1987 grand villa

Topic: 1987 grand villa (Read 2217 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #25 – June 05, 2012, 11:24:21 am

^ Gotcha. I should be able to tell more when I look at it tonight. Thanks.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #26 – June 05, 2012, 01:05:37 pm

I am not a diesel mechanic, so this may be not accurate. Most NA (non turbo) diesel engines are made to a different spec than the turbo diesel engines. It is not just a matter of bolting on a turbo and then you are even. I understand the bearings, rods, pistons, etc are different on many NA (naturally aspirated) diesels vs turbo diesels. What this does is put considerably more stress on the engines when you turbo them (which shortens their life). If you get a diesel upgrade and spend the money, time and effort in this pursuit, it seems that you would probably be happier with a diesel from the get go. I would either stay with the gas engine and live with its faults or look for another motorhome with the diesel that would make you smile from day one. The diesels are out there and believe you will find one for not much more than you are at with the cost of the one you are now viewing. Good luck either way

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #27 – June 05, 2012, 01:36:12 pm

^ Thank you for the information. I really don't know about the specs of the motors. It is something I will have to research. I've heard you can blow up a motor with turbo boost, especially if the boost is cranked up and even more so on a motor with some wear on it. If we do buy this motorhome, it won't because I'm planning on a motor swap but it does seem like a neat idea. If I found a good deal on a motor after we get our place built, it might be kind of fun to do.

I've seen SOBs diesels within our price range but usually it's a coach with a less than stellar reputation for build quality. I haven't ruled that possibility out, but right now I'd like to get something that was built right, built to last, well maintained and won't nickle and dime us to death as it starts to fall apart from age. I'm not really buying it for travel, but it would be nice to have a diesel. I would like to travel more in future.

Financing is at the heart of the problem. Our credit union will loan on older rigs, but only to NADA's average retail value. We have some cash to put down on a rig but I don't want to do it. I want to save that money for our building project. The land is paid for and our goal is to not take out a loan against it. I'd rather finance a motorhome than owe on our land, if that makes any sense.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #28 – June 05, 2012, 02:17:22 pm

Quote from: drcscruggs – June 05, 2012, 01:05:37 pm

I am not a diesel mechanic, so this may be not accurate. Most NA (non turbo) diesel engines are made to a different spec than the turbo diesel engines. It is not just a matter of bolting on a turbo and then you are even. I understand the bearings, rods, pistons, etc are different on many NA (naturally aspirated) diesels vs turbo diesels. What this does is put considerably more stress on the engines when you turbo them (which shortens their life). If you get a diesel upgrade and spend the money, time and effort in this pursuit, it seems that you would probably be happier with a diesel from the get go. I would either stay with the gas engine and live with its faults or look for another motorhome with the diesel that would make you smile from day one. The diesels are out there and believe you will find one for not much more than you are at with the cost of the one you are now viewing. Good luck either way

Charles,

You are quite correct as many do have different pistons, rods, etc. I can think of a couple that, with a small increase in HP, start to have a lot of head gasket issues. Others are very close to their turbo counterparts and re-manufacturers like Dealers Diesel install heavy duty parts to make them as reliable as the factory turbo units. The stock Fords diesels do come with spray nozzles to cool the hollow dome pistons. Another reason not to idle any diesel for any length of time as idle oil pressure, especially in a worn engine, may not be enough to keep the oil stream into the pistons strong enough to keep them cool and retain proper dimensions in warm weather.

When we installed turbos on the non-turbo Mercedes, we kept the boost pressure down to about 7 lbs compared to the factory 12 lbs. We never had any reliability issues in a single conversion. We would also add fuel through re-calibration of the injection pump, but not enough to smoke like a lot of chipped PUs you see on the road.

If you could find a deal on a $3K or so gas Foretravel and are good at DIY, it might be worth the effort but as you say, there are a lot of good, very reasonable diesel models on the market now.

Just read the last post. Difficulty in financing any older motorhome really keeps the price down. Yes, look for the deals and "cash is king" now and will be for a long time as I see it.

Pierce

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #29 – June 05, 2012, 07:59:53 pm

Restless,

Not sure where you are in the US, as you did not list a location city in either your profile or signiture. But there are 3 older Grand Villas in Ft. Worth as of last Thur. One is a diesel, 93 on Craigslist with a Cat. that has been listed for at least 4 months.
Link: 36ft Foretravel Diesel pusher

There are two that I think in my quick glance are maybe gas units. One might be a 34', the other 36'? Saw them at 65 mph from the highway. RV World, 5213 Airport Freeway Fort Worth, TX 76117
(817) 831-2526, might be worth a call. Units are sometimes consignment sales.

Plus 2 more Grand Villas on Craiglist, both under $20,000. All 1990 or newer.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #30 – June 06, 2012, 01:02:54 am

Thank you, Dave (or Dolly). I'm in Western Montana. My apologies for the lack of signature and profile. I'm still in lurker mode, apparently. I have noticed Texas seems to be Foretravel central. I will investigate further, thank you very much for the leads.

It was absolutely pouring rain, but we looked at the rig this evening. It was meticulously kept. I do believe this owner is more detail oriented than I am. I found very little wrong with it.

Roof: Looked almost brand new. Seams recently sealed -- very neat job.

Exterior: Faded and cracked decals and surface rust on some of the screw heads.

Engine compartment and undercarriage: It's seeping oil at the valve cover gaskets and transmission pan -- no oil on the ground though. It looks like it might be due for new hoses/belts. Almost no rust -- looks like a desert rig underneath.

Interior: Every cabinet drawer and door works and opens and closes smoothly. The interior was very clean with very little wear. Even the window coverings were in good condition. There was just one place on the ceiling where the edge of the vinyl had come loose.

Test drive: Ample power -- really. I'm sure I'd have to gear down on any kind of real uphill grade, but I caught myself speeding in a 45 zone twice and it didn't have to work hard to get to and maintain 65 on the freeway (low rolling hills).

Overall I'd say it's in exceptional condition. I was impressed. I certainly didn't expect it to be this nice. It was used seasonly up to and including last year. He did his own maintenance and it appears he was quite meticulous. He was an engineer and restored classic cars on the side. The motor has an RV cam, newer carb and Banks exhaust. They claim around 7 MPG without a toad and 5 MPG or a little less towing a 7000lb boat. That mileage was after the engine work. They said it was worse before.

It does need new tires.

Questions:

Front end shake: On the test drive at highway speed when I'd hit a rough patch in the road, I'd feel a shimmy under the front end -- it would self correct almost immediately. It wouldn't jerk the steering wheel but it might change direction just a bit -- like the tires were catching a rut -- it'd do that too. It wasn't scary, but I didn't feel comfortable taking a hand off the steering wheel.

Brake pedal pressure: Is it normal to experience an occasion "push back" from the brake pedal? It wouldn't affect braking, but the pedal would push back against my foot pressure at times.

I really liked it and I think my wife loved it. It did not look at all like a 25 year old coach, not at all.

Bob, in all the excitement (and the rain) I forgot to look to see which way the fan rotated but it looked like a standard automotive fan.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #31 – June 06, 2012, 01:24:07 am

Quote from: restless – June 06, 2012, 01:02:54 am

It was absolutely pouring rain, but we looked at the rig this evening. It was meticulously kept. I do believe this owner is more detail oriented than I am. I found very little wrong with it.

Sounds like a good one. Coach has a backup electric power system for the power brakes. Low pressure somewhere in the system would cause the backup system to come on and kick the pedal. Ignition on motor not running I think you get the kickback if you hit the pedal hard. Wow amazing my brain still works. I was a product geek. Is the roof shiny or dull versus the sides?

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #32 – June 06, 2012, 01:33:42 am

^ Thanks for the info, Bob. Low pressure in the system then. Hmmm...

The roof appeared shiny compared to the sides, but it was pouring down rain so I cannot say for certain.

Dave (or Dolly), I did find those craigslist ads. Those rigs do look good from the pics. I especially like the one you linked. Interesting -- one guy thinks his engine is an, "Oskosk."

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #33 – June 06, 2012, 07:42:53 am

My 89 OREG (460 ford) was much more fatiguing to drive because of the "wander" - large dead spot in the center of the wheel, plus some of the "shake" you described. not dangerous, just a lot more "engaged" all the time while driving. You might want to get someone to look at the front end parts for wear, not very many parts available for these chassis, but may not be any issues, but good to know.

as I recall, ceiling was foam glued to roof and then vinyl glued to that foam. Mine came down totally, and I seem to recall gluing it back up. You can search the forum for discussions on the roof, many of which may date back to the "old" yahoo forum posts.

5-7 MPH is about right, so at $4.per gallon, figure .70 -.80 cents a mile just for gas.

tires are available, suggest retreads for rear (check casing dates) and nice new steer tires up front. you shouldn't be going fast enough or heavy enough in this rig to overheat the rears, and retreads will save you some $$. UPS runs them all the time, as do many other over the road companies. I sold and had good luck with the bandag process. get a tire quote before you make your buying decision.

check refrigerator operation (cooling coils rust out, if refrigerator is original, may need a new one at any time, or a cooling unit exchange, both a few $$). also check battery condition/age, those big house batteries also can make a dent in the savings account.

heat is the engine enemy of these rigs. have a good mechanic check belt condition and idler alignment on the belts. Always carry a spare belt, if you lose the belts, you will loose cooling, and power steering immediately, engine will overheat in a minute or two and must be stopped. good thing is you will know because your steering will get so hard. if you start eating belts, it is the idler out of alignment or gone bad

I blew up my 460 driving consistently above 65MPH. Plan on 55 - 60 MPH and not to be in a hurry. it is an old rig, underpowered, and heat can and will build up. Banks adds HP which adds more heat to the equation. If it is diesel - AWESOME! had I been more mechanically inclined when my motor blew up, I would have converted to a diesel myself and still have that coach 89 ORE), it was great!

good luck, take your time here, the coach isn't going to be snapped up in the next day out from under you, do your investigation.
you will love your vintage foretravel if you realize that it is old and a few things will break and need some $$ to fix. Good thing is, the quality is high, and these are a little simpler coach than the more current rigs. most of the manufacturers of the components are still around to support the rig, including FOT! Good Luck. Unless this is a $4-5K coach and one that you will not put a ton of miles on, you might consider a trip to TX and spending a few more $$ for a slightly newer diesel coach. let us know how this all turns out.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #34 – June 06, 2012, 11:41:43 am

The shiny roof means it was replaced from the original. Which is good.

The steering box is a spicer and can have its "spool" recentered and the box remounted on the frame. 3 hour job for a truck shop. Normal for most older any brand chassis. Used the ask the customers if they could drive any deisel pusher from the bottom of the steering wheel? If not fix the box. Old coaches came with a chassis manual and the steering box service steps were in it.

Plus any tie rod end wear of course. Probably the ends. If it still darts and wanders then the box is not centered. Every brand needed the same service/adjustment. I had a lot of thank you's for that fix.

Bob

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #35 – June 06, 2012, 11:51:26 am

Thanks again, Bob. That's very good to know. They did have all the manuals that came with it. It wandered just a bit. It would catch ruts on occasion and it had the aforementioned shimmy after a road surface irregularity.

BigBailey, I seemed to have hijacked your thread. I apologize.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #36 – June 06, 2012, 11:58:53 am

Quote from: restless – June 06, 2012, 11:51:26 am

Thanks again, Bob. That's very good to know. They did have all the manuals that came with it. It wandered just a bit. It would catch ruts on occasion and it had the aforementioned shimmy after a road surface irregularity.

BigBailey, I seemed to have hijacked your thread. I apologize.

All the oshkoshes and gilligs had the 510 box

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #37 – June 06, 2012, 01:53:05 pm

^ Thank you.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #38 – June 08, 2012, 03:17:43 pm

Just an update: We couldn't agree on a price so we did not get this coach. It was very well kept, however. I believe it would have been a good coach for us. Thank you all so much for all your help.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #39 – June 08, 2012, 05:35:25 pm

Restless, Keep looking one will turn up when you least expect it. I lusted after the 85 ORED I once had but there was no chance the owner was going to sell in my lifetime.... THEN... he caught his wife in a shall we say a compromising position. He thought it best to get rid of the FT quickly rather than letting her have it. Life is funny that way.
Gary B

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #40 – June 08, 2012, 10:00:34 pm

Thank you for the encouragement.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #41 – June 09, 2012, 09:20:08 am

FWIW,
You will find another. I missed one as it was very favorably priced (somebody scooped me on it) continued looking and found mine. I would have saved some money with the first, but frankly like the second one a lot. Hard to say more since I did not get the first one. I think I do though. There are some great deals out there in this economy. This may be one of the better times to buy one.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #42 – June 09, 2012, 04:04:13 pm

There are newer diesel Foretravels out there in your price range but you may have to make a couple of trips out of state to find the one you want. I made two trips from Dallas to Florida recently in my search. The first trip was to see a 1991 U300 40' with a 6V92TA that turned out to be in poor condition. I probably could have bought it very inexpensively but it looked like too much work so I went home empty handed that time. The second trip was to see a 1991 U300 36' with a 6V92TA that was in beautiful condition with low mileage so I bought it for $19,000 cash and drove it back to TX. I've had it for several weeks now and I've taken it to Stewart & Stevenson, the Detroit Diesel / Allison service center here in Dallas. They gave it a clean bill of health except for the airbags which need to be changed and a tiny pinhole leak in the radiator which leaks about a gallon every 1000 miles. I will get both of these things repaired as soon as my finances allow, but I can still use the coach in the meantime... So basically don't settle for a coach you don't really want because it's a buyers market out there.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #43 – June 09, 2012, 08:09:58 pm

Bars leak is your friend and approved by FT. Try that first.

Re: 1987 grand villa

Reply #44 – June 14, 2012, 12:01:56 pm

Restless, take a look at this one 1995 Foretravel U240 36' Motorhomes of Texas. We saw it last week and it looked very good. It isn't the right coach for us, but it may fit you. Steward said it could be purchased for less than asking price. I know Nacogdoches is a long way from Montana, but it might be worth the trip, especially if you come back with a coach. Just be aware that your summer temperatures are what they consider a really cold winter.

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