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Topic: Prestone Extended Life Coolant (Read 1685 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #25 –
Hi all,
  On the Final Charge web page they say it meets the Cummins 14603 spec.
  Thanks to everyone for the help.
  One gallon 50/50 is $10.99 at Pep Boys

Raymond
Raymond & Babette Jordan
1997 U 320
1998 Ford Explorer XLT

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Raymond Jordan –
Hi all,
  On the Final Charge web page they say it meets the Cummins 14603 spec.
  Thanks to everyone for the help.
  One gallon 50/50 is $10.99 at Pep Boys

Raymond

If you are changing coolant, I would recommend against the premix.  You will have gallons of water that you can not reasonably drain out of the lines to the water heater and dash heater as well as those two devices.  After the final flush with distilled water, add the proper quantity of full strength coolant to make 1/2 of cooling system capacity and top off with distilled water.  That way, you WILL have a 50/50 mixture.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #27 –
Hi Brett,
  Thanks for the info. I just was reading an older post, from you, advising against the 50/50 mix. You answered my question before I could ask!
  Thanks again,

Raymond
Raymond & Babette Jordan
1997 U 320
1998 Ford Explorer XLT

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #28 –
Brett, I unhooked the heater hose at the block, hooked up my air hose set for 10 psi and blew the lines clean, it was 1 and a half gallons in the system.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #29 –
Bill,

Many systems with both motor aid water heaters and dash heater have quite a lot more volume. 

The exact amount in the hoses and "auxiliary components" is not published.  As an example, a 40' coach has 8 more feet of hose than a comparably equipped 36'.

Much safer to determine total capacity and add half that amount a coolant concentrate and just add (who cares how much) distilled water to top it up.

Also, a lot easier to get all the air out of the cooling system than artificially injecting one plus gallons of air.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Peter & Beth –
Can I use the Prestone Extended Life Coolant made for auto & light trucks (on label) to fill the overflow tank at a 50-50 mix ratio?  I do not use any extended life coolant.  The coolant in there now is the Prestone regular stuff (I think, can't be sure as the local Cummins dealer has been replacing every two years for the past 6 years).
 
The label indicates it is silicate, phosphate, borate and nitrate free.
Prestone has an extensive line of engine coolants but most MH owners will find the list intimidating.
Antifreeze / Coolant | Products | Prestone®
You do have to know what coolant is suitable for your diesel engine. Of the  Prestone products suitable for a diesel engine you have  Prestone Heavy Duty formulated with Pencool SCA additives.  Another choice in the Prestone line is Prestone Heavy Duty Extended Life.  The main product in Prestone to stay away from for your diesel engine is anything oriented to Light Duty, Dexcool, or Long Life concentrate or premix.  When considering these coolants, they must conform to ASTM D6210.  If the ASTM standard, D3306 is the only spec, it is a light duty automotive coolant unsuitable for a diesel engine.
Gary Spires
Coolants, Cooling Systems, Filtration, Diesel Engines

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Peter & Beth –
Another related question.  I understand that when switching to extended life coolant, the system is not considered extended life until a second replacement of the coolant.  If this is true, then what is the typical procedure?
 
a.  Perform the first change to extended life coolant, run system for a short while, say a month, then flush the second time, or,
 
b.  Perform the first change to extended life coolant, run system for 2 years, then flush the second time.
 
I say in b. above as regular coolant is good for 2 years anyway, so why waste 2 years' use of coolant?
 
Anyone have input, or is there some secret coolant manufacturer marketing code I don't understand?
In the engine coolant business extended life as a term has certainly been perverted by some company's marketing people.  With the advent of the first OAT coolant, Texaco Extended Life Coolant with Nitrite, their marketing talk was that you needed their specific technology to achieve long life from the coolant.  Some bought that story.  Others questioned that as there was ample evidence in the HD trucking business that conventional coolants were never changed through out the life of the truck. 

What is it that gives coolant a specific lifespan?  The real story on coolant life has to do with changes that happen to coolant that cause it to be unsuitable for continued use.  No company's inhibitor technology can over come the following:  oil in the coolant, pH degrading over time, coolants with ammonia odor, coolants that have a strong non-coolant odor.  All of these can be attributed to operational issues in the engine.  An engine has an oil cooler failure releasing small amounts of lubricating oil into the coolant.  While there may not be much showing in the surge tank or radiator top tank, small amounts of coolant adversely affect the performance of the SCA to protect the liners and parent bore cylinder walls (non-liner engine) against cavitation pitting process.  Oil coats the surface and the SCA cannot continue to protect.  The coolant can be new but still be over as to useful life because of this issue.  Coolants naturally degrade with time and mostly heat to lower and lower pH levels.  Eventually you get to the change threshold.  No SCA or OAT inhibitor can stop it but can prolong the inevitable.  Conventional coolants (non-OAT) are  much better at prolonging this problem than OAT.  It is a long story in chemistry why that is so. 

The real story on OAT coolants like the original Texaco ELC, CAT ELC, Shell Rotella ELC (all generation 1 OAT) and the latest OAT technology (nitrite-free) is that they are extended service interval coolants.  There are several conventional coolants that fall into the category of extended service.  They too suffer the same "life limiting" issues as OAT.  When the OAT coolants call for an extender to be added at some point or a conventional coolant calls for additions of SCA at oil change intervals they are both talking about maintenance of the chemistry, not longer operating life of the coolant.
Gary Spires
Coolants, Cooling Systems, Filtration, Diesel Engines

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #32 –
Thanks to this great thread I'm going to switch to Final Charge (NOT premix - thanks Brett). 
Per Barry and my manual it looks like my cooling system (U320 with ISM11) capacity is 16 gallons.  As I read it this is the total including heater loop etc. 
Some questions:
    • Flushing:  How many times should I drain and refill with distilled water before going for the final fill?
    • Method:  Any words of wisdom on getting a good drain?
    • Maintenance:  What is the process for maintaining the coolant long term?  Don Hay, did MOT have a suggestion of what to do in the future now that you have converted to Final Charge?  Bill, what are your plans?
    • Gary, you had a great description of the long term issue but I didn't figure out what to do down stream with Final Charge.
Thanks a bunch folks for all the great information.
Audrey & Harvey Nelson
2000 U-320, 40' towing 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
nelsonah@ieee.org

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #33 –
Harvey asked: " Don Hay, did MOT have a suggestion of what to do in the future now that you have converted to Final Charge?"

I can't remember the exact length of time, but I think in 3 years I am supposed to add an extender, which will keep it going for another 3 years.

I will check with them, as my coach is there right now for a new fridge.
Don Hay
'92 Grandvilla, U-280
The Hayfever Express
Build #4055
'97 GEO Tracker
Life is like licking honey off a thorn.

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Harvey Nelson –
Thanks to this great thread I'm going to switch to Final Charge (NOT premix - thanks Brett). 
Per Barry and my manual it looks like my cooling system (U320 with ISM11) capacity is 16 gallons.  As I read it this is the total including heater loop etc. 
Some questions:
    • Flushing:  How many times should I drain and refill with distilled water before going for the final fill?
    • Method:  Any words of wisdom on getting a good drain?
    • Maintenance:  What is the process for maintaining the coolant long term?  Don Hay, did MOT have a suggestion of what to do in the future now that you have converted to Final Charge?  Bill, what are your plans?
    • Gary, you had a great description of the long term issue but I didn't figure out what to do down stream with Final Charge.
Thanks a bunch folks for all the great information.

When you use Final Charge Concentrate and mix it with an equal volume of water you may be surprised when you read the freeze point.  Conventional coolants (not OAT) and the original Texaco/Shell ELC OAT coolants would yield a premixed freezepoint of -34F +/-.  Final Charge contains a very high level of organic acid inhibitors such that it will skew the freeze point when you check it with a hydrometer.  Since most who read this will only use a cheap plastic floating indicator hydrometer, your freeze point readings could be wildly off.  In my job, I use a refractometer which is very accurate.  I would not expect that you would spend $130 for one of these.  Typical reading for a refractometer on Final Charge premixed is around -40F.  In reality, it is closer to -34F.

As to flushing to convert to Final Charge, there is no need for repeated water flushes. One water flush is sufficient. Final Charge is not that much different from the conventional coolant you have now.

Maintaining Final Charge is simple.  There is no strip testing that you can use that will tell you if you are protected or not.  Be SURE to always refill low coolant levels with Final Charge and you will be just fine.  After three years, add one quart of their extender liquid for each 12 gallons of coolant capacity.  If you find that you need more than one quart but not two, use the whole two quarts.  You cannot hurt the system with that extender liquid.

One last thought on Final Charge is that while it is marketed as a 6 year life coolant unless something major happens to the coolant it will be able to run longer.  The KEY to it is keeping that coolant in the system and not diluting it with other coolants or chemistries.  That way, you can rest knowing you are covered.  Final Charge has been shown to meet the Caterpillar and Cummins engineering standards for coolant in their respective engines.
Gary Spires
Coolants, Cooling Systems, Filtration, Diesel Engines
 

Re: Prestone Extended Life Coolant

Reply #35 –
Gary,
Thank you for the very thoughtful and complete response.
It is very much appreciated.
Audrey & Harvey Nelson
2000 U-320, 40' towing 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
nelsonah@ieee.org