When we bought our used coach from MOT it came with a changeover to Transynd (our dime).
I vaguely remember that we are supposed to have the Transynd completely drained and refilled at a certain interval. I think it was at 10,000 miles.
Thereafter ,we only have to change tranny fluid at ________ miles?
What do you guys do?
George,
Transynd change interval is 75,000 miles or 3 years for severe vocation or 150,000 miles or 48 months for general vocation.
Barry,
Does that mean I don't have to do an initial first change at 10,000? I hope.
Foretravel Service Bulletin
Date: 08/26/02
Subject: Service Allison Transmission 6 Speed (3000/4000)
Bulletin Number: M001063
2003 Models
Beginning with the first 2003 model, Foretravel uses TranSynd Transmission fluid as the initial factory fill. The use of the new gold series filters introduced by Allison Transmission will allow the transmission service intervals be extended to 75,000 miles or 36 months.
The initial main filter change will be required at 5,000 miles. The next scheduled transmission service will be required at 75,000 miles or 36 months whichever occurs first. The initial main filter change will require approximately 2-3 quarts of fluid for the MH3000 and 4-5 quarts for the MH4000 series.
2002 Model and Older
For Foretravel Motorhomes earlier than 2003, the following customer options apply. If a customer elects to use TranSynd Fluid to obtain the extended service interval, the following applies:
(1) Make the initial change to TranSynd and the Gold Series filter.
(2) Change the TranSynd and filters at 12,000 miles or 6 months. (3) After the second change, the intervals will be as listed for TranSynd users, or 75,000 miles or 36 months, whichever occurs first.
The initial main filter change will be required at 5,000 miles. The main filter can be identified having "MAIN" embossed on the filter cover. The main filter will be located on the oppo- site side of the transmission from the drain plug. The amount of fluid collected from the re- moval of this filter should be measured and that amount should be reinstalled in the transmission. This will complete the initial service procedure for the 2003 Model.
Part Numbers:
Main filter-29540496 (initial change with TranSynd only)
Full filter kit-29540494 (All changes other than initial with TranSynd)
TranSynd-27101CTCS (1Gallon Container)
Here is a excellent Allison Corp document on Transmission maintenance:
http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=155&DownloadID=5&Preview=1 (http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=155&DownloadID=5&Preview=1)
Here is an excerpt:
Initial Transmission Filter Change Schedule (Production/ReTran®)
*3000 and 4000 Product Families Transmissions—Main Filter 5000 miles (8000 km)/200 hours
*3000 and 4000 Product Families Transmission ReTran®—Main Filter 5000 miles (8000 km)/200 hours
* Not required beginning with S/N 6510670912, 6610205144, 6520067342, 6620002521, and 9320005689,
9370006284, 9420006679, 9470005459
Brett Wolfe
It's time to change the fluid in my transmission on my 96 U270, past due time wise by a few months. I don't want to mess it up, so I've been reading all I can. The more I read the more confused I became, so I called Allison to get the facts. The old Foretravel 25,000 mile 18 month with Dexron II, III, IV is history, since Allison no longer recommends Dexron. Apparently Dexron IV is the only Dexron product now being made. Most of you may already know this, which I'm just now learning. Slow on the draw, I guess. Apparently we are all supposed to switch to TranSynd or some other type of TES 295 fluid if you can find it. Allison did say that there are 6 or 7 products that meet the TES 295 requirement, and since my transmission is no longer under warranty, I could put anything in it that I wanted too. Of course I am not going to use something that is not recommended. Gold filters are no longer being made only the high capacity. Any transmission with a retarder is considered SEVERE vocation which except for 100% Transynd requires the shortest change interval. That's in the fine print and I had incorrectly assumed that since we aren't like a city bus doing stop and go driving RV's would be General vocation. Power flush is not recommended by Allison, but I found several references that some Allison certified shops are doing it with TranSynd. Now that I know which filter kit I need, I am trying to find out if I need a loan to do the job. If I switch to TranSynd I will get to do it again in 6 mo. Is there any way to tell what fluid is in my transmission? I always thought it was Dexron III, but all I really know is that it is red. Lazydays changed the engine oil, generator oil, transmission fluid, differential, filters, and lubed chassis in 2008 for less than $800, so doubt if I got TranSynd.
Jerry Whiteaker
96 U270
Interesting, When I called the local DDA distributor, about 5 k miles after MOT changed mine to the Transynd fluid, I asked for the filter specified and was told that requirement had been recended, not longer applies. Next change at the 75k point.
So I forgot it
Would be nice to know the CURRENT facts, confusion as usual.
Dave
The INITIAL/5,000 mile filter change has been eliminated (exact serial number on Allison's site I posted above).
Please refer to the Allison site I posted above for change intervals-- always better to take the manufacturer's advice than our opinion.
BUT, I will make one point: let's face it, if you have the Allison 3000 with an ISL 400 HP AND retarder, you are pushing it. Were it mine, I would continue to monitor transmission fluid color and smell, with the factory recommended interval the absolute longest interval. Driving a lot in mountains/using the retarder frequently will suggest more frequent filter and fluid changes.
Brett
Jerry: I had mine changed by Allison in Grand Rapids, MI for $600 which of course included the capacity of the retarder and the retarder cooler. The pricing I got was for a semi-truck/bus/other and the majority of them do not have the retarder and nobody at Allison that I dealt with seemed to care that MY capacity was much larger. It was a flat price for the service. The staff there at Allison were adamant that the power flush was the best way to go. I sure hope they were right. So far so good, pulling my trailer. I wonder, is there a test for TranSynd like there is for engine oil? Maybe I should get it tested. They said that all I needed to do was to change the Gold Filters at 75,000 miles and top off the oil. I would then be good for another 75K.
Regards,
JON TWORK KB8RSA
If one does not use the retarder a lot, why does just having a retarder require shortest change interval? Do you think the transmission will break? I think you are a few months beyond the Allison warranty.
Since Transynd is compatible with Dextron, why does switching to Transynd, even without the benefit of power flush require another fluid change at a sooner interval than recommended for Dextron? Are you in a hurry to have a higher percentage of Transynd? Even the next change will not give you 100% Transynd.
Since most of fluid is Transynd with the first switch over to Transynd, why not extend the change interval to 3 years or so? And after the next fluid change at 3 years, one could wait for 4-5 years to change fluid again?
By the way, we follow the above timelines. Company lawyers get upset if Allison officially offers any advice that counters their fine print.
Barry,
There has never been an Allison document that says part Dexron part Transynd has a shorter change interval than Dexron.
A mix of the two DOES have the same change interval as Dexron. If you started with Dexron, indeed it DOES take two changes before you qualify for the Transynd change interval.
Brett
Barry, I am just going by what is in the Allison brochure with a 2010 date that Brett Wolfe listed in one of the above replies. Read what it says especially about the retarder in the small print. Allison doesn't like Dexron now. If I do decide to get a power flush with Transynd, I would wait 3 yrs and change it. Even with the power flush its probably not going to be 100% Transynd. Done the Allison recommended way after 2 changes it would not be 100%, but Allison considers it as 100%. There is also something weird with the time for the fluid and filters with 100% TES 295; the fluid is good for 48 mo and the filters for 36 mo. Does not make sense to me to change filters 12 mo before changing the fluid. And then would the filters be changed again with the fluid? D If you plan on driving 150k miles (severe vocation due to retarder) in 48 mo then you would change the filters at 75K in the middle of the cycle. I think the time will get 90% of us before miles will. I'm going to use the retarder. I might buy some other brand of fluid if it is labeled as TES 295 and is significantly lower in price.
Brett, I agree with you about following the manufacturers recommendations, and driving in the mountains. I just slipped up this time. There is only 13K on the fluid and I have 300 hp. I do check the color and smell, and it seems like new. With part Dexron part Transynd change at 6 mo severe vocation, I wasn't suggesting anything less. Wish it was longer, but.
Jerry Whiteaker
96 U270
I can't speak to the durability of the 3060 or 3000 series with a retarder.
But the 4060 in my 95 U320 w/o a retarder has run for 15 years and 130K miles on good old fashioned Dexron and it appears quite happy with it. I could get the book out but I'm pretty certain the HD4060 is running under 50% loaded at 18 tons - especially considering it was the tranny of choice for the Prevost crowd.
My coach had NOT received the best of care prior to me buying it. It will get new tranny fluid this year, 'just because'...
Brett,
I was commenting on "If I switch to TranSynd I will get to do it again in 6 mo". Which I assumed meant that since Transynd is not 100% after first change, another change is needed in 6 months to get to appox 100%.
Why not wait until some change point between Dextron and Transynd or at least to Dextron time period, which is 2 years or more?
Doesn't Allison recommend changing sooner than 2 years after doing the first switch to Transynd?
Barry
I made a mistake in my last post I said "60" instead of "6" mo. I went back and changed it. Dave Head, My 96 coach hasn't had any problems either with Dexron. Apparently, there is something different about the latest version of Dexron that Allison does not like, since they no longer recommend it. I hope it is not just a blatant attempt to sell a more profitable product. I don't doubt that Transynd is a better fluid, and for someone who is really racking up the miles like a truck the switch would be worth it. For me, I doubt if the extra cost is justified. Barry, I don't understand either why one could not run a mixture for longer than 6 mo except that sometimes a mixture does not perform like the parts by themselves. Allison certainly should know more about this than us, but it could be a lawyer thing. Anyway a couple of expensive fluid changes is still a lot cheaper than a transmission repair.
Jerry Whiteaker
96 U270
I'm in the process of replacing the MD 3060R transmission fluid. Right now I am just letting it drain. It was fairly easy to get out the 19 qts. that it is normal for a refill, just remove the drain plug and the filters. I let it drain overnight and got another qt. Since I'm not going anywhere, I'm just going to let it drain until it stops. Who knows maybe everything that is in the torque converter will eventually drain down to the sump. Initial fill is 29 qts. plus 5 or 6 more for cooler, retarder, accumulator, and hoses. I will be putting in a synthetic fluid, Exxon-Mobil Delvac with Allison approved TES 259 on the container. About $10/gal less than Transynd from the local Allison repair shop. I did find a BP TES 259 fluid at a bulk oil dealer, almost as much as Transynd and he only had it 5 gallon containers. I put the drain plug and filter covers back in place to keep out dirt and insects. Will keep you posted.
Jerry Whiteaker
96 U270
My extended drain interval, did not yield any more fluid to speak of after the first day. When full the MD 3060R should have about 32 qts or more in the system (29 in the transmission and the remainder in the hoses, cooler and retarder accumulator. Allison or whoever was correct about not being able to drain the torque converter. The extra qt I removed was probably just fluid that took a long time to drain off the internal gearing. I'm not sure what I will do about the next drain interval. According to Allison literature it should happen in 6 mo. If I don't use the retarder can I go 12 mo? Can I wait 18 mo according to my owners manual when it was filled with Dexron. Does anyone know if Foretravel ever recommended a shorter interval, or mentioned anything about severe vocation when Dexron was still being used? Exactly when did Allison come out with the latest guidelines on when to change fluid? I did find one Allison footnote that the change intervals could be more or less according to conditions.
Jerry Whiteaker
96 U270
You worried about violating your warrenty?
No, I know I have no warranty. I'm just a little bit P O'd that when I talk to an Allison tech rep that he can not give me a good answer as to why a fluid that was formally good for 18 mo is now only good for 6 mo, and if it is mixed with a fluid that is good for 48 mo at ratio of 5 gal of 48 mo to 3 gal of 18 mo that it still is only good for 6 mo. Seems like someone could be ripping someone off, especially since Castrol Transynd was the only Allison approved synthetic ATF on the market for several years. Maybe I shouldn't feel that way, I'm sure Transynd is a better ATF than Dexron. Maybe Allison is looking out for our best interest, but why can't they give a good explanation of why they did it? Personally, I don't enjoy spending a few hundred dollars, if it's not necessary.
I have to say..I'm not at all clear on what ATF Allison is recommending. Can someone tell me why Dexron, which I've used exclusively, is no longer a qualified fluid for my 13 year old transmission? Or, is it that the latest iteration of Dexron has something that Allison considers lacking?
Am I to understand that the only ATF recommended by Allison is a long life fluid?
There is no spec from Allison for a Dexron type fluid anymore?
I found the below which specs only Transynd (TES-295) or a TES-389 which I assume is not synthetic.
http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadFile?Dir=publications/pubs&FileToGet=SA5613EN.pdf (http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadFile?Dir=publications/pubs&FileToGet=SA5613EN.pdf)
The service interval for the TES-389 is quite short according to the spec sheet above. If Dexron III meets the TES-389 I am assuming it's okay to continue to use thi product. Or NOT?
This publication from Allison may amplify their specs for the approved fluids:
http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=155&DownloadID=5&Preview=1 (http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=155&DownloadID=5&Preview=1)
If the spec for Dexron hasn't changed, then I see nothing wrong with it. If the newer fluids are manufactured to a higher spec, all well and good.
My transmission is a MT647 which is NOT listed in any of the updated Allison literature, so I guess I can stick with Dexron. I, too, cannot understand how they could delist a previously approved fluid since I'm sure the original specifications have not changed.
I think the problem is, which DEXRON are you talking about. Dexron VI is backward compatible with applications calling for DEXRON of any type. But Dexron III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions. Not only is it not compatible, but it is no longer licensed and has not been since 2006. If you buy something that is labeled Dexron III, it not regulated by GM in anyway! So unless you are using DEXRON VI, you have not idea what you are using because it does not exist.
Oh, I have a MT643 and the original owner changed it over to Transynd. And I am sticking to Transynd because I have heard that once one is changed over, you should keep it that way. And I for one do not like the refine of Transynd, Castrol. Nothing wrong with their products, in fact I consider them to be excellent. Just don't like their business ethics.
I think it a matter of interpretation and asking the right question.
Allison is probably saying that since you are choosing to change to Transynd, in order to get the full benefit of Transynd as soon as possible, you should change it again at 6 months. Cost to you is not in the equation and should not be in this case. But if you are happy with a partial benefit of Transynd and a slower transition to full Transynd, use your own judgment on when you should change again.
They just do not a company answer for your question. Their advice is never based on cost to you.
I agree with Barry. Having 90% mixture of Transynd and 10% standard ATF is supposedly better than 100% non-Transynd.
I might add that looking at the Allison service ratings and intervals I've posted, there appears to be a relationship between ave. speed of the vehicle in service. I believe (I may be wrong) that a great percentage of the Allison automatics in use today are in the transit bus and trash pick-up service. The average speed of these vehicles is significantly lower than our average RV and we idle a lot less. My average speed based on tach hour meter since coach ownership is 39.8 MPH. A transit bus probaly averages 5 to 8 MPH based on engine run time.
I only drive about 5,000 miles per year and average about 140 hours engine run time per year. I change the ATF every two years, and am likely to continue that practice...Retarder and all.
Strange,- I had our tranny serviced by MOT in March 09 and they apparently used Dex lll according to the work sheet. Is the Dex Vl recommendation that new??
Had my fluid changed at Allison service center when I had the turbine speed sensor replaced last May. The invoice just shows DEX-5GAL @ $85.88 and DEX-QT quantity 4 @ $4.58 each so I'm not sure what they used but surely the Allsion certified facility would know what to use. Incidentally, the sensor replacement solved my shifting problems (not wanting to come out of 1st gear until completely warmed up). They really didn't push the Transynd for my transmission saying the normal fluid changed regularly was just fine and according to the computer everything was "in the green" whatever that means.
I would say you got sob 5 gallons Dexron and 4 quarts of the same. That was what they wanted to give me until they found out the previous owner had changed to Transynd. Never go back to Dexron if transmission was changed to Transynd from what I've heard.
Yes...I learned that here on this forum and so I asked the Allison folks if they could tell the difference when they recommended the plain old transmission fluid. They said that they could tell and that I had did not currently have transynd so I stuck with the regular fluid.
Dwayne,
You CAN switch to Transynd if you want at the next filter/fluid change.
Many of us with MD3060's have made that switch.
Brett Wolfe