Title: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Stoltz on June 11, 2010, 11:49:59 am
Post by: George Stoltz on June 11, 2010, 11:49:59 am
The power line monitor in our coach is operating erratically by giving us voltage readings that are far above normal -- between 139 and 149. Fortunately, our Progressive Industries voltage monitor gives us normal voltage readings as does a separate plug in monitor I keep on hand.
I have two choices:
1) Ignore it (but it bugs me to see these high numbers)
2) Find a replacement without having to pay the inflated factory price.
I am leaning toward #2. Does any one have any suggestions where I can find a replacement?
I have two choices:
1) Ignore it (but it bugs me to see these high numbers)
2) Find a replacement without having to pay the inflated factory price.
I am leaning toward #2. Does any one have any suggestions where I can find a replacement?
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Hatfield on June 11, 2010, 01:39:54 pm
Post by: George Hatfield on June 11, 2010, 01:39:54 pm
George.... my FT voltage panel also seems to read high, but not as high as yours. Plus some of the LEDs are out. If you do find a replacement, let me know since I'd like replace it. When we bought our coach at FOT we were told that replacements were not available.
George H
George H
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Stoltz on June 11, 2010, 01:51:09 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on June 11, 2010, 01:51:09 pm
Will do.
George & Sandy & Trixie
Lost in America in a
40' Foretravel aka "Moose"
Follow our adventures at
http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/ (http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/)
George & Sandy & Trixie
Lost in America in a
40' Foretravel aka "Moose"
Follow our adventures at
http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/ (http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/)
Quote
George.... my FT voltage panel also seems to read high, but not as high as yours. Plus some of the LEDs are out. If you do find a replacement, let me know since I'd like replace it. When we bought our coach at FOT we were told that replacements were not available.
George H
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 12, 2010, 05:22:31 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 12, 2010, 05:22:31 pm
When my coach was about a year old, the green polarity testing bulbs had grown so dim it was really hard to see them. Foretravel replaced my whole monitor on warranty. but admonished that "they all do that". To prevent a recurrence, I replaced the bulbs' series resistors with ones 10 times the original resistance. This made the bulbs somewhat dimmer, but still very useable. Now about 8 years later, they still work fine.
Also, the voltage readings were close, but not very accurate. I found trimpots on each half of the monitor that adjusted the voltage readings. I set them as closely as I could to a reading from a good DVM.
If your readings have changed a lot, there probably is a reason, however there is a good chance you can readjust the meters back to the correct readings using these trimpots. It's worth a try. If the readings still keep changing, then you could look for a new unit, or possibly just adjusting them would make the unit workable until you can find a replacement.
If you decide to do this adjusting, just plug in one side of the meter at a time, and be very carefull, as there is 120 volts all around where you are working.
Dick
Also, the voltage readings were close, but not very accurate. I found trimpots on each half of the monitor that adjusted the voltage readings. I set them as closely as I could to a reading from a good DVM.
If your readings have changed a lot, there probably is a reason, however there is a good chance you can readjust the meters back to the correct readings using these trimpots. It's worth a try. If the readings still keep changing, then you could look for a new unit, or possibly just adjusting them would make the unit workable until you can find a replacement.
If you decide to do this adjusting, just plug in one side of the meter at a time, and be very carefull, as there is 120 volts all around where you are working.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Stoltz on June 12, 2010, 11:21:47 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on June 12, 2010, 11:21:47 pm
Dick,
Thanks for a great answer. I will look at this tomorrow. Are the trim pots located on the back of the monitor?
Also, I am curious as to why you installed resitors that made lights dimmer? Did you mean to say brighter?
Thanks for a great answer. I will look at this tomorrow. Are the trim pots located on the back of the monitor?
Also, I am curious as to why you installed resitors that made lights dimmer? Did you mean to say brighter?
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 13, 2010, 01:39:29 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 13, 2010, 01:39:29 pm
George,
As I recall, the pots are on the circuit board that is exposed when you remove the electrical box from the rear of the monitor.
And no, I did mean increase the resistors to dim the bulbs. The original bulbs wore out in less than two years due to being overdriven (my theory anyway). When I received a brand new unit I decreased the current significantly to allow a longer bulb life. It seems to have worked, as they are still about as bright 8 years later as they were when new.
Dick
As I recall, the pots are on the circuit board that is exposed when you remove the electrical box from the rear of the monitor.
And no, I did mean increase the resistors to dim the bulbs. The original bulbs wore out in less than two years due to being overdriven (my theory anyway). When I received a brand new unit I decreased the current significantly to allow a longer bulb life. It seems to have worked, as they are still about as bright 8 years later as they were when new.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Hatfield on June 13, 2010, 07:37:04 pm
Post by: George Hatfield on June 13, 2010, 07:37:04 pm
Dick... can the LEDs be replaced? If not, do you know of a source of these boards? All but one of my LEDs are out.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 13, 2010, 07:55:32 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 13, 2010, 07:55:32 pm
George,
These are not LED's, they are a neon bulb that apparently has a phosphor in it to glow green. I am sure they would be replaceable if you can find them. I suspect that you could, if nothing else, get bulbs from a power line tester and put them in.
I have no idea where you would ever find a replacement board.
Good luck,
Dick
These are not LED's, they are a neon bulb that apparently has a phosphor in it to glow green. I am sure they would be replaceable if you can find them. I suspect that you could, if nothing else, get bulbs from a power line tester and put them in.
I have no idea where you would ever find a replacement board.
Good luck,
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Stoltz on June 13, 2010, 08:50:25 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on June 13, 2010, 08:50:25 pm
Bumbling around on Google and I came up with this marine device.
Not sure it would work for a motorhome, but thought I'd post it here
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-AC-Power-Watt-Meter-V-P-Monitor-Boat-RV-Ship-/350243621075 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-AC-Power-Watt-Meter-V-P-Monitor-Boat-RV-Ship-/350243621075)
Not sure it would work for a motorhome, but thought I'd post it here
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-AC-Power-Watt-Meter-V-P-Monitor-Boat-RV-Ship-/350243621075 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-AC-Power-Watt-Meter-V-P-Monitor-Boat-RV-Ship-/350243621075)
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Virginia on June 13, 2010, 11:55:23 pm
Post by: Virginia on June 13, 2010, 11:55:23 pm
George -
Earlier I noticed only line 2 having lights and line 1 struggling to glow, now I've only one tiny flicker on my monitor tonight, if I hold a light to it can see flickering - after reading all this post I shutter to think this is my first item to go and needing replacing -
The readout is 124 on both lines
I'll be watching this post to see if ya find any replacement & I'll check to see if my ever so expensive "warranty" for coach will cover this -
Ah welcome to the life of owning a dearly loved coach :D
Virginia and Jim
Earlier I noticed only line 2 having lights and line 1 struggling to glow, now I've only one tiny flicker on my monitor tonight, if I hold a light to it can see flickering - after reading all this post I shutter to think this is my first item to go and needing replacing -
The readout is 124 on both lines
I'll be watching this post to see if ya find any replacement & I'll check to see if my ever so expensive "warranty" for coach will cover this -
Ah welcome to the life of owning a dearly loved coach :D
Virginia and Jim
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 14, 2010, 11:40:40 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 14, 2010, 11:40:40 pm
George,
I have done a lot of searching on the Internet looking for a suitable replacement bulb for the line monitors. It appears that what we want for an exact replacement is an ne-2g bulb. I found these offered by several Chinese distributors with a minimum order of 10,000 pieces - a little too many for me! It may be that an appliance repair outfit would have some, as they are used as pilot lights for a number of small appliances.
One source said that the Radio Shack Green Neon Lamp Cartridge pn 272-708 contains a similar bulb, but I cannot verify that. If you are satisfied with an orange color lamp, the ne-2 or ne-2h bulbs are much more available. These are what are in all the inexpensive line testors I have found.
The basic problem with all these bulbs is that they typically list an average life of 25,000 hours. This sounds like a lot, but if you keep your coach plugged in all the time, it is less than 3 years! Because of this I suggest making the series resistor as large as possible while giving an acceptable brightness of the bulb. The larger the resistor, the longer the life. I repaced mine with 10 times the resistance and they still look good after 8 years.
If mine ever go out again, I think I will replace them with green LED's, which would require adding as a minimum a series diode and changing the series resistor.
Dick
I have done a lot of searching on the Internet looking for a suitable replacement bulb for the line monitors. It appears that what we want for an exact replacement is an ne-2g bulb. I found these offered by several Chinese distributors with a minimum order of 10,000 pieces - a little too many for me! It may be that an appliance repair outfit would have some, as they are used as pilot lights for a number of small appliances.
One source said that the Radio Shack Green Neon Lamp Cartridge pn 272-708 contains a similar bulb, but I cannot verify that. If you are satisfied with an orange color lamp, the ne-2 or ne-2h bulbs are much more available. These are what are in all the inexpensive line testors I have found.
The basic problem with all these bulbs is that they typically list an average life of 25,000 hours. This sounds like a lot, but if you keep your coach plugged in all the time, it is less than 3 years! Because of this I suggest making the series resistor as large as possible while giving an acceptable brightness of the bulb. The larger the resistor, the longer the life. I repaced mine with 10 times the resistance and they still look good after 8 years.
If mine ever go out again, I think I will replace them with green LED's, which would require adding as a minimum a series diode and changing the series resistor.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: sgkarnes on June 15, 2010, 12:42:09 am
Post by: sgkarnes on June 15, 2010, 12:42:09 am
Dick;
If you get this repair figured out ,I will be your first customer,then there will be hundreds after. Good luck on your new bidness.
Gary 99 295
If you get this repair figured out ,I will be your first customer,then there will be hundreds after. Good luck on your new bidness.
Gary 99 295
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 11:44:06 am
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 11:44:06 am
Hi all,
I finally found a source for the ne-2g bulbs for our power line monitors! It is All Spectrum Electronics in Van Nuys, CA (www.allspectrum.com (http://www.allspectrum.com)). Under the topic of NEON LAMPS they list about 10 different size and lead length combinations of the green bulbs. I would have to open my monitor and measure the existing bulbs to verify the correct one. Prices run around $0.50 each, varying a little by exact bulb.
Dick
I finally found a source for the ne-2g bulbs for our power line monitors! It is All Spectrum Electronics in Van Nuys, CA (www.allspectrum.com (http://www.allspectrum.com)). Under the topic of NEON LAMPS they list about 10 different size and lead length combinations of the green bulbs. I would have to open my monitor and measure the existing bulbs to verify the correct one. Prices run around $0.50 each, varying a little by exact bulb.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 01:13:01 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 01:13:01 pm
OK, I went out and pulled my monitor out and opened it up.
The steps to open it are:
1 Remove front panel from electrical box - 4 screws
2 Unplug 2 cables from front panel to power supplies
3 Remove 4 hex nuts and remove board from front panel
The 4 NE-2G green bulbs are 6 x 12 mm. There are also 2 plain NE-2 (amber) 6 x 12 mm bulbs for the open ground indication. I didn't touch the circuit of these 2 bulbs as they are almost never (hopefully!) lit, and should last forever.
I replaced the original series resistors with 470k for long life and not too dim a bulb for the 4 green bulbs. Before you change these resistors, you should follow the traces and verify that your board layout is the same as mine (2000 U-270).
The attached photo shows these as well as the adjusting pots to calibrate your volt meters. Just be careful of the high voltage, both as for shorting anything while it is hot, and coming into personal contact with any high voltages!
Dick
The steps to open it are:
1 Remove front panel from electrical box - 4 screws
2 Unplug 2 cables from front panel to power supplies
3 Remove 4 hex nuts and remove board from front panel
The 4 NE-2G green bulbs are 6 x 12 mm. There are also 2 plain NE-2 (amber) 6 x 12 mm bulbs for the open ground indication. I didn't touch the circuit of these 2 bulbs as they are almost never (hopefully!) lit, and should last forever.
I replaced the original series resistors with 470k for long life and not too dim a bulb for the 4 green bulbs. Before you change these resistors, you should follow the traces and verify that your board layout is the same as mine (2000 U-270).
The attached photo shows these as well as the adjusting pots to calibrate your volt meters. Just be careful of the high voltage, both as for shorting anything while it is hot, and coming into personal contact with any high voltages!
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on June 15, 2010, 05:02:37 pm
Post by: steve on June 15, 2010, 05:02:37 pm
That is fantastic information, I just ordered my 4 bulbs! Thank you for sharing how to make the updates and where to get the bulbs (and the great picture)
I bet All Spectrum is going to wonder why they have this sudden rush on small green neon bulbs.
I bet All Spectrum is going to wonder why they have this sudden rush on small green neon bulbs.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Hatfield on June 15, 2010, 05:27:27 pm
Post by: George Hatfield on June 15, 2010, 05:27:27 pm
Question..... Do these bulbs just plug in or do they need to be soldered in place.
Thanks in advance.
George
Thanks in advance.
George
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 06:22:03 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on June 15, 2010, 06:22:03 pm
George
They are soldered into the PC board. It is fairly delicate work. If you do not have experience working on delicate electronics, you should find someone who has.
Dick
They are soldered into the PC board. It is fairly delicate work. If you do not have experience working on delicate electronics, you should find someone who has.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: sgkarnes on July 21, 2010, 10:46:17 pm
Post by: sgkarnes on July 21, 2010, 10:46:17 pm
Hello All;
I would like to give a huge round of applause to Mr. Dick Mason for all of the correct information needed for the repair of the power monitor board. I have never worked on a circuit board,but , with this information, I now have nice green lights in all of the correct places.
Approx. 90 minutes working time. Cost less than $10.
Again THANK YOU.
Gary
I would like to give a huge round of applause to Mr. Dick Mason for all of the correct information needed for the repair of the power monitor board. I have never worked on a circuit board,but , with this information, I now have nice green lights in all of the correct places.
Approx. 90 minutes working time. Cost less than $10.
Again THANK YOU.
Gary
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on July 22, 2010, 08:28:01 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on July 22, 2010, 08:28:01 pm
Hi Gary,
I'm glad I was able to help and that it all worked well for you!
Dick
I'm glad I was able to help and that it all worked well for you!
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on September 01, 2010, 06:49:50 pm
Post by: steve on September 01, 2010, 06:49:50 pm
Dick,
Count me as another satisfied customer ... Just finished updating my line monitor in our 2003 U320. The circuit board looks to be identical to the one you showed, it was also dated 1998. I posted some pictures of my update in the photo section. The only changes on my part were the use of 220K resistors and since I did not want to go back to radio shack I used .5 watt ones instead of the small .25 watt ones.
Count me as another satisfied customer ... Just finished updating my line monitor in our 2003 U320. The circuit board looks to be identical to the one you showed, it was also dated 1998. I posted some pictures of my update in the photo section. The only changes on my part were the use of 220K resistors and since I did not want to go back to radio shack I used .5 watt ones instead of the small .25 watt ones.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on September 01, 2010, 08:22:31 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on September 01, 2010, 08:22:31 pm
Steve,
I am glad it all worked out for you. As you said, the hardest part is removing the old components! Thanks for the update and the step by step pictures.
Dick
I am glad it all worked out for you. As you said, the hardest part is removing the old components! Thanks for the update and the step by step pictures.
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Fiddler on September 01, 2010, 08:41:39 pm
Post by: Fiddler on September 01, 2010, 08:41:39 pm
Great information Steve and Dick; didn't realize my Power Line monitor was supposed to have brightly visible green indicator lights as they have always been very dim and flickering ever since I've owned the coach.
BTW, I am ready to order the bulbs from Spectrum and the NE-2G 6x12mm lists a 30mm lead and a 60mm lead; which do I need to order?
Fiddler
01 U320
BTW, I am ready to order the bulbs from Spectrum and the NE-2G 6x12mm lists a 30mm lead and a 60mm lead; which do I need to order?
Fiddler
01 U320
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Bob McGee on September 01, 2010, 08:51:49 pm
Post by: Bob McGee on September 01, 2010, 08:51:49 pm
I also ordered some. 30mm is almost 1.2", more than enough for this application. You will end up clipping some off. As you can see from Steve's pictures, they do not stand off the board very far.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on September 01, 2010, 11:32:27 pm
Post by: steve on September 01, 2010, 11:32:27 pm
Quote
BTW, I am ready to order the bulbs from Spectrum and the NE-2G 6x12mm lists a 30mm lead and a 60mm lead; which do I need to order?
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Jim Frerichs on September 02, 2010, 12:12:02 am
Post by: Jim Frerichs on September 02, 2010, 12:12:02 am
Hi guys,
FYI, if you are going to order replacement bulbs the power monitor board be sure to look at the pictures again. Four neon bulbs are lit up, but there are 6 on the board.
Jim
FYI, if you are going to order replacement bulbs the power monitor board be sure to look at the pictures again. Four neon bulbs are lit up, but there are 6 on the board.
Jim
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dave Head on September 02, 2010, 12:21:59 am
Post by: Dave Head on September 02, 2010, 12:21:59 am
I believe it was noted the other two are amber and should never be lit up as they are reverse polarity - so they don't wear out...
Quote
On 9/2/2010 12:12 AM, Jim Frerichs wrote:
Hi guys,
FYI, if you are going to order replacement bulbs the power monitor board be sure to look at the pictures again. Four neon bulbs are lit up, but there are 6 on the board.
Jim
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Jim Frerichs on September 02, 2010, 12:45:15 am
Post by: Jim Frerichs on September 02, 2010, 12:45:15 am
Dave,
Oh oh, I missed that.
Thanks,.
Jim
Oh oh, I missed that.
Thanks,.
Jim
Quote
I believe it was noted the other two are amber and should never be lit up as they are reverse polarity - so they don't wear out...
FYI, if you are going to order replacement bulbs the power monitor board > be sure to look at the pictures again. Four neon bulbs are lit up, but
there are 6 on the board.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Michelle on September 02, 2010, 09:43:33 am
Post by: Michelle on September 02, 2010, 09:43:33 am
I believe it was noted the other two are amber and should never be lit up as they are reverse polarity - so they don't wear out...
Correct! We've only seen them light once, and that was coincident with a ground issue. For some reason I thought they were red, but they could be amber. It's been a while.
Michelle
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2010, 11:49:15 am
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2010, 11:49:15 am
Jim:
I think those are the amber bulbs (open ground) that Dick mentioned and are HOPEFULLY rarely lit up. They are most likely just fine in most of our coaches.
I think those are the amber bulbs (open ground) that Dick mentioned and are HOPEFULLY rarely lit up. They are most likely just fine in most of our coaches.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2010, 11:52:44 am
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2010, 11:52:44 am
Oops... and I didn't see page two of the posts so I missed the the fact that that Dave had already replied to the amber light issues.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on September 03, 2010, 11:37:25 pm
Post by: steve on September 03, 2010, 11:37:25 pm
Quote
I have also ordered the components plus a new solder pump/sucker.
A third hand is also a big help, I used a portable bench vise (with non-conductive foam on the jaws) to gently hold the circuit board while I lifted the components (with spring loaded tweezers) from the component side while applying heat to the terminals/pads (after I removed most of the old solder with the pump).
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: MAZ on September 07, 2010, 07:45:03 pm
Post by: MAZ on September 07, 2010, 07:45:03 pm
Thanks Dick for all the info. I received my bulbs today and installed them. Everything worked as you said. Thanks for the valuable information.
Regards, Mark
Regards, Mark
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Bill & Kim on September 07, 2010, 08:21:58 pm
Post by: Bill & Kim on September 07, 2010, 08:21:58 pm
I can't believe I missed this topic when it started back in June! In our coach, the polarity check lights flicker continuously with a dim, green light and the display for voltage check has an odd lighting effect that doesn't even resemble numbers anymore... Both MOT & FOT said the units aren't manufactured anymore and that there's really nothing to be done unless I would like to spring for a new inverter...
Good info! Thanks!
Good info! Thanks!
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on September 07, 2010, 10:53:16 pm
Post by: steve on September 07, 2010, 10:53:16 pm
Bill,
If your 7 digit leds are also going (assuming its not the power supply) those are very easy to replace as they are in sockets. I just reopened my case to get the PN of the LEDs and they are KingBright SA03-11GWA. Found them on digikey.com for $1.24ea (you will need 6 of them)
Steve
If your 7 digit leds are also going (assuming its not the power supply) those are very easy to replace as they are in sockets. I just reopened my case to get the PN of the LEDs and they are KingBright SA03-11GWA. Found them on digikey.com for $1.24ea (you will need 6 of them)
Steve
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Bill & Kim on September 08, 2010, 11:59:24 am
Post by: Bill & Kim on September 08, 2010, 11:59:24 am
Bill,
If your 7 digit leds are also going (assuming its not the power supply) those are very easy to replace as they are in sockets. I just reopened my case to get the PN of the LEDs and they are KingBright SA03-11GWA. Found them on digikey.com for $1.24ea (you will need 6 of them)
Steve
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on September 08, 2010, 09:25:51 pm
Post by: Dick Mason on September 08, 2010, 09:25:51 pm
Steve,
That's good information, Thanks
Dick
That's good information, Thanks
Dick
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: George Stoltz on September 22, 2010, 12:25:02 am
Post by: George Stoltz on September 22, 2010, 12:25:02 am
For the past 10 days or so our power line monitor has been giving us fairly accurate numbers. Go figure.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Brad on September 24, 2010, 09:17:28 am
Post by: Brad on September 24, 2010, 09:17:28 am
Quote
Great information Steve and Dick; didn't realize my Power Line monitor was supposed to have brightly visible green indicator lights as they have always been very dim and flickering ever since I've owned the coach.
Steve and Dick,
Thanks for your great information and pictures. I also thought the dim flickering green lights were normal, as it has been on every other Foretravel I looked to purchase. I guess if my budget was higher I might have looked at some newer models and found out otherwise.
Brad
2000 U320 4000
Title: Power Line Monitor Repair
Post by: George Hatfield on October 13, 2011, 11:34:43 pm
Post by: George Hatfield on October 13, 2011, 11:34:43 pm
This thread is over a year old, but I thought I would report that I finally got my power line monitor repaired using the procedure described here. Works great. I found an individual in Tucson with lots of soldering experience and she effected the repair for me. The repaired monitor is shown below.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dave Head on October 13, 2011, 11:48:29 pm
Post by: Dave Head on October 13, 2011, 11:48:29 pm
I offered to come up and do George's when he was in FL but he passed.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: wa_desert_rat on November 03, 2011, 10:04:55 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on November 03, 2011, 10:04:55 pm
Bumbling around on Google and I came up with this marine device.
Not sure it would work for a motorhome, but thought I'd post it here
cgi.ebay.com/Digital-AC-Power-Watt-Meter-V-P-Monitor-Boat-RV-Ship-/350243621075
This actually would work for a motorhome. Not only that it's priced reasonably. It would indicate voltage, current and power drawn by the circuits in the coach. It would not indicate polarity or poor grounding, however. And it needs an appropriate shunt which they say is "not provided"; and no immediate mention of where to get one. But it's pretty cool, otherwise.
Craig
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Jan & Richard on November 10, 2011, 04:26:07 pm
Post by: Jan & Richard on November 10, 2011, 04:26:07 pm
Dick,
I hate to flog a dead horse but I have a question about resistor sizing. You chose ten times the original 47K ohm which you said still gave acceptable bulb brightness. I have various packages of resistors on hand but the closest I have are 1meg ohm. Do you think these would work or should I go out and purchase another package of resistors closer to your 470K ohm resistors?
I hate to flog a dead horse but I have a question about resistor sizing. You chose ten times the original 47K ohm which you said still gave acceptable bulb brightness. I have various packages of resistors on hand but the closest I have are 1meg ohm. Do you think these would work or should I go out and purchase another package of resistors closer to your 470K ohm resistors?
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on November 10, 2011, 04:33:24 pm
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on November 10, 2011, 04:33:24 pm
Howdy Richard,
I know this wasn't directed towards me, but I just completed project this a week or so ago and I, like Steve, used 220k. It works great!!! Seems to me, the brightness of the Neon tubes, is just right..Time will tell.. I have some extra 220k 1/4watt resistors if you are interested..Just PM with an address and I'll drop in the mail.
Good Luck, Dave Abel
I know this wasn't directed towards me, but I just completed project this a week or so ago and I, like Steve, used 220k. It works great!!! Seems to me, the brightness of the Neon tubes, is just right..Time will tell.. I have some extra 220k 1/4watt resistors if you are interested..Just PM with an address and I'll drop in the mail.
Good Luck, Dave Abel
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Dick Mason on November 11, 2011, 09:59:07 am
Post by: Dick Mason on November 11, 2011, 09:59:07 am
Richard,
The value is not critical. I just chose the largest value which I felt gave me adequate brightness, using the theory that the larger the value I used, the longer the life of the bulbs. It has worked well for me. 220k should still give you a much longer life than the original 47k.
To see if you think 1 M resistors give you enough brightness, temporarily install one (without soldering) and very carefully plug it in to see. That's how I did it. As I recall, when the resistance got too high, the bulb started to flicker, but I don't remember what that resistance was.
Dick Mason
The value is not critical. I just chose the largest value which I felt gave me adequate brightness, using the theory that the larger the value I used, the longer the life of the bulbs. It has worked well for me. 220k should still give you a much longer life than the original 47k.
To see if you think 1 M resistors give you enough brightness, temporarily install one (without soldering) and very carefully plug it in to see. That's how I did it. As I recall, when the resistance got too high, the bulb started to flicker, but I don't remember what that resistance was.
Dick Mason
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Tom Lang on May 09, 2012, 02:18:19 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on May 09, 2012, 02:18:19 pm
I will be replacing the neon bulbs on my board this weekend if I find the time. I bought them from All Spectrum Electronics. My purchase was made online, but I noticed in-store pick-up was offered, and the store is in Van Nuys CA (next to the airport, they are also a pilots supply store). Easy to get to, andI spoke with the owner, Moses, and found out the shiping would have been very resonable. They also offer soldering irons and supplies if you are in need.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Frontier Camping on February 13, 2025, 04:58:47 pm
Post by: Frontier Camping on February 13, 2025, 04:58:47 pm
So here we are 14 years after the original topic was addressed and Spectrum is still in business and has white and amber bulbs. I didn't see any green ones but a plug in power line tester I have uses all amber LED's so I went with them. I just received them and will install shortly and let you all know the results.
I ordered a large sample of resisters that they didn't have in stock but they sent me upgraded ones with a nice hand written note on a 3X5 index card explaining the change.
Wow how often to you get something like that!
Tyson
I ordered a large sample of resisters that they didn't have in stock but they sent me upgraded ones with a nice hand written note on a 3X5 index card explaining the change.
Wow how often to you get something like that!
Tyson
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on February 13, 2025, 06:17:55 pm
Post by: steve on February 13, 2025, 06:17:55 pm
Awesome to know you can still get those bulbs. I had updated our 03 and the repair looked like new years later when we sold the coach.
Our 2000 already had the repair/update done. Whoever did that repair left the bulbs a bit too proud of the PWB surface causing the pointy tip of the bulbs to work their way through the Lexan cover. So be sure to seat the bulbs down as far as the existing ones so they don't, eventually, blister the plastic cover.
Our 2000 already had the repair/update done. Whoever did that repair left the bulbs a bit too proud of the PWB surface causing the pointy tip of the bulbs to work their way through the Lexan cover. So be sure to seat the bulbs down as far as the existing ones so they don't, eventually, blister the plastic cover.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: AdventureSofie on February 14, 2025, 04:51:25 pm
Post by: AdventureSofie on February 14, 2025, 04:51:25 pm
No one has tried LEDs yet? The newest ones I would think have the drivers integrated in a small footprint by now.
Maybe we don't need to reinvent the wheel on this one.
Maybe we don't need to reinvent the wheel on this one.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: steve on February 14, 2025, 09:05:37 pm
Post by: steve on February 14, 2025, 09:05:37 pm
No one has tried LEDs yet?
I think the challenge on changing over to LED's is that Neon bulbs are AC, so you would need to add a series diode, maybe even a FBR, and then a series resistor to set the current to the forward current of the LED you choose. In the end that may be more work then swamping out the NE-2 bulb and updating the existing resistor. I hope one of the EE's on the board will let us know the correct steps.
Another option is, that there is so much room in the existing box,, replacing the internals with a modern solution that uses the old "face" could be a fun project.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Mgreen5228 on February 19, 2025, 10:40:57 pm
Post by: Mgreen5228 on February 19, 2025, 10:40:57 pm
First I should say that until I found this thread and discovered that there were supposed to be some lights, I was perfectly happy. But once I noticed what should be there, I just had to do something.
I am trying some LEDs.
I found some on Amazon. Amazon.com: Gebildet 10pcs 6mm LED Metal Indicator Light 110V-220VAC... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PFMY6YQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1) They were under $10 for a package of 10 so I figured why not. When I got them they were too tall so I thought about taking the clear cover out of the faceplate and just have the bezel through the faceplate. if I left them as is, they would stand out about 1/2" so I decided to cut one down to see if I could end up the flush. In the process, I discovered that the LED could be removed from the housing and still was Green and that the color of the bezel was not all that made the light green.
you can see in the pictures, the process. Cut with a hack saw all the way around and you don't have to be too careful because the blue plastic protects the wires. the LED comes out of the blue plastic after the wire insulation is removed.
The diode is there and I tested the LED on the board with the non functioning neon bulbs and they worked.
Next step is the solder them, but I am afraid of cooking the diode because I don't have great skills soldering small stuff. I may try to find someone with skills.
I will let you know how it works out, but I have faith that these parts will work if the de-soldering and re-soldering is done skillfully.
It appears that the correct height will be just about at the diode to wire solder joint.
I am trying some LEDs.
I found some on Amazon. Amazon.com: Gebildet 10pcs 6mm LED Metal Indicator Light 110V-220VAC... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PFMY6YQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1) They were under $10 for a package of 10 so I figured why not. When I got them they were too tall so I thought about taking the clear cover out of the faceplate and just have the bezel through the faceplate. if I left them as is, they would stand out about 1/2" so I decided to cut one down to see if I could end up the flush. In the process, I discovered that the LED could be removed from the housing and still was Green and that the color of the bezel was not all that made the light green.
you can see in the pictures, the process. Cut with a hack saw all the way around and you don't have to be too careful because the blue plastic protects the wires. the LED comes out of the blue plastic after the wire insulation is removed.
The diode is there and I tested the LED on the board with the non functioning neon bulbs and they worked.
Next step is the solder them, but I am afraid of cooking the diode because I don't have great skills soldering small stuff. I may try to find someone with skills.
I will let you know how it works out, but I have faith that these parts will work if the de-soldering and re-soldering is done skillfully.
It appears that the correct height will be just about at the diode to wire solder joint.
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: wolfe10 on February 20, 2025, 07:34:55 am
Post by: wolfe10 on February 20, 2025, 07:34:55 am
Thanks, Mike.
Keep us posted (including the photo gallery) as you proceed).
Keep us posted (including the photo gallery) as you proceed).
Title: Re: Power Line Monitor Is On The Fritz
Post by: Mgreen5228 on February 20, 2025, 11:31:22 pm
Post by: Mgreen5228 on February 20, 2025, 11:31:22 pm
Success! The green LEDs work. The de-soldering was harder than the soldering. I still need to verify the clearance and possibly replace the black tubes the old neon bulbs were in.