Our house batteries are original (2002 or 2003) and with a full charge they dropped to 11.5 volts after about one hour of watching tv with dvr, Bose. and no other loads except parasitic. I'm pretty convinced they need to be replaced? Given that kind of load shouldn't three 8d's last a day or more?
It was a good test of the generator auto start though. After a few minutes at 11.5 volts the generator started right up.
The Prosine 2.5 seems to be working properly; charging somewhere between 13.75 and 14.25 volts according to the standard display.
Someone in the last month or two mentioned purchasing these batteries online. I would like some more information/specifics on this. We will be in Oregon in another couple weeks and would like to replace them there.
Thanks,
Michelle, those batteries are real heavy. Then you have the disposal of the
old batteries issue. I am certain someone else will chime in on this topic.
Let me just say that the batteries are critical if you plan to boon dock.
Not so if you're going to be driving and plugging in to shore power.
Dick,
In our '03 U320 we also have 3 8D's, each of which weighs around 150+ pounds. I want to say each is around 225 A-H, so they should be lasting longer than a few hours.
We had to have ours original ones replaced a couple of years ago, due to unfortunate power issues at the place we'd been storing the coach (long story). Ours weren't holding a charge like they should have after many instances of another coach tripping the shared breaker. When Steve opened up the compartment to check the house batteries, one was hissing. A sure sign of trouble.
While we try to do any maintenance and repair that we can ourselves, those batteries are not one we wanted to tackle, for the same reasons Peter mentioned - weight and disposal, PLUS we opted to go with AGM when we replaced them. It turns out the new batteries were ever so slightly larger than the originals, and the battery tray had to be modified. All of this was done by the battery installer, and IIRC their pricing really wasn't that much more than buying the batteries ourselves, anyway.
Michelle
If you are dealing with size 8d batteries I strong suggest you have someone do the installation. Our 8d batteries each weigh 161 pound -- EACH.
The location of house batteries seems to vary in location year by year. Ours are arranged so that two are side by side and the third one is on a tray over the other two. IMHO Foretravel really screwed up on this design. It is nearly impossible for one person to remove that battery. And that is why we chose a battery dealer. We used to live near an Interstate Battery dealer who had a big warehouse in back of his store and yet he did not have our size in stock and had to special order them. But that was O.K because we got really fresh battereis. He also ordered side mount terminals which allowed them to do a really neat install on the batteries.
Here is aphoto.
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Dick. You are about due. I replaced the house (and the chassis) batteries on my 2003 this past fall. My coach was built in November 02.
I agree, there is no way I could manage batteries this heavy. George I think the location of our batteries must be similar to yours. In the back of the 2nd bay on the passenger side, face aft and remove a panel, and one above two. I think it must be a 2 man job in a space big enough for only one.
Did you both install AGM's instead of Gel's? Are the originals Gel? Why AGM's?
Thanks.
Our original house batteries were gels and we went to AGM's when we got the new ones. We went back and forth but the AGMs were slightly less expensive and offered slightly higher battery capacity. The AGMs are also supposed to much more robust in terms of vibration and temperature extremes.
Michelle
Before you replace the batteries, try cleaning all of the terminals and connections and check for tight connection. You should do that when you replace the batteries anyway. Maybe the connections are corroded and you might be only on one battery with the others having bad connections. (they might not be recharging).
Get a multimeter and check the batteries individually.
I went with AGM batteries after reading a lot of pros and cons about different types of batteries. They seemed to be a good choice and after reading a few of the answers here, I am glad I went with AGMs.
FWIW -- the Interstate Battery dealer we went to actually used one of their fork lift trucks to help get the new batteries into place. We have a James Stallings paint job and they did not even disturb the dust on the paint.
Steve, We have the same battery configuration as you in that hidden compartment.
When you replaced yours with AGM's, did the 3 batterys fit in the rack without any modification as George had to do?
I dry camp alot & have been fighting an issue for some time.
The issue is, when it is 100 plus outside as it has been the last few summers,
it takes 10 - 12 hours to charge my batteries that may only be at 50 - 60 %.
I tried everything I could think of to find out the cause.
Finally I disconnected the Battery Temp sensor & the charge rate zoomed up to what I thought it should have been.
Now it charges in a few hours.
I thought maybe the temp sensor was bad, but after some evaluation I found the battery compartment which does not get much air flow was getting up to 90 - 100 degrees.
So the battery charger was doing what it is supposed to do and slowing the charge rate down to compensate for the batteries being so hot.
I have been experimenting with ways to get air flow in that compartment , including an inline blower attached to the vent coming out of that compartment but nothing seems to work.
So after talking to lifeline at the FMCA, they said the AGM batteries can take those temperatures much better and should alleviate my problem. Since they are located not to far from me I was going to switch to them if I dont have to modify the battery rack.
Barry - Steve's arguing with the e-mail posting project at the moment (after wrestling the washer/dryer, some cracked plumbing, and a few other fun things today) and asked me to answer.
We did need to have our battery rack modified when we swapped to AGMs. We actually were very fortunate - the RV service place that did our battery replacement (Danny's RV here in Denton, TX) did so on their time and their dime after discovering that the batteries were slightly larger than the original gel cells.
Michelle
Do you know how much modification was needed?
Are the AGM's much longer or wider or both?
Did they have to remove the rack & rebuild it?
As usual ,it is not going to be as easy as just a swap out. :(
Unfortunately I don't think Lifeline will do any modifications to the rack.
They will swap the batteries for me but will not connect them.
Barry,
As far as I know, the tray was not modified in anyway to get the new AGM batteries in place. But I have a 2000 U320 and your tray might be sized differently. If you want, I will be glad to measure the Interstate batteries we have. Just let me know.
Coincidentally, I did not know about the AGMs doing a better job of handling high ambinent temperatures. I keep learning new stuff here.
The measurements would help.
Here is some info on the Battery temperature charging compensation.
http://beamalarm.com/Documents/temperature_compensated_battery_charging.html (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/temperature_compensated_battery_charging.html)
Barry, That is an interesting article on temperature compensated charging; particularly the note about not exposing any battery to temperatures above 88 deg. F for any length of time. And you found your batteries at 90 to 100...
MK Battery (www.mkbattery.com (http://www.mkbattery.com) , 800 372-9253) makes both Gel & AGM 8D batteries and both measure 20.75"x11"x10". They have a Technical Manual that covers both types of batteries (attached).
Do you know if the factory installed MK Batteries originally?
Wow!! That is a mouthful!!
Or is that a formula that I missed in my electrical troubnleshooting class?
Dick, in 2005 I replaced the OEM gel coach batteries (2) with Deka and am very satisfied. And now that I know MK makes the same size in AGM's, in another 4 years I'll be switching to AGM technology. (I believe that Deka makes the batteries for MK?)
Barry:
19 and 3/8 inches long
8 and 7/8 inches high
10 and 1/2 inches wide
Thanks George
Peter, were your original gel coach batteries from MK? I don't know about
mine in our '03 U320. I am hoping they are MK, because then I know I could
drop in new gels or agms from MK without having to modify the battery
holders. Dick
The 2003 coaches had MK. I have them in mine also.
I bought my 1997 coach with MK gels in 2003 with a BO code (Feb 2000) then replaced in 2005 with Deka same specifications as the MK's. The MK's were 5 years old but seemed to have been mistreated. The Deka's are now 5 years old and going strong. Someone (I can't remember) had told me that MK & Deka's are manufacured by the same outfit. In fact Deka also has the AGM technology as well, coincidentally.
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/ (http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/)
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0215.pdf (http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0215.pdf)
Peter, you are right. East Penn Manufacturing labels their batteries with their "house" label Deka and with MK. I talked to East Penn this morning.
I also called the Deka East Penn distribution center in Portland, OR (we are heading there). They will sell retail, but do not do installations. Their prices:
8A8D(M) List $703 Sell for $472 ('M' is a marine battery with both standard auto posts & stud w/ nut. Otherwise you get the standard auto post. Prices are the same either way)
8G8D List $798 Sell for $534
If you all have found better pricing, I would like to know what you found.
I haven't been shopping for these lately. But, I can share what I paid for them in 2005. $435 ea. before taxes for the 8D's Gel.
Deep cycle AGM batteries if you are going to boondock. Get the biggest that will fit.
I just replaced my 9 year old 8d's with Deka Seamate AGM's 255 amp hour, cost $411.00 each plus tax with no disposal fee.
Bill W.
I wonder if Gels would be a better choice if you are not planning to do extended boondocking? I know from Barry's post earlier that AGM's will charge faster than Gels when the batteries are hot and thus cut down on the generator time to recharge.
We will probably just do an overnight occasionally and a few days rarely of boondocking. The Deka Gels have a 12 month free replacement and 60 month pro-rated warranty, while the AGMs have 12/36 month warranty. I think the difference is explained by the shorter cycle life of AGMs.
How's the cost benefit analysis on the two types? Is there a significant savings? If gels can give you 10 years of performace vs. 6 for the AGM's.
Being a newby to this forum I'm a little hesitant to make any waves.
BUT, I've been using solar charging and golf cart batteries for more than 10 years now and have found that golf cart batteries give the greatest bang for the buck in motorhome or residential use.
I recently replaced my 8D starting battery (30 days ago) AND replaced the 2- 8D house batteries with 6 ea- 6v golf cart batteries ten days ago. The 6 golf cart batteries fit exactly where the 2-8D's were with no modifications to the original battery box.
The golf cart batteries are series parallel wired to give 675 AH @ 12 volts versus 450AH for the 2-8D's.
Here is something to consider, the 8D starting battery was purchased @ the Interstate Distributor in Tucson for $389.50 out the door. No install.
After driving to VA, the trip dictated house battery replacement. After shopping and calling every outlet in the Richmond area, the price at SAM'S was by far the best and they also had the freshest batteries(<than 30 days old). The batteries are labeled "ENERGIZER",w/ the Bunnie running. Made in PA by the same manufacturer that makes the Interstate.
SAM'S price for the 8D is $134.55 + tax and the golf cart batteries are $74.79 + tax each.
So, $600.00 out the door WILL replace all the batteries & increase the house battery capacity for those that dry camp/ boondock or would like to. Five cables will have to be purchased or fabricated IF the golf cart battery route is what is chosen.
If additional info is desired PM me with ?'s.
John
John,
Welcome to the ForeForum.
If the question is, "What is the least expensive quality deep cycle battery per amp-hr?" most would agree that 6 VDC golf cart batteries are the answer.
If the question is" What is the best deep cycle battery (independent of price)?" the answer shifts to AGM batteries.
No conflict with either statement, just different questions.
Brett Wolfe
Brett,
No argument with that!
In my other coach, the golf cart batteries are going on 8 years old and still check as new according to the specific gravity, voltage and duration when in use. Having a really good charging and maintenance system makes a world of difference in battery life and reliability.
John
Brett, et al; I am about to replace all three of my house batteries. I had decided on 8g8d gels, but you and a others have indicated a preference for the 8a8d absorded glass mats.
Barry B posted that AGM's will charge faster in high temperature conditions and thus will require less generator run time to recharge.
What are other advantages of the AGM's?
It looks like FT has changed to AGM's in their new coaches.
East Penn's Technical Manual does a pretty good job of listing advantages and disadvantages of both and it looks to me like the higher cycle life would justify the higher initial cost of Gels.
I'd like to hear opinions on this.
Thanks, Dick
I had 18 golf cart batteries on my boat for 10 years. One downside is that when they charge, they gas, even if you have the charge specs right. When they charge and they put out gas, you need to stay on top of the water levels to keep the plates covered.
I put "hydro-cap on the batteries (a florida company) which has a catalyst in it that converts the gas back to water. Saved the day for us, but it adds an expense to the golf cart batteries.
Went to AGM's in the coach because of the bouncing.
Lead Acid wet cells should be equalized occasionally, check with the inverter to see how it is done.
Mike Baldacchino
'97 40' U320 CAI
Purple Haze
Bump.
Ok y'all. I would really like to know why you favor AGM's over Gel's.
Thanks, Dick