2000 U 320 Will Not Start

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2000 U 320 Will Not Start

September 10, 2010, 05:19:59 pm

My friend, Steve Scott, has a 2000 U 320 with Cummins M-11 power. Last time he tried to start, it would not. The stop engine light comes on, then it goes off, and the check engines light comes on, then goes off, stop light on, then off, and on and on. He has three new red top Optimas this week. All charged and reading 13 plus volts. No sounds from the starter at all. Any help??
Thanks,

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #1 – September 10, 2010, 05:40:09 pm

I am certainly no expert on the M11 but no one else has chimed in yet. The simplest reason would be that the ignition lockout switch on the transmission shifter is not disengaging. I am presuming that the transmission is in neutral. Shift in and out of neutral several times and try again.

If that doesn't do it there are probably a dozen or more other reasons that the M11 experts here may be able to help with.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #2 – September 10, 2010, 05:47:07 pm

This could be caused by a number of things, such as defective key switch. I would start by turning on the key switch to the run position, go to rear and see if it can be started from the rear control.

If all fails, you could try with key in run position, brake applied, transmission in Neutral, jump the starter solenoid, this by passes all the above safeties.

Not sure about all the lights going on or cycling or what ever.
Give the rear start a try.
Dave

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #3 – September 10, 2010, 06:25:55 pm

The rear start button does the same. Nothing. Crossing the solenoid, under the bed next to the ATS, gets nothing. All done with key in the on position.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #4 – September 10, 2010, 06:39:29 pm

If it started before the batteries were changed and not after, maybe the battery connections/installation are suspect. Put a voltmeter on the starter and turn the key. See if you still have 12+ volts there. Maybe you have a bad ground somewhere. (Low voltage might cause the computer to give you the funny lights.)

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #5 – September 10, 2010, 06:44:33 pm

Replaced the batteries when one of the three checked bad, and would not start. Same symptoms with both sets of batteries.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #6 – September 10, 2010, 06:49:47 pm

Shifting this over to Tech Talk since some technical folks only subscribe to that board....

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #7 – September 10, 2010, 07:04:08 pm

I have a '97 U320. Looking at the diagram, if you checked the wires from the battery to the starter (+ & -) and they look good, I would look to the "AUX START SOL" to be a possibility. On mine, it is on the drivers side behind the rear wheel with the boost solenoid. The boost sol is the one on the right. Try jumping the "AUX START SOL". If not, see if there is 12VDC on one of the sides of the solenoid. There are two fuses there... check them.

Try this. More to come if that didn't work.

Did the Remote start lights come on when you were trying to start from the back?

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #8 – September 10, 2010, 07:24:43 pm

When mine acted about the same I found the sense wire to the alternator from the remote start panel was grounded. Check there for a loose , grounded, broken wire.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #9 – September 10, 2010, 09:10:10 pm

Main power and ground get to the starter directly from the battery. If those terminals are good, then it is power to the starter solenoid or starter solenoid that is the problem. If you "jump" (a jumper wire goes from the battery lug on the starter (B1) to the solenoid control terminal (B25 RED)) as Dave said, and it turns over, the starter and starter solenoid is good. whew!!

The wire (B25 RED) gets its power from the AUX START SOL. The power wire runs from the starter to the boost solenoid to the isolator and then (B26 RED) down to the AUX START SOL. Putting the boost switch on ensures powere to the AUX START SOL from the house batteries.

If you jump (big lug to big lug) the AUX START SOLenoid, the engine should turn over. If it does, try jumping from the terminal with the wire that is from the isolator (B26 RED) to the control terminal (E9 WHITE). If it doesn't start then it is the AUX START SOL that is bad. If it does, the problem is up the line.

The next item in line is the N/S (Neutral Swith). As Kent said, If it is not in neutral, no go! OOhh the ATEC black box!

Then it gets its power either from the remote starter and the remote starter circuit breaker (#19) or from the ignition switch.

So, except for bad wiring or connections, it could be:

a bad starter

a bad starter solenoid

a bad aux start solenoid

xmsn not in neutral or bad ATEC computer (I know nothing!)

Do the easy stuff first!!

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #10 – September 10, 2010, 09:56:09 pm

Hi Mike,
Thanks to you, and others, for the help. Tomorrow will be busy. Lets hope we have ignition.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #11 – September 10, 2010, 10:11:04 pm

Quote from: Mike Baldacchino – September 10, 2010, 09:10:10 pm

Do the easy stuff first!!

Good advice - I will add that the one time we had starting problems, it was after sitting for a while. After talking with James T., we tried his first suggestion - thump the starter with a rubber mallet. It took Steve a couple of whaps, then worked for us and no problems since. If your friend's coach has been sitting a while, a good thump is certainly a cheap and easy thing to try.

Assuming you haven't already tried this, of course.

Michelle

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #12 – September 10, 2010, 10:27:06 pm

I guess you haven't heard the "Click and Clack" story on this ;o)
___

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
See our blog at LazyDazers.com

Quote

Good advice - I will add that the one time we had starting problems, it was after sitting for a while. After talking with James T., we tried his first suggestion - thump the starter with a rubber mallet. It

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #13 – September 11, 2010, 09:00:56 am

My young friend's old Mercedes-Benz automobile would not start because the starter would not crank the engine. He was concerned when I approached the vehicle with a ball peen hammer. I gently tapped the starter and suggested he try again. After a quick start, he soon acquired his own little hammer.

It's worth a try!

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #14 – September 11, 2010, 09:46:04 am

A heads up on the "hammer fix".

Usually, when a "hammer fix" is a fix, it is because there is corrosion forming on the commutator under the brushes usually from non-use or a high humidity environment. The corrosion forms under the brushes.
When you try to start the engine, the current can't flow, or very little of the current can flow, so, no start.
What the hammer does is move the armature, even a teenie weenie bit and the brush sees clean copper and varoom, you're off and running. Or the brush rubs a little and gets a better contact.

If you are lucky, the odds of sitting on the bad spots (maybe 10 degrees out of 360 degrees circle) or in your favor. Or, after a few more starts, the brushes polished off the corrosion and your problem are gone... for awhile.

If it keeps occurring, an emery clothing of the commutator and a move to a better climate, or starting it more often after cleaning will work, or a new starter (worst case scenario).

Having the DW going back there with a hammer everytime you leave a campground will give our FT's a bad name!

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #15 – September 11, 2010, 11:12:33 am

Quote from: Mike Baldacchino – September 11, 2010, 09:46:04 am

Usually, when a "hammer fix" is a fix, it is because there is corrosion forming on the commutator under the brushes usually from non-use or a high humidity environment.

Yes - I should have included that our starting issue happened in a very damp climate and we were there for several months.

-M

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #16 – September 11, 2010, 01:17:20 pm

I don't know if this trick would work on our coaches because of the computer check before it allows the power to go to the starter, but, on a car (maybe older ones only), if you turn the key on and off quickly, you might get the starter to just move (rock) a little and get to a clean connection. Then you are on your way. The chance of the starter stopping at the same spot (if it were the problem in the first place) that is corroded is slim. Only if you really, really needed to start (or rain and snow) would the odds of it being on THAT spot would increase dramatically.

This would save having to send the DW under the coach in the snow or rain.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #17 – September 11, 2010, 01:27:21 pm

Hi all,
Well it's starting, and running, just fine! Thanks to all for your help. The starter ground wire connection was the culprit. A little cleaning, and all is well. This forum is the best!

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #18 – September 11, 2010, 01:33:30 pm

Loose/corroded connections are the cheapest/easiest things to check/do.

When I taught troubleshooting, if something didn't work, I'd tell them to "Do the easy things first! (Plug it in? Is it turned on?, etc)

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #19 – September 11, 2010, 04:13:58 pm

Each time I am helped or see that someone else has solved a problem on this forum like this I think about the costs of having the same work done at $100 plus an hour. The savings for all of us must be in the millions, thanks guys.

Re: 2000 U 320 Will Not Start

Reply #20 – September 11, 2010, 04:43:32 pm

Hi Gary,
You are so right about our group helping each other. My buddy, Steve Scott, save at least one thousand dollars today. He was ready to remove his starter and have it overhauled. Thanks to all here, I had a great lunch!

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