughts?
I honestly hope you're kidding on that high-volume peroxide idea.
You've already dumped chemicals down the drain and they aren't all rinsed out. Adding hydrogen peroxide (a strong oxidizer) to the mix, especially at hair lightening strengths is not at all a good idea. Goodness knows what the chemical reaction might be. Plus you're working in a confined space where the fumes from one of the cleaners has already made you very sick.
Those of us who have worked with such things in the concentrations you are considering and the types of things you are mixing would only do with the chemicals in a fume hood, full PPE - safety glasses, gloves, full chemical apron, and possibly face shield as well (especially if the hood didn't have its own shield you could pull down.)
Please slow down before there are more serious consequences than a slow drain.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 09:29:15 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 09:29:15 pm
I honestly hope you're kidding on that high-volume peroxide idea.
You've already dumped chemicals down the drain and they aren't all rinsed out. Adding hydrogen peroxide (a strong oxidizer) to the mix, especially at hair lightening strengths is not at all a good idea. Goodness knows what the chemical reaction might be. Plus you're working in a confined space where the fumes from one of the cleaners has already made you very sick.
Those of us who have worked with such things in the concentrations you are considering and the types of things you are mixing would only do with the chemicals in a fume hood, full PPE - safety glasses, gloves, full chemical apron, and possibly face shield as well (especially if the hood didn't have its own shield you could pull down.)
Please slow down before there are more serious consequences than a slow drain.
Yeah. I wasn't thinking that idea thru. I appreciate your warning. Here I am, 8 hours in today and nothing. Actually there's an interesting evolution today. I suppose I ought to post that separately. Again, thanks for the warning! I was actually considering going to Sally's.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:14:56 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:14:56 pm
Before you blow with the shop vac, suck. I have cleared many drains by sucking up the blockage as it is blocked going down not up.
That's my next move... thanks for mentioning it. I'm reluctant to follow my own ideas as clearly shown by my consideration of high concentration peroxide. D'oh.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:19:30 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:19:30 pm
Have you been able to locate all the air admittance valves for the drains? There should be one for each sink, one for the shower, and one for the toilet. (And another one if you have a washer/dryer hookup, even if you don't have a washer/dryer). Location for the shower one is going to be floorplan-dependent and it might even be across the bath from the shower location.
Usually, AAV's fail open/leaky - that's when you get the "stinky coach syndrome" issue. If an AAV fails/is stuck closed, however, it will cause a very slow drain issue. That might allow things to "back up" to other fixtures or for gunk to build up in the plumbing.
I also took a look behind the drawers under the stove. It shares a wall with the toilet (other side, of course!)
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:39:13 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:39:13 pm
Thanks guys. Boy- don't I know that I made the problem far worse than it needed to be!
Foolishly, we had not prepared for this..
Had I not been so lazy on day one, gone to the store and bought a plunger and a snake...I would have enjoyed the beautiful PNW weather and not made myself sick inhaling green gobbler fumes.
No exaggeration here, I actually vomited pretty violently at the end of day one since I had not taken necessary precautions to protect myself against accidental exposure to the gobbler. Cross contamination.
I appreciate the info- bacterial sludge.. interesting.
Looks like I'm gonna get a shop vac today.
I'm grateful for the reassurance, that it'll likely eventually break down and end up in the grey tank as it should.
I will keep you posted.
I'm of the mind that in any given situation, it isn't a mistake so much as a steep learning curve.
Using this philosophy, I would have to say that I have gotten pretty damn smart over the years 🤣
Cheers!
Julie
An addendum: bacterial sludge vs hydrogen peroxide sounds promising. That stuff is cytotoxic and unless there's a serious drawback to using it in the pipes I'm going to add it to the arsenal. In fact I could swing by the beauty supply store and grab some 20, 30 or 40 volume peroxide instead of using the 3% from the drugstore.
Thoughts?
As an aside here's a tip- hydrogen peroxide is genius at removing stains on the carpet. Especially organic ones.
Okay here's today's update. Eight hours later I have been unable to find the toilet exhaust valve as well as the one for the shower.
Lots of chemicals, vinegar and baking soda and plunging in rotation.
I want to let you know that I completely flood the drain and remove every ounce of water, flood it again and using the "Baster of the Gods" I make certain that I am doing everything I can to minimize the mixing of chemicals.
There's been one strange development.. I tried altering the position of the grey water drain valve (closed it) to see if anything was making it to the tank..
Holy Sh*t! There was a fair amount of water in there. How it's getting there, I can't say since the sinks still drain to the shower and the pan fills up..
We set the compressor to 20 psi and using the nozzle (for beach balls and the like) and an inverted 32oz Maverick cup (carefully sized with a flaming hot awl) we attempted to blast the mass into the grey tank.
No dice. So, I'm going to remove all the excess water that's making its way between the sinks and the shower,
I'm going to use my brand spanking new, unused Bissell Carpet Cleaner. 🥺
This all started the evening that I was prepping to clean the carpet in the bathroom.
Coffee stains are everywhere on the carpet and although I usually scrub by hand I decided to splurge.
I can't justify scolding anyone for spilling coffee. It's a long story. Suffice it to say that James was diagnosed with Relapsing-Remitting MS in 2000, just as he turned 30.
And here we are. 24 years later and by what magical power he channels, I do not know.
He walks funny. But.. He. Walks.
So, as far as I'm concerned he can paint the walls with coffee and I ain't sayin nuthin.
Besides, these carpets have so much Scotch Guard on them I haven't managed a permanent stain yet. 🤞🏻
I'm going to upload photos of Fritz from the last owner, perhaps it'll inspire someone who may have an idea of where to look for the two missing air exhaust valves.
I truly appreciate your advice, fellow Fore-Travelers. I feel so much less alone in this debacle now.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:41:52 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 10, 2024, 10:41:52 pm
Can someone walk me through how to add photos. I suspect that it can't be done on my iPhone so I'll look on the laptop and get photos posted asap.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 08:22:20 am
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 08:22:20 am
After rereading your troubles here are some thoughts.
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Lt403 on June 11, 2024, 09:18:07 am
Post by: Lt403 on June 11, 2024, 09:18:07 am
Hi James and Julie!
Where are you at?
Maybe someone is close by.
A fresh set of eyes may help.
Where are you at?
Maybe someone is close by.
A fresh set of eyes may help.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Dave Larsen on June 11, 2024, 09:58:32 am
Post by: Dave Larsen on June 11, 2024, 09:58:32 am
There's been one strange development.. I tried altering the position of the grey water drain valve (closed it) to see if anything was making it to the tank..
Holy Sh*t! There was a fair amount of water in there. How it's getting there, I can't say since the sinks still drain to the shower and the pan fills up..
After rereading your troubles here are some thoughts.
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Julie,
Maybe you can clarify for us what you did. I've read what you wrote a couple of times I'm not clear on what happened? Are you saying that you had the grey valve closed for a while and then later had water in the tank or it already had water in it? Mike might be on to something.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Siren on June 11, 2024, 11:43:11 am
Post by: Siren on June 11, 2024, 11:43:11 am
After rereading your troubles here are some thoughts.
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: wolfe10 on June 11, 2024, 11:57:56 am
Post by: wolfe10 on June 11, 2024, 11:57:56 am
After rereading your troubles here are some thoughts.
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Yup, and pretty easy to check. If there is very little resistance when pulling the handle for the dump valve, the blade that allows contents of the gray tank out may not be opening.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:20:14 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:20:14 pm
After rereading your troubles here are some thoughts.
Could the grey tank dump valve have failed causing the grey tank to be full? What I am saying is the handle pulls out but has broken off the gate. The OEM tank level indicator on those tanks are notorious for not reading correct so don't depend on it.
Mike
Hi Mike-
After yesterday's adventure I am coming to the conclusion that the problem MUST lie elsewhere. I.e., the grey tank. I believe the gate is working, I was able to force water into it (the tank) somehow yesterday afternoon and I emptied it completely (it sounded like it was empty, anyway. James also managed to force a couple of gallons into it during the early evening hours as well. This morning he's going to track down one of those apparatus that will clean the inside of the tank from the outside. I believe he said that it was placed inside the tank from the sluice gate on the tank itself.. I am optimistic, but we are open to all ideas at this point- we are about 30 man hours in. I'm not complaining about that. If you want to do the math on that at the mobile RV tech rate it's somewhere between absurd and catastrophic in US dollars 🤣.
Thanks for the input, every little bit helps.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:24:26 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:24:26 pm
Yup, and pretty easy to check. If there is very little resistance when pulling the handle for the dump valve, the blade that allows contents of the gray tank out may not be opening.
Hmmm. But isn't the sound of rushing fluid thru the hose a pretty clear indication that it's draining?
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 01:33:24 pm
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 01:33:24 pm
Well you have had this coach for a while BUT are you sure that you are working with the valve for the grey tank and not the sewer tank? I know this may be a dumb question but it has happened before with a Forum member with disastrous results.
If that gate is open into the grey tank you should be able to get one of those wash wands pushed all the way into the tank for a backflush.
Mike
If that gate is open into the grey tank you should be able to get one of those wash wands pushed all the way into the tank for a backflush.
Mike
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:41:45 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:41:45 pm
Hi James and Julie!
Where are you at?
Maybe someone is close by.
A fresh set of eyes may help.
Great idea!
Right now we are at Saltwater State Park in Des Moines, WA. Although the campground is officially closed this year we are acting as a presence to deter any activity that may run afoul of the law.
We're still doing maintenance work, litter patrol and basic gardening though.
Here's an open invitation to a fresh set of eyes. Send me an email and I'll put you in contact with James.
I so appreciate the idea/offer. Y'all are amazing!!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:44:45 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 01:44:45 pm
Well you have had this coach for a while BUT are you sure that you are working with the valve for the grey tank and not the sewer tank? I know this may be a dumb question but it has happened before with a Forum member with disastrous results.
Mike- oh how I wish we were making that particular mistake. We're definitely pulling the right handle. One is silver/grey and the other is black. And broken. It's a Valterra brand and if anyone knows where to get a new one I would appreciate any info.
If that gate is open into the grey tank you should be able to get one of those wash wands pushed all the way into the tank for a backflush.
Mike
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 03:06:23 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 03:06:23 pm
Julie,
Maybe you can clarify for us what you did. I've read what you wrote a couple of times I'm not clear on what happened? Are you saying that you had the grey valve closed for a while and then later had water in the tank or it already had water in it? Mike might be on to something.
Sure, I'll recap.
Friday night I was rinsing white beans in the sink. (I dump the bean water directly into a city sewer drain or freeze it in a plastic container). Some of those bean casings escaped into the kitchen drain. (The larger of the two.)
And then water started backing up in the sink. I grabbed the baking soda and some vinegar and immediately put it in the drain. After half an hour or so, I flushed it with hot water. It still wouldn't drain so I grabbed a large plastic lid from a gallon pail of ice cream and began using it as a flange of shorts to create suction.*
At the time I believed that I was successful.
Next morning I look in the shower to find that a small amount of water has pooled into the drain and pan.
I immediately jump into action and dump more baking soda/vinegar into the kitchen drain and the shower drain.
Fast forward a bit and I try to flush the drains. Nothing happens. Well actually more water appears in the shower.
We don't have a snake or a plunger at this point so..
This is when I began researching the forum and YouTube.
cave and accept that I have to leave the campground.
So I cruise up to the Fred Meyer and grab a small plastic baffle-type plunger, a bottle of green gobbler, a 25' snake a giant bottle of apple cider vinegar (they're out of white) and a big box of baking soda.
After removing the excess water from the shower and the sink, I attack the pipes.
I track down the AAV under the kitchen and bathroom sinks, remove them and inspect. At this point I disassembled the 1 1/2 pipes and p-traps from the kitchen and bath. No blockages. I snake the kitchen all the way back to the bathroom and then I snake the bathroom- but this is difficult because it will only go so far before hitting an angle it cannot pass.
Reassemble the pipes, add ACV and soda to shower and wait.
A little while later we try flushing it with hot water and no progress. That's when the plunging comes in. The ridiculous little plunger works. But only in as much that it begins to bring up black crud and vinegar water into the shower.
I remove the mess from the shower pan and we close up both sides of the kitchen sink and the bathroom sink with their stoppers and dump four cups of green gobbler. We wait an hour, flush with hot water begin the plunging. Still no progress. I clean up the foetid water in the shower and add another 4 cups of gobbler.
Overwhelmed by chemicals I puke, make rice Chex for dinner and we go to bed.
Day three: gobbler doesn't clear the drain after adding hot water. Plunging begins again and I remove as much water as possible from the shower.
We try snaking the vent on top of the bus but find no obstruction.
Another day of rotating between ACV/soda and gobbler...
Yesterday, we tried blowing the obstruction through... plunging.. all we're getting is hot water and diluted chemicals. Some water has made its way into the grey tank and I open the valve, water drains into the sewer. Try running the water into the shower drain and it still will not drain freely.
Exhausted and nearly defeated I try a Hail Mary. It's nearing sunset and I cave. I finally use the carpet cleaner to suck the water out. I hear an interesting noise.. is it..did we...? I add hot water and I remove hot water with the carpet cleaner.
Eventually I can run the water very slowly and the drain seems to keep pace.
Good enough for a quick rinse off which I so desperately need. But the drain isn't working. Water starts puddling at my feet just as I complete the final rinse. I've achieved the victory of a navy shower and it's good enough. There is enough length of pipe that when it and the p-traps are empty a super short shower is possible.
And here we are. I still have not found the AAV for the shower or the toilet. It's not under the stove or in the cubby in the bedroom.
The shower/sinks and toilet are all on the drivers side of the bus. There's a set of pipes that travel across the bus to the passenger side (not visible from upstairs but it's the logical answer), it comes up in the first closet of the wardrobe. One pipe in total until at waist height it splits. One heads straight up to the ceiling, makes a turn and continues up to the vent on the roof. The other pipe in the wardrobe splits at a 90* degree angle and travels through the back of the closet and vanishes. We make the assumption that it makes anoth 90* turn upward and joins the roof vent. But we don't know. The water manifold is on the passenger side as is the water pump.
The wet bay is on the driver side just about mid cabin. The shower sits over the rear tires on the drivers side.
I've had two thought here as I type.
We haven't leveled up in some time. At least not in several weeks. The air bags do settle some- we may or may not be 100% level.
Second, it there any connection between the water pump that is gasping air at some point in the bus? We replaced the old pump a couple of months ago as it was making a hammering noise. It still does. Tracking down where the leak happens is on our summer maintenance punch list but everything else has been supplanted by the current problem.
Last thought- we haven't dumped the black tank yet. Without water in the grey tank I'm gonna have to run a hoe thru the kitchen window and into the bowl.
Is a weird vapor lock possible? I don't know that we've removed the drain hose from the valve in the wet bay. In fact I don't know if we've removed the hose from the sewer opening. It's loosely sealed with a pair of heavy duty Playtex gloves to mask any odor.
I hope this is concise enough for y'all. I tried not to editorialize or be clever. I tried to keep it brief but my mind is already soup.
Aside from trying to clean the grey tank from outside I may just have to go buy a wet/dry suck/blow shop vac. They're less than 50 buck but we just don't have space to keep it around.. the Joey bed is full of tools. Completely full of tools. Not complaining though. If I do go buy a shop vac I think that we might just have a complete arsenal to tackle any problem we may have in the future.
Any thoughts, ideas, tips or tricks are welcome. Encouraged. And most of all, appreciated.
*
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: WS6_Keith on June 11, 2024, 03:46:13 pm
Post by: WS6_Keith on June 11, 2024, 03:46:13 pm
I'm not saying this is a good idea, but throwing it out there. The shower should be the lowest point for gray water backup right? If so, how about trying to get whatever is stuck to come back up, since it seems to be at the floor drain in the shower?
You could use an attachment like this and backwash fresh water into the gray tank with the gray valve open.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-RV-Sewer-Cap-with-Hose-Connector-39463/100130743?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24-71700000097492033--&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw65-zBhBkEiwAjrqRMDJHn7Atj2O-uKNCBLFIq2ajTNPD4QZmC5VqveXWgvF3BEXuS457DhoCS34QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
You could use an attachment like this and backwash fresh water into the gray tank with the gray valve open.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-RV-Sewer-Cap-with-Hose-Connector-39463/100130743?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24-71700000097492033--&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw65-zBhBkEiwAjrqRMDJHn7Atj2O-uKNCBLFIq2ajTNPD4QZmC5VqveXWgvF3BEXuS457DhoCS34QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 04:45:36 pm
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 11, 2024, 04:45:36 pm
On your age coach the toilet don't have an AAV as the drop is strait into the holding tank.
With your coach being a 34' does the shower valves back a close cabinet or the TV. If so it is highly likely the AAV is hid in the wall. Some of the coaches have a hidden door that you can take off to get to the shower valve. In this area is where that they hid the AAV yes almost impossible to get to.
Does your coach have a washer? If not that line that vanishes could be for the washer option. If this is the case it is hid in a false wall also.
Mike
With your coach being a 34' does the shower valves back a close cabinet or the TV. If so it is highly likely the AAV is hid in the wall. Some of the coaches have a hidden door that you can take off to get to the shower valve. In this area is where that they hid the AAV yes almost impossible to get to.
Does your coach have a washer? If not that line that vanishes could be for the washer option. If this is the case it is hid in a false wall also.
Mike
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:25:44 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:25:44 pm
I'm not saying this is a good idea, but throwing it out there. The shower should be the lowest point for gray water backup right? If so, how about trying to get whatever is stuck to come back up, since it seems to be at the floor drain in the shower?
You could use an attachment like this and backwash fresh water into the gray tank with the gray valve open.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-RV-Sewer-Cap-with-Hose-Connector-39463/100130743?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PMax_JControl24-71700000097492033--&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw65-zBhBkEiwAjrqRMDJHn7Atj2O-uKNCBLFIq2ajTNPD4QZmC5VqveXWgvF3BEXuS457DhoCS34QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Our thoughts exactly. James is out in the world looking for something similar. I appreciate the timely response- I'll send him the link now. Thank you!!😊
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:48:57 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:48:57 pm
On your age coach the toilet don't have an AAV as the drop is strait into the holding tank.
With your coach being a 34' does the shower valves back a close cabinet or the TV. If so it is highly likely the AAV is hid in the wall. Some of the coaches have a hidden door that you can take off to get to the shower valve. In this area is where that they hid the AAV yes almost impossible to get to.
Does your coach have a washer? If not that line that vanishes could be for the washer option. If this is the case it is hid in a false wall also.
Mike
Yeah, the shower stuff is hidden in a cubby in the front of the bedroom- on the drivers side. I took off the panels yesterday and all that's in there is the brass fittings and pex hose to feed the hot/cold water mixing valve.
There's no AAV back there. I can't for the life of me imagine where it could be. Unless it's hidden behind the wall of drawers on the passenger side of the bed. That's where the TV would have been. Hmmm. Maybe I'll take the lowest panel off- we thought it was exclusively for the batteries and the like.
Fritz's second companion, Tim did extensive work on creating a solar powered system that allows for boondocking for weeks on end. He was an aviation electrical engineer. Fritz has 16 lithium ion batteries in addition to whatever came with the bus back in 1997. So even though it's not always the most attractive addition to the bus it sure is useful. Got a steep learning curve tho. He did give us a lifetime guarantee of tech support though and it's come in handy.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: AC7880 on June 11, 2024, 05:55:08 pm
Post by: AC7880 on June 11, 2024, 05:55:08 pm
Different model different year, but here is where I found air admittance valves, including behind washer/drier. NO toilet AAV in our coach -- verifed by extensive search and checking each AAV and drainage. Includes some photos.
Sewer Odor, roof sewer vent, air admitance valves inside... (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34106.msg312768#msg312768)
Sewer Odor, roof sewer vent, air admitance valves inside... (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34106.msg312768#msg312768)
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:56:12 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 05:56:12 pm
Also, I may be able to get a peek into the shower pan area. There's a vent that runs the depth of the shower right there above the carpet. It's where we keep the hooded litter box- we use the Breeze system and there's no messy clay or paper litter to worry about. Also it doesn't seem to be functioning as a heat vent- the puppy pads that collects the urine would make that spot the worst possible place to keep a cat box.
Thanks for keeping the tips rolling in. What little soapy water that didn't drain immediately after my shower has actually drained overnight. I have done another round of baking soda and ACV. It's nearly time to flush it out so.. fingers crossed 🤞🏻
Thanks for keeping the tips rolling in. What little soapy water that didn't drain immediately after my shower has actually drained overnight. I have done another round of baking soda and ACV. It's nearly time to flush it out so.. fingers crossed 🤞🏻
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 06:00:50 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 06:00:50 pm
Different model different year, but here is where I found air admittance valves, including behind washer/drier. NO toilet AAV in our coach -- verifed by extensive search and checking each AAV and drainage. Includes some photos.
Sewer Odor, roof sewer vent, air admitance valves inside... (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34106.msg312768#msg312768)
And I see that there's an AAV in the closet as well as the pipes going to the roof???
Way down on the page but it's got me thinking.
I can't thank you all enough. It's the constant flow of information and ideas that keeps me from absolutely loosing my mind.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 07:27:59 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 07:27:59 pm
On your age coach the toilet don't have an AAV as the drop is strait into the holding tank.
With your coach being a 34' does the shower valves back a close cabinet or the TV. If so it is highly likely the AAV is hid in the wall. Some of the coaches have a hidden door that you can take off to get to the shower valve. In this area is where that they hid the AAV yes almost impossible to get to.
Does your coach have a washer? If not that line that vanishes could be for the washer option. If this is the case it is hid in a false wall also.
Mike
Yes!! There's something in the closet. It's held in place with four square headed screws. I got the ones ion the front of the little box that surrounds them pipes. But the other two are on the side.. running parallel to the closet wall. They must have entrusted this fine work to a Lilliputian!
This is where I take a quick breather, since where a tool of that shape and size is hidden in the Joey bed, I cannot imagine.
Better wait for the *old man* on this one. As much as it's fine for me to rifle thru his collection of tools 🧰 I think it's probably so easily accessible that I'd lose myself looking for it.
Got a look under the shower pan, sorta. They've run the heater hose to the bedroom thru there and I don't know how I'm supposed to get a look at anything other than dust bunnies.
I tried flushing the shower drain again. No dice.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 07:35:14 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 07:35:14 pm
Supposing that all the pipes and AAV look just great when I get that panel off..
Is it possible that the opening up top the gray tank is plugged up from all the pushing and pulling of the mystery mass.
What then?
Do we disassemble the entire wet bay enclosure? Looks like someone was overzealous and quite untidy with the application of the caulking in that area.
I find it hard to believe that the coach was initially sent off the line and into someone's hands with work so... um... imprecise? 🤣
In today's dollars this coach would set a person back just about $450k. And that this was the last year they made the unicoach.. I'm not the first person to say that most coaches made in the later years just don't measure up.
That's not shade, friends. I'm only stating facts as I know them.
So yeah, what's next??
Is it possible that the opening up top the gray tank is plugged up from all the pushing and pulling of the mystery mass.
What then?
Do we disassemble the entire wet bay enclosure? Looks like someone was overzealous and quite untidy with the application of the caulking in that area.
I find it hard to believe that the coach was initially sent off the line and into someone's hands with work so... um... imprecise? 🤣
In today's dollars this coach would set a person back just about $450k. And that this was the last year they made the unicoach.. I'm not the first person to say that most coaches made in the later years just don't measure up.
That's not shade, friends. I'm only stating facts as I know them.
So yeah, what's next??
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: craneman on June 11, 2024, 08:37:39 pm
Post by: craneman on June 11, 2024, 08:37:39 pm
Always go to the last thing you did before a problem shows up. Suck at the sink where the beans went down with the shop vac. Then proceed with trouble shooting.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Res777 on June 11, 2024, 08:48:15 pm
Post by: Res777 on June 11, 2024, 08:48:15 pm
Maybe I missed it. Have you verified the gray tank valve is actually opening? And that the grey tank is in fact empty? If you open the grey tank valve and leave it open does the shower drain and/or can you see water coming out of the grey tank drain. If the answer is no then yes you have a stoppage upstream.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 09:27:36 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 09:27:36 pm
Always go to the last thing you did before a problem shows up. Suck at the sink where the beans went down with the shop vac. Then proceed with trouble shooting.
Okay. To the sink. Thank you!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 09:37:00 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 11, 2024, 09:37:00 pm
Maybe I missed it. Have you verified the gray tank valve is actually opening? And that the grey tank is in fact empty? If you open the grey tank valve and leave it open does the shower drain and/or can you see water coming out of the grey tank drain. If the answer is no then yes you have a stoppage upstream.
Okay so it gets weird here. He bought an apparatus that allows us to fill the tank from below. It's got its own gate valve and we are repeatedly filling, draining and retesting to see if the drain is draining. It's not.
I'm going to try plunging at the kitchen for a spell and see if the clog is there. I did snake but came up empty handed except for the coating of black sludge. I assumed it was going to be a mass of something or other but it feels like we're just pushing goo around in the pipes.
I did finally find the two additional AAV, in the wardrobe closet. I've removed them and I will replace all four. That's all of them, right?
The toilet doesn't have one. There's one next to the kitchen sink. One next to the bathroom sink and two in the closet. We've deduced (collectively?) that is where they meet up and head up to the roof vent.
So. Unless there's another one somewhere, I can't begin to guess what else could be wrong.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: AC7880 on June 11, 2024, 09:45:10 pm
Post by: AC7880 on June 11, 2024, 09:45:10 pm
I did finally find the two additional AAV, in the wardrobe closet. I've removed them and I will replace all four. That's all of them, right?
The toilet doesn't have one. There's one next to the kitchen sink. One next to the bathroom sink and two in the closet. We've deduced (collectively?) that is where they meet up and head up to the roof vent.
So. Unless there's another one somewhere, I can't begin to guess what else could be wrong.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 12, 2024, 01:07:05 am
Post by: thelazyjays on June 12, 2024, 01:07:05 am
VICTORY. We have achieved our aim. Showers first and the solution/explanations to follow. Tomorrow tho.
Thanks again to my wonderful comrades and fellow travelers. Your input and advice was invaluable. The constant flow of ideas kept our hearts alight when all seemed lost.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!!
Thanks again to my wonderful comrades and fellow travelers. Your input and advice was invaluable. The constant flow of ideas kept our hearts alight when all seemed lost.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: WS6_Keith on June 12, 2024, 10:30:01 am
Post by: WS6_Keith on June 12, 2024, 10:30:01 am
Can't wait to hear what you found...and how you got it out.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: SuperFore on June 12, 2024, 04:59:36 pm
Post by: SuperFore on June 12, 2024, 04:59:36 pm
I can't believe that I've got to wait till tomorrow to hear what the problem/solution here was?! 😎
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Chris m lang on June 12, 2024, 08:01:31 pm
Post by: Chris m lang on June 12, 2024, 08:01:31 pm
And the tension MOUNTS!!!!
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 12:04:52 am
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 12:04:52 am
I won't be able to sleep tonight!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Lt403 on June 13, 2024, 08:28:54 am
Post by: Lt403 on June 13, 2024, 08:28:54 am
^.^d
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 01:05:02 pm
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 01:05:02 pm
Still waiting😁
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:11:41 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:11:41 pm
I'm so sorry!! That was pretty thoughtless of me to not update y'all, especially in light of your efforts to hunt down a solution.
So- I think I mentioned that I found the AAV in the closet.
First we used the back-flow do-hickey to clean the grey tank. Several times. Didn't help. So- we re-snaked all the drains. We cleaned and tested all four AAV.
No change
I was picking up a new shop vac (and some supper), James snaked the vent on top the bus. Ran water and plunged. Nope.
I came back with the awesome Armor-All 2.5 gallon 2hp shop vac. Sucked the water from the shower. Dumped it in the toilet.
Suddenly a cry from James who was sewer side scratching his head..
"What did you just do??"
"I dumped the shower water in the toilet!"
"Do it again!"
I did it again.
"Well..?" I ask
"That water went straight into the grey tank!"
Huh?
"Well," I said, "you better drain the black tank".
(We had not dumped the black tank during this debacle since we never had enough water in the grey tank to flush the hose.)
He dumps the black tank, while I run hot water in the shower.
And....
OMG. Drain fixed.
Huh? So he back-fills the grey one more time, and moves to back-fill the back tank.
I wait. And I wait.
"This is taking forever!" I holler. "Just dump the black tank while I flush the shower drain, again."
And wouldn't you know it, kitchen sink, bathroom sink and kitchen sink are now working.
Victorious and beaming, he takes a well earned shower. I make waffle fries and portion up the fresh roasted chicken from the store. We fall asleep immediately and don't even get to the ice cream..
We don't usually have ice cream on hand because I don't know the meaning of the word moderation.
So there you have it. One problem solved and a new mystery in its place.
What happened??
Why..? The back was full. All the water I thought was making it to the grey tank through the vigorous plunging wasn't shower water at all. It was the water and chemicals that I dumped in the black tank.
Clearly the sensors don't work and we've never relied on them anyway.
Was the drain ever clogged? Or are we absolute morons?
You can be absolutely candid, friends. I think we are officially dumb-asses.
So- I think I mentioned that I found the AAV in the closet.
First we used the back-flow do-hickey to clean the grey tank. Several times. Didn't help. So- we re-snaked all the drains. We cleaned and tested all four AAV.
No change
I was picking up a new shop vac (and some supper), James snaked the vent on top the bus. Ran water and plunged. Nope.
I came back with the awesome Armor-All 2.5 gallon 2hp shop vac. Sucked the water from the shower. Dumped it in the toilet.
Suddenly a cry from James who was sewer side scratching his head..
"What did you just do??"
"I dumped the shower water in the toilet!"
"Do it again!"
I did it again.
"Well..?" I ask
"That water went straight into the grey tank!"
Huh?
"Well," I said, "you better drain the black tank".
(We had not dumped the black tank during this debacle since we never had enough water in the grey tank to flush the hose.)
He dumps the black tank, while I run hot water in the shower.
And....
OMG. Drain fixed.
Huh? So he back-fills the grey one more time, and moves to back-fill the back tank.
I wait. And I wait.
"This is taking forever!" I holler. "Just dump the black tank while I flush the shower drain, again."
And wouldn't you know it, kitchen sink, bathroom sink and kitchen sink are now working.
Victorious and beaming, he takes a well earned shower. I make waffle fries and portion up the fresh roasted chicken from the store. We fall asleep immediately and don't even get to the ice cream..
We don't usually have ice cream on hand because I don't know the meaning of the word moderation.
So there you have it. One problem solved and a new mystery in its place.
What happened??
Why..? The back was full. All the water I thought was making it to the grey tank through the vigorous plunging wasn't shower water at all. It was the water and chemicals that I dumped in the black tank.
Clearly the sensors don't work and we've never relied on them anyway.
Was the drain ever clogged? Or are we absolute morons?
You can be absolutely candid, friends. I think we are officially dumb-asses.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 02:20:47 pm
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 02:20:47 pm
This makes me very confused....
Even more than before!
Are your tanks labeled correctly?
Even more than before!
Are your tanks labeled correctly?
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:34:18 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:34:18 pm
This makes me very confused....
Even more than before!
Are your tanks labeled correctly?
They were. They are.
Now I think maybe the magnetic poles shifted or we have a nefarious sprite.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 13, 2024, 02:34:48 pm
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 13, 2024, 02:34:48 pm
The black and gray tanks are not connected in any way (unless you made the "third dump valve" mod). If the black tank is allowed to get completely full (over-filled), your "warning" will be the toilet will not flush. However, a completely full black tank doesn't prevent the gray tank from dumping, or the sinks and shower from draining.
I don't understand what you think happened to "fix" your problem.
I don't understand what you think happened to "fix" your problem.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 02:42:23 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 02:42:23 pm
First we used the back-flow do-hickey to clean the grey tank. Several times. Didn't help. So- we re-snaked all the drains. We cleaned and tested all four AAV.
Sucked the water from the shower. Dumped it in the toilet.
Suddenly a cry from James who was sewer side scratching his head..
"What did you just do??"
"I dumped the shower water in the toilet!"
"Do it again!"
I did it again.
"Well..?" I ask
"That water went straight into the grey tank!"
Huh?
"Well," I said, "you better drain the black tank".
(We had not dumped the black tank during this debacle since we never had enough water in the grey tank to flush the hose.)
He dumps the black tank, while I run hot water in the shower.
And....
OMG. Drain fixed.
#1, the tank flush on the coach is on the black tank, not the grey tank. If that's what you used to backflush, you were backflushing the black tank.
#2 grey tank and black tank are not connected, unless as Chuck states you have the 3rd dump valve modification and have left the other tank dump valves open. There is no way water poured into the toilet would end up in the grey tank plumbing unless it went all the way to a third valve and then backed up into the grey tank through an open grey tank dump valve.
It sounds like you are confusing the black tank dump valve with the grey tank dump valve, which is odd since you've been in the coach for several years.
On the tank sensors, if these are the OEM pressure transducer ones that report to a Javalina tank monitor, yes, those do go bad. Parts are no longer available and the calibration process is a royal pain anyway. You would be wise to consider switching to a SeeLevel system which uses external sensor tapes.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 02:47:59 pm
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 02:47:59 pm
Perhaps I haven't had enough coffee or something but, the only thing I can think of that explains your observed issues (and your apparent solution) is that you have somehow confused which tank is which, perhaps someone mislabeled something?
When you dumped water and chemicals down the toilet, it can only go into the black tank, there's no other place to go, because there's no connection between grey and black tanks.
Maybe you can show us a photo of your tank valves & labels?
"What did you just do??"
"I dumped the shower water in the toilet!"
"Do it again!"
I did it again.
"Well..?" I ask
"That water went straight into the grey tank!"
When you dumped water and chemicals down the toilet, it can only go into the black tank, there's no other place to go, because there's no connection between grey and black tanks.
Maybe you can show us a photo of your tank valves & labels?
"What did you just do??"
"I dumped the shower water in the toilet!"
"Do it again!"
I did it again.
"Well..?" I ask
"That water went straight into the grey tank!"
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:56:25 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 02:56:25 pm
The black and gray tanks are not connected in any way (unless you made the "third dump valve" mod). If the black tank is allowed to get completely full (over-filled), your "warning" will be the toilet will not flush. However, a completely full black tank doesn't prevent the gray tank from dumping, or the sinks and shower from draining.
I don't understand what you think happened to "fix" your problem.
Exactly. I don't understand either. The tanks are labeled. There's a black handle and it definitely will shoot human waste out of it if the hose detaches, the valve handle breaks or there's a cracked hose.
We know all this from experience.
The silver handle is for the grey tank.
We've been dumping the tanks since Oct of 2020. So...
I don't know what to think.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 03:34:16 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 03:34:16 pm
Obviously this needs a more critical analysis. But we're playing catch up today but rest assured we will get to the bottom of this.
Our assumption was that they were somehow connected in case of an overflow. Which is weird and gross.
The toilet is a straight shot into the black tank. It's got a ball valve and nothing else so..
When he back filled the grey tank it came up in the shower. Pulling the grey handle allowed us to perform this action- we had a moment when draining the grey tank the fitting for the new flush kit flew off and we had to close the grey handled gate to stop the flow of water. I'll mention that the new toy is of a subpar quality. Especially the clear one. It's made of a thin acrylic and I worry that it won't withstand prolonged use.
He had to spend $80 on two separate pieces at Tacoma RV. We tried calling around and he went to Poulsbo RV and to Camping World before he caved and bought the two separate pieces.
Operationally, we did not mess with the black handle during this time.
We KNOW 💯 that the grey handle is for the grey tank. Cause when we backfilled, we used the grey handle, AND that water came up in the shower.
We know 💯 that the black handle controls sewage. Three separate events over the years has allowed the contents of the black handled tank to spew fecal waste.
(As an aside two of those events happened at the free dump station by my mom's place in Clinton, UT. And boy, ain't that embarrassing. Especially since the second time happened on a Monday afternoon after a long weekend. Ugh.)
Tim, the second occupant was active on this forum and I need to do a deep dive to see if he added a third overflow valve). I have not gone thru the receipts to see if the original occupant upgraded the wastewater management system.
They had Fritz for 20 years and religiously cared for, repaired and upgraded the bus. He was an 8 out of a 10 when Fritz joined our family. His only flaw was superficial exterior decal fading.
So, if it wasn't the tanks being somehow connected it could have been
A) something was blocking the roof air vent. James re-snaked it while I was getting the shop vac.
B) the shop vac removed the clog after I used suction on the shower and the kitchen sink. But that doesn't track. Because it only started working properly after James drained the black tank. He drained the black tank after he heard shower liquid from the toilet appear in the grey tank. He saw the liquid thru the clear plastic of the back-flow flush device.
The gate valve for the black tank is not a perfect seal. It'll drip a drop or two when he goes to dump the tank into the sewer line. I don't know what else to think. There was a drop or two that came from the black handled valve gate when the grey tank was completely full and filling up the shower pan.
While I certainly understand the skepticism, I also appreciate the questions. But we're mostly sane, sober adults who have great powers of observation.
Still- I don't know what to think.
🤔
Our assumption was that they were somehow connected in case of an overflow. Which is weird and gross.
The toilet is a straight shot into the black tank. It's got a ball valve and nothing else so..
When he back filled the grey tank it came up in the shower. Pulling the grey handle allowed us to perform this action- we had a moment when draining the grey tank the fitting for the new flush kit flew off and we had to close the grey handled gate to stop the flow of water. I'll mention that the new toy is of a subpar quality. Especially the clear one. It's made of a thin acrylic and I worry that it won't withstand prolonged use.
He had to spend $80 on two separate pieces at Tacoma RV. We tried calling around and he went to Poulsbo RV and to Camping World before he caved and bought the two separate pieces.
Operationally, we did not mess with the black handle during this time.
We KNOW 💯 that the grey handle is for the grey tank. Cause when we backfilled, we used the grey handle, AND that water came up in the shower.
We know 💯 that the black handle controls sewage. Three separate events over the years has allowed the contents of the black handled tank to spew fecal waste.
(As an aside two of those events happened at the free dump station by my mom's place in Clinton, UT. And boy, ain't that embarrassing. Especially since the second time happened on a Monday afternoon after a long weekend. Ugh.)
Tim, the second occupant was active on this forum and I need to do a deep dive to see if he added a third overflow valve). I have not gone thru the receipts to see if the original occupant upgraded the wastewater management system.
They had Fritz for 20 years and religiously cared for, repaired and upgraded the bus. He was an 8 out of a 10 when Fritz joined our family. His only flaw was superficial exterior decal fading.
So, if it wasn't the tanks being somehow connected it could have been
A) something was blocking the roof air vent. James re-snaked it while I was getting the shop vac.
B) the shop vac removed the clog after I used suction on the shower and the kitchen sink. But that doesn't track. Because it only started working properly after James drained the black tank. He drained the black tank after he heard shower liquid from the toilet appear in the grey tank. He saw the liquid thru the clear plastic of the back-flow flush device.
The gate valve for the black tank is not a perfect seal. It'll drip a drop or two when he goes to dump the tank into the sewer line. I don't know what else to think. There was a drop or two that came from the black handled valve gate when the grey tank was completely full and filling up the shower pan.
While I certainly understand the skepticism, I also appreciate the questions. But we're mostly sane, sober adults who have great powers of observation.
Still- I don't know what to think.
🤔
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 03:50:43 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 13, 2024, 03:50:43 pm
"#2 grey tank and black tank are not connected, unless as Chuck states you have the 3rd dump valve modification and have left the other tank dump valves open. There is no way water poured into the toilet would end up in the grey tank plumbing unless it went all the way to a third valve and then backed up into the grey tank through an open grey tank dump valve."
This.
This is the only way any of this makes sense.
This.
This is the only way any of this makes sense.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 04:01:19 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 04:01:19 pm
"#2 grey tank and black tank are not connected, unless as Chuck states you have the 3rd dump valve modification and have left the other tank dump valves open. There is no way water poured into the toilet would end up in the grey tank plumbing unless it went all the way to a third valve and then backed up into the grey tank through an open grey tank dump valve."
This.
This is the only way any of this makes sense.
Do you have the third dump valve? It would be 100% obvious since it would be a dump gate valve on the portion of dump pipe that extends out of the utility bay wall that you connect the sewer hose to. It would be completely visible AND you would have to operate it to actually empty either tank. It's not something that would have been added behind the bay wall.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 04:16:00 pm
Post by: Kiwitex on June 13, 2024, 04:16:00 pm
"#2 grey tank and black tank are not connected, unless as Chuck states you have the 3rd dump valve modification and have left the other tank dump valves open. There is no way water poured into the toilet would end up in the grey tank plumbing unless it went all the way to a third valve and then backed up into the grey tank through an open grey tank dump valve."
This.
This is the only way any of this makes sense.
But it still doesn't answer why your problem went away when you emptied the "black" tank.
You have not mentioned having a 3rd valve, but it should be pretty easy to spot.
They usually look something like this
Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic) (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=25056.msg197513#msg197513)
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: SuperFore on June 13, 2024, 04:25:13 pm
Post by: SuperFore on June 13, 2024, 04:25:13 pm
I have followed this since the beginning - and I know you mentioned that there was black sludge on your snake when you would pull it out... Is it possible that whatever was holed up in your pipes finally released and your outside observer thought it was the black tank even though it was the "black stuff" coming out of the gray tank???
I'd be curious if you have a clear adapter on your sewer outlet just what your next gray tank dump looks like... Personally I'd be filling that grey tank with hot water right now hoping to flush out whatever might be in there...
And - I'd probably flush the black tank too - and be overly observant as to which tank and what water is coming out through that clear adapter!!!
Good luck and congrats!
I'd be curious if you have a clear adapter on your sewer outlet just what your next gray tank dump looks like... Personally I'd be filling that grey tank with hot water right now hoping to flush out whatever might be in there...
And - I'd probably flush the black tank too - and be overly observant as to which tank and what water is coming out through that clear adapter!!!
Good luck and congrats!
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 05:26:53 pm
Post by: rbark on June 13, 2024, 05:26:53 pm
Pictures are worth a 1000 words. It would really help us in helping you to figure out this problem.
I'm also thinking you have a 3rd valve in your system.
I'm also thinking you have a 3rd valve in your system.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 05:57:29 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 13, 2024, 05:57:29 pm
I am presently searching Tim's old posts for anything dump valve-related or waste line plumbing-related.
He did do a slightly "different" repair of the black tank plumbing (added a rubber coupler) at one point, but I didn't see any mention of any third valve addition.
Black Tank Valve Leak (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36425.msg346209#msg346209)
ETA BTW, you can see from the length of waste pipe from the black tank valve to the coach dump connection, that's why it sometimes seems like the black tank valve leaks through a little - it can just be residual effluent in the pipe between the dump connection and the valve. The grey tank valve is much closer to the dump connection. You can also see, at least in a 2003, the grey dump pipe is on the left, but the valve handle will be on the right (and vice-versa for the black tank dump).
Now that just made a lightbulb go off in my head - the grey plumbing and black plumbing join at a tee to then go out the coach dump connection. I don't know the configuration in your 1997, but if you look at that for a 2003 (grey on left, black on right), it's possible heavy black tank material could back into that short length of tee and create a blockage for the grey water dump line. Now why the "head" of the grey tank when full couldn't push it out would be a mystery...
2nd ETA - out of curiosity, you do keep the black tank valve closed unless you need to dump it, correct?
He did do a slightly "different" repair of the black tank plumbing (added a rubber coupler) at one point, but I didn't see any mention of any third valve addition.
Black Tank Valve Leak (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36425.msg346209#msg346209)
ETA BTW, you can see from the length of waste pipe from the black tank valve to the coach dump connection, that's why it sometimes seems like the black tank valve leaks through a little - it can just be residual effluent in the pipe between the dump connection and the valve. The grey tank valve is much closer to the dump connection. You can also see, at least in a 2003, the grey dump pipe is on the left, but the valve handle will be on the right (and vice-versa for the black tank dump).
Now that just made a lightbulb go off in my head - the grey plumbing and black plumbing join at a tee to then go out the coach dump connection. I don't know the configuration in your 1997, but if you look at that for a 2003 (grey on left, black on right), it's possible heavy black tank material could back into that short length of tee and create a blockage for the grey water dump line. Now why the "head" of the grey tank when full couldn't push it out would be a mystery...
2nd ETA - out of curiosity, you do keep the black tank valve closed unless you need to dump it, correct?
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: craneman on June 13, 2024, 07:54:39 pm
Post by: craneman on June 13, 2024, 07:54:39 pm
Something to add here, the tanks are connected at the vent connection. Not knowing your coach I don't know if that makes any difference.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: AC7880 on June 13, 2024, 08:59:48 pm
Post by: AC7880 on June 13, 2024, 08:59:48 pm
The only place the tanks should be connected is in pipe to the vent in the roof. Perhaps everything you dumped down the sinks/showers backed up past connection of the two tanks to the vent to the roof.
Dumping the black tank would then allow air to enter the previously flooded connection in the pipe to the top of the roof. Created a escape for a flooded vent system. Only thing that makes sense to me.
Dumping the black tank would then allow air to enter the previously flooded connection in the pipe to the top of the roof. Created a escape for a flooded vent system. Only thing that makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Siren on June 13, 2024, 10:39:40 pm
Post by: Siren on June 13, 2024, 10:39:40 pm
Exactly. I don't understand either. The tanks are labeled. There's a black handle and it definitely will shoot human waste out of it if the hose detaches, the valve handle breaks or there's a cracked hose.
We know all this from experience.
The silver handle is for the grey tank.
We've been dumping the tanks since Oct of 2020. So...
I don't know what to think.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that on our 1997 coach, the SILVER valve is the black tank, and the BLACK valve is the grey tank. I am happy things are working for you again. I think you have confused everyone on this forum. Pictures of your wet bay valves would answer a lot of questions. There are very very few things that end up being mysterious.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: AC7880 on June 14, 2024, 09:26:06 am
Post by: AC7880 on June 14, 2024, 09:26:06 am
As a side note on the air admittance valves (AAV). Any coach with a vacuflush toilet system (which this 34' was not), wil not have a AAV for the black tank/toilet. It could never achieve vacumn and shut off it did,
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 14, 2024, 10:13:59 am
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 14, 2024, 10:13:59 am
I can tell you with 100% certainty that on our 1997 coach, the SILVER valve (handle) is the black tank, and the BLACK valve (handle) is the grey tank.
Waste Valves & Accessories Archives - Valterra.com (https://valterra.com/product-category/rv-products/aftermarket/sewer-sanitation/valves-accessories/)
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Lt403 on June 14, 2024, 10:35:09 am
Post by: Lt403 on June 14, 2024, 10:35:09 am
If the hose you connect to dump the tanks has a clear elbow you can definitely tell what tank you are dumping
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 14, 2024, 08:38:51 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 14, 2024, 08:38:51 pm
I am presently searching Tim's old posts for anything dump valve-related or waste line plumbing-related.
He did do a slightly "different" repair of the black tank plumbing (added a rubber coupler) at one point, but I didn't see any mention of any third valve addition.
Black Tank Valve Leak (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36425.msg346209#msg346209)
ETA BTW, you can see from the length of waste pipe from the black tank valve to the coach dump connection, that's why it sometimes seems like the black tank valve leaks through a little - it can just be residual effluent in the pipe between the dump connection and the valve. The grey tank valve is much closer to the dump connection. You can also see, at least in a 2003, the grey dump pipe is on the left, but the valve handle will be on the right (and vice-versa for the black tank dump).
Now that just made a lightbulb go off in my head - the grey plumbing and black plumbing join at a tee to then go out the coach dump connection. I don't know the configuration in your 1997, but if you look at that for a 2003 (grey on left, black on right), it's possible heavy black tank material could back into that short length of tee and create a blockage for the grey water dump line. Now why the "head" of the grey tank when full couldn't push it out would be a mystery...
2nd ETA - out of curiosity, you do keep the black tank valve closed unless you need to dump it, correct?
Fascinating. I'm going to a look outside and see. I'll take photos but I don't know how to add them to my replies.
We never leave anything open. We don't use our city water connection except to fill the freshwater tank. We never leave the grey or black tanks open.
And I do believe that both tanks come together since there's only one place to hook-up the sewer pipe and it juts out substantially from the tanks and the valve handles.
I think you're on to something tho-
Thank you so much for such diligence in reviewing Tim's old posts. It's very heartening. Plus I need to know Fritz very intimately so the information is invaluable.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 14, 2024, 08:44:21 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 14, 2024, 08:44:21 pm
I am presently searching Tim's old posts for anything dump valve-related or waste line plumbing-related.
He did do a slightly "different" repair of the black tank plumbing (added a rubber coupler) at one point, but I didn't see any mention of any third valve addition.
Black Tank Valve Leak (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36425.msg346209#msg346209)
ETA BTW, you can see from the length of waste pipe from the black tank valve to the coach dump connection, that's why it sometimes seems like the black tank valve leaks through a little - it can just be residual effluent in the pipe between the dump connection and the valve. The grey tank valve is much closer to the dump connection. You can also see, at least in a 2003, the grey dump pipe is on the left, but the valve handle will be on the right (and vice-versa for the black tank dump).
Now that just made a lightbulb go off in my head - the grey plumbing and black plumbing join at a tee to then go out the coach dump connection. I don't know the configuration in your 1997, but if you look at that for a 2003 (grey on left, black on right), it's possible heavy black tank material could back into that short length of tee and create a blockage for the grey water dump line. Now why the "head" of the grey tank when full couldn't push it out would be a mystery...
2nd ETA - out of curiosity, you do keep the black tank valve closed unless you need to dump it, correct?
I just scrutinized the photo. Ours looks nothing like that. I must find a way to upload a photo since it's probably gonna be the only way to a reasonable explanation.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: evantwheeler on June 15, 2024, 01:33:50 am
Post by: evantwheeler on June 15, 2024, 01:33:50 am
I just scrutinized the photo. Ours looks nothing like that. I must find a way to upload a photo since it's probably gonna be the only way to a reasonable explanation.
I struggled with photos until i realized the attach photos option is NOT available with a "quick reply".
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: AC7880 on June 15, 2024, 09:23:38 am
Post by: AC7880 on June 15, 2024, 09:23:38 am
And I do believe that both tanks come together since there's only one place to hook-up the sewer pipe and it juts out substantially from the tanks and the valve handles.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 15, 2024, 09:24:03 am
Post by: Michelle on June 15, 2024, 09:24:03 am
I struggled with photos until i realized the attach photos option is NOT available with a "quick reply".
If you start the quick reply and do "preview", it should bring up the full editor where you can scroll down and attach photos.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 15, 2024, 09:25:32 am
Post by: Michelle on June 15, 2024, 09:25:32 am
The two tanks come together into one discharge pipe only after the gate valves (dump valves). The tanks are not "combined" until both valves are open at the same time.
As Dan states here, this is shown in the photo in my reply above, #59 direct link to post: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain. (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=48056.msg486082#msg486082)
That doesn't mean a previous owner didn't do a radical replumbing of the waste tank system, but immediate prior owner Tim never mentioned on the forum and OP would have to remove the utility bay panel to see for certain how the coach waste plumbing is configured.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: thelazyjays on June 17, 2024, 10:33:59 pm
Post by: thelazyjays on June 17, 2024, 10:33:59 pm
OMG.
this is soooo embarrassing.
We had it backwards. Yes, black handle = grey water. Silver handle = black tank.
How many days...? How much money..?
🤣🤣🤣
To be fair, I learned a whole lot about Fritz. I certainly have more confidence that we can handle pretty much anything that comes our way with Fritz.
I owe you all a debt of gratitude. You were so generous with your time and your knowledge.
I look forward to hanging out around the campfire, if you'll have us.
this is soooo embarrassing.
We had it backwards. Yes, black handle = grey water. Silver handle = black tank.
How many days...? How much money..?
🤣🤣🤣
To be fair, I learned a whole lot about Fritz. I certainly have more confidence that we can handle pretty much anything that comes our way with Fritz.
I owe you all a debt of gratitude. You were so generous with your time and your knowledge.
I look forward to hanging out around the campfire, if you'll have us.
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: SuperFore on June 18, 2024, 12:27:47 pm
Post by: SuperFore on June 18, 2024, 12:27:47 pm
Sometimes it's just the simplest solutions that we overlook...
Title: Re: Losing my mind... Shower will not drain.
Post by: Michelle on June 18, 2024, 04:56:12 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 18, 2024, 04:56:12 pm
We had it backwards. Yes, black handle = grey water. Silver handle = black tank.
How many days...? How much money..?
Do consider switching to the SeeLevel tank monitor system - this would give you better peace of mind on your tank levels as well.