I know many here have switched to lithium house batteries. I see a lot of brands for sale from a large number of vendors at various prices.
What brand did you install? How many AH's? What was the price" How long have you had them? How are they holding up?
I see some review websites on the subject but wonder if they are legit.
Examples:
Search rankings for Rv Batteries Lithium in the US - July 2024 | BestProducts... (https://www.bestproductsreviews.com/search/rv-batteries-lithium)
Best Lithium Deep Cycle Batteries (https://buyersguide.org/lithium-deep-cycle-battery/t/best)
I replaced my 3 210 A/H Lifeline 4DL AGMs with 2 of these.
Amazon.com: 12V 300Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery, Built-in 200A BMS, Max.3840Wh... (https://www.amazon.com/LIPULS-LiFePO4-Max-3840Wh-Lifetime-Off-Grid/dp/B0CN3G2549/ref=rvi_d_sccl_2/142-3868629-5341907?pd_rd_w=Dz8nh&content-id=amzn1.sym.f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_p=f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_r=TM1HJ5BF74QG7NM4TMN3&pd_rd_wg=5L5LE&pd_rd_r=e800eb62-1c4a-439e-b7a4-cc6d53e656b4&pd_rd_i=B0CN3G2549&th=1)
Unfortunately, these are now discontinued and will be replaced with a newer product soon according to their customer support.
I would suggest this one.
https://www.amazon.com/LIPULS-LiFePO4-Lithium-Off-Grid-Trolling/dp/B0CSVR3ZGF/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UnWmUo4ak_dCQtoJ-MIlr4Gpfzl_zAktsYZ8lvJPymQunfQQtDuftyqH0YT5_9aO3sz53MWYyVcJp3fYn3UxnL1qK6wDJqeSyVy3uW8bgOrdwrpPEt6C7G3Lug5KA8yG_JLo9wwX0qq7zyZP2E1ZlCxaosaMpTywvQwzrsWVXxTehs6iKyA-uUhaqh71o9j-oovZNLPkQYqhwVwVt2uxkzLvTxqkIpXMa7Z69eU7Di0gg7KG8j5NJ8FwTxdpbPGNoji1wE7T29wrhVUK_Lp29qVsAQGWrI0bV04NGQtN17E.UkSI_ULlOvY0rWXR13gS2SWHQCAE_yplqXZ6PJfFtpk&dib_tag=se&keywords=lipuls&qid=1722422533&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
So far results are very good. It is working very well with the original alternator charging system, the diode isolater and 270 A/H alternator. I chose to stay with the 600 A/H capacity for that match. Bulk charging the 600 A/H bank is pulling~150 amps tapering down as battery voltage builds. The BMS works very well and when the batteries reach full charge actually turns off charge current.
I upgraded the inverter/charger to a 3000 watt/150 A/H charger.
Xantrex | FREEDOM XC PRO Marine (https://xantrex.com/products/inverter-chargers/freedomxcpromarine/)
FREEDOM XC PRO Marine 3000
3000W, 150A
PN: 818-3015
This unit matched with the existing wiring for both the batteries and 110V circuit.
Major benefit so far was weight reduction, (230 pounds) and much more linear charging process. My plan is to be able to dry camp when AC is not needed running the generator for 1-2 hours day. The hydronic heating system takes a lot of power for winter camping.
Have had Lithium pros for 5 years,no problems,if you can wait and go to Quarzite you can get a good deal at the tent.
Just 3 weeks ago I installed three SOK Lith., Inverter upgrade to the Xantrex xc 3000 pro marine.
the batteries $2600 ,free shipping direct for SOK.com the app that you can down load gives real time individual batt. status.
I am currently looking at 460AH Vatrer or Epoch batteries. Seems Epoch has bit more, heated and Victron coms, quite bit more money. Going to put in one now and set up for 1 or 2 more later. My AGMs are shot. Any thoughts/suggestions?
4 months ago I replaced three shot Lifeline AGM house batteries with 2 Epoch 460ah. I also updated the Xantrex 2500 with new Xantrex 3000. One of the Epoch batteries supplies more amp hours than the three Lifelines ever did. I also installed a 60 amp DC to DC charger to protect the alternator. We've only made one short trip since the install but I'm very impressed with the Epoch batteries. I went with the less expensive version with Bluetooth and heaters, no need for the marine grade batteries. Now we can overnight easily with no hookups and the residential refrigerator running. Hope they hold up long term but with less than a year in service they have been rock solid.
The Bluetooth app for the batteries is informative and pretty darn neat.
I put 3 200 ah Ampretime batteries from Amazon in on mar. 21st 2021 This was before anything higher amp hour was available. If I had the chance to put the 460 ah batteries in I would have bought them instead. Prices have come way down and capacities have gone way up. Mine are still doing fine over 3 years later.
I have a 48-volt, 100 A/H Vatrer battery for my golf cart. Wonderful product.
The drivers for my battery choice were the cost per A/H, size near direct replacement, and BMS capacity to easily start the Generator.
For value I have 600 A/H capacity for ~$1,000 after discounts, coupons, and sales tax. Per battery cost is the same as a tank of fuel.
Each battery has a BMS that can deliver 200 A/H sustained. My 12.5K generator needs ~ 265 A/H as tested. The 400 combined A/H gives me adequate reserve. Observed starting performance is much improved over the 3, 210 A/H Lifelines.
I again stayed with the 600 A/H to maintain engine alternator charging compatibility. I now also have an unused tray to add a 3rd. 300 A/H battery.
I went with 3 Epoch 460 ah non marine battery. Only have them for a few months now, so no real experience yet.
Main thing is. Whatever lithium you choose will likely be obsolete in 6 months. Lower price for more amp hrs.
In the 5 years that we've used our Lion Energy batts. They have used 37 charge cycles and there good for 3000. So I'll never have to buy batteries again, except for engine.
Now we have changed the way rv, often going post to post BUT ... not always. And for those times we boondock 2 or 3 nights. Well,well worth the spend.
Cause I sucked at managing those agm house batteries.
This is the battery I used, Note the add that it is new for 2024.
LIPULS 12V 300Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery - High-Capacity Power for Demanding... (https://lipuls.com/products/lipuls-12v-300ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery)
Their customer service told me (email) that it is discontinued. So, if I do add a 3rd battery it won't be matched.
I bought a stack of my buds ex Racevcar batteries . I was told that each 12 volt pack was 185 ah.
Turns out that each cell is 180ah. That explains a lot of the unexpected performance. The 2000 watt solar charged 2 packs pretty nicely .
But now I need to charge 2 700ah batteries in my van .
What charger is a decent go to. ? Research shows that I need 69-80 amp at 14.6 volt.
I come to the Li Time company on a search .
Each 3.2V cell is 185 ah. Since they are wired in series to get 12V you still have only 185 ah. If they were parallel then you would add them up.
Right.
Thanks.
After searching forever, I finally ordered a 300 AH MOSEWORTH with a (ironclad?) 10 year guarantee from Walmart for $469.99. It should be here by Thursday.
I would have ordered 2 but I only have 500 watts of solar. 300 usable AH is twice as much as I ever had when loaded up with Trogan lead acid golf cart batteries.
12V 300Ah LiFePO4 Battery,200A BMS,15000 Deep Cycles,3840Wh,MOSEWORTH... (https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-300Ah-LiFePO4-Battery-200A-BMS-15000-Deep-Cycles-3840Wh-Lithium-Battery-for-RV-off-Grid-Solar-Motorhome-and-Boats/7416566852?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101644009&gclsrc=aw.ds&&adid=222222222277416566852_101644009_164767907190_21182072326&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=696398913581&wl4=pla-2293796651267&wl5=9030366&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=5357039632&wl11=online&wl12=7416566852_101644009&veh=sem&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwh7K1BhCZARIsAKOrVqGdU6QconwL2taSboDRPUg22eFo5RrCqpT8ftIQkhixQsHREEuojrcaAl1fEALw_wcB)
That is the best price per AH I have seen. Does not have low temp cuttoff as many have.
Thanks for pointing that out. Even in AZ it can get down into the 30's. I guess I could put a low watt light down there with a thermo-cube. I did that with the water pump in my old coach I also have a heating pad.
I believe Roger used snowmobile hand warmers for his.
I brought two 300 amph AmperTime (now LiTime). They are two and a half years old and they are doing a great job with my residential fridge and extended boondocking. I have 900 watts solar with Victron controllers and B2B. At Quartzsite in winter with clouds and heavy use of propane heater overnight I don't break even and need about an hour of generator time. AmperTime did not offer low temperature protection or heaters then, they do now. They answer technical emails quickly and fully. I set up 12 volt heaters designed for dump valves - two per battery long sides mounted to pieces of thin sheet metal and insulated with styrofoam. They are controlled by a single programmable gizmo t Amazon. I've been down to 12 degrees F. Are 8D form factor and fit in my original battery compartment in the bay with fuel tank driver side. I have a battery sense that prevents the solar from charging below 5C. I chose them because Will Prowse did a number of tear downs and tests which were all favorable, including these specific batteries. At the time 300 amph was the best price point for them and provided a good cushion for my needs.
I mounted a in-line fan under the couch, to provide cooling and heat from the main cabin, seems to work pretty good in the winter I place a small heater in front of the vent and in the summer the mini split is blowing cold air on the floor.
I'm really liking the EG4-LL's from Signature Solar. They are a rack mounted solution that fits nicely in the battery bay. Just remember that you will have to swap out your inverter unless it is lithium compliant.
Picture attached of my installation. I have one more sitting in the shop that I need to add.
Kevin
Those sure look good! No problems with road vibration?
I've probably put 5000 miles on those rack batteries and still working perfectly.
Kevin
Next question: My new battery should be here on Friday and I am not comfortable trying to attach all the cables I currently have connected to my AGM to the posts on the lithium. (see photos)
What have others done in this situation? A picture says 1,000 words.
I made 8 mm studs long enough to hold all the cables.
Time for some serious commitment to battery cables and connections. As a rule there should never be more than 2 cables on a stud/bolt connection. 1 is even better. Here are some bus bars to look at.
Amazon.com : bus bars (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bus+bars&crid=6FZVNC1AZ1F9&sprefix=bus+bars%2Caps%2C83&ref=nb_sb_noss_1)
Get some real crimp tools and use heavy duty ring terminals, the correct 8mm size for the battery and whatever size bus bars you get.
SELTERM 25pcs 6 AWG 1/4" Stud Marine Grade Tinned Copper Battery Cable Lugs,... (https://www.amazon.com/SELTERM-Marine-Terminal-Battery-Eyelets/dp/B073FCC8H9/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1HAC7S3UB8KJA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.WiqsrKUJdNosbcJwKmJkpxpuT1zyW-dpfaza7UG37iEr_ulnI4lHM2Ou9-L0NxDNHQtQmJEJdF7JiJ_9Bvv6VAJuxYfqxlWOfKdnufkAIZ5pvjays_jFpyvUFLXUqibQCuaf3YJ8ZjrajN2fHAwn1SLz_f2cKociLfCWpPH86sCX5mfjnSgXTHeCFOWKhUX03qjVnZ8gT8ARHArPivEHRY6S7fotrpxckeel_m38V1qAQOCpMDAOGtPwJYsx2ks37FZYjCrTThCVoUrq-B63CEtvkdeQSaNXGWgkoQjKnuY.dYaYb3VZl50MZ1sWsE5lbsfY3Hw2IzFw2EwrDfDYCkY&dib_tag=se&keywords=selterm&qid=1722960380&sprefix=selterm%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-6)
Especially for inverter loads and generator starting the wiring can often be more important than the batteries.
Excellent point, and thank you. There are a bunch of YouTube videos on this subject. We are getting a little off subject but I added a link to one below.
I have a good crimper. My coach did not come with an inverter. When I bought it in 2016 I added 500 watts of solar panels, an mttp charge controller and wired a 750 watt inverter to power one circuit in the coach. It has served me well up to this point but I should probably think about an inverter/charger and adding more solar panels.
https://youtu.be/SrJvFwTyYNo?si=kHHMYArTtSp2aaaU
Care is also needed in the selection of battery cables. There is a lot of garbage out there including wire that is aluminum with copper cladding. You want minimum resistance as 12-volt systems are quickly affected by voltage drop. For those willing to pay this is amongst my favorite cable choice.
https://catalogs.lawsonproducts.com/lawsoncatalog/Lawson-Products-Volume-38-Catalog-2023/18-3/
As part of assembling the cable ends you also want a good quality shrink tube to keep moisture and other contamination out t=of the wire ends. I prefer heavier wall stuff that also has a sealant inside.
Blue Sea Systems 5191 Fuse Block Terminal 30-300 AMP: Battery Terminal Fuse:... (https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5191-Terminal/dp/B0019ZBTV4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2DR2AM9ZVJ17F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lpkl1D0BPgshQP7cHoGuv3JlccihCOKmWFAiIopINwqNbEU24Sp3bWK8LIe3FS9lcyNmKaGJnDjYzEVjTmF9TIyOczz72RWdH4bIWvL_MScULVpF2AcPgu6I9XhMF3hqTPc4Bd_0TrcWUAMqsRJoKV9GvdwB2FxIMcj0KizLOQPw3vE0fpLmCHn7kgTdBJDMxCBZR3-if3pUtXaEmVVYbyLTLc-Z8lIgzAeJ4MZ0hXY.OeZuo7gzdRXnc1xEMptL3-c7TICuhp4V3yYxkW1DsDY&dib_tag=se&keywords=buss%2Bbattery%2Bfuse%2Bholder&qid=1723001667&sprefix=buss%2Bbattery%2Bfuse%2Bholder%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-6&th=1)
Spiderhitch, did you go with the Vatrer 460? What's your opinion? I'm thinking of replacing my 6 BB 100's with 2 460's, and 2 Vatrer will fit...don't need Victron link but the Bluetooth is appealing.
Following.
I ordered 3 of these: Amazon.com: Litime 12V 400Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery 3200W Max. Load Power... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BR4C358?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title)
They should be delivered Sept. 9 or 10th. Hope to have them installed that day as all is ready for the installation.
That is a lot of battery capacity. What are you feeding and how are you charging them?
Some pretty darn impressive battery systems being configured here. I sincerely hope everyone is taking proper safety precautions in handling these high amperage units, get a wrench between terminals on a 400 ah battery and it'll be like God's own welding rig striking an arc. Face shield, insulating gloves, proper tools at a minimum along with a healthy dose of respect for the huge amount of energy contained in one of these innocuous looking packages.
is that 52 volt 100 AH versions, so 5000 + Wh capacity ?
So inverter/charger need to handle 12 volt, 52 volt and 115 volt?
What inverter did you go with ? Victron ?
The solar charge controllers convert the solar voltage up to 150v back to 12 volts.
It should be noted that the Lithium-Ion batteries are the most dangerous types, not the LFP or Lithium Iron Phosphate type. Tesla still uses the Li-ion in their longer range vehicles as it gives 3x the range for the same size/weight. Since 2021, they have changed to LFP batteries in the standard range cars. BYD vehicles, like the ones sold in Mexico and Canada, use LFP batteries so can be safely parked in a garage. In buying new house batteries, check the type and do the research.
The danger for RVs is a cobbled together battery(s) made from Li-ion. If they catch fire, they take a large amount of water to put out and can self ignite hours or even days later.
Pierce
Being the adventurer I am, I went ahead and ordered 2 Vatrer 460's from the jungle website, and they arrived quickly, undamaged in well packaged boxes. The date of manufacture was only 20 days ago!!! Seriously??? That's been verified with the app connection to the BMS. Wowza.
Installed today and so far I am really impressed. They fit perfectly into the OEM FT 8D lower rack, albeit sideways from ideal....ie the terminals and on/off switch facing to the right/rear. Can't get to the ON/OFF switch readily, but in my config, this config requires much shorter cables to my junction blocks. I tried rotating the steel rack 90 deg but it's too snug a fit between the rear bulkhead/fuel tank without modification...maybe later.
So for the arithmetic challenged, any FT with 8D house batteries, you could replace those 150# 8D anchors with these 100# packs for 1200 bucks each and double your actual available Ah capacity, at 2/3 the weight. Duh. And if you still have the 3rd U320 8D rack, you could triple the factory AGM ampHour capacity and go full coach electric like the big dogs.
The Overkill Solar app allows you to turn charge and discharge on/off on each pack individually vs. pushing the button(s)...awesome!!! (But buttons need to be ON.....when you parallel 2 packs the blue switch light will illuminate, but the BMS/bluetooth is NOT fully integrated!!!). This might come in handy for some off grid applications??
From reviews, I did not even try the App suggested by Vatrer....Overkill Solar app displays everything (and more) than I need.
Pics below show install of the previous 6x100A BattleBorn and the 2 Vatrer 460's. Anxious to feedback my impressions of the comparisons to the BB's.
Hoping to sell all or most of my Battleborn's to offset the upgrade....never "cold", and never abused....half price. Might bring to Q. PM if interested.
W.
(edit....replaced BB pic with a better comparison)
I have a 48 Volt 100 A/H Vatrer battery in my golf cart. Justification was the ability to "turn it off" for storage. Lat storage was from January to just a few weeks ago. Battery was charged when I left and when I returned it was still at 28%. With the charger that came with it, it was fully charged again in about 2.5 hours. This battery is now about 2 years old.
Despite various charging and storage rituals the lead acid batteries were often not lasting 2 years and 6, 8 volt batteries were a near $1,200 expense so this just made sense. When in Florida using the cart, the LA batteries would need to be charged every 2 to 3 days. This last trip I only need to charge it once for the 10-day visit.
The display and Bluetooth app work well including being able to monitor the individual cell voltages.
For my Foretravel upgrade I was looking for something more cost efficient and drop in. As I have battery metering, I did not see the need for communications and as my batteries are in the center of the coach I don't see an issue with cold weather operation. I went with the LiTimes, 300 A/H. 2 of these gave me the 600 A I had with the 3 210 A/H Lifelines for about $1,100. It is working well with the original engine starting system. I am thinking of adding a 3rd battery, but I would have to address current control from the alternator. My coach used the 4D batteries so I also needed a smaller footprint to get them on the rack.
.
Sorry, I just noticed this question. I am using a Victron Multiplus 3000 that I replaced my original Prosine with. I just replaced the original isolator with an Orion XS 50 A DC/DC Battery Charger (B2B 12v/12v). I added a Victron 12 V 30A Blue Smart IP22 Charger for the START batteries. A Cerbo GX with display and a smart shunt let me see what is happening to both sets of batteries by wifi from anywhere. Solar is in my future, but since I keep the coach under roof except when traveling, I have not added any panels yet, but now I am ready to consider adding them to my system.
The 50A DC charger for 1,200 AH of battery puts you at a 24-hour charger rate. That is if you do not have any simultaneous loads such as a fridge. Some residential fridges can consume that or even more. Typically, you want to size battery chargers for an 8-charge rate plus the expected loads. Lithium's can actually charge faster, 4 hours rates often preferred as that keeps them from heating up.
The 50 amp B2B is to limit the tendency for the alternator to overexert itself trying to charge the lithiums while driving. I know of no time that I would need to be fully charging the lithiums during travel. Eventually I will have solar to assist the B2B in charging the lithiums. If it is hot, I will be running my generator to power our ACs which will also put the Multiplus online. Thanks for your thoughts.
Ditto your thoughts Herb. I ran Battleborns for 3 years before installing the B2B charger(s). It gives peace of mind for sure. Before I did the B2B's, I'd have to run the generator for an hour or so before shoving off, just to make sure the batteries didn't overtax the engine genny. Not any more. Crank up, stow and go. W.