Towing a vehicle...

Topic: Towing a vehicle... (Read 1398 times) previous topic - next topic

Towing a vehicle...

July 13, 2010, 10:48:35 pm

We're getting ready to purchase towbars and base plate to tow our Jeep Wrangler. My question to the seasoned travelers is, with a vehicle as light as the Wrangler, is it necessary to also get a braking control for the toad? The Wrangler weighs about 4K lbs. total.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #1 – July 13, 2010, 11:06:17 pm

Bill,

The answer is Yes and No. Many states require that you have supplemental brakes on all towed vehicles. I tried to find a web site for you to look at. I know they exist. So if you only drive in states not requiring supplemental brakes, then the answer is No.

If you are concerned about safety; if you are concerned about being in an accident in a state requiring you to have brakes on your towed vehicle and unwilling to lose it all in a court settlement, then the answer is Yes.

In a panic stop or when you really need to stop quickly, 4,000 pounds pushing on the back of your 1999 U320 will push you a lot further than another 1999 U320 pulling the same Jeep Wrangler with supplemental brakes.

There are many different brands and types of supplemental brake systems on the market. You can get a system that is permanently installed or you can get a system that is put into place before every trip. Just depends on what you want to spend.

My vote is to get and use supplemental brakes on your towed vehicle BEFORE you hook it to the back of the motorhome.

To me, it is a no-brainer. Get supplemental brakes. You will be safer.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #2 – July 13, 2010, 11:07:09 pm

Bill, each state has its own requirements for "trailer towing" and the brakes required to satisfy what each state considers safe and enforceable practice.

The state where I register my vehicles and reside (Ohio) has a web site that I go to for the details of the law. Check your state's regulations for towing safety and I would act accordingly.

I'll say this, it's better to have an auxilliary braking system for your toad than not regardless of your state's regulations.

In most situations when towing a vehicle behind our units, the coach braking systems do quite well for light loads such as a Wrangler. The issue always is that unknown emergency stop going downhill. e.g. Will the tow bar hold up under such extreme stress? How much longer will it take to come to a full stop w/o aux. brakes, etc. you get the idea.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #3 – July 13, 2010, 11:22:44 pm

Found a couple web sites and may be helpfull:
http://www.rvsafely.com/rvroadlaws.htm
http://www.happy-wanderers.com/rv-and-travel/112-auxiliary-brake-laws
http://home.roadrunner.com/~morodat/toad-brakes-by-state.html

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #4 – July 13, 2010, 11:32:06 pm

And here is another one which specifically deals with towing a toad: http://home.roadrunner.com/~morodat/toad-brakes-by-state.html. And at 4000 lbs, I would say that you need supplimental brakes. It is more of a common sense thing than a legal thing.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #5 – July 13, 2010, 11:44:02 pm

If you intend to go to Canada you WILL need toad brakes,,,

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #6 – July 14, 2010, 12:07:19 am

Bill,

I legally reside in Illinois. This web site is incorrect as it applies to Illinois. http://home.roadrunner.com/~morodat/toad-brakes-by-state.html

Check with your home state directly.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #7 – July 14, 2010, 04:28:44 am

Most of the sites that want to sell you brakes are incorrect. unless they come out and say a towed vehicle needs brakes they do not. In Virginia they have a performance standard. It is designed this way not for we motorhome people who are pulling a car but for all the tow trucks out there. They are the ones who pull more vehicles in a year in that state than any motorhome.

Also, I have 7K CCC in the coach after I am fully loaded up with water and fuel and packed. I could put my Jeep wrangler inside.

So, this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. I have FT friends who have had their brake come on and burn up the towed cars brakes. It happened to me the last time i was at MOT this spring. The Wrangler in question was damaged and needed brakes and calipers and rotors and a couple trips back to get it fixed. MOT did not install the air braking system the manufacturer did.

A past international president had his car brakes get toasted too.

Think of the retarder. We have them and it turns on the brake lights. That is one of the requirements for most of the tow brake systems. SO you will be trying to stop your coach on a long down hill with the towed. I know you can set it so it is panic stops only but I can not tell my wrangler is behind my coach. I do have a born free and would never pull a wrangler again without some form of braking system so weight and mass make a huge difference not only of the tow car but the coach as well. I would not want to pull my heavy duty diesel crew cab pickup behind my 34 foot FT without some brake but pulling a 3600 pound Jeep behind my 42 foot coach is not an issue.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #8 – July 14, 2010, 08:54:29 am

Thanks for all the input/advice! Looking at my owners manual, the actual weight of the Wrangler is 3200lbs., while fairly light in car standards, it's still 3200 lbs... with the U320, that still leaves a 6800lbs. towing capacity margin behind a 40K lb. coach.

When we drive in the city and in traffic, I always have the retarder on usually 1 to 3, heavy traffic - 4 to 5. I can't imagine being without it having used it (that should be standard equipment on large coaches). I could see where a brake buddy or some other type assist would be helpful in mountain driving but don't really see the need in most other driving conditions... of course, state laws don't really care what I think anyway...

But not ever having towed a vehicle behind the coach, I wouldn't know what the "feel" in driving is like with it behind me. My previous towing experiences have been with various sized/weight Airstreams where "size" does make a difference... When we finally get the tow equipment on and take a short trip with it, I'll have a better 'feel' for how the coach handles. Seems though, that having a break buddy or something similar, might be helpful to have for when mountain driving is on the agenda...

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #9 – July 14, 2010, 09:01:02 am

Bill,

Different States have different rules, many require aux braking systems over 3000 lbs vehicle weight, check the regulations in the state that you register your MH. Mine is registered in WI, and my Element weighs approx 3200 lbs. I have a 2000 40¹ single slide U-320 (of Course equipped with 6 speed Allison and Retarder).

You can go to this website and see the laws for your state: http://www.readybrake.com/state_laws.html#WI

As you can see, by law I should have ³an aux braking system², And I have chosen to not install one in my Element, because of the good experience I have had with stopping without the system. (Interestingly, this same

Web-site suggest that the Maximum length for a Motorhome in WI is 40¹, I am aware of more than one 42¹ Motorhome registered in the State of WI......

Others on this forum will disagree with my decision, isn¹t America great!!!!!

Of course, your mileage will vary, I am not licensed to practice law in any state, disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer......

Tim Fiedler

Quote

On 7/13/10 9:48 PM, "Bill Jackson"

We¹re getting ready to purchase towbars and base plate to tow our Jeep

Wrangler. My question to the seasoned travelers is, with a vehicle as light as the Wrangler, is it necessary to also get a braking control for the toad?

The Wrangler weighs about 4K lbs. total.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #10 – July 14, 2010, 09:22:05 am

What a can of worms!

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #11 – July 14, 2010, 10:19:49 am

4,000 pounds is heavy, 2,500 pounds is light.

It is your life and your motorhome. Do what you want.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #12 – July 14, 2010, 10:35:17 am

excerpt from british columbia vehicle safety and enforcement branch:

"motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without
brakes hooked up on the towed vehicle, when the towed motor
vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and it's load) is:
-less than 2,000 kilograms (4409 pounds), and
-less than 40 per cent of the gross vehicle weight
rating (gvwr) of the motorhome towing it.
motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2000 kilograms and over
towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device
hooked up."

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #13 – July 16, 2010, 06:53:53 pm

My two cents,

I think the most important decision is which braking system to install.... one that applies your brakes proportionality, easy to use, safe and reliable. I do not have any special interest in this company however; "M.G. Braking" system out of Texas has a great system... www.m-gengineering.com/

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #14 – July 17, 2010, 01:26:21 pm

We totally agree with Gerry. We installed the M-G system about two and a half years ago. Absolutely trouble free, and I believe it's cheaper and much safer than most other braking systems. IMHO

Byron and Linda Betncourt
1991 U280
Buda,TX

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #15 – July 18, 2010, 11:32:12 pm

FWIW, California apparently requires brakes on anything over 1,500 lbs! And I agree that the M-G system is great IF you can install it. It was impossible to fit it on my Dodge with anti-lock brakes.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #16 – July 19, 2010, 07:10:44 am

Quote from: Gerry – July 16, 2010, 06:53:53 pm

My two cents, I think the most important decision is which braking system to install.... one that applies your brakes proportionality, easy to use, safe and reliable. I do not have any special interest in this company however; "M.G. Braking" system out of Texas has a great system... www.m-gengineering.com/

Hadn't heard of these guys - looked up the link (thanks Gerry) and looks like a reasonable system. I like the idea that it's completely integrated vs. placing some device on the floorboard in front of the brake pedal... and the factory is only a few hours from Austin.

Beginning to look like, at least from a potential liability standpoint in some states, that a braking system will be required on the Wrangler... rats! Thanks everybody, for the input.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #17 – July 19, 2010, 10:39:14 am

Quote from: John Cooper – July 18, 2010, 11:32:12 pm

FWIW, California apparently requires brakes on anything over 1,500 lbs! And I agree that the M-G system is great IF you can install it. It was impossible to fit it on my Dodge with anti-lock brakes.

In California, towed motor vehicles are exempt from weight-based brake requirements. Must comply with the performance requirement. The performance requirements are being able to stop 50 ft from 20 mph. See http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26458.htm, Section 26458, (a), (2), (c) (3). "Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454". And the performance section of the law: Section 26454: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26454.htm.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #18 – July 19, 2010, 10:53:08 am

Many people out there are using a simple mechanical system called ReadyBrake. See: http://www.readybrake.com/brake-systems.html. Make sure you watch the ReadyBrake wmv video which shows how the ReadyBrake works. Very simple system which does not have any electronics to go wrong. They also make towbars with the ReadyBrake intregated in the system. It is called the ReadyBrute: http://www.readybrake.com/tow-bars.html.

Re: Towing a vehicle...

Reply #19 – July 19, 2010, 12:27:16 pm

We tow a Wrangler behind our coach, and use aux braking. I've towed it without, and felt very little difference. My main reason is to keep the lawyers somewhat at bay should the unthinkable happen. ALWAYS a personal choice, though, where laws do not apply.

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