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Coach Engine Starting Procedures

For many owners, new and seasoned, I thought it would be a good idea to add this topic to the Tech board as many have different requirements based on the amount the coach engine gets used.
 
Jon Twork wrote:
Quote
If your coach batteries are in a lower state of charge, you should see if you are still able to start your generator.  If it starts quickly, great.

If not, use the Boost switch to get the generator started using both battery sets, so that you can charge up the coach batteries.  When it starts, turn the boost switch OFF.

After the generator has been charging for one half hour, turn the boost switch back on so that you are able to also charge the engine battery(s) to a full state of charge.

Depending on the level of charge in the engine battery, charge it for a minimum of 30 minutes along with the coach batteries.

Then, with the generator running and the Boost switch ON, start the big diesel engine.

Allow it to warm up for 5 minutes prior to shutting the boost switch OFF and stopping the generator.

The above procedure will:

Avoid damaging your engine starter due to low voltage and excessive current.

Avoid damaging your engine alternator by overusing and abusing it to charge excessively discharged batteries.

Avoid being stranded someplace without adequate power to start your generator or your engine.

To have redundancy, one should carry a set of jumper cables adequate to charge the engine battery from your towed car (engine running)battery when all else has failed.

1.  Because I do not use the coach for extended periods of time, I always disconnect the coach and starting batteries when in storage longer than one week.  My storage facility is under roof, so solar panels would not be usable to maintain the charge.  I can't plug-in to any shore power, so a Trikle type engine battery charger device would not help either.
2.  When ready to bring the coach out of storage for use I perform the following steps:
3.  Take reading of all battery voltages
4.  Re-connect coach batteries & engine start batteries
5.  Start generator check for ATS swtching time delay, check A/C voltage monitor for voltage delivered by genset and run for 30 minutes.
6.  After a couple of minutes of generator warm-up, turn on boost switch and engine block heater.
7.  Take voltage reading at engine batteries to ensure boost solenoid and cicuitry is working properly noting the difference in voltage when engine batteries were disconnected and with boost applied.
8.  Perform same voltage comparisons as in #7 above for the coach batteries to ensure inverter/chargers is performing as designed.
9. During the 30 minute engine block heating and battery charging period, I also perform other coach inspections such as smoke detectors, refrigerator gas/electric operation, water pump performance, etc. to make use of the time I use to pre-heat/charge the engine & batteries.
10. After the 30 minute period, with genset running, engine block heater engaged and boost switch engaged, begin the engine start procedure.  This method saves engine starter life by not forcing the starter to crank at low engine battery voltage.
11. Once engine starts, then I disengage the engine block heater, set to fast idle for about 5 minuts with genset running, boost engaged.  After this 5 minute period the alternator should not have to be forced to charge a low voltage engine & coach battery bank(s).
12. If I am hooked to shore power when camping, then I just use the 120 volt supply from the camp site, not the generator to warm up the engine block.  I test the engine cranking batteries for voltage and engage the boost if needed prior to engaging the starter.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #1 –
Why do you turn on the block heater?  I'm assuming the outside temp is not very cold. 
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George Hatfield

  Never ever use World Line Motors of Nacogdoches for service!

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #2 –
I would like to see you disconnect my start batteries. I have to either jack it up or lift it all the way and slide under. There is no door on my 42 footer to open like I had on my last three coaches. On the newer ones the batteries for the house are hidden too. 

I stored mine outside and used solar panels now it is inside and i  plug it in and use Trickle Start charger and every 3 weeks I go flip the boost for a night.

2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #3 –
George, I always use the engine block heater when the engine is stone cold (has not been used long enough to be at ambient temps).  As the oil has had enough time to totally drain to the sump, the internal engine components are dry and anything I can do to increase the oil's ability to flow helps bring the oil pressure up faster.  If I need to start the engine in 20 degrees or less I'll allow the block heater to stay on for an hour or more before attempting a start.  It may not be necessary, but after the ignition cycle is started, the "Wait to Start" light goes off in less than 5 seconds using less of a drain on the start batteries.  Also, running the generator without much of a load is not recommended, and using the 120v to pre-heat the oil is not such a waste.
 
John, the U270 with the Cummins 325 mechanical engine came with only 2 starting batteries.  There's lots of room in mine.  Also there are no solid circuit electronics to keep cranking the engine before oil pressure is up.  You may look into having a battery disconnect installed in the engine bay for your start batteries (you have 3?).  You may need to do more research on your coach to find out how many other electronics run off the engine batteries before using this option.  I believe the more modern and sophisticated coaches like the U320's etc. may have many more features than the simpler U270's.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #4 –
Yes, I have three batteries and I have direct wired them to the starter. I have a pretty big parasitic load on them too. I just adapt and it is fine. I had a 99 U270 and it had two start batteries and started like a champ.  I know that my 99 had preheat but the ISM I have does not. It is not hard to start though even in the winter after I had cummins do the upgrade on my ECM a year ago. I had my last 320 done as well. Made a huge difference in starting.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #5 –
john,
You said you flip the boost on every 3 wks.  What's the reason for not having it on more frequently - or leaving it on continuously - assuming one is plugged in to adequate shore power?
Thanks,
Mike
2003 u-295

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #6 –
It will wear out eventually and you don't need it on all the time. I carry a spare with me but the trlckle start works for the most part to keep the voltage up.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #7 –
Peter,

I was reading your thread about your cold start up procedure.  I have a 98 U270 and have had some difficulty starting in cold weather sub 30 to 35 degrees recently.  I live in Portland Oregon, keep the coach in a enclosed non heated garage always plugged in when in storage.  Recently I could not get the coach to turn over on a 35 degree day,  really not that cold.  I had run my boost for 48 hours before.  On the first attempt I seemed like it had plenty of crank but did not fire.  Not the boost switch was on when I attempted to start the coach.  Tried again and could tell my batts were beginning to fade.  I aborted trying to start again and resumed my trickle charge with the boost switch on for anther 24 hours. 

Do all 97 and 98 U270's have block heaters.  I never noticed any kind of plug coming off the motor.  I will try starting the generator first next time and follow your start instructions.  Mabye my batteries are just down on cranking amps when that cold.  Never had this problem before..Any advice? 

Chris Reiter
98 U270

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #8 –
Is there a preheat switch at the foot of the bed?  That's where mine is in both a 1997 U295 and 1999 U320


best, paul

Quote

Do all 97 and 98 U270's have block heaters.  I never noticed any kind of plug coming off the motor.
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #9 –

Quote
Do all 97 and 98 U270's have block heaters

If you find the preheat switch that Paul mentioned and it doesn't illuminate when turned on, lift up the bed and look into the engine compartment. There is an a/c outlet that the block heater plugs into on the driver side of the forward wall not far from the isolator.

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Chris –
Peter,

...  Recently I could not get the coach to turn over on a 35 degree day,  really not that cold.  ...

I recently tried to start our 1997 U295 C8.3 in cold weather without using the block heater. I think it was about 24F. The engine would not even turn over. It just went "Ugh!" one time. I have two new Optima Red Top starting batteries. Our house batteries are pretty good. The coach had been plugged to shore power and all batteries were up. In spite of all that, the engine would not turn.

We have been traveling in cold weather for a couple of weeks. Since that episode, I turn on the block heater the night before we plan to drive. I have had no problem starting in temperatures to about 5F. The block heater makes a BIG difference.

According to the specification sheet at beamalarm.com for the 1998 U270, the engine is a Cummins ISC 8.3 350 with a block heater. On my coach, I can lift the bed and see that the block heater is plugged into a 120VAC outlet in the corner of the engine compartment nearest the driver's position. The switch to activate the outlet is near the floor on the foot of the pedestal for the bed. I expect your equipment is similar.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #11 –
We are leaving our coach in storage in the Tampa area starting this weekend and will be back mid March to continual our trip North. Quick trip home and then to Chicago for Sue's first granddaughter.

Have 2 75w solar panels on the roof and a Trik-L-Start installed. But was thinking about disconnecting the start batteries. Have new covers. Will do all the usual things including battery switch off and solar foam sheets covering  the inside windshield.

Should I lower the air bags or just let them bleed off by them self?

Any other suggestions?

Dick  '99 U320

Dick & Sue
'99 U320, 36'
2015 F150 4x4 Supercrew
M & G with brakeaway system
Blue Ox Avail 10,000# tow bar
Grosse Ile, Mi.

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Dick Okopny –
We are leaving our coach in storage in the Tampa area starting this weekend and will be back mid March to continual our trip North. Quick trip home and then to Chicago for Sue's first granddaughter.

Have 2 75w solar panels on the roof and a Trik-L-Start installed. But was thinking about disconnecting the start batteries. Have new covers. Will do all the usual things including battery switch off and solar foam sheets covering  the inside windshield.

Should I lower the air bags or just let them bleed off by them self?

Any other suggestions?

Dick  '99 U320




Are you going to winterize or run a heater when you leave it?  You could get freezing weather over the winter.  If so, then just disconnect the start battery and then reconnect and start it up.  I would start the genset first so you have the battery charger running before you start the engine to save the alternator and to give youa backup incase it does not start.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #13 –
John, thanks for the info.

We are not planing on "winterizing" her. That's one of the reason in leaving her down here in Florida. The other reason was last Feb, we drove back to Mich. Dodged a lot of bad weather. Ice storms in Atlantic, snow in the Ohio valley and a very cold and icy night in a Flying J in northern Ohio. 

The storage lot is a RV/Mobil Park in Riverview, Fl. We have a friend who winters there and will keep an eye on her.
Will have the heaters set up and all the extension cords read to plug in. We should be close to a power outlet.

Hopefully we are through the cold weather here.

I was planing to doing the rest of your suggestions.

dick
Dick & Sue
'99 U320, 36'
2015 F150 4x4 Supercrew
M & G with brakeaway system
Blue Ox Avail 10,000# tow bar
Grosse Ile, Mi.

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #14 –
Thanks folks for the information. I will look for the engine block heater switch near the foot end of the bed. Now that you mention this I believe I have seen this.  I completely forgot about it. Thanks again....  Happy New Year!

Chris

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Chris –
Thanks folks for the information. I will look for the engine block heater switch near the foot end of the bed. Now that you mention this I believe I have seen this.  I completely forgot about it. Thanks again....  Happy New Year!

Chris
Chris,
If you have 120VAC power at your storage location, you do not need to run the generator to get the 120VAC needed for the block heater.  And, yes...the mechanical Cummins of our vintage seem to not like the cold...neither do I.    :))
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #16 –
John,
now that I'm awake, my brain is starting to work. Actually my wife suggested, "just start the gen & Aquahot to keep the bus/bay warm". duh!

So we'll walk Dave through the starting procedure.

thanks again, dick

ps we stayed at the Flanklin lock on our way down and the Ortona lock when we headed to Largo. Sue's dad lives in Clewiston.
Dick & Sue
'99 U320, 36'
2015 F150 4x4 Supercrew
M & G with brakeaway system
Blue Ox Avail 10,000# tow bar
Grosse Ile, Mi.
 

Re: Coach Engine Starting Procedures

Reply #17 –
We get used to instant starts in the summer but often have to crank much longer in winter to get the big diesels to light. Longer cranking time can mean high temps and resulting lower voltage in the terminals and cables. I melted a battery terminal starting in sub-freezing temps at high altitude. After that experience, I not only check ALL the battery terminals before winter but occasionally go back and put my hand on all six terminals to see if any show signs of heating after the engine has cranked for a while but has started. Never a bad idea to pull them and clean both sides once a year. Cold weather starts always require more out of each part of the starting system, batteries to the starter and any extra resistance means slower starter RPM. Sort of like a pickup truck with low back tires. You may not notice they are low until you put that heavy load in back to go to the dump.

Pierce & Gaylie
93' U300/36
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)