I am at a campground that has a GFCI on the 30A circuit (no 50A). The GFCi trips as soon as the transfer switch on the coach kicks in. I have run into this problem a couple times before. I tried narrowing down the problem by first turning off all of the 110 breakers. The ground fault trips as soon as I turn on the main breaker, even with all the other breakers off. Just to be certain, I pulled all the breakers from the main panel except the main, and pulled the main breaker from the secondary panel, and it still trips as soon as I turn on the main breaker in the coach and the transfer switch engages. I have enough solar to get by with everything but the air conditioning, but I would like to figure out what is causing the problem.
Which GFCI - one in the coach or does the campground have one at the site breaker?
It is possible that in your transfer switch or the breaker panel the ground and neutral are attached together. If a gfci sees this it will trip out. Check with a VOM meter and verify that you do not have any continuity between the neutral and ground wire.
You probably will have the neutral and ground connected on the generator side, but this should be isolated by the transfer switch from showing up when connected to shore power.
You may need to disconnect the neutral wires one by one, with the breaker off, to find where the problem of the GFCI tripping.
The one on the site's pedestal.
Out of curiosity, what inverter/charger do you have?
ETA - I have seen some recent articles regarding RV parks adding GFCI to their site electrical hookups. We've not encountered it ourselves and I don't believe code currently requires it for 30 or 50 amp, only 15/20 amp.
ETA2 - just found this RVIA article Grounding Monitor Interrupters On RVs And Its Impact On RV Campgrounds | RVIA (https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/grounding-monitor-interrupters-rvs-and-its-impact-rv-campgrounds) which states
On the RV Park side, it was suggested that Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) receptacles for the 30A and 50A services be installed on the RV pedestal. That suggestion was not adopted because electrical leakage current from the various electrical devices in an RV would cause a nuisance trip of the GFCI.
Can run power to another pedestal maybe the gifs weak
Gfci was required on RV pedestals per the National Electrical Code (NEC) Shortly later they removed the required for RV parks. This Gcfi 30 amp receptacle was either installed when the NEC required, insurance required, or inspector required it. Inspectors are almost God, majority of the time, when an electrical inspector says that we have to do something, contractor do it to get job inspection passed.
It is possible that an old inverter/charger could be causing the problem.
If you said the pedestal did not trip until coach main breaker was closed, would leave out the transfer switch as it would close as soon as coach power was present at the transfer switch.
It is a Xantrex Prosine 2.0. I believe it is the original inverter/charger.
The entire electrical system at this park is new as of this season, so it is unlikely the GFCI is bad. Plus, I have had this issue in the past at other parks with ground fault protection, so I believe the problem is with the coach.
This is in a Quebec National Park. I assume they installed it because their codes require it, but I don't know for sure. The entire electrical install is new as of this season.
I agree. Also, it trips when the coach main breaker is closed, even with all the other breakers pulled from the main panel and the main breaker pulled from the sub panel. That indicates to me that the problem is not in any of the branch circuits. Also, the generator should be out if the circuit when it is not running. That seems to leave the inverter, unless I am overlooking something.
With all your diagnosis, problem has been isolated to main breaker panel. Inverter is out of the picture as it gets power off main breaker panel.
Look carefully to see if any green ground buss bar is wired to any white neutral buss bar. With power off like another said you could use a meter to check for continuity between neutral & ground buss bars in main breaker box. If this is all too much to do at this campground, if you have electricity somewhere else you could make a 20-amp test bed with an extension cord & store bought 20-amp GFCI, using 30-to-20 adapter, taking your time to open the main breaker and find the problem.
Pedestal GFCI trips when any amount of hot wire current is not exactly equal to current on neutral wire.
Another test could be to use a 30-to-20-amp adapter and see if the pedestal 20-amp GFCI trips. If not tripping use a long temporary extension and connect to another pedestal for a moment if you can.
Normally there are a lot of RV devices that could trip a GFCI, but you have all breakers off. And you have determined that your transfer switch does not trip GFCI when main breaker is off.
Your 30-to-50 amp adapter combines the RV power cord line-1 & 2 (red & black) hot wires to campground single black hot. Be interesting to remove one of the main breaker hot wires so when you close the main breaker you are only flowing current to one side of the main breaker, to see if one side or the other could be contributing to the trip.
How about closing the main breaker with downline breakers open, before closing the pedestal 30-amp breaker. Assume this was your original trip scenario.
Keep in touch
There is a possibility that since the system is new that the breaker is bad. You need to verify that there is no continuity between the neutral and ground wires. First test at the 50 amp plug, I would also test your dog bone to verify that it does not have the neutral and ground together.
Why not get in touch with Mike Sokol, he is an authority on most things electric(especially RV's and campground electric problems) and has a daily blog. This might be something he might like to expound on his website.
yep, new definitely doesn't guarantee that it's good.
I tried hooking up to the 110 GFCI on the pedestal using an adapter, snd it tripped as well. That seems to indicate the ground fault breaker is not the issue. I also checked continuity on the 50A plug and the 30 to 50 adapter and found no problems. The fact the breaker doesn't trip until the transfer switch kicks in also indicates the problem is not with the plug/cord or the adapter.
I tried it in that order as well and the result was the same. I also visually checked for wires connecting the neutral and ground in both breaker boxes and didn't find any. The one thing I didn't do was check for continuity between the neutral and ground. I will have to do that whenever I get the boxes opened up again.
One question I have is whether opening the breaker for the inverter, or even pulling it like I did, necessarily eliminates the inverter. If the neutral and ground are bonded through the inverter, wouldn't that connection remain even if the power going to the inverter is removed? The breaker only affects the hot leg; it doesn't change how the neutral and ground are connected.
It is possible that the inverter has neutral and ground connected and backfeed to the panel. If you disconnect the neutral wire in your main panel it would eliminate the inverter.
Just to verify pedestal is wired correctly, do you have a toaster or other high wattage appliance that you can plug into the 20amp plug on the pedestal. If that works, then we can eliminate pedestal as the problem
Pulling the breaker does not eliminate the inverter as the problem. Removing the hot and white wire from the panel will remove the inverter complete from the system. The inverter should only be combining the neutral and ground when it is inverting on the load side. The line side should stay separate.
I would start by making sure the neutral ang ground is not bonded in that main panel. There may be a misconnection on one of the branch circuits or even in an appliance. Having the breakers off will not isolate a downstream ground-neutral connection. There could also be a wiring failure in the rig. The inverter bypass relay could also be cause of fault. It would need to have the ground and neutral disconnected to isolate.
Have you done a reset on the Prosine?
This is a good read on the topic: https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-what-is-a-gfci-nuisance-trip/
The campground sent someone out to check the pedestal. He checked it over and tested it with a circular saw. It didn't trip.
What sort of reset do you mean? I have turned it on and off at the inverter, but nothing beyond that.
That sounds logical, but I may wait on that until I get somewhere more permanent later this year. I don't want to get into that much while I am here--unless I find that more campgrounds in Canada have ground fault receptacles. We will be in Canada until the middle of September.
Something is confusing, I thought you had previously said pedestal GFCI does not trip when transfer switch closes. And that it does trip when main breaker is closed.
Did I just read "The fact the breaker doesn't trip until the transfer switch kicks in". If so, you have your problem identified. Why look elsewhere. . .
Barry, problem could also be past the Transfer switch since once the transfer switch closes, it then connects the main panel where there could be a connection between neutral and ground.
dbennett9 When you open the panel also check and make sure there is not a green screw in the neutral bar.
The way I worded that was unclear. When I said that the breaker doesn't trip until the transfer switch kicks in, I was responding to whether the problem might be in the pedestal, 30A adapter, or cord--basically, anything external to the coach. To be more precise, I should have said that, with the main breaker in the coach on, the ground fault does not trip until the transfer switch kicks in. That, to me, indicates the problem cannot be before the transfer switch. If the main breaker is off, the ground fault does not trip when the transfer switch kicks in; in that situation, it does not trip until the main breaker is switched on.
I have also, I believe, determined that the problem is not the inverter. I disconnected the ground wire from the main breaker box to the inverter as well as the ground wire from the inverter to chassis ground. The GFCI still trips the same as before.
While I had the breaker box open, I also checked for continuity between the ground bar and the neutral bar and got nothing, which leaves me even more confused than before.
When you are turning the main breaker on and gfi trips are the other breakers in the panel on or off?
I never had an issue with a GFI breaker till I installed my Victron inverter. Now it trips even on a 110 volt gfi. It would need to be disconnected from the circuit to use a GFI. I was so excited to have all its benefits. Very dissatisfied with my purchase at this point. Also had to disconnect the R2 circuit from the generator because it sees two legs of R1 and wont allow the second leg of R1 to pass through to the R2 leg as Foretravel originally designed it to do. So being wicked smart it creates a true R2 from R1 and overloads the generator. :facepalm:
GFCI will trip if there is about a millivolt different between black/red hot and white neutral for as short as millisecond. Neutral is not switched. Could replacing main breaker help?
Main breaker is not the problem.
It trips whether the other breakers are on or off. It even tripped when I had all the other breakers in the main panel pulled and the main breaker in the second panel pulled.
So it's a little more. on a 110 volt circuit you have a hot and neutral. The power goes and returns on these two legs. The third ground wire is only for your protection by signaling the GFI tripping open if any power is returning through the ground circuit. That is what the GFI/GFIC is looking for. Power from the hot or the neutral going to ground should trip the ground fault protection. On a two leg circuit you are looking for the same problem of the power wires leaking power to the ground circuit. 220 circuits will have power hot on both the red and back circuits at 220 volts R1 and R2. You also will have 115 volts across either to the neutral circuit. You also will have 115 volts to ground but should not carry any load because of the GFI protection. Grounds and neutrals are tied together in the circuit breaker panel feeding the pedestal (not in the coach) and in Nevada the ground is direct buried in the dirt but not attached to the transformer from the panel. So if you are grounded in the mud and touch a ground fault Interupted circuit you will get shocked but the power will immediately shut off. No GFI and you will cook. So if your coach has a neutral and a ground tied together it will return power to ground and trip the GFI. Ground and Neutral must stay separated in the coach or the GFI will trip
Post 34 should explained if you neutral and your ground are connected in your coach the GFI will trip
Did you do test that i have in post 18, second paragraph?
I agree, but I can't find any evidence they are connected. I haven't found a connection by visually inspecting the circuit breaker boxes, and when I checked for continuity between neutral and ground I got nothing.
The technician the park sent out tested the 110 ground fault by plugging in and running a circular saw. It didn't trip the breaker. Also, I have had this issue before at a couple of state parks in Illinois (apparently someone there decided they should have GFCI breakers). At one of those parks I tried two different pedestals. It isn't likely that every one of those breakers is bad or wired incorrectly.
Where did you measure neutral to ground continuity and how did you measure it, i.e. what type of meter?
The typical GFCI trip current is 5 ma or .005 amps. This would be a resistance of about 24,000 ohms or less between neutral or hot to ground - measure both. If you see a resistance like this then we need to find it.
I used a digital multimeter and it showed an open circuit—no reading. It is possible the meter is not accurate, but it is all I have.
A better meter would be a high quality analog meter but use what you have.
Where the measurement is taken may make a difference. With all breakers closed attach the shore cable with 50 amp to 30 amp adapter and then measure resistance of both hot and neutral to ground at the 30 amp plug terminals.
If I understand this procure, with no power, the transfer switch will be open and test will only test up to transfer switch
Yes, process of elimination. Then with all breakers closed test after the transfer relay. Hoping at some point we can get a resistance reading to track down.
Ok, I agreed.
Since only continuity tester was used we don't know the ohms where continuity tester says open or closed.
If I get some time today or next few days I will make a trouble shooting list for finding the problem.
I helped a guy on irv2 with gfci tripping problem and last I heard from him was we were thinking that 2 circuits had leakage. Neither one had enough to trip Gfci but together it was over the limit. Took him a while since Gfci would not trip right away when he applied power.
We will be moving tomorrow, so I will check either before we leave or after we get to the next location. Hopefully not every park in Canada uses ground fault breakers.
Disconnect the neutral for the inverter and see if your problem disappears. Leave the breaker open Also can disconnect the other neutrals to isolate. Just one neutral will corrupt the GFI. it will effect all the neutral circuits till removed even with breakers open. Just wait till it's mandatory to have arc fault breakers they are very safe, but way too smart for us.
I have been curious to isolate more.
If you leave main panel breaker off, with pedestal on for hours after transfer switch clicks on, will pedestal GFCI continue to work. (trying to eliminate transfer switch) Alternate removing black & red #6 wire into main breaker, close after each test. (trying to isolate if main breaker will trip GFCI with only one wire connected.)
I have been following your tread :
Assuming everything was working properly at a previous time and no changes were made to the wiring or installed equipment, then the factory installed wiring connections must be correct.
To check the wiring turn off every breaker in the panel and the inverter, the salesman disconnect at the steps, plug in the coach if it trips look at the power cord/ reel.
If nothing trips plug in the power cord, then turn on one circuit breaker at a time, at some point the GFCI will trip, the if the tripped circuit should be looked at, unplugging any connected item including possibly refrigerator or components in the basement and engine bay until the GFCI stops tripping, and you will have found your issue.
It only takes one fault to cause an issue.
Without isolating the issue you are looking for a needle in a hay stack,
Focus on narrowing down the search, take your time and methodical,
Good luck, an electrical fault can be so annoying!