Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: kevo0000 on October 06, 2024, 05:45:11 am
Title: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 06, 2024, 05:45:11 am
Hya all, would anyone know if it's possible to remove the bottom section of the radiator on my 1990 villa, it appears I have a very slight leak, the radiator verticle fins that the water travels through seem OK, if i wipe the channel at the bottom and watch, I can see the very smallest bit of water looks like it's coming upward maybe from the gasket, 'I know the power steering fluid runs through this bottom section, must be an internal pipe and the water around it cools it down, i dont really want to take the radiator out because that looks like a right akward job, but if i can remove the bottom section clean and fit a new gasket then that might be alot easier, has anyone ever done this job please, and also any information would be appreciated on where I can buy a complete set of radiator gaskets as shown in diagram thanks kev
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: John44 on October 06, 2024, 06:12:51 am
Don't think any power steering fluid runs in that radiator according to the diagram,I would try some stop leak for now and in the near future as rusty as that thing looks just bite the bullet and remove it have have it repaired at a good shop.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 06, 2024, 06:36:00 am
Don't think any power steering fluid runs in that radiator according to the diagram,I would try some stop leak for now and in the near future as rusty as that thing looks just bite the bullet and remove it have have it repaired at a good shop.
Are you sure about my power steering, when I removed my power steering pipes ages ago, the inlet pipe from the power steering reservoir connected to this bottom bit, and the out also connected to bottom of radiator, if you look at diagram I just sent you, you will see 1 connection which is the bottom water hose and 2 others, which are where my hydraulic connections go to, now surely if that's the case then there must be an internal pipe that runs through that bottom section of radiator to these 2 connections, i understand it as the water in this bottom section surrounds an internal hydraulic pipe running through it to cool the power steering fluid down, it's the only explanation I can think of because when I had the fluid pipes off, only fluid came out of it, maybe works similar to a heat exchanger, although there is nothing on the diagram showing a pipe inside or maybe a small cylinder to house the fluid, i cant think of any other explanation as to why 2 fluid pipes would be set in this bottom section,, thanks for your input anyway, perhaps later in the day somebody may have had this section apart in the past, it's still a bit early yet, it's 11.35hrs in UK, i think your 6hrs behind us so most of the members I think will still be in bed, all the best kev
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 06, 2024, 09:58:13 am
...I know the power steering fluid runs through this bottom section, must be an internal pipe and the water around it cools it down...
...any information would be appreciated on where I can buy a complete set of radiator gaskets as shown in diagram...
Kev,
I don't doubt your ability to trace the route of some hydraulic hoses, so I would assume you are correct about having a power steering fluid cooler in the bottom of your radiator. It is much more common, at least on the later Foretravel coaches, to find a transmission fluid cooler in the bottom of radiators. These coolers, regardless of application, can be a source of trouble when they (eventually) start to leak. The fluid in the cooler mixes with the coolant in the radiator, leading to expensive repair jobs.
As to a source for radiator gaskets, I doubt the radiator in your coach is a standard size model, for which new gasket sets will be readily available. If you decide to disassemble the radiator, I'm afraid you may have to resort to having gaskets custom cut from bulk gasket material, or using some kind of gasket-in-a-tube.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: Dennis H on October 06, 2024, 10:13:15 am
I am very familiar with that level of rust and corrosion not only on the radiator assembly but surrounding steel work. You will have your hands full. Some of those bolts will need to be cut or torched to get them out. That radiator owes no one anything. it is done. You will likely find that the reason the gasket is failing is that the flanges are corroded inside also. While I really hate the idea maybe some heavy stop-leak treatment can buy you some time.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 06, 2024, 03:40:45 pm
I am very familiar with that level of rust and corrosion not only on the radiator assembly but surrounding steel work. You will have your hands full. Some of those bolts will need to be cut or torched to get them out. That radiator owes no one anything. it is done. You will likely find that the reason the gasket is failing is that the flanges are corroded inside also. While I really hate the idea maybe some heavy stop-leak treatment can buy you some time.
Yeah thanks for input, I know your right absolutely, it's one of those jobs that youl do everything and anything to avoid taking the radiator out, it seems to be quite a big job, that leak has been there for probably the last 4 or 5 years maybe longer, it just hasn't got any worse, and as long as I keep checking the water regular never a problem until one day maybe, what I am thinking of doing is draining the coolant so I can get the lot nice and dry all along the bottom of that radiator, you can buy this resin mix in tube that is 50/50, and pour it in that channel, plus I would also put a leak stopper in the coolant system aswell, it may prolong the agony for another couple of years, just out of curiosity how mutch would a new radiator cost me that's if there still available, it's quite heavy and bulky so the shipping would be a hell of a lot aswell, there may be some places that sell good used rads if new turns out to be too expensive, i had to do that when I replaced my 8.2ltr, I bought and had that shipped from a company called aldermans in the USA, excellant company was well pleased with the engine I bought, come to think of it I wish now when I had the engine out I serviced the radiator at the same time, just didn't enter my head, anyway thanks for any help, mutch appreciated
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: craneman on October 06, 2024, 04:15:57 pm
Radiator cores themselves are generic. You can find one that matches your dimensions and do the work yourself or have a truck repair facility locate and change out the core.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 06, 2024, 05:39:40 pm
Radiator cores themselves are generic. You can find one that matches your dimensions and do the work yourself or have a truck repair facility locate and change out the core.
Yeah thanks, I've had a look at that radiator many times, and in my opinion, the only way to remove the whole radiator would be to raise the rear of the vehicle and lower the radiator down, it's a heavy lump aswell, from what I've seen on a lot of newer models, the rear end comes apart and there is full access to radiator,, il figure it out somehow when I have to, but for now I'm gonna try the simple fix, I've done simple fixes on things before and they can turn out to be permanent but not always, it's a fifty fifty chance
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: red tractor on October 06, 2024, 08:08:42 pm
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 07, 2024, 02:22:29 am
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
Yeah I have thought about doing that myself, il have a look more into that one, but for now, il first try the simple fix, thanks kev
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: Dennis H on October 07, 2024, 06:22:04 am
At some point you need to consider the impact if this radiator suddenly has a massive failure. It happens. As for the cooling system, unlike adding oil, regularly having to add coolant is not good. Every time coolant is added so is some dissolved oxygen increasing corrosion of the metals inside the engine and other parts of the cooling system. If adding tap water, you are also adding deposits that somehow never leave with the leak, they just accumulate. Also, if coolant is leaking out during heating expansion, when it cools air can be sucked back in. On engine start up you want the cooling system to quickly pressurize to help maintain contact, (avoid localized boiling), at the cylinder walls to avoid cylinder cavitation erosion. The hardest part of this job is getting started. The next hardest part is going to be the finances. These are the challenges that come with older vehicles. My 04 Tropi-Cal needed the radiator replaced at around 50K miles. You are lucky if this is your first replacement. It will be much more enjoyable to drive it with one less time bomb taken care properly.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 07, 2024, 08:12:22 am
At some point you need to consider the impact if this radiator suddenly has a massive failure. It happens. As for the cooling system, unlike adding oil, regularly having to add coolant is not good. Every time coolant is added so is some dissolved oxygen increasing corrosion of the metals inside the engine and other parts of the cooling system. If adding tap water, you are also adding deposits that somehow never leave with the leak, they just accumulate. Also, if coolant is leaking out during heating expansion, when it cools air can be sucked back in. On engine start up you want the cooling system to quickly pressurize to help maintain contact, (avoid localized boiling), at the cylinder walls to avoid cylinder cavitation erosion. The hardest part of this job is getting started. The next hardest part is going to be the finances. These are the challenges that come with older vehicles. My 04 Tropi-Cal needed the radiator replaced at around 50K miles. You are lucky if this is your first replacement. It will be much more enjoyable to drive it with one less time bomb taken care properly.
Yeah good advise thanks, mutch appreciated
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 11, 2024, 05:37:11 am
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
Just having a look this morning, about what you said about removing piece of fibre glass I'm sure it will come out that way, I think if I remove the cooling fan first, that will also make the job easier, i definately have enough width for it to come out, from there, it needs to come out and be sorted properly, i have to except that, , I may be able to get mine pressure tested and repaired, won't know until it's off and all stripped down how bad it is, this radiator in particular, would it be quite easy to find one, and obviously all the new gaskets I would need. I'm all prepared for another delay now before I finally get it on the road, I was hoping to finish it by end of this month, but now looking alot further, probably sometime in the new year, and with winter approaching, I'm definately not a working outside in the cold person anymore,
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 11, 2024, 05:40:00 am
I have decided to remove the radiator Just having a look this morning, about what you said about removing piece of fibre glass I'm sure it will come out that way, I think if I remove the cooling fan first, that will also make the job easier, i definately have enough width for it to come out, from there, it needs to come out and be sorted properly, i have to except that, , I may be able to get mine pressure tested and repaired, won't know until it's off and all stripped down how bad it is, this radiator in particular, would it be quite easy to find one, and obviously all the new gaskets I would need. I'm all prepared for another delay now before I finally get it on the road, I was hoping to finish it by end of this month, but now looking alot further, probably sometime in the new year, and with winter approaching, I'm definately not a working outside in the cold person anymore,
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: JohnFitz on October 11, 2024, 01:25:18 pm
I had my radiator replaced and it came out the back. Here a post with a photo of the notch made in the fiberglass. I have a 6V92 engine so this may not apply: Rear Radiator Removal (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=48154.msg486642#msg486642)
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: red tractor on October 11, 2024, 08:17:17 pm
Only thing I can add is it is heavy. It 2 of us to lift it out. Removing the fan is almost a necessity.
Title: Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa
Post by: kevo0000 on October 12, 2024, 02:22:10 am